Guest
Where could I ask for info on a misbehaving sewing machine? The sewing newsgroups are near dead and lacking this sort of info, and it's not an electronic problem
cheers
NT
cheers
NT
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:52:34 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
The various sewing machine manuals often have timing adjustment
instructions which include troubleshooting. A maker and model number
would be helpful:
Sewing machine repair:
<http://www.sewusa.com/Sewing_Machine_Repair.htm>
Sears:
<http://www.searspartsdirect.com/sewing-machine-repair.html>
Brother:
<http://www.brothersewing.co.uk/en_GB/fixing-common-sewing-machine-problems>
Various video:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sewing+machine+repair>
If you're fixing an industrial sewing machine, the procedures and
tolerances are quite different. Whatever you do, get the manual on
the machine, even if you have to beat up on the manufactory. I ended
up with a Brother machine which was not on their support web pile. An
email got me a scanned manual.
<http://support.brother.com/g/b/productseries.aspx?c=us&lang=en&content=ml&pcatid=36>
Drivel: I fished this machine out of a dumpster:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kenmore-sewing-machine.jpg>
This one came from a flea market for about $15:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/slides/White-1510-sewing-machine.html>
Both are my "practice" machines.
So, what are you working on and what is it doing wrong?
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
The various sewing machine manuals often have timing adjustment
instructions which include troubleshooting. A maker and model number
would be helpful:
Sewing machine repair:
<http://www.sewusa.com/Sewing_Machine_Repair.htm>
Sears:
<http://www.searspartsdirect.com/sewing-machine-repair.html>
Brother:
<http://www.brothersewing.co.uk/en_GB/fixing-common-sewing-machine-problems>
Various video:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sewing+machine+repair>
If you're fixing an industrial sewing machine, the procedures and
tolerances are quite different. Whatever you do, get the manual on
the machine, even if you have to beat up on the manufactory. I ended
up with a Brother machine which was not on their support web pile. An
email got me a scanned manual.
<http://support.brother.com/g/b/productseries.aspx?c=us&lang=en&content=ml&pcatid=36>
Drivel: I fished this machine out of a dumpster:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Kenmore-sewing-machine.jpg>
This one came from a flea market for about $15:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/PCB-Layout/slides/White-1510-sewing-machine.html>
Both are my "practice" machines.
So, what are you working on and what is it doing wrong?
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 05:20:03 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I've got manuals for both, but they don't touch repairs at all. They're both domestic machines.
Bernina 121, 1944-54 and overly basic. Top tensioner refused to grip the thread at all. I got it to do so by removing a washer as a temporary measure - that's not how it should be, but there we go. Now when the thread lifting arm goes up it doesn't quite pull the thread up far enough to get it fully out of the bobbin area, and snarlup quickly follows. It's not a valuable machine, I won't be getting parts for it but it ought to be something fairly straightforward. I've set the bobbin & top tensions. I suspect the top tension release mechanism is stuck. I'll take another look but didn't say any ready access to that area of internals.
Bernina 530-2 circa 1960. A nice high quality machine with a range of decorative stitches & lots of accessories. 2 problems. Applying power & operating the control results in current flow but no movement. The machine turns but is rather stiff - I suspect the motor's just stalled. I'll oil the whole thing & see if that sorts it. The other problem is the decorative stitch selector won't move at all. Another lever also wouldn't move but a bit of persistence & persuasion got it to. I suspect all round oiling may be the solution, will know later.
I've gotten tired of googling only to find idiot advice like 'have you put the thread in the right end,' 'don't forget to set the bobbin tension' and 'ooh you need to take it to a dealer' type stuff.
NT
I've got manuals for both, but they don't touch repairs at all. They're both domestic machines.
Bernina 121, 1944-54 and overly basic. Top tensioner refused to grip the thread at all. I got it to do so by removing a washer as a temporary measure - that's not how it should be, but there we go. Now when the thread lifting arm goes up it doesn't quite pull the thread up far enough to get it fully out of the bobbin area, and snarlup quickly follows. It's not a valuable machine, I won't be getting parts for it but it ought to be something fairly straightforward. I've set the bobbin & top tensions. I suspect the top tension release mechanism is stuck. I'll take another look but didn't say any ready access to that area of internals.
