OT: effect of US Govt shutting down software accounts

[Tom Del Rosso]

Whoey Louie wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:20:43 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

Whatever you think about that, right or wrong, it's trivial
compared to what Trump has done with Iran. Not only has ...

Trump is doing the right thing here.

What!? Trump was unhappy the agreement allowed Iran to start
thinking about nuclear weapons on 10 years, despite its taking
away Iran's nuclear material and reinstating inspections, so he
killed the deal, so they can start right away? That's good!?

Yes, 10 years goes by pretty fast, and inspections are useless with
countries that have hidden facilities.

And with the new agreement that Trump says is coming, those
inspections will be super trumptastic and most excellent, right? No
hidden facility issues either? Why would any
country, eg Iran, NK, reach a agreement with the US when they just saw
Trump renege on one the US made just a few years ago?

Since Iran was already violating the agreement in multiple ways, which
Obama supporters choose to ignore, and since NK would do the same, why
would we make an agreement with them or any dictatorship? Only if the
concessions they must make are absolutely certain - that's why. Which
was the case with Pinochet and with Quadaffi. We agreed not to
prosecute Pinochet if he relinquished power peacefully, and when he
stepped down that was undeniably verifiable, yet the left insisted on
prosecuting him anyway. We also agreed not to overthrow Quadaffi if he
handed over his WMD, which he did and we could verify that he had no
program to make more, since he had bought what he had and never had the
ability to make it, yet a Democratic administration overthrew him
anyway, and created ISIS in the aftermath.

 

[whit3rd]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:05:53 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

> Nobody doing business with an American business has to worry about a thing as long as their country has not been officially designated a national security threat to the United States. I mean seriously!

Clearly, you haven't heard that several nations got all their visa privileges revoked, early in
this administration, for no particular reason. So, Iran, Libya, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan,
all think your reassurances are empty.

Sudan is off that list now, never having done anything to go ONTO it.
The 'officially designated' bludgeon has been wielded many times, and even China,
on the Huawei-and-Iran situation, has been blindsided, because that 'designation' is
a hard-driven... whim. It's nothing but a whim of one official.

Some cover language has been put up, regarding 'identity management' and 'information-sharing',
but that's just a way to add in more officials, with more ... whims. They can all say NO.

And the elephant in the room, is the trade war; clearly, the US hasn't been a stable trading partner.

 

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 09:48:54 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:

On 2019/10/08 6:31 a.m., upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On 8 Oct 2019 05:28:57 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions

Adobe is shutting down service for users in Venezuela
in order to comply with a U.S. executive order. This
is not the first time something like this has happened.
It's foolish and short-sighted for the Trump govt. to
behave this way, because it sends the message that if
one places their operational reliance on a U.S. based
supplier, they can be summarily shutoff and damaged,
without recourse; it's safer to use non-U.S. products.

A few comments on Slashdot:

Better yet, don't use US products at all. If the US wants
to be xenophobic, controlling dicks, then everyone in the
world should shun them and see how far they get as a
totally isolated nation.

My thoughts exactly. Why would I do business with the US if
some orange cheeto can suddenly interfere and screw me over?

It is nice that someone is the US also notices this situation.

I have tried to avoid being too depending on US products since the
Cold War COCOM years.

During a few recent decades, everything went well, but for two years I
have been again careful and trying to avoid US (and recently UK due to
brexit), products since you do not know which product are export
embargoed next week or suffering from huge duties.

Well, there are always Chinese or Russian products... (ducking).

Using products from unstable countries like the US, Russia or China is
a political risk.

Fortunately, some countries are good in copying, so you may find a
second source .

John :-#(#

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 12:05:53 PM UTC-4, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:04:35 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions

Adobe is shutting down service for users in Venezuela
in order to comply with a U.S. executive order. This
is not the first time something like this has happened.
It's foolish and short-sighted for the Trump govt. to
behave this way, because it sends the message that if
one places their operational reliance on a U.S. based
supplier, they can be summarily shutoff and damaged,
without recourse; it's safer to use non-U.S. products.

