OT: More Weirdness from California...

[Cursitor Doom]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

But that would apply to demonstrated individual cases.

The Constitution requires fair compensation for public takings.

The blanket reparations based on race is unworkable and probably
unconstitutional.

The class that really can claim reparations is women.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 10:02:55 -0700, John Larkin
<jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com
wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

But that would apply to demonstrated individual cases.

And presumably only to \'injuns\' - the original red indians who
orignally held the land.

>The Constitution requires fair compensation for public takings.

I should hope so!

The blanket reparations based on race is unworkable and probably
unconstitutional.

More woke nonsense by the sound of it.

The class that really can claim reparations is women.

Ha! Oh yes....

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

But that would apply to demonstrated individual cases.

The Constitution requires fair compensation for public takings.

The blanket reparations based on race is unworkable and probably
unconstitutional.

not to mention racist and insane

The class that really can claim reparations is women.

from whom, their husbands that put food on the table while they raised kids?

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 21.34.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?
Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

why should that be a condition?

 

[bitrex]

On 5/11/2023 3:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 21.34.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?
Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

why should that be a condition?

IRRC JL not only thinks reparations are not a great idea (common
opinion) but is also of the opinion that \"colonization was the best
thing to happen to a lot of places\" (lunatic fringe opinion)

 

[bitrex]

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:29:27 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 21.34.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?
Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

why should that be a condition?

IRRC JL not only thinks reparations are not a great idea (common
opinion) but is also of the opinion that \"colonization was the best
thing to happen to a lot of places\" (lunatic fringe opinion)

As usual, you make up things so you can deplore them.

Make up some circuits, and we can deplore them.

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.


Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..

Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

Descendents of natives and slaves can say the same.

Good book:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Saved-Civilization-Irelands/dp/0385418493

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:29:27 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:47 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 21.34.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?
Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.

why should that be a condition?

IRRC JL not only thinks reparations are not a great idea (common
opinion) but is also of the opinion that \"colonization was the best
thing to happen to a lot of places\" (lunatic fringe opinion)

Colonization was a seriously bad idea, but you have to remember that
the standards of the time were vastly different to those of today and
we can\'t keep fighting yesterday\'s battles. It\'s time to move on and
recognize the new threats which imperil us all today - threats which
could wipe out the entirety of humanity in a heartbeat. We have never
been closer to worldwide destruction than we are today (with the
possible exception of 1962).

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 7:24:56 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..



Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

Quite a few people would be more cheerful if you didn\'t exist. US society would probably have thrown up somebody equally obnoxious. so it isn\'t worth thinking about.

> Descendants of natives and slaves can say the same.

Some them can even spell descendant.

Good book:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Saved-Civilization-Irelands/dp/0385418493

It rather neglects the Islamic period in Spain which did and even better job of preserving Greek and Roman texts, and even developed them further which the Irish didn\'t seem to be able to manage.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 5/11/2023 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:

Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

Yeah it\'s one of those angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin style questions that
I imagine sometimes preoccupies people who view all of history as being
just prologue to their own unique life.

Gosh, and I thought it was leftists who were supposed to be the \"special
snowflakes\"!

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 12 May 2023 11:09:13 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 5:23 PM, John Larkin wrote:

Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

Yeah it\'s one of those angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin style questions that
I imagine sometimes preoccupies people who view all of history as being
just prologue to their own unique life.

Of course it is. And my existence does preoccupy me; it affects me
almost every day.

The cool thing about chaos theory is that you can conjecture most any
causality (today\'s news: brush fires in South Africa four years ago
caused the drought (now floods) in California) and you\'re right.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 5:24:56 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.


Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..



Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

I\'m not sure you can say Rome colonized England. The British Isles were known as Britannia to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia

It was more of a military outpost than anything else. Their main job was preventing the indigenous barbaric riffraff from slaughtering each other as they were wont to do eternally, and redirect them to more organized and constructive pursuits of making a civilization.

Rome was totally over-extended on a global scale, and threw in the towel in Britannia in the early 5th century. This cued a German tribal collective known as Angles to move in and settle the place, from which the name England ultimately derived. The most recent archeological evidence is that the Angles did not conquer England militarily, they just moved in en masse and started living there. The place was a perpetual battleground between the Angles-Saxons and Scandinavians who wanted a piece of the place too.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Angle-people

Descendents of natives and slaves can say the same.

Good book:

https://www.amazon.com/How-Irish-Saved-Civilization-Irelands/dp/0385418493

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:42:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 5:24:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.


Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..



Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

I\'m not sure you can say Rome colonized England. The British Isles were known as Britannia to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia

It was more of a military outpost than anything else. Their main job was preventing the indigenous barbaric riffraff from slaughtering each other as they were wont to do eternally, and redirect them to more organized and constructive pursuits of making a civilization.

Rome was totally over-extended on a global scale, and threw in the towel in Britannia in the early 5th century. This cued a German tribal collective known as Angles to move in and settle the place, from which the name England ultimately derived. The most recent archeological evidence is that the Angles did not conquer England militarily, they just moved in en masse and started living there. The place was a perpetual battleground between the Angles-Saxons and Scandinavians who wanted a piece of the place too.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Angle-people

For some inexplicable reason it remains a prime destination for all
sorts of people to this day. They all seem to want a piece of that
craggy, soggy, rain-soaked lump of moss. What draws them to it? Could
it be the awful climate? The indigenous racists who don\'t want them?
The sky-high property prices? A weak and ineffectual government? The
terrible food? Who knows!