Bernina 530-2 circa 1960. A nice high quality machine with a range of decorative stitches & lots of accessories. 2 problems. Applying power & operating the control results in current flow but no movement. The machine turns but is rather stiff - I suspect the motor's just stalled. I'll oil the whole thing & see if that sorts it. The other problem is the decorative stitch selector won't move at all. Another lever also wouldn't move but a bit of persistence & persuasion got it to. I suspect all round oiling may be the solution, will know later.
I've gotten tired of googling only to find idiot advice like 'have you put the thread in the right end,' 'don't forget to set the bobbin tension' and 'ooh you need to take it to a dealer' type stuff.
NT
M
Mike Coon
Guest
In article <ce3e7991-3607-46aa-a717-e3f8b4e4761e@googlegroups.com>,
tabbypurr@gmail.com says...
I inherited my mother's old machine that had not been used for years.
The zig-zag adjustment had stuck and I could not get at the bearing to
free it up. Success with sticking the whole machine in front of a
domestic fan heater until it was nicely warmed up!
Mike.
tabbypurr@gmail.com says...
I inherited my mother's old machine that had not been used for years.
The zig-zag adjustment had stuck and I could not get at the bearing to
free it up. Success with sticking the whole machine in front of a
domestic fan heater until it was nicely warmed up!
Mike.
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 10:27:25 UTC+1, Mike Coon wrote:
I like that. Once I've got them oiled I can try the oven at 40C - I think it goes that low. Cheers. I do now suspect both of them are suffering the same seizure problem, just of different bits of the mechanism. I know almost nothing of their history post-purchase, but the 530-2 with the stuck selector does have a repair tag from 1977 saying stuck stitch selector.
NT
I like that. Once I've got them oiled I can try the oven at 40C - I think it goes that low. Cheers. I do now suspect both of them are suffering the same seizure problem, just of different bits of the mechanism. I know almost nothing of their history post-purchase, but the 530-2 with the stuck selector does have a repair tag from 1977 saying stuck stitch selector.
NT
P
pfjw@aol.com
Guest
Most common (as in many made) machines have service manuals on-line. But there are two (2) keys to sewing machines that 99-44/100% of their owners (especially guys) do not understand:
a) Lubrication: Sewing machines used to be sold with a can of oil for a reason. To prevent wear - especially on critical cams and cam-followers - they must be checked and lubricated about every 30-40 hours of use *at least*. Oils are better today and if one uses a high-tack PTFE-impregnated oil, that time may be extended to perhaps 60 hours. OR, every 60 days if not used often, or before each use if stored for long periods. WALK the machine through its movements by hand first before applying power.
b) Cleaning: Lots of flakes and fluff is generated by sewing - so a can of dust-off is your best friend - again, something not available back in the day.
If you have worn down a cam or cam-follower, short of replacement you will have problems. On thread-tensioners, there is often (or was at one point) a felt washer to maintain a gentle pressure on the thread that has some give to it. Look to see if that washer is missing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bernina+121+exploded+diagram&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjksMLT7ZLVAhXBJiYKHULLABEQsAQIJw&biw=1366&bih=662
Is a source for an exploded diagram for your earlier machine. Do a search on the second - model number followed by "Exploded Diagram", and you will get the next one as well.
I do the maintenance for my wife's machine. It 'purrs like a kitten', despite its advanced age.
Best of luck with it!
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
a) Lubrication: Sewing machines used to be sold with a can of oil for a reason. To prevent wear - especially on critical cams and cam-followers - they must be checked and lubricated about every 30-40 hours of use *at least*. Oils are better today and if one uses a high-tack PTFE-impregnated oil, that time may be extended to perhaps 60 hours. OR, every 60 days if not used often, or before each use if stored for long periods. WALK the machine through its movements by hand first before applying power.
b) Cleaning: Lots of flakes and fluff is generated by sewing - so a can of dust-off is your best friend - again, something not available back in the day.
If you have worn down a cam or cam-follower, short of replacement you will have problems. On thread-tensioners, there is often (or was at one point) a felt washer to maintain a gentle pressure on the thread that has some give to it. Look to see if that washer is missing.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bernina+121+exploded+diagram&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjksMLT7ZLVAhXBJiYKHULLABEQsAQIJw&biw=1366&bih=662
Is a source for an exploded diagram for your earlier machine. Do a search on the second - model number followed by "Exploded Diagram", and you will get the next one as well.
I do the maintenance for my wife's machine. It 'purrs like a kitten', despite its advanced age.
Best of luck with it!