Ummm- don't let yourself be manipulated by the ultra left wing press and stupid articles almost always written by ridiculously unqualified people. This article was written by a ditz head nerd who doesn't know anything about geopolitics.

Nobody doing business with an American business has to worry about a thing as long as their country has not been officially designated a national security threat to the United States. I mean seriously!

Well that's not true. If you are doing any business with America and
doing business with Iran, you're going to be nailed to the wall. Which
is why the EU has been unsuccessful in trying to circumvent Trump's
sanctions against Iran.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 1:27:09 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 07:37:15 -0700, bulegoge wrote:

Trump is doing the right thing here. Iran is a rogue state

I beg to differ. The Iranians are constantly portrayed as such in the
Western media but that doesn't make it so. Iran has several enemies in
the ME and must be allowed to defend itself just as all its neighbours
are. Stop meddling in Iran's internal politics; foster good relations
with it and they'll be the firm friends with us that they'd really
ideally love to be.

ROFL

Sure, radical muslims that want to kill the infidel, that hang gays,
that kill dissidents, that shout death to America are gonna be our
friends. Might as well kiss up to Hitler. Eventually they will
probably get the ass whooping they have been itching for since 1979.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 2:49:41 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Whoey Louie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:20:43 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

Whatever you think about that, right or wrong, it's trivial
compared to what Trump has done with Iran. Not only has ...

Trump is doing the right thing here.

What!? Trump was unhappy the agreement allowed Iran to start
thinking about nuclear weapons on 10 years, despite its taking
away Iran's nuclear material and reinstating inspections, so he
killed the deal, so they can start right away? That's good!?

Yes, 10 years goes by pretty fast, and inspections are useless with
countries that have hidden facilities.

And with the new agreement that Trump says is coming, those
inspections will be super trumptastic and most excellent, right? No
hidden facility issues either? Why would any
Trump renege on one the US made just a few years ago?

Since Iran was already violating the agreement in multiple ways,

The UN inspectors say otherwise. And if that was true, then obviously
the correct course would have to been to confront Iran and show the world,
show the other six countries that were party to agreement, that Iran was
in violation. Instead, the US violated it, another first, courtesy of
the orange clown.



which

Obama supporters choose to ignore, and since NK would do the same, why
would we make an agreement with them or any dictatorship?

Say what? Trumps says he's ready and eager to make a deal with both of
them! And one of them, KJU, he's in love with. He came home from that
one sham summit and proclaimed that he trusts KJU, he's sure he's denuclearizing
and that the threat from NK nukes is now over. He should have been
impeached for that alone.

The Trumptards never cease to amaze.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:20:43 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

Whatever you think about that, right or wrong, it's trivial
compared to what Trump has done with Iran. Not only has ...

Trump is doing the right thing here.

What!? Trump was unhappy the agreement allowed Iran to start
thinking about nuclear weapons on 10 years, despite its taking
away Iran's nuclear material and reinstating inspections, so he
killed the deal, so they can start right away? That's good!?

Yes, 10 years goes by pretty fast, and inspections are useless with
countries that have hidden facilities.

Yes, how very logical, renege on a deal because it only lasts another ten
years. Call my silly, but it seems better to worry about the ten year
part in say 8 years. And if inspections are useless, then how is the new wonderful
agreement that Trump says he's going to negotiate, going to be enforced?
You've admitted that the real goal is 'regime change", even after the
abysmal record of not only failure but disasterous, far worse outcomes
that we've seen from the previous failed attempts.

Trumptards never cease to amaze.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 8/10/19 11:04 pm, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions

Adobe is shutting down service for users in Venezuela
in order to comply with a U.S. executive order. This
is not the first time something like this has happened.
It's foolish and short-sighted for the Trump govt. to
behave this way, because it sends the message that if
one places their operational reliance on a U.S. based
supplier, they can be summarily shutoff and damaged,
without recourse; it's safer to use non-U.S. products.

I agree in principle, but in this case, 45 has done Venezuela a massive
favour.

