[OT]: Rainwater Permit: "May I pretty-please have a drop of

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:08:36 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

Visitors to AZ will note that all new commercial construction has
shallow landscaped moats surrounding the property, to catch all the
rainwater, rather than having it drain into the streets.
So, that jazz musician with the speech impediment got a day job?

"Man, I dig you da moat!"

Cheers!
Rich
 
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:eek:tmqu019f2sv5j1mljqukabulr605hldd2@4ax.com...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:11:22 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article <WgbQO9DWvS7BFwmg@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
[...]

Haven't you had riparian rights before? I would have thought that they
would have been brought over from Britain, at least, since they are very
ancient here. I mean, 'from time immemorial' - before 1186.

In the state of Texas, the biggest pump wins. Any water on your land or
below your land is yours to pump out.

In Californian, LA wins. Any water LA wants badly enough they get.

--

Not quite. AZ has first rights to the Colorado River.
Not since 1922.

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/arroyo/101comm.html
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 07:07:09 -0800, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:eek:tmqu019f2sv5j1mljqukabulr605hldd2@4ax.com...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:11:22 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article <WgbQO9DWvS7BFwmg@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
[...]

Haven't you had riparian rights before? I would have thought that they
would have been brought over from Britain, at least, since they are very
ancient here. I mean, 'from time immemorial' - before 1186.

In the state of Texas, the biggest pump wins. Any water on your land or
below your land is yours to pump out.

In Californian, LA wins. Any water LA wants badly enough they get.

--

Not quite. AZ has first rights to the Colorado River.

Not since 1922.

http://ag.arizona.edu/AZWATER/arroyo/101comm.html
That's somewhat out of date. I'll have to track down the cases, but
CA went to court to up their share and lost the case. IIRC AZ got
their apportionment increased.

Also that article is basin-based. The rule now is AZ owns all the
water in the Colorado where the Colorado forms the CA-AZ border,
independent of the basin rule. So CA has to get their water from Lake
Mead.

I guess CA needs a Washington-state-like cistern law ;-)

AZ's big problem is population growth, but CA doesn't have that
problem... one of the benefits of the welfare state making living
expenses so high... but they're all moving to AZ :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote in
message news:8patu0pol5309blb3ma9cj8mek17dlv527@4ax.com...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:29:47 -0800, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com

You can do what Colorado does. They ship it to California in beer cans.

Coors? Tastes like water, now that you mention it.
The Coors brewing methos has several regional advantages.

College kids can drink Coors with less severe hangover problems than with
competing beers.

A good portion of Colorado is at such a high altitude that the inebriating
effect of beer is multiplied.

They don't have to water it down to meet the legal requirements for sale in
Utah.
 
Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:

Nothing is so ridiculous that it cannot be true when the daemon of
bureaucracy is invoked:

For Example, here in Denmark they use light aircraft and image-processing
software to analyse aerial photos of all properties to look for any TAXABLE
improvements to your very own Home; there is a value tax on property. ... I
worked with the guy who wrote (part of) the software.
That's the way it's been done here in AZ, USA for many years. The
criterion is (was?) shaded area; shade is a valuable commodity here.

They used aerial photography not for the "stealth" aspect, but
because homes were farther apart when it started, and the manpower to
inspect outlying properties wasn't available.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
Richard Henry wrote:

In San Diego, the city produces tons of clean water by extracting oit from
sewage. The water is cleaner than rainwater, and way cleaner than Colorado
River water. However, it is politiaclly impossible to introduce it directly
into the public water supply. So it is mostly sprayed on golf coures,
parks, and freeway landscaping.

People don't want to drink former sewage. I suppose a trip to the Gunnison,
Colorado treatment plant is in order.
Well, obviously _all_ water is "former sewage" if you track it back
far enough. But people are being trained to be stupid, and it seems to
be working.