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 13:45:12 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:
I've had the chance to clean & oil them. The 530-2 now sews, but 3 adjusters are still jammed, and the whole mechanism is much stiffer than it ought to be, though not as bad as it was.
The 121 I'll try a new needle with. I didn't think of that. A look at the mechanism reveals there is no upper thread tension release mechanism, it's just fixed tension. So I'm a bit puzzled why a washer needed removing to get that to work, or why the washer was there in the first place. I am only a bit wiser there.
I didn't think of exploding them. I googled but no such diagrams for either machine found.
I've been contemplating putting ammonia into the seized bits to cut through the oxidised/polymerised oil, not sure if that would be a good idea or not.. The seized mechanicals are all steel.
NT
I've had the chance to clean & oil them. The 530-2 now sews, but 3 adjusters are still jammed, and the whole mechanism is much stiffer than it ought to be, though not as bad as it was.
The 121 I'll try a new needle with. I didn't think of that. A look at the mechanism reveals there is no upper thread tension release mechanism, it's just fixed tension. So I'm a bit puzzled why a washer needed removing to get that to work, or why the washer was there in the first place. I am only a bit wiser there.
I didn't think of exploding them. I googled but no such diagrams for either machine found.
I've been contemplating putting ammonia into the seized bits to cut through the oxidised/polymerised oil, not sure if that would be a good idea or not.. The seized mechanicals are all steel.
NT
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:01:37 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
The Bernina 121 similar to the 125, which adds zig-zag but is the same
as far as thread tensioning. It was also sold as a Husqvarna Zig-Zag.
This should be useful:
<https://www.occaphot-ch.com/bernina-oldie-modelle/bernina-modelle-kl-125-121-1950er/>
I don't know exactly what's wrong, but you have the right idea. Take
it apart, clean everything, reassemble, lubricate, and adjust the
tension. I don't see how you can successfully adjust the top thread
tension, and then claim that it doesn't grip the thread at all. If
you've removed washers, you probably took it apart and cleaned it, so
I'll assume the center shaft was clean. I normally do not oil the
tension disks, so if they've been oiled, that might be the problem.
If the machine has been infrequently used, is dirty or dusty, or was
lubricated with 3-in-1 oil, you might consider cleaning with solvent
and some new oil.
Incidentally, that may not be a "valuable" machine, but it might be
quite useful. Such all-metal machines are prized for sewing leather
and heavy canvas.
The stuck stitch selector knob is an important clue that the machine
needs cleaning and lubrication. Take the belt off and try to turn it
by hand, but don't force it. If it's stiff, then you get to clean out
the gum with some solvent and lubricate from scratch. If it moves
freely, look at the motor. If you see blobs of oily lint, sticky goo,
or rust on the shafts around the moving parts, there's the problem.
Too much oil is just as bad as not enough. Same with using the wrong
type of oil. You want oil that doesn't evaporate and maintains a
fairly constant viscosity over temperature.
<http://www.makeit-loveit.com/2012/09/how-to-cleanoil-your-sewing-machine.html>
I would go easy on "oil the whole thing" and try to isolate the cause
of the drag. Adding more oil to a dirty or dusty machine just creates
more sticky goo.
If you specific advice for your specific problem, it's really helpful
if you would supply specifics. A photo of the guts is very useful as
many problems can be visually seen. Some history of the machine is
always helpful.
I'll spare you the rest of the lecture.
I'm out of time. Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
The Bernina 121 similar to the 125, which adds zig-zag but is the same
as far as thread tensioning. It was also sold as a Husqvarna Zig-Zag.
This should be useful:
<https://www.occaphot-ch.com/bernina-oldie-modelle/bernina-modelle-kl-125-121-1950er/>
I don't know exactly what's wrong, but you have the right idea. Take
it apart, clean everything, reassemble, lubricate, and adjust the
tension. I don't see how you can successfully adjust the top thread
tension, and then claim that it doesn't grip the thread at all. If
you've removed washers, you probably took it apart and cleaned it, so
I'll assume the center shaft was clean. I normally do not oil the
tension disks, so if they've been oiled, that might be the problem.
If the machine has been infrequently used, is dirty or dusty, or was
lubricated with 3-in-1 oil, you might consider cleaning with solvent
and some new oil.
Incidentally, that may not be a "valuable" machine, but it might be
quite useful. Such all-metal machines are prized for sewing leather
and heavy canvas.
