OT: replacement PC fan, UK

[Roger Hamlett]

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:6qa160tq3lc0b3mpandiitmv66mfmucopv@4ax.com...

On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:59:45 +1100, the renowned "Henry Mydlarz"
henspammyd@optushome.com.au> wrote:

I've found that the majority of fans, even the bigger ones in machines
such
as Automatic Tellers, have NO ball bearings, but rather bushings. These
tend
to seize up, which explains their high failure rate. I found that as far
as
PCs, even the fans advertised as "ball bearings" may have only bushings.
It
never ceased to amaze me why an expensive piece of equipment such as an
ATM,
or even a processor, uses an el-cheapo fan which is prone to breakdown.
The
trouble with a seized up bushing is that the fan does not die, but rather
gets super hot, adding to the overheating problem of the
processor/device.

Henry

The difference in purchase price between the two types of fans is only
a dime or two. Sad.
It is a common misconception that ballbearing fans are 'better'. The highest

MTBF fans I have ever seen, used sleeve bearings!. The commonest 'killer' of
fans, is dust. Even a small amount, can result in an imbalance, that quite
quickly kills either type of fan (if you want long life, you filter the
air...). The biggest affect on 'life', is the quality of either type. Good
quality fans, cost more than the typical price for an entire PC power
supply....

Best Wishes

 

[rstlne]

"Roger Hamlett" <rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Q%18c.280$z_6.130@newsfe1-win...

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:6qa160tq3lc0b3mpandiitmv66mfmucopv@4ax.com...
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:59:45 +1100, the renowned "Henry Mydlarz"
henspammyd@optushome.com.au> wrote:

I've found that the majority of fans, even the bigger ones in machines
such
as Automatic Tellers, have NO ball bearings, but rather bushings. These
tend
to seize up, which explains their high failure rate. I found that as
far
as
PCs, even the fans advertised as "ball bearings" may have only
bushings.
It
never ceased to amaze me why an expensive piece of equipment such as an
ATM,
or even a processor, uses an el-cheapo fan which is prone to breakdown.
The
trouble with a seized up bushing is that the fan does not die, but
rather
gets super hot, adding to the overheating problem of the
processor/device.

Henry

The difference in purchase price between the two types of fans is only
a dime or two. Sad.
It is a common misconception that ballbearing fans are 'better'. The
highest
MTBF fans I have ever seen, used sleeve bearings!. The commonest 'killer'
of
fans, is dust. Even a small amount, can result in an imbalance, that quite
quickly kills either type of fan (if you want long life, you filter the
air...). The biggest affect on 'life', is the quality of either type. Good
quality fans, cost more than the typical price for an entire PC power
supply....

Best Wishes

The one I posted use something called a .. umm what is it.. shotgun bearing?
...
It's less life than ball bearings but not as quit as sleeve

 

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:30:18 -0000, the renowned "Roger Hamlett"
<rogerspamignored@ttelmah.demon.co.uk> wrote:

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:6qa160tq3lc0b3mpandiitmv66mfmucopv@4ax.com...

The difference in purchase price between the two types of fans is only
a dime or two. Sad.
It is a common misconception that ballbearing fans are 'better'. The highest
MTBF fans I have ever seen, used sleeve bearings!. The commonest 'killer' of
fans, is dust. Even a small amount, can result in an imbalance, that quite
quickly kills either type of fan (if you want long life, you filter the
air...). The biggest affect on 'life', is the quality of either type. Good
quality fans, cost more than the typical price for an entire PC power
supply....

The ones I was comparing had a 5:1 difference in manufacturer's
claimed MTBF between ball and sleeve bearings, and very little
difference in price. The bearings are about the only thing that gives
problems on modern brushless DC fans. Of course if the ball bearings
were not sealed then the claimed life might not actually be typical in
real PC operating conditions.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:52:50 +0000, Terry Pinnell
<terrypin@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

My case fan is noisy again (bearings plainly failing). Anyone here
bought a replacement online from a UK supplier and can recommend
please? I'm assuming they come in limited standard sizes. This
measures 80cm between fitting points (not screws, 2-part plastic
push-in thingies).

Otherwise I'll start going through the catalogues, but a shortcut
would be appreciated please.
Actually mine also stopped a few days ago (yes stopped), it started

making strange noises, and then stopped.
There are 3 other fans in this PC, so some airflow kept it alive, but
although all supply voltages are monitored, the CPU fan is monitored,
one other fan is monitored, NO alarm and auto shutdown!
So anyways I took the fan out.
I have some grease for the car (comes in big tubes), opened the fan,
(remove label, peel it of), remove little round plactic cover, remove
plastic ring (it is cut), and pull out the rotating part with the
magnets.
Cleaned the bearings with a cuetip (black stuff came out, likely
burned grease).
Some new grease in it, reverse procedure, and running fine now for a
week.
I always though these bearings were self lubricating, but there was
some grease in it, that is why I put some new.
Was afraid this low rpm grease would not work, but so far OK.
Better would be to use a fan with tacho and connect that to the mobo.
JP

 

[Costas Vlachos]

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:hpc16058qfldsqt443t8qbm5a08jp8prfr@4ax.com...