Mark L. Fergerson
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:11:22 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net
(Ken Smith) wrote:

In article <WgbQO9DWvS7BFwmg@jmwa.demon.co.uk>,
John Woodgate <noone@yuk.yuk> wrote:
[...]

Haven't you had riparian rights before? I would have thought that they
would have been brought over from Britain, at least, since they are very
ancient here. I mean, 'from time immemorial' - before 1186.

In the state of Texas, the biggest pump wins. Any water on your land or
below your land is yours to pump out.

In Californian, LA wins. Any water LA wants badly enough they get.

--
Not quite. AZ has first rights to the Colorado River.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:29:47 -0800, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

"Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" <eatmyshorts@doubleclick.net> wrote in
message news:pan.2005.01.19.05.46.54.151788@doubleclick.net...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:24:44 -0600, Scott Stephens wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:

I followed the link and discovered some stuff:

(2) The bill is not just about rain water landing on your roof. It is
also about all manner of run-off water.

(4) The rain barrels and cisterns are included in the text to allow
rules
to exist so that folks don't need permits for rain water that fell on
their own roof.

In other words, the law is being mischaracterized by those who oppose
it.

I guess I don't understand. I can use my own rainwater, but not give it
or sell it then? What is the law for?

The way I understand it, the law is for preventing people who happen to
have bought a piece of land with a natural stream running across it from
damming that stream and using, or selling, that water which if
uninterfered with, would have flowed downstream where somebody else has
the same dilemma.

Apparently, the only legal way to collect stream water is to wait for it
at the delta.

You can do what Colorado does. They ship it to California in beer cans.
Coors? Tastes like water, now that you mention it.

John
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 02:25:11 +0000, Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

Now what in blazes is this doing in this newsgroup
Relieving boredom

and why am I perpetuating
this idiotic thread.
Because you, like most of the rest of us, are dying of loneliness.
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.
 
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:59:54 -0800, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

....
The benign interpretation is:

The bill is to prevent 'harvesting' rainwater in Washington state and shipping
it to, say, Arizona or Hanford.

Or, since paragraph 4 allows the governing body to allow (or disallow)
barrels and cisterns even for use on your own property, it gives them
the ability to force you to buy 'their' water instead of collecting your
own. Even for uses where there is no water quality issue, like watering
your lawn.
If your intent in capturing rainwater is to water your lawn, why do you
need the intermediate step? Isn't that where it would fall anyway? ?:-/

Thanks,
Rich
 
In article <pan.2005.01.21.09.40.48.10638@example.net>,
richgrise@example.net says...
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:59:54 -0800, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

...
The benign interpretation is:

The bill is to prevent 'harvesting' rainwater in Washington state and shipping
it to, say, Arizona or Hanford.

Or, since paragraph 4 allows the governing body to allow (or disallow)
barrels and cisterns even for use on your own property, it gives them
the ability to force you to buy 'their' water instead of collecting your
own. Even for uses where there is no water quality issue, like watering
your lawn.

If your intent in capturing rainwater is to water your lawn, why do you
need the intermediate step? Isn't that where it would fall anyway? ?:-/
What's the point in a DVR? The television shows are just going to end
up on the TV anyway.

--
Keith
 
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:35:51 GMT, Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote:

If your intent in capturing rainwater is to water your lawn, why do you
need the intermediate step? Isn't that where it would fall anyway? ?:-/
Good point. So you'll need *two* licenses, then: one for rainfall on
your roof, the other for your garden. Perhaps they'll be decent and
knock off 15% from the total if you buy both together?
I'm sure that's what the Government will do here in Britland, anyway,
when they read that you once-justly-pround people have simply caved in
over it.
--

"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
 
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:19:00 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Mark Fergerson <nunya@biz.ness> wrote (in
3caHd.5030$0B.1461@fed1read02>) about '[OT]: Rainwater Permit: "May I pretty-
please have a drop of rain-water Uncle Sam?"', on Tue, 18 Jan 2005:

Now, you "must" contain that same water to
prevent downstreamers' having to cope with it (over the specified CFS
minimum, that is). IOW you have to shoulder your own flood damages, but
not pass them on.