The stuck stitch selector knob is an important clue that the machine
needs cleaning and lubrication. Take the belt off and try to turn it
by hand, but don't force it. If it's stiff, then you get to clean out
the gum with some solvent and lubricate from scratch. If it moves
freely, look at the motor. If you see blobs of oily lint, sticky goo,
or rust on the shafts around the moving parts, there's the problem.
Too much oil is just as bad as not enough. Same with using the wrong
type of oil. You want oil that doesn't evaporate and maintains a
fairly constant viscosity over temperature.
<http://www.makeit-loveit.com/2012/09/how-to-cleanoil-your-sewing-machine.html>
I would go easy on "oil the whole thing" and try to isolate the cause
of the drag. Adding more oil to a dirty or dusty machine just creates
more sticky goo.
If you specific advice for your specific problem, it's really helpful
if you would supply specifics. A photo of the guts is very useful as
many problems can be visually seen. Some history of the machine is
always helpful.
I'll spare you the rest of the lecture.
I'm out of time. Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Guest
On Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:52:34 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
far lubrication problems were the major cause of machine malfunctions.
Dried up lube, the wrong lube, lube that had started to polymerize,
contaminated lube, etc. Lube problems can cause adjustments to move
because of increased friction. After lube problems was debris. Dust
from thread and the fabrics being sewn gets everywhere and clogs stuff
up. So give the machines a good cleaning and lubing first and then see
if more work needs to be done.
Eric
Years and years ago I used to maintain industrial sewing machines. By
far lubrication problems were the major cause of machine malfunctions.
Dried up lube, the wrong lube, lube that had started to polymerize,
contaminated lube, etc. Lube problems can cause adjustments to move
because of increased friction. After lube problems was debris. Dust
from thread and the fabrics being sewn gets everywhere and clogs stuff
up. So give the machines a good cleaning and lubing first and then see
if more work needs to be done.
Eric
J
John Robertson
Guest
On 2017/07/18 9:35 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Hate to ask (I can see an oil thread looming (sorry)) but what do you
recommend for oil? I figure a non-detergent 20w oil is good for most
small mechanical machines lube points, and have tried synthetic oils on
tiny motors (CD spin motors) with good success. I have to assume there
is no ideal oil though.
Have you a preferred link for an online page that gives a good
description of oils and what jobs they are best for?
WD-40 is, of course, of little use when something is seized and there
are far better and cheaper solutions than WD for that problem. The best
appearing to be old style ATF fluid and acetone.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Home-made-penetrating-oil/
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/off-topic/5498-using-50-50-mixture-atf-acetone-stuck-engines-has-worked-some.html
Thanks,
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Hi Jeff,
Hate to ask (I can see an oil thread looming (sorry)) but what do you
recommend for oil? I figure a non-detergent 20w oil is good for most
small mechanical machines lube points, and have tried synthetic oils on
tiny motors (CD spin motors) with good success. I have to assume there
is no ideal oil though.
Have you a preferred link for an online page that gives a good
description of oils and what jobs they are best for?
WD-40 is, of course, of little use when something is seized and there
are far better and cheaper solutions than WD for that problem. The best
appearing to be old style ATF fluid and acetone.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Home-made-penetrating-oil/
http://www.greentractortalk.com/forums/off-topic/5498-using-50-50-mixture-atf-acetone-stuck-engines-has-worked-some.html
Thanks,
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 17:49:08 UTC+1, et...@whidbey.com wrote:
Thanks - I'm convinced that's the entire problem with the 530-2. It probably hasn't been lubed in decades. What do you reckon I should use to remove hardened oil from within parts? The only chemicals I'm thinking that could attack this effectively are ammonia & bleach, but am hesitant to use those without knowing if it's ok to.
NT
Thanks - I'm convinced that's the entire problem with the 530-2. It probably hasn't been lubed in decades. What do you reckon I should use to remove hardened oil from within parts? The only chemicals I'm thinking that could attack this effectively are ammonia & bleach, but am hesitant to use those without knowing if it's ok to.
NT
P
pfjw@aol.com
Guest
GRUMP!!!!
OK, this is 2017. What this means is that there are lubricants and solvents out there that are beyond the wildest dreams of those machine designers.
First, invest in some KROIL - this to saturate everything in preparation for a massive cleaning. Kroil will loosen skunge and penetrate bearings so that you do not gall anything by moving it by force. Kroil is meant as a penetrating oil, NOT as a lubricant, restorative nor anything else than what it is designed to do.
