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Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
\"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla wants
the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of which
electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are car-agnostic,
ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck from GM, whether
it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does not matter. One of
each would be best, actually.
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
 \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
 WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
 Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
 \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
 WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
 Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
I do hope they put the powertrain from that \"electric hummer\" they\'veOn 10/28/2020 5:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
GM trucks are viciously overpriced. might be why most pickups I see
doing actual work are Dodge.
On 10/28/20 3:06 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 5:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
GM trucks are viciously overpriced. might be why most pickups I see
doing actual work are Dodge.
I do hope they put the powertrain from that \"electric hummer\" they\'ve
been hyping lately in a real truck...let\'s see, 1000 hp in a Colorado,
that sounds about right.
I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. Thebitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
 \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
 WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
 Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
    I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
   California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
 business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most expensive
luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a really
dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the mid
2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it was much
better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge battery
pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt motor into a
tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was an easy mod. But
at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is about
14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
\"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS hatchback, $10287. The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474. The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman, $18,017. A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 05:55:59 -0500, Dean Hoffman <deanhofman@clod.com
wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
 \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
 WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
 Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS hatchback, $10287. The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474. The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman, $18,017. A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
The pols here want to force every car to be electric, and are
simultaneously destroying our ability to provide a reliable electric
supply. There is also a trend to banning natural gas in residences and
to not use fossil fuels to make electricity.
I suspect that there aren\'t many electrical engineers among the state
legislature. Most have done nothing their entire lives but be
politicians. The press can rarely distinguish a kilowatt from a KWH
and freely interchanges \"million\" with \"billion.\"
About self-driving, maybe it can be made to work on freeways, but it
would be a lot more difficult in cities. Around here, there is every
imaginable object blasting along the (steep!) streets at all sorts of
velocities and directions. Cars, motorcycles, scooters, skateboards,
bicycles, shopping carts, wheelchairs, unicycles, battery-powered
roller skates, pedestrians, animals, delivery vehicles, all trying to
avoid kids and potholes. The cars often run stop signs and red lights
and the wheeled people always do. Some people cross the street
whenever and wherever they want, oblivious of traffic. We were driving
uphill on Swiss street and a wheeled recycling bin was in the middle
of the street coming right at us, going maybe 30 mph downhill. At the
last second, it swerved and smacked a parked car.
It\'s going to take a lot more than a few cameras and uP\'s to manage
all that.
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most expensive
luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a really
dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the mid
2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it was much
better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge battery
pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt motor into a
tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was an easy mod. But
at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is about
14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
On 10/29/20 9:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts
store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most
expensive luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a
really dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the
mid 2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it was
much better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge
battery pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt
motor into a tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was an
easy mod. But at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is
about 14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
      I tried to be careful about the pricing but could\'ve messed up.
 That car wasn\'t
on Carvana this morning.  This one is on Auto Trader.
http://preview.alturl.com/5un4f>Â Â Â $10,895
I didn\'t look at anything except price.  I\'ve spent a little time
looking at pickups
the last few days. The manufacturers are sure proud of those things.
On 10/29/2020 12:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/29/20 9:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven
vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts
store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most
expensive luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a
really dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the
mid 2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it
was much better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge
battery pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt
motor into a tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was
an easy mod. But at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is
about 14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
       I tried to be careful about the pricing but could\'ve messed
up. Â Â That car wasn\'t
on Carvana this morning.  This one is on Auto Trader.
http://preview.alturl.com/5un4f>Â Â Â $10,895
I didn\'t look at anything except price.  I\'ve spent a little time
looking at pickups
the last few days. The manufacturers are sure proud of those things.
Yeah proud of the margins! The low and mid tier US-made trucks and SUVs
like Jeep are pretty bland and low-tech by comparison with other
vehicles at the same price point, but you can charge a premium for \'em
anyway.
On 10/29/2020 12:19 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 12:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/29/20 9:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies,
Tesla wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric
vehicles exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles
of which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They
are car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000
truck from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or
whatever it does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven
vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts
store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most
expensive luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a
really dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the
mid 2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it
was much better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile
quick-charge battery pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of
the Chevy Volt motor into a tiny car it was absurdly powerful for
its size. It was an easy mod. But at the time it couldn\'t be sold at
a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is
about 14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
       I tried to be careful about the pricing but could\'ve messed
up. Â Â That car wasn\'t
on Carvana this morning.  This one is on Auto Trader.
http://preview.alturl.com/5un4f>Â Â Â $10,895
I didn\'t look at anything except price.  I\'ve spent a little time
looking at pickups
the last few days. The manufacturers are sure proud of those things.
Yeah proud of the margins! The low and mid tier US-made trucks and
SUVs like Jeep are pretty bland and low-tech by comparison with other
vehicles at the same price point, but you can charge a premium for \'em
anyway.