Let us hope that the sponsors of the bill get a once-in-100 years cloudburst over
their properties and attempt to contain the resulting flow!

Would they like some pictures of Boscastle?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cornwall/uncovered/stories/august2004/boscastle_floods.shtml
We, here in AZ, have "once-in-100 years" floods about every 5-7 years
;-)

That's why you will see many parks that are depressed below street
level. The most famous is Indian Bend Wash Park in Scottsdale,
running for nearly nine miles, from just below Shea Boulevard to
McDowell Road.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:00:45 -0800, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com>
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:ieusu09mto6nulakn70ugju45mukna2foo@4ax.com...
[snip]
independent of the basin rule. So CA has to get their water from Lake
Mead.

I did not know that. Cna you provide a reference?
I'll try to track that down... it was about 15 years ago.

I guess CA needs a Washington-state-like cistern law ;-)

AZ's big problem is population growth, but CA doesn't have that
problem... one of the benefits of the welfare state making living
expenses so high... but they're all moving to AZ :-(

The ultimate benefit California will have is the long shoreline: lots of
free water, only slightly saltier than the river water we get now.

In San Diego, the city produces tons of clean water by extracting oit from
sewage. The water is cleaner than rainwater, and way cleaner than Colorado
River water. However, it is politiaclly impossible to introduce it directly
into the public water supply. So it is mostly sprayed on golf coures,
parks, and freeway landscaping.
Here, the Phoenix water system, under youngest daughter's tutelage,
introduces it into the groundwater away from direct wells, and
recycles it that way. Obviously this is not publicized ;-)

People don't want to drink former sewage. I suppose a trip to the Gunnison,
Colorado treatment plant is in order.
The general population never understands science. In yesteryears we
would have all been burned at the stake ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:47:37 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:29:47 -0800, "Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com
wrote:


"Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" <eatmyshorts@doubleclick.net> wrote in
message news:pan.2005.01.19.05.46.54.151788@doubleclick.net...
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 03:24:44 -0600, Scott Stephens wrote:

Ken Smith wrote:

I followed the link and discovered some stuff:

(2) The bill is not just about rain water landing on your roof. It is
also about all manner of run-off water.

(4) The rain barrels and cisterns are included in the text to allow
rules
to exist so that folks don't need permits for rain water that fell on
their own roof.

In other words, the law is being mischaracterized by those who oppose
it.

I guess I don't understand. I can use my own rainwater, but not give it
or sell it then? What is the law for?

The way I understand it, the law is for preventing people who happen to
have bought a piece of land with a natural stream running across it from
damming that stream and using, or selling, that water which if
uninterfered with, would have flowed downstream where somebody else has
the same dilemma.

Apparently, the only legal way to collect stream water is to wait for it
at the delta.

You can do what Colorado does. They ship it to California in beer cans.



Coors? Tastes like water, now that you mention it.

John
ROTFLMAO!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
 
Rich Grise wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:59:54 -0800, Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:


"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:

...

The benign interpretation is:

The bill is to prevent 'harvesting' rainwater in Washington state and shipping
it to, say, Arizona or Hanford.

Or, since paragraph 4 allows the governing body to allow (or disallow)
barrels and cisterns even for use on your own property, it gives them
the ability to force you to buy 'their' water instead of collecting your
own. Even for uses where there is no water quality issue, like watering
your lawn.


If your intent in capturing rainwater is to water your lawn, why do you
need the intermediate step? Isn't that where it would fall anyway? ?:-/

Thanks,
Rich

In the midwest, rain can commonly flood areas. But the weather
patterns have been very unusual here, with the summers being
exceedingly dry. So if some of the excess water from the spring and
fall can be stored for summer, that can really help out with watering
costs.
 

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