Then, when clean and re-assembled:
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-evpnwp29/products/95/images/329/SuperLube_Oil__21128.1439340805.500.500.jpg?c=2
Where oil is required. Cams & cam-followers and such.
http://www.backflowpreventer.com/media/ecom/prodlg/SuperLube.jpg
Where grease is required - gears, open shaft bearings (on the shaft and in the bearing prior to reassembly) and such.
Ancient oil & grease formula polymerized with heat and pressure. Modern synthetics will not. That puts you way ahead of the game moving forward. And the specific materials cited have a very high film strength and do not attract dust as much as non-synthetics.
Sewing needles have a 'sense', Typically the haft is D shaped. Make sure that the flat side is in the correct orientation, or you will break/bend it every time.
Remember, you are undoing years and years of neglect. If you work on the theory that I use - every machine needs a certain amount of maintenance over its life. And the real time required increases in geometric but inversely related to the timeliness of that maintenance. So, you have a number of hours ahead of you before everything will be 'right'.
I expect that the persnickety level of maintenance required is why new machines get sold despite the vast number of vintage ones out there.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
OK, this is 2017. What this means is that there are lubricants and solvents out there that are beyond the wildest dreams of those machine designers.
First, invest in some KROIL - this to saturate everything in preparation for a massive cleaning. Kroil will loosen skunge and penetrate bearings so that you do not gall anything by moving it by force. Kroil is meant as a penetrating oil, NOT as a lubricant, restorative nor anything else than what it is designed to do.
Then, when clean and re-assembled:
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-evpnwp29/products/95/images/329/SuperLube_Oil__21128.1439340805.500.500.jpg?c=2
Where oil is required. Cams & cam-followers and such.
http://www.backflowpreventer.com/media/ecom/prodlg/SuperLube.jpg
Where grease is required - gears, open shaft bearings (on the shaft and in the bearing prior to reassembly) and such.
Ancient oil & grease formula polymerized with heat and pressure. Modern synthetics will not. That puts you way ahead of the game moving forward. And the specific materials cited have a very high film strength and do not attract dust as much as non-synthetics.
Sewing needles have a 'sense', Typically the haft is D shaped. Make sure that the flat side is in the correct orientation, or you will break/bend it every time.
Remember, you are undoing years and years of neglect. If you work on the theory that I use - every machine needs a certain amount of maintenance over its life. And the real time required increases in geometric but inversely related to the timeliness of that maintenance. So, you have a number of hours ahead of you before everything will be 'right'.
I expect that the persnickety level of maintenance required is why new machines get sold despite the vast number of vintage ones out there.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:28:21 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
>Hi Jeff,
Not high enough.
First, a little background and drivel. My father owned a women's wear
(mostly lingerie) factory in Smog Angeles. I got plenty of experience
building, fixing, and adjusting industrial sewing machines and making
attachments. Then, I discovered electronics and largely abandoned
sewing machinery. Lately, I've become rather bored with electronics,
computing, and some of my other activities, and though it might be
interesting to do sewing machine repairs on the side. Big mistake,
but I won't bore you with the problems I created. Meanwhile, I've
collected a small collection of older machines, most of which are
being slowly repaired and sold. Not the best credentials but perhaps
good enough for the basics.
Oil for sewing machines, microscopes, guns, and clocks all have two
requirements that must be met. The oil should not evaporate and
should remain at a constant viscosity over the working temperature
range. That's because these devices rely on residual friction of the
lubricant to control the movement of mating parts. Changes in this
friction will result in undesirable changes in timing and adjustment.
Big industrial sewing machines solve the gum and evaporation problems
by using an oil sump and splash lubrication. It won't turn to gum
because additional oil just washes away the gum. It can evaporate,
but with so much oil in the sump, it's unlikely to ever be run without
oil. Too bad it makes such a big mess. I've also never seen an oil
sump on a home type sewing machine.
Another way is to do it like an automobile engine, and pump oil down
an oil gallery into mating surfaces via holes in the bushings. That
works, but is too complicated, expensive, and messy for a home
machine.
So, what's left? Felt oil pads is what most home machine use. That
works, but requires much better oil than the previous 2 methods of
lubrication. That is why you don't use engine oil, WD40, penetrating
oil, or home brew in a sewing machine. None of these oils are
constant viscosity or even close to the viscosity specified by the
sewing machine design. Even clock oil is marginal, because clocks are
not designed to handle the rotational speeds and reciprocating
pounding found in sewing machines.