It's always safer to use products from anyone but Adobe.

CH

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:44:54 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

So I will infer you think it was ok to apply these
pressures to SA. Just checking to see if this is
just another "orange man bad" thing

Well, there's certainly enough bad orange man things
to go around. But I'm against SaS, and not being able
to own critical items, free and clear. Go purchase a
product, should be yours to use without interference,
even if you're a bad guy. I continue to own my Altium
CAD product, even if I stop buying maintenance updates.
I own older copies of Adobe and MS office software, so
I'm free from making their monthly payments. But I am
worried about what's going to happen in the future.

Which SaS are you talking about???

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=SaS

--

Rick C.

- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 10:37:21 AM UTC-4, bule...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

Trump is doing the right thing here. Iran is a rogue state and trump is tired of wars where we shed blood and spend money. This is how you effect needed change without going to war. , Bolton, Romney, Kristol, all of those gop folks are itching to drop bombs

Iran is a rogue state that was NOT on the road to nuclear arms any time soon... until we released them from the treaty by breaking it ourselves. Now they are back to full swing enrichment of uranium. One of the things I learned about enriching nuclear fuel for weapons is that as you achieve higher and higher enrichment levels, the work required to enrich further is less and less. It's like the size of the rocket as you reduce the size of the payload. It is much better than proportional. So by letting Iran enrich like crazy now, we are getting them very, very close to "breakout".

--

Rick C.

+ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:18:39 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

So I will infer you think it was ok to apply these
pressures to SA. Just checking to see if this is
just another "orange man bad" thing

Well, there's certainly enough bad orange man things
to go around. But I'm against SaS, and not being able
to own critical items, free and clear. Go purchase a
product, should be yours to use without interference,
even if you're a bad guy. I continue to own my Altium
CAD product, even if I stop buying maintenance updates.
I own older copies of Adobe and MS office software, so
I'm free from making their monthly payments. But I am
worried about what's going to happen in the future.

People foolishly prefer subscription deals. They used to buy VCRs and
now they rent DVRs. Setting the VCR clock was such a big challenge.

They rent DVRs because that is the only solution when you have cable. That's one big reason why I like Netflix and Hulu. I watch when I want and what I want and never have to worry about setting recordings or how many I've saved or any other bother.

As Chauncey Gardner said, "I like to watch".

--

Rick C.

-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

Lardassed Louie <lardytard4@optonline.net> wrote in
news:d9e0bbc2-eb28-4901-8e00-66b349570411@googlegroups.com:

That's one big reason why I like Netflix and Hulu. I watch when
I want and what I want and never have to worry about setting
recordings or how many I've saved or any other bother.

I DL the movie file or TV episode file. That way, I can watch it
any time, and the quality is four times better than the rehashed crap
they stream.

If you get it on Amazon Prime, you also have it forever.

The difference is quality. The Amazon file is touted as high res,
but you get two channel stereo and downres'd video.

The files I DL are form bluray rips at like 35GB per movie, then
they format that out with various audio at about 2 to 5 GB.

A far far better viewing and listening experience.

 

Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:38a608c3-0ce4-
465b-b23a-db1bd6c25eef@googlegroups.com:

As Chauncey Gardner said, "I like to watch".

I can guarantee that went right over his head.

One must keep one's garden in good order. He doesn't do gardens.

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:46:07 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 10:37:21 AM UTC-4, bule...@columbus.rr.com wrote:

Trump is doing the right thing here. Iran is a rogue state and trump is tired of wars where we shed blood and spend money. This is how you effect needed change without going to war. , Bolton, Romney, Kristol, all of those gop folks are itching to drop bombs

Iran is a rogue state that was NOT on the road to nuclear arms any time soon...

At least as far as the UN inspectors could tell, with a crappy inspection
agreement. It's very possible Iran had hidden sites, they've done it
before.



until we released them from the treaty by breaking it ourselves. Now they are back to full swing enrichment of uranium. One of the things I learned about enriching nuclear fuel for weapons is that as you achieve higher and higher enrichment levels, the work required to enrich further is less and less. It's like the size of the rocket as you reduce the size of the payload. It is much better than proportional. So by letting Iran enrich like crazy now, we are getting them very, very close to "breakout".