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 12:43:09 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

The answer to that question is how many votes does it buy.

The plan is not grounded in any kind of law. It is grounded in politics. The neo-liberal ethic is no one is a failure, they\'re a victim.

 

[Cursitor Doom]

On Fri, 12 May 2023 11:11:24 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 12:43:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?

The answer to that question is how many votes does it buy.

The plan is not grounded in any kind of law. It is grounded in politics. The neo-liberal ethic is no one is a failure, they\'re a victim.

The neo-Liberal ethic itself is the failure.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, May 12, 2023 at 2:13:25 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:42:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 5:24:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal..\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.


Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..



Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

I\'m not sure you can say Rome colonized England. The British Isles were known as Britannia to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia

It was more of a military outpost than anything else. Their main job was preventing the indigenous barbaric riffraff from slaughtering each other as they were wont to do eternally, and redirect them to more organized and constructive pursuits of making a civilization.

Rome was totally over-extended on a global scale, and threw in the towel in Britannia in the early 5th century. This cued a German tribal collective known as Angles to move in and settle the place, from which the name England ultimately derived. The most recent archeological evidence is that the Angles did not conquer England militarily, they just moved in en masse and started living there. The place was a perpetual battleground between the Angles-Saxons and Scandinavians who wanted a piece of the place too.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Angle-people
For some inexplicable reason it remains a prime destination for all
sorts of people to this day. They all seem to want a piece of that
craggy, soggy, rain-soaked lump of moss. What draws them to it? Could
it be the awful climate? The indigenous racists who don\'t want them?
The sky-high property prices? A weak and ineffectual government? The
terrible food? Who knows!

They must be masochists!

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 12 May 2023 19:10:55 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2023 10:42:15 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 5:24:56?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 16:41:25 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

On 5/11/2023 3:33 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 11:13:37 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 11. maj 2023 kl. 19.03.11 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 17:41:02 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com
wrote:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2023-05-08/california-reparations-task-force-votes-approve-cost-recommendations-800-billion

I thought it was a principle under civil law that when someone has
been wronged and compensation deemed appropriate, the money is taken
from those who have become unjustly enriched and given to those who
have suffered as a result of that wrongdoing. But that\'s not what\'s
being contemplated here. The persons who committed the original wrongs
are all long dead, as are those who suffered at their hands. I don\'t
see how one can justly apportion blame among those alive today. They
have done no wrong and the people who it is proposed to compensate
have suffered no wrong either.
What are we supposed to do? Just shrug and resign ourselves to saying
California\'s different? Are they really going to go ahead with this?
There could be justification for property that was taken at below
market value, like in the Fillmore District here. People alive now
would have inherited from their parents and the properties would be
worth 100x what they were when they were taken for \"urban renewal.\"

So native Americans should be compensated for the US increase in value
ever since it was colonized by Europeans?

Only if they are willing to go back to hunter-gatherer life with no
houses or pickup trucks or horses, and go back to tribal warfare for
land to hunt in.


Colonization also tends to change the people colonized almost instantly
from masters of their own destiny, to some of the poorest people on the
planet at a particular time.

That some distant descendants of the few percent of indigenous people
that survived the experience should be able to benefit from modern
conveniences would likely be cold comfort to their ancestors, not to
mention that the fact that the survivor\'s descendants are around to
enjoy modern conveniences at all tends to still deeply irritate a
sizable fraction of the descendants of the colonizer.

IIRC you claim Irish ancestry, so one would think you\'d be in a better
position to have an understanding of the issues involved..



Personally, I\'m happy that the Romans colonized England and that
England colonized Ireland next. If none of that had happened, I
wouldn\'t exist, and then where would I be?

I\'m not sure you can say Rome colonized England. The British Isles were known as Britannia to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia

It was more of a military outpost than anything else. Their main job was preventing the indigenous barbaric riffraff from slaughtering each other as they were wont to do eternally, and redirect them to more organized and constructive pursuits of making a civilization.

Rome was totally over-extended on a global scale, and threw in the towel in Britannia in the early 5th century. This cued a German tribal collective known as Angles to move in and settle the place, from which the name England ultimately derived. The most recent archeological evidence is that the Angles did not conquer England militarily, they just moved in en masse and started living there. The place was a perpetual battleground between the Angles-Saxons and Scandinavians who wanted a piece of the place too.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Angle-people

For some inexplicable reason it remains a prime destination for all
sorts of people to this day. They all seem to want a piece of that
craggy, soggy, rain-soaked lump of moss. What draws them to it? Could
it be the awful climate? The indigenous racists who don\'t want them?
The sky-high property prices? A weak and ineffectual government? The
terrible food? Who knows!

Craggy? The Moors? Marshes? Fens? Peat? Bogs?

Good book about a lot of water, The Nine Tailors.