So, what works? Ummm... sewing machine oil perhaps? They're largely
all the same stuff different in viscosity for different manufacturers.
<https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricants/product-series/mobil-velocite-sm-series>
Ok, so you're not going to buy it by the gallon, but the specs are the
same as what you get with retail overpriced sewing machine oil.
No, but I'll see if I can find something. I doubt if anyone can get
all the various types of lubricants on a single web page. In general,
the lube selection pages of the major oil companies do better than the
specialty oil formulation pages. For example start here:
<https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial>
I'll see if I can find some more links later.
We had this discussion in some newsgroup recently. The consensus
among those that tried acetone and ATF as a penetrating oil varied
radically from it works great, to it sucks. Several people discovered
that there are different types of ATF, one of which wouldn't even mix
properly with acetone. I'll see if I can find the thread.
Please note that penetrating oil is not a lubricant.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
>Hi Jeff,
Not high enough.
First, a little background and drivel. My father owned a women's wear
(mostly lingerie) factory in Smog Angeles. I got plenty of experience
building, fixing, and adjusting industrial sewing machines and making
attachments. Then, I discovered electronics and largely abandoned
sewing machinery. Lately, I've become rather bored with electronics,
computing, and some of my other activities, and though it might be
interesting to do sewing machine repairs on the side. Big mistake,
but I won't bore you with the problems I created. Meanwhile, I've
collected a small collection of older machines, most of which are
being slowly repaired and sold. Not the best credentials but perhaps
good enough for the basics.
Oil for sewing machines, microscopes, guns, and clocks all have two
requirements that must be met. The oil should not evaporate and
should remain at a constant viscosity over the working temperature
range. That's because these devices rely on residual friction of the
lubricant to control the movement of mating parts. Changes in this
friction will result in undesirable changes in timing and adjustment.
Big industrial sewing machines solve the gum and evaporation problems
by using an oil sump and splash lubrication. It won't turn to gum
because additional oil just washes away the gum. It can evaporate,
but with so much oil in the sump, it's unlikely to ever be run without
oil. Too bad it makes such a big mess. I've also never seen an oil
sump on a home type sewing machine.
Another way is to do it like an automobile engine, and pump oil down
an oil gallery into mating surfaces via holes in the bushings. That
works, but is too complicated, expensive, and messy for a home
machine.
So, what's left? Felt oil pads is what most home machine use. That
works, but requires much better oil than the previous 2 methods of
lubrication. That is why you don't use engine oil, WD40, penetrating
oil, or home brew in a sewing machine. None of these oils are
constant viscosity or even close to the viscosity specified by the
sewing machine design. Even clock oil is marginal, because clocks are
not designed to handle the rotational speeds and reciprocating
pounding found in sewing machines.
So, what works? Ummm... sewing machine oil perhaps? They're largely
all the same stuff different in viscosity for different manufacturers.
<https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial/lubricants/product-series/mobil-velocite-sm-series>
Ok, so you're not going to buy it by the gallon, but the specs are the
same as what you get with retail overpriced sewing machine oil.
No, but I'll see if I can find something. I doubt if anyone can get
all the various types of lubricants on a single web page. In general,
the lube selection pages of the major oil companies do better than the
specialty oil formulation pages. For example start here:
<https://www.mobil.com/en/industrial>
I'll see if I can find some more links later.
We had this discussion in some newsgroup recently. The consensus
among those that tried acetone and ATF as a penetrating oil varied
radically from it works great, to it sucks. Several people discovered
that there are different types of ATF, one of which wouldn't even mix
properly with acetone. I'll see if I can find the thread.
Please note that penetrating oil is not a lubricant.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 17:35:26 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The 125 is worth something, the 121 I doubt it. I don't plan to keep it, I've got far more capable machines. If I can get it going without hassle it'll bring in double what I paid for the pair & be useful to someone. It's the 530-2 I'm willing to spend more time on.
interesting, but that's all
the lack of thread tension puzzled me. It works just fine with one washer removed, so it's a low priority issue.
Yes... question is which solvent. White spirit? Paraffin/kerosene? I've got those. Also have ammonia & bleach if they'd attack the crud without causing damage.
Ten a penny I think.
I've not psoted pics because I don't believe they'd be in any way helpful. The mechanism is quite dense. Looking at the thing IRL it's hard enough to see what's going on with moving one's vision at all sorts of angles, I can't see a photo being comprehensible. I'll see what I can get tomorrow but I doubt it'll give much away.