A 2021 Silverado crew cab with 2WD and a V8 is well over 40 grand with
none of the stuff like rear-cross traffic alert, blind spot monitoring,
etc. that comes standard these days on a car that costs 10k less, it\'s
all further options.
On 10/29/2020 12:25 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 12:19 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 12:07 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/29/20 9:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies,
Tesla wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric
vehicles exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles
of which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They
are car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000
truck from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or
whatever it does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority
of drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven
vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto
parts store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most
expensive luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a
really dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in
the mid 2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car
it was much better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile
quick-charge battery pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of
the Chevy Volt motor into a tiny car it was absurdly powerful for
its size. It was an easy mod. But at the time it couldn\'t be sold
at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is
about 14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
       I tried to be careful about the pricing but could\'ve messed
up. Â Â That car wasn\'t
on Carvana this morning.  This one is on Auto Trader.
http://preview.alturl.com/5un4f>Â Â Â $10,895
I didn\'t look at anything except price.  I\'ve spent a little time
looking at pickups
the last few days. The manufacturers are sure proud of those things.
Yeah proud of the margins! The low and mid tier US-made trucks and
SUVs like Jeep are pretty bland and low-tech by comparison with other
vehicles at the same price point, but you can charge a premium for
\'em anyway.
A 2021 Silverado crew cab with 2WD and a V8 is well over 40 grand with
none of the stuff like rear-cross traffic alert, blind spot
monitoring, etc. that comes standard these days on a car that costs
10k less, it\'s all further options.
Lol you don\'t even get fucking wheel-mounted controls for the
radio/infotainment system at that price, it\'s a further $1200 option.
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it does
not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
 \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
 WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of drivers?
 Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS hatchback, $10287. The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474. The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman, $18,017. A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
On 10/29/2020 10:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most expensive
luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a really
dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the mid
2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it was much
better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge battery
pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt motor into a
tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was an easy mod. But
at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is about
14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
The margins are very thin down there I don\'t know if GM is making any
more than 2k net off cars that cost 14k, probably less.
On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 11:00:20 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 10:54 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 10/29/2020 6:55 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 10/28/20 4:32 PM, Robert Baer wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 10/28/2020 3:47 PM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Tesla\'s AutoPilot is a distant second to GM\'s Super Cruise
according to
Consumer Reports.
https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/vehicles/consumer-reports-tesla-autopilot-super-cruise
Tesla and GM have somewhat different operating philosophies, Tesla
wants the world to switch to driving luxury electric vehicles
exclusively.
GM wants to sell the world a wide assortment of luxury vehicles of
which electric vehicles are just one type you can buy. They are
car-agnostic, ideally everyone in America will buy a $85,000 truck
from GM, whether it\'s gas or electric or hydrogen or whatever it
does not matter. One of each would be best, actually.
  \"Luxury\" schmucks-ery.
  WTF is wrong with a \"garden\" variety design for the majority of
drivers?
  Maybe even a target price below $10,000....
     I took a quick look on the Carvana vehicle sales site. The
cheapest I found was a
2021 Chevy Spark LS  hatchback, $10287.  The cheapest sedan was a
2020 Mitsubishi Mirage G4 ES, $10,474.  The cheapest pickup was a
2020 Dodge Ram 1500 Tradesman,  $18,017.  A 2020 Tesla Model X
Long Range with 11,300 miles is for sale on Auto Trader for $96588.
    California\'s ban on selling new internal combustion driven vehicles
starts in 2035. There must be people thinking about the auto parts store
  business. California mechanics might be king in twenty years or so
unless this silly ban is lifted.
Comparing the lowest-price cars you can buy to one of the most expensive
luxury EVs you can buy seems hardly fair. The Mirage is a really
dreadful car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peZ8AQsZabI
The Spark is somewhat better. They sold an all-electric Spark in the mid
2010s in several US states including CA as a compliance car it was much
better as an electric runabout with a ~100 mile quick-charge battery
pack, and with a mostly direct transplant of the Chevy Volt motor into a
tiny car it was absurdly powerful for its size. It was an easy mod. But
at the time it couldn\'t be sold at a profit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkT8rZj8YH0
But the MSRP on the lowest trim gas 2021 Spark on Chevy\'s site is about
14k, don\'t know how anyone\'s selling it at a profit at 10.
The margins are very thin down there I don\'t know if GM is making any
more than 2k net off cars that cost 14k, probably less.
I think you are making up numbers. My understanding is the profit per car approaches zero as the price drops. Given the costs of operating a factory do not scale to zero as the production rate drops, auto makers will continue to pump out cars when the volumes drop and profits on the low end cars can go negative easily.
It\'s the dealers who don\'t have much choice in making profit on everything they sell. They have a hard time making it up in the quantity.