--

Rick C.

I agree. The deal Obama/Kerry reached wasn't a good one. But it was
a lot better than nothing. And when the US reneges, then why should Iran,
NK or anyone else make another deal? I would have stuck with the deal,
but done everything possible to make sure the Iranians were not cheating.
If caught cheating, then it would have been a whole new ballgame and we
would have had the other countries on our side.

i don't know which argument is the stupidest from Trump and the trumpets:


1 - We had to renege because it was only good for another ten years.

2 - We had to renege because the Iranians can't be trusted. (yet Trump
says he is eager to make a new deal, so how can they be trusted with that?)

3 - Look! Look! iran is enriching again, I told you they were bad!
(Well, Trump reneged and sanctioned them, what did he expect?)


Trump started down this path without any thought to an end game, how it
will play out, what the possibilities are. He just thinks he can push
them and it will work. He's learned nothing from our naivety with Iraq,
Afghanistan, Libya..... And he demands not only that they stop nuke
development, but also that they stop missile development, end support
for Hezbollah, rebels in Yemen, Syria.... He demands they become Sweden.
Good luck with that. He;s already essentially committed an act of war
against them, by not only cutting off US trade, but by using the might
of the US to force most companies around the world to do the same.
What would the US reaction be to that? If some foreign power choked us,
while demanding we stop developing arms, do this, do that, end support
for Israel, and it caused 20% unemployment, 10% GDP drop, high inflation,
what would we consider it?

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:49:12 PM UTC-4, Rick C wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 11:18:39 AM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

So I will infer you think it was ok to apply these
pressures to SA. Just checking to see if this is
just another "orange man bad" thing

Well, there's certainly enough bad orange man things
to go around. But I'm against SaS, and not being able
to own critical items, free and clear. Go purchase a
product, should be yours to use without interference,
even if you're a bad guy. I continue to own my Altium
CAD product, even if I stop buying maintenance updates.
I own older copies of Adobe and MS office software, so
I'm free from making their monthly payments. But I am
worried about what's going to happen in the future.

People foolishly prefer subscription deals. They used to buy VCRs and
now they rent DVRs. Setting the VCR clock was such a big challenge.

They rent DVRs because that is the only solution when you have cable.

That's not true. Tivo and similar DVRs will work with most, if not all
cable systems. They use a cable card, which you get from the cable
company. I have it, costs $3 a month for the card, instead of $10 to
rent their crappy DVR. IDK how anyone can put up with watching cable
or TV today without a DVR.


That's one big reason why I like Netflix and Hulu. I watch when I want and what I want and never have to worry about setting recordings or how many I've saved or any other bother.

As Chauncey Gardner said, "I like to watch".

--

Rick C.

-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[gray_wolf]

On 10/8/2019 11:48 AM, John Robertson wrote:

On 2019/10/08 6:31 a.m., upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On 8 Oct 2019 05:28:57 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions


Adobe is shutting down service for users in Venezuela
in order to comply with a U.S. executive order.  This
is not the first time something like this has happened.
It's foolish and short-sighted for the Trump govt. to
behave this way, because it sends the message that if
one places their operational reliance on a U.S. based
supplier, they can be summarily shutoff and damaged,
without recourse; it's safer to use non-U.S. products.

A few comments on Slashdot:

Better yet, don't use US products at all. If the US wants
to be xenophobic, controlling dicks, then everyone in the
world should shun them and see how far they get as a
totally isolated nation.

My thoughts exactly. Why would I do business with the US if
some orange cheeto can suddenly interfere and screw me over?

It is nice that someone is the US also notices this situation.

I have tried to avoid being too depending on US products since the
Cold War COCOM years.

During a few recent decades, everything went well, but for two years I
have been again careful and trying to avoid US (and recently UK due to
brexit), products since you do not know which product are export
embargoed next week or suffering from huge duties.