History is unknown, I got them at a clearance for peanuts. The lubrication disaster tells me they've either not been used in a long time, or had no care taken of them at all.
NT
The 125 is worth something, the 121 I doubt it. I don't plan to keep it, I've got far more capable machines. If I can get it going without hassle it'll bring in double what I paid for the pair & be useful to someone. It's the 530-2 I'm willing to spend more time on.
interesting, but that's all
the lack of thread tension puzzled me. It works just fine with one washer removed, so it's a low priority issue.
Yes... question is which solvent. White spirit? Paraffin/kerosene? I've got those. Also have ammonia & bleach if they'd attack the crud without causing damage.
Ten a penny I think.
I've not psoted pics because I don't believe they'd be in any way helpful. The mechanism is quite dense. Looking at the thing IRL it's hard enough to see what's going on with moving one's vision at all sorts of angles, I can't see a photo being comprehensible. I'll see what I can get tomorrow but I doubt it'll give much away.
History is unknown, I got them at a clearance for peanuts. The lubrication disaster tells me they've either not been used in a long time, or had no care taken of them at all.
NT
Guest
On Tuesday, 18 July 2017 18:53:34 UTC+1, pf...@aol.com wrote:
I see you like to spend
I use baby oil on sewing machines, it's a light petroleum derived clear oil with a trace of perfume. Whether babies were harmed in it's making remains to be seen.
These machines don't have any felt pads, oil just hangs around in the moving parts by surface tension. They're certainly not high speed mechanisms, they're overengineered to be just about bombproof.
The 530-2 runs stiffly but it runs & sews now. But frequently the mechanism stiffens a good bit & motor speed drops right down. Hopefully paraffin will help. There are also still key parts that remain stuck. 15 minutes in the oven at 50C freed up 3 controls, but 2 remain well stuck so far. Paraffin is next.
NT
I see you like to spend
I use baby oil on sewing machines, it's a light petroleum derived clear oil with a trace of perfume. Whether babies were harmed in it's making remains to be seen.These machines don't have any felt pads, oil just hangs around in the moving parts by surface tension. They're certainly not high speed mechanisms, they're overengineered to be just about bombproof.
The 530-2 runs stiffly but it runs & sews now. But frequently the mechanism stiffens a good bit & motor speed drops right down. Hopefully paraffin will help. There are also still key parts that remain stuck. 15 minutes in the oven at 50C freed up 3 controls, but 2 remain well stuck so far. Paraffin is next.
NT
J
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:48:05 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
You're hard to please.
It may have been disassembled and then put back together incorrectly.
Oh, that's easy. Anything that will dissolve the original sewing
machine oil. Even if it's dried out or turned to goo, it's still the
same oil, which can be dissolved by anything from paint thinner to
kerosene. I wouldn't go any higher up the chlorinated hydrocarbon
tree because those tend to dull or eat plastic parts. I tend to favor
kerosene (lamp oil) for loosening up machine parts. If I'm lazy, I
just dump some more sewing machine oil on the part, which will
dissolve the gum, but not the stuff that has hardened. As little
scraping with a piece of wood or plastic (not metal) will expedite
things.
What's the story behind using ammonia and bleach? I've never heard of
that concoction.
The reason I want a photo is because I've seen a few Frankenstein
monsters assembled from parts from different machines. I've also
spent an inordinate amount of time digging out information on what
turned out to be the wrong model number. Trust, but verify.
Thanks for the details. Some of mine were left outside in the rain.
Rust everywhere. I think you have the right approach. Clean, lube,
adjust, and try again.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
You're hard to please.
It may have been disassembled and then put back together incorrectly.
Oh, that's easy. Anything that will dissolve the original sewing
machine oil. Even if it's dried out or turned to goo, it's still the
same oil, which can be dissolved by anything from paint thinner to
kerosene. I wouldn't go any higher up the chlorinated hydrocarbon
tree because those tend to dull or eat plastic parts. I tend to favor
kerosene (lamp oil) for loosening up machine parts. If I'm lazy, I
just dump some more sewing machine oil on the part, which will
dissolve the gum, but not the stuff that has hardened. As little
scraping with a piece of wood or plastic (not metal) will expedite
things.
What's the story behind using ammonia and bleach? I've never heard of
that concoction.
The reason I want a photo is because I've seen a few Frankenstein
monsters assembled from parts from different machines. I've also
spent an inordinate amount of time digging out information on what
turned out to be the wrong model number. Trust, but verify.
