OT: Game

Keith Williams · Jul 19, 2005

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

--
Keith

Jim Thompson · Jul 19, 2005

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:15:25 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote:

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

You're in Burlington, correct ?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Keith Williams · Jul 19, 2005

In article <endqd1pjgu4igkru67js4tua32bh8fq1o9@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:15:25 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

You're in Burlington, correct ?

Sure, but the widget I work on is made in E. Fishkill (90nm/300mm).

--
Keith

Jim Thompson · Jul 19, 2005

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:26:54 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz>
wrote:

In article <endqd1pjgu4igkru67js4tua32bh8fq1o9@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:15:25 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

You're in Burlington, correct ?

Sure, but the widget I work on is made in E. Fishkill (90nm/300mm).

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

ehsjr · Jul 19, 2005

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:26:54 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <endqd1pjgu4igkru67js4tua32bh8fq1o9@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:15:25 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

You're in Burlington, correct ?

Sure, but the widget I work on is made in E. Fishkill (90nm/300mm).

I haven't been to Fishkill, but I've been to the Watkins Research
Center many times, to see the Intermec RFID tag guys.

...Jim Thompson

Next time you're going to be there let me know. I'll take you to
lunch/dinner, schedule permitting.

Ed

Tom Del Rosso · Jul 20, 2005

"Keith Williams" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d46ff3c4239e17989b33@news.individual.net...

We're doing ten-level metal.

Dang. But AIUI we still can't put one transistor on top of another, can we?
I vaguely remember Integrated Injection Logic (I2L) involved psuedo stacking
of active elements.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they
go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

Do you happen to know what the limits are?

--

Reply in group, but if emailing add
2 more zeros and remove the obvious.

keith · Jul 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:05:02 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

"Keith Williams" <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d46ff3c4239e17989b33@news.individual.net...

We're doing ten-level metal.

Dang. But AIUI we still can't put one transistor on top of another, can we?
I vaguely remember Integrated Injection Logic (I2L) involved psuedo stacking
of active elements.

One can bury a lot, but I don't thignk two on top, yet. Density of
transistors isn't the real problem. ...which, in part, is why more
levels of metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they
go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

Do you happen to know what the limits are?

I don't do PD, so no, but I might be able to ask. I do know cracked
vias are a real problem. Redundant vias are stuck in for reliability.

--
Keith

keith · Jul 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:56:42 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:26:54 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <endqd1pjgu4igkru67js4tua32bh8fq1o9@4ax.com>,
thegreatone@example.com says...
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:15:25 -0400, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz
wrote:

In article <WN%Ce.150846$mx5.123675@fe08.lga>, ng01@att.net.invalid
says...
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now.

We're doing ten-level metal.

The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

The vias tend to break under thermal stress if you try. Outcome, not
good.

You're in Burlington, correct ?

Sure, but the widget I work on is made in E. Fishkill (90nm/300mm).

I haven't been to Fishkill, but I've been to the Watkins Research
Center many times, to see the Intermec RFID tag guys.

I moved out of the mid-hudson valley twelve years ago and haven't
regretted it a minute. We *hated* NY. VT is getting on the nerves too.

--
Keith

jim dorey · Jul 20, 2005

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:50:28 -0300, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

I moved out of the mid-hudson valley twelve years ago and haven't
regretted it a minute. We *hated* NY. VT is getting on the nerves too.

have you considered calgary?

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Paul Hovnanian P.E. · Jul 20, 2005

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Ability at this flash game is probably a good indicator or predictor
of ability at certain aspects of PCB layout:

Is it permissible to send this out to my subcontractor in Taiwan and
then submit the resulting high score as my own?

;-)

http://home.cwru.edu/~jnt5/Planarity/

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto

aul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not mold, findle or sputilate.

Brad Velander · Jul 20, 2005

Ken,
Got any jobs for a PCB designer? I like your benefits, food
breaks and even subsidized housing. You don't charge the employee
for the company supplied meals or shelter, right? Can I get at
least 15 minutes per day outside the cubicle for exercise? Is a
hot plate in the cubicle allowed?

Brad

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news

t3De.1669$PL5.193688@news.xtra.co.nz...

"Ian" <Ian_Buckner_not_@agilent.com> wrote in message
news:1121759401.894870@newsreg.cos.agilent.com...

I just e-mailed the pointer to my PCB layout guy, and let him
get on with it.

Regards
Ian

;-)

Very cruel. Toss him a pizza every few days.....

Ken

Robert · Jul 20, 2005

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:3f1qd15a5edfsnqbv1s7hp1q8ldh4rals6@4ax.com...

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:58:21 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
ng01@att.net.invalid> wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:0lpod1lko5aknnd3ogskgto1a6fkunmoc8@4ax.com...

Not for at least 25 years, but I used to be very good at it... all
kinds of tricks to do single-layer metal.

I've wondered about how they do 7-layer metal now. The "vias" must be
limited to passing only a few layers down, right? I can't believe they go
down from top to bottom.

I really don't know for sure, but I believe a via can only do one
connection, not multiples as in PCB's. I have several subcontractors
that do that for me now.

...Jim Thompson

We had 4 layers of plated Gold in the processes I worked on. And we could
open vias all the way down to combine all 4 layers into one. Can't say how
it was/is with other processes.

Robert

Keith Williams · Jul 20, 2005

In article <op.st6xypbofr5e9h@trebuchet>, skaar@ns.sympatico.ca says...