Well, there are always Chinese or Russian products... (ducking).

John :-#(#

Does Russia produce any worthwhile apps other than Kaspersky?

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-10-09, Rick C <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 9:44:54 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

So I will infer you think it was ok to apply these
pressures to SA. Just checking to see if this is
just another "orange man bad" thing

Well, there's certainly enough bad orange man things
to go around. But I'm against SaS, and not being able
to own critical items, free and clear. Go purchase a
product, should be yours to use without interference,
even if you're a bad guy. I continue to own my Altium
CAD product, even if I stop buying maintenance updates.
I own older copies of Adobe and MS office software, so
I'm free from making their monthly payments. But I am
worried about what's going to happen in the future.

Which SaS are you talking about???

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=SaS

I think he means SaaS.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

 

On Tue, 08 Oct 2019 23:26:57 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 09:48:54 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com
wrote:

On 2019/10/08 6:31 a.m., upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:
On 8 Oct 2019 05:28:57 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com
wrote:

Winfield Hill wrote...

https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/7/20904030/adobe-venezuela-photoshop-behance-us-sanctions

Adobe is shutting down service for users in Venezuela
in order to comply with a U.S. executive order. This
is not the first time something like this has happened.
It's foolish and short-sighted for the Trump govt. to
behave this way, because it sends the message that if
one places their operational reliance on a U.S. based
supplier, they can be summarily shutoff and damaged,
without recourse; it's safer to use non-U.S. products.

A few comments on Slashdot:

Better yet, don't use US products at all. If the US wants
to be xenophobic, controlling dicks, then everyone in the
world should shun them and see how far they get as a
totally isolated nation.

My thoughts exactly. Why would I do business with the US if
some orange cheeto can suddenly interfere and screw me over?

It is nice that someone is the US also notices this situation.

I have tried to avoid being too depending on US products since the
Cold War COCOM years.

During a few recent decades, everything went well, but for two years I
have been again careful and trying to avoid US (and recently UK due to
brexit), products since you do not know which product are export
embargoed next week or suffering from huge duties.

Well, there are always Chinese or Russian products... (ducking).

Using products from unstable countries like the US, Russia or China is
a political risk.

Fortunately, some countries are good in copying, so you may find a
second source .

In the 1970/80's in the Soviet Union, they made their own
implementations of some IBM mainframes as well as some PDP-11
minicomputers. The same binary programs could be used on the original
US computer and on the SU ,copy computers.

In East Germany, they made a copy of Intel 8086.

These days there is frequently stories of manufacturing sites in China
in which they make products for their Western clients while the client
representatives are on site. However, there apparently are more or
less secret night shift, which makes the same products, but lapelled
with some local trade mark

 

[Winfield Hill]

Jasen Betts wrote...

I think he means SaaS.

Thanks.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

On Tuesday, October 8, 2019 at 8:35:37 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

bulegoge@columbus.rr.com wrote...

Would you have felt the same if similar tactics were
used against apparteid SA?

It's basically a terrible policy approach. Consider,
Trump pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal, against
the wishes of most of the rest of the world. Now he
is ramping up punishments to companies, etc., in the
EU if they ignore his Iran edicts. He has activated
a new tool to create mayhem, his favorite activity.


--
Thanks,
- Win

I thought the Iran deal was very unhelpful, essentially
putting Iran on the fast track for nukes and ICBMs. But
I was particularly appalled at the way it was dishonestly
portrayed, then unlawfully evaded the constitutional
requirement for ratification by 2/3rds of the Senate.

But 2/3rds of the Senate were not going to approve the treaty,
so Mr. Obama just called it a 'deal' instead, unilaterally
committing the country to an unfavorable deal he concocted
in secret, without the country's consent. That's unlawful.
And he misprepresented the terms, and linked numerous undisclosed
side agreements. That's not how a representative republic is
supposed to work.


I dunno if Mr. Trump's sanctions will have the desired effect,
but I'm hopeful sanctions will be better than what was previously
essentially a green light + loads of money to make it happen.

Cheers,
James Arthur