The ones I was comparing had a 5:1 difference in manufacturer's
claimed MTBF between ball and sleeve bearings, and very little
difference in price. The bearings are about the only thing that gives
problems on modern brushless DC fans. Of course if the ball bearings
were not sealed then the claimed life might not actually be typical in
real PC operating conditions.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

A problem with ball bearings is that they are generally noisier than sleeve
bearings. A good alternative is the so called "fluid" bearing system used in
Panasonic's PanaFlo fans and in some of the Papst models. My main PC has
been running 24/7 for years using these fans with no problems at all. OTOH,
my other PC's CPU fan died recently, and this was a ball-bearing but really
cheap "no name" fan... No free lunch - you get what you pay for, as with
most things.

cheers,
Costas

 

[Chaos Master]

Terry Pinnell says in da message <mtj06015l48q6n3j3g4fsvc5gdmqr8v69d@4ax.com> in
da phuck'n group sci.electronics.repair:

BTW, do people actually buy fans decorated with LEDs? Why? And how do
they see the LEDs if the fan is mounted on rear panel?

Yes, for case modding.
Some cases (mainly for AMD computers) have places to put fans on the sides.
And there are some 100% transparent cases where those fans look rather cool.

[]s


--
_____ ___ Chaos MasterŽ
| | Posting from Brazil
| | MSN: wizard_of_yendor at hotmail.com
___|_____| irc.brasnet.org #XLinuxNews #POA

 

[rstlne]

BTW, do people actually buy fans decorated with LEDs? Why? And how do
they see the LEDs if the fan is mounted on rear panel?

Yes, for case modding.
Some cases (mainly for AMD computers) have places to put fans on the
sides.
And there are some 100% transparent cases where those fans look rather
cool.

[]s

Hi,
AMD and INTEL based boards are mainlly made in the ATX formfactor, so all
cases you see that are ATX will take boards that suply either AMD or INTEL
chips

 

[rstlne]

I went to a LAN (gaming) party recently and my box was about the only one
there that was a plain beige box (the way I like it), most of the people
had
tricked out cases with silly graphics, windows in the side and neon
lights,
personally I don't see the point but whatever, it's not as silly as the
guys
who do the same thing to little japanese cars.

Yea.. I will go with you on that one, I have lighted fans just because I
liked the actual fan .. You cant even really tell cause the case blocks
nearly all of the light.

I would rather save the hundeds of $'s (or Ł's) and just buy hardware
upgrades every year or 2

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

"rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote in message
news:t9G8c.1114$7f4.829@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...

I went to a LAN (gaming) party recently and my box was about the only
one
there that was a plain beige box (the way I like it), most of the people
had
tricked out cases with silly graphics, windows in the side and neon
lights,
personally I don't see the point but whatever, it's not as silly as the
guys
who do the same thing to little japanese cars.


Yea.. I will go with you on that one, I have lighted fans just because I
liked the actual fan .. You cant even really tell cause the case blocks
nearly all of the light.

I would rather save the hundeds of $'s (or Ł's) and just buy hardware
upgrades every year or 2

The only h/w upgrade that I've found to be effective is the graphics card.
Otherwise it's more cost effective to buy a new machine entirely.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[jakdedert]

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TfI8c.9580$w54.69698@attbi_s01...

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c3vc7q$2ckmcs$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...


"rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote in message
news:t9G8c.1114$7f4.829@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
I went to a LAN (gaming) party recently and my box was about the
only
one
there that was a plain beige box (the way I like it), most of the
people
had
tricked out cases with silly graphics, windows in the side and neon
lights,
personally I don't see the point but whatever, it's not as silly as
the
guys
who do the same thing to little japanese cars.


Yea.. I will go with you on that one, I have lighted fans just because
I
liked the actual fan .. You cant even really tell cause the case
blocks
nearly all of the light.

I would rather save the hundeds of $'s (or Ł's) and just buy hardware
upgrades every year or 2

The only h/w upgrade that I've found to be effective is the graphics
card.
Otherwise it's more cost effective to buy a new machine entirely.

--

Often yes, though I do usually keep the same case, drives, and things like
the network card. My old parts tend to trickle down through the family.

I do the same...was really p*ssed when they went to the ATX style case, as

some of my AT's had been through several motherboards by then. One, which
I'm still using as a Cyrix 300, started life as a 386 SX.