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 22:50:28 -0300, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

I moved out of the mid-hudson valley twelve years ago and haven't
regretted it a minute. We *hated* NY. VT is getting on the nerves too.

have you considered calgary?

No. Is there a reason we should? Interesting idea though, but on the

wrong side of the borDER, eh. ;-)

--
Keith

jim dorey · Jul 20, 2005

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:15:38 -0300, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

No. Is there a reason we should? Interesting idea though, but on the
wrong side of the borDER, eh. ;-)

it's nice, near mountains, protected from the worst of the winter weather
by those mountains, the lrt is kinda cool too.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Ken Taylor · Jul 21, 2005

You want food *and* exercise? Sheesh! You get a pizza slid in under the door
every two days and that's it. No expense spared on walls though, no cubicles
here - full-sized cells!

And it comes off your pay-check. At least, that seems to be the way it's
done.

Ken

"Brad Velander" <SpamThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:EpkDe.1601$s54.1056@pd7tw2no...

Ken,
Got any jobs for a PCB designer? I like your benefits, food
breaks and even subsidized housing. You don't charge the employee
for the company supplied meals or shelter, right? Can I get at
least 15 minutes per day outside the cubicle for exercise? Is a
hot plate in the cubicle allowed?

Brad

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
newst3De.1669$PL5.193688@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Ian" <Ian_Buckner_not_@agilent.com> wrote in message
news:1121759401.894870@newsreg.cos.agilent.com...

I just e-mailed the pointer to my PCB layout guy, and let him
get on with it.

Regards
Ian

;-)

Very cruel. Toss him a pizza every few days.....

Ken

Brad Velander · Jul 21, 2005

Well, now I am not sure Ken.
The food breaks are a plus but my current employer doesn't
charge for my cubicle. Do you allow pets? Could I bring along my
pet Jr. designer, he is cubicle trained and wouldn't know how to
open a door to escape.
It would be an upgrade to have four solid walls but at what
cost? 8^>

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"Ken Taylor" <ken@home.nz> wrote in message
news:7VFDe.2201$PL5.236723@news.xtra.co.nz...

You want food *and* exercise? Sheesh! You get a pizza slid in
under the door
every two days and that's it. No expense spared on walls
though, no cubicles
here - full-sized cells!

And it comes off your pay-check. At least, that seems to be the
way it's
done.

Ken

Jeff · Jul 21, 2005

"Winfield Hill" <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:dbit2b01j3v@drn.newsguy.com...

Martin Riddle wrote...

Nice game,
I was on Level 5, but...
Then was called to an 1 1/2 hour engineering meeting and the
project had major changes.

Now were back at level 1.

I reached level 7 in the first 10 minutes, but then I've done
a lot of tough pcb layouts in my day. That game needs a block
drag-select-and-move capability, like any decent PCB program.

--
Thanks,
- Win

Times for each level on my second round (I too have done some tough
layouts):

1st level: 10 s
2nd level: 16 s
3rd Level: 31 s
4th Level: 1:24
5th Level: 2:57 (but had to fiddle around a bunch to find an overlapping //
edge)
6th Level: 3:18
7th Level: 5:38
8th Level: 4:00
9th Level: 8:07
10th Level: 9:14
11th Level: 10:14
12th Level: 14:17

Clicked on a web site, and wiped out the game, so no more timings

Jeff

keith · Jul 22, 2005

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:55:09 +0000, jim dorey wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:15:38 -0300, Keith Williams <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

No. Is there a reason we should? Interesting idea though, but on the
wrong side of the borDER, eh. ;-)

it's nice, near mountains, protected from the worst of the winter weather
by those mountains, the lrt is kinda cool too.

I've never been to Calgary, but have always wanted to get out that way.
I'd never considered moving to the area (or anywhere in Canada, FTM).
Work?

--
Keith

keith · Jul 23, 2005

On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 04:40:31 +0000, jim dorey wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:27:52 -0300, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

I've never been to Calgary, but have always wanted to get out that way.
I'd never considered moving to the area (or anywhere in Canada, FTM).
Work?

vancouver, olympics or some such, trademen seem to be scarce, but calgary
does have a somewhat decent tech industry. there's a devry campus, i
stiffed them on a grand 12 years back, i fully intend to pay them back,
eventually. http://www.calgarylinks.net/local/Employment might make you
happy or depressed, dunno, i haven't checked the links, since i live on
the other side of the country i have limited interest in employment there.

I thought you had some interest there and were pointing me in that
direction. Oh, well It is a nice place, but all accounts.

I'm looking more at the mid-west US, primarily because I have family there
(and it's cheap).

--
Keith

jim dorey · Jul 22, 2005

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:27:52 -0300, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

I've never been to Calgary, but have always wanted to get out that way.
I'd never considered moving to the area (or anywhere in Canada, FTM).
Work?

vancouver, olympics or some such, trademen seem to be scarce, but calgary
does have a somewhat decent tech industry. there's a devry campus, i
stiffed them on a grand 12 years back, i fully intend to pay them back,
eventually. http://www.calgarylinks.net/local/Employment might make you
happy or depressed, dunno, i haven't checked the links, since i live on
the other side of the country i have limited interest in employment there.

--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

OT: Game

Keith Williams

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Jim Thompson

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Keith Williams

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Jim Thompson

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ehsjr

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Tom Del Rosso

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keith

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keith

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jim dorey

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Paul Hovnanian P.E.

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Brad Velander

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Robert

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Keith Williams

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Brad Velander

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