Thanks for the details. Some of mine were left outside in the rain.
Rust everywhere. I think you have the right approach. Clean, lube,
adjust, and try again.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
C
Charlie+
Guest
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:48:05 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote as
underneath :
snip
the petroleum oils originally used. C+
underneath :
snip
I would try naptha (lighter fluid) first as that will be compatible with
the petroleum oils originally used. C+
Guest
On Wednesday, 19 July 2017 07:21:53 UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
If there's anything online about actual repairs to Berninas I've not found it.
Probably so. I'll recheck the central split threaded rod for blockage. I reckon I know how to sort it now.
Kerosene it is. Scraping is mostly not viable, taking the whole mechanism apart is not on the to do list, only 2 bits have scrape access.
Either can tackle congealed oil. Ammonia is the more effective & antisocial. Don't mix them.
Yup. Will get some pics. Cheers.
NT
If there's anything online about actual repairs to Berninas I've not found it.Probably so. I'll recheck the central split threaded rod for blockage. I reckon I know how to sort it now.
Kerosene it is. Scraping is mostly not viable, taking the whole mechanism apart is not on the to do list, only 2 bits have scrape access.
Either can tackle congealed oil. Ammonia is the more effective & antisocial. Don't mix them.
Yup. Will get some pics. Cheers.
NT
Guest
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:38:34 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:
Oil". It's the stuff made for oil burning lamps and candles. I get the
unscented stuff. I like it better than kerosene mainly because it
doesn't smell bad. It doesn't dissolve hardened oil as fast as other
solvents but then it doesn't tend to harm things either. Sometimes all
you need is for the hardened oil to be flushed from the mechanism.
Then there is this soft goo that oozes from bearings and the like.
This goo can be removed by whatever is most convenient. After the lamp
oil has started to flush the old oil out just follow with new oil.
After you are sure the new oil has flushed out the lamp oil wipe up
any excess oil that has run out of the bearing surfaces.
Eric
For jobs like yours I like to use kerosene. Actually, I use "Lamp
Oil". It's the stuff made for oil burning lamps and candles. I get the
unscented stuff. I like it better than kerosene mainly because it
doesn't smell bad. It doesn't dissolve hardened oil as fast as other
solvents but then it doesn't tend to harm things either. Sometimes all
you need is for the hardened oil to be flushed from the mechanism.
Then there is this soft goo that oozes from bearings and the like.
This goo can be removed by whatever is most convenient. After the lamp
oil has started to flush the old oil out just follow with new oil.
After you are sure the new oil has flushed out the lamp oil wipe up
any excess oil that has run out of the bearing surfaces.
Eric
D
Dave Platt
Guest
In article <isttmcdkrdk264ik2rth309veu1grabtbt@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Ammonia is alkaline enough to saponify oils, at least to some extent.
I doubt it would dissolve the gum as well as a light petroleum solvent
would, but one might use it as a final cleaner to remove all traces of
the old (dissolved) lubricant before re-lubricating.
I don't think that chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) would be a
good choice. It also is alkaline and might saponify the oils but the
free chlorine could attack all sorts of things in the equipment,
including the service technician.
Ammonia and bleach as a "concoction" is one of those things that the
labels on both products warn you quite sternly NOT to do. When mixed,
these chemicals react to create chloramine gas (a mixture of NH2Cl and
NHCl2), which is a severe respiratory irritant.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199909093411115#t=article
Unless you're fond of recreational edema and emergency tracheostomy,
I'd avoid this "concoction" as if it were poison
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
Ammonia is alkaline enough to saponify oils, at least to some extent.
I doubt it would dissolve the gum as well as a light petroleum solvent
would, but one might use it as a final cleaner to remove all traces of
the old (dissolved) lubricant before re-lubricating.
I don't think that chlorine bleach (sodium hypochlorite) would be a
good choice. It also is alkaline and might saponify the oils but the
free chlorine could attack all sorts of things in the equipment,
including the service technician.
Ammonia and bleach as a "concoction" is one of those things that the
labels on both products warn you quite sternly NOT to do. When mixed,
these chemicals react to create chloramine gas (a mixture of NH2Cl and
NHCl2), which is a severe respiratory irritant.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199909093411115#t=article
Unless you're fond of recreational edema and emergency tracheostomy,
I'd avoid this "concoction" as if it were poison