OTOH, I'd differ with the OP when he said that vid cards are the only
significant upgrade. I'd put additional memory above those in importance
(unless the machine's maxed out already). Other things like
additional/larger hard drives, various disk burners and devices to enhance
the functionality are also worth doing. There does come a point when it's
better to buy--either an all new machine--or at least a bare bones kit,
however.

jak

>

 

[Chaos Master]

rstlne says in da message <MPy8c.1094$7f4.187@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net> in
da phuck'n group sci.electronics.repair:

BTW, do people actually buy fans decorated with LEDs? Why? And how do
they see the LEDs if the fan is mounted on rear panel?

Yes, for case modding.
Some cases (mainly for AMD computers) have places to put fans on the
sides.
And there are some 100% transparent cases where those fans look rather
cool.

[]s


Hi,
AMD and INTEL based boards are mainlly made in the ATX formfactor, so all
cases you see that are ATX will take boards that suply either AMD or INTEL
chips

I mean "for AMD computers" because AMD overclockers use loads of fans.

--
_____ ___ Chaos MasterŽ
| | Posting from Brazil
| | MSN: wizard_of_yendor at hotmail.com
___|_____| irc.brasnet.org #XLinuxNews #POA

 

[Dirk Bruere at Neopax]

"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:ZrK8c.9391$gZ3.5021@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TfI8c.9580$w54.69698@attbi_s01...

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c3vc7q$2ckmcs$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...


"rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote in message
news:t9G8c.1114$7f4.829@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
I went to a LAN (gaming) party recently and my box was about the
only
one
there that was a plain beige box (the way I like it), most of the
people
had
tricked out cases with silly graphics, windows in the side and
neon
lights,
personally I don't see the point but whatever, it's not as silly
as
the
guys
who do the same thing to little japanese cars.


Yea.. I will go with you on that one, I have lighted fans just
because
I
liked the actual fan .. You cant even really tell cause the case
blocks
nearly all of the light.

I would rather save the hundeds of $'s (or Ł's) and just buy
hardware
upgrades every year or 2

The only h/w upgrade that I've found to be effective is the graphics
card.
Otherwise it's more cost effective to buy a new machine entirely.

--

Often yes, though I do usually keep the same case, drives, and things
like
the network card. My old parts tend to trickle down through the family.

I do the same...was really p*ssed when they went to the ATX style case, as
some of my AT's had been through several motherboards by then. One, which
I'm still using as a Cyrix 300, started life as a 386 SX.

OTOH, I'd differ with the OP when he said that vid cards are the only
significant upgrade. I'd put additional memory above those in importance
(unless the machine's maxed out already). Other things like
additional/larger hard drives, various disk burners and devices to enhance
the functionality are also worth doing. There does come a point when it's
better to buy--either an all new machine--or at least a bare bones kit,
however.

On my current machine (<1 yr old, 1GB RAM) the only upgrades I can foresee
as being worthwhile are DVD writer (maybe) and possibly USB2
Of the 80GB disk I have only used 18GB and unless I get into video I don't
see it being used up before replacement time.

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org

 

[jakdedert]

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:

"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:ZrK8c.9391$gZ3.5021@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"James Sweet" <jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TfI8c.9580$w54.69698@attbi_s01...

"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c3vc7q$2ckmcs$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...


"rstlne" <.@text.news.virgin.net> wrote in message
news:t9G8c.1114$7f4.829@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
I went to a LAN (gaming) party recently and my box was about the
only one there that was a plain beige box (the way I like it),
most of the people had tricked out cases with silly graphics,
windows in the side and neon lights, personally I don't see the
point but whatever, it's not as silly
as
the
guys
who do the same thing to little japanese cars.


Yea.. I will go with you on that one, I have lighted fans just
because I liked the actual fan .. You cant even really tell
cause the case blocks nearly all of the light.

I would rather save the hundeds of $'s (or Ł's) and just buy
hardware upgrades every year or 2

The only h/w upgrade that I've found to be effective is the
graphics card. Otherwise it's more cost effective to buy a new
machine entirely.

--

Often yes, though I do usually keep the same case, drives, and
things like the network card. My old parts tend to trickle down
through the family.

I do the same...was really p*ssed when they went to the ATX style
case, as some of my AT's had been through several motherboards by
then. One, which I'm still using as a Cyrix 300, started life as a
386 SX.

OTOH, I'd differ with the OP when he said that vid cards are the only
significant upgrade. I'd put additional memory above those in
importance (unless the machine's maxed out already). Other things
like additional/larger hard drives, various disk burners and devices
to enhance the functionality are also worth doing. There does come
a point when it's better to buy--either an all new machine--or at
least a bare bones kit, however.

On my current machine (<1 yr old, 1GB RAM) the only upgrades I can
foresee as being worthwhile are DVD writer (maybe) and possibly USB2
Of the 80GB disk I have only used 18GB and unless I get into video I
don't see it being used up before replacement time.

That's the kind of thing I was talking about. You're maxed out...almost.
Since you didn't detail the rest of the machine, there's no way to judge.

Beware that the reviews I've read on USB2 upgrades indicate that the
performance is considerably worse than with dedicated on-board USB2.

jak