OT: e-waste

[nanicoar]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:56:29 -0700, ggherold waxed lyrical:

On Monday, April 28, 2014 12:32:23 PM UTC-4, nanicoar wrote:
On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:12:44 -0700, etpm waxed lyrical:



On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:26:33 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com

wrote:



SNIP

The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an

angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.

SNIP

What exactly is in a magnetron that is toxic?

Thanks,

Eric



Beryllium oxide for one.



--

Nos

An urban legend?
http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/2003/August/msg00536.html

George H.

I think that guy is confusing his 'trons. The magnetron isn't a vacuum
tube like he seems to talk about.

I don't have a first hand account of what they are made of. An IR
spectrometer might tell for sure, but those things are sold for like 15
000€ for 1 500€ worth of manufacturing.

--
Nos

 

On Monday, April 28, 2014 3:43:55 PM UTC-4, nanicoar wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:56:29 -0700, ggherold waxed lyrical:
snip..
Beryllium oxide for one.


An urban legend?

http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/2003/August/msg00536.html



George H.

I think that guy is confusing his 'trons. The magnetron isn't a vacuum
tube like he seems to talk about.

OK.. just my first hit.. there's this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zev8Ws4P1Y
which states that the ceramic bits are Be-Oxide.

George H.

I don't have a first hand account of what they are made of. An IR

spectrometer might tell for sure, but those things are sold for like 15

000 EURO for 1 500 EURO worth of manufacturing.



--

Nos

 

[nanicoar]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:27:11 -0400, Michael Black waxed lyrical:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, N_Cook wrote:

On 28/04/2014 08:26, nanicoar wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 17:41:04 +0100, N_Cook waxed lyrical:

Anyone seen clever alternative uses for CRT computer monitor cases or
other uses for e-waste stuff, converted to completely different
functional and saleable stuff?

I was impressed with this recent UK TV documentary
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/kevins-supersized-salvage/episode-
guide
Interesting mixture of engineers , designers and artists. My
favourites were the bird-boxes, amazing what people paid for them.
I'll have to research the meltable plastic waste , via shredding , to
3D printer feedstock.
Whether viewable off-internet , I've no idea. But if its anything
like my ISP / Google recently. Try to go to google.com and get
redirected, via reading my IP, to google.co.uk, recently has been
redirecting to google.be and google.ie and won't let you go to
google.uk

CRTs usually have a whole bunch of easily accessible magnet wire (high
purity copper, emaneled) taped up in a loop around the frame.

Microwave ovens have MOT transformers and high-voltage caps. CV^2, so
they pack a lot of punch. The MOT high-voltage part is grounded to the
chassis, so it's totally lethal if not handled with great mindfulness.
They can be made into high-current transformers with an angle grinder.
The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an
angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.

Refrigerators and air conditioners have compressors which put out up
towards 30 bar, compared to the 8 bar of your normal shop air. They
are filled with gaseous refrigerant which needs to be burned at high
temperature (e.g. arc furnance made from a MOT) or brought to an AC
service shop. When burned, hydrogen flouride (HF) is usually formed.
This is lethal too.
These compressors also make good roughing vacuum pumps. Reportedly two
in series will bring the pressure down to 1 torr. This may or may not
be enough for sputtering. It's more than enough for CO2 lasers.

T5 fluorescent tubes can be reporposed too. The white coating scrapes
off but doesn't dissolve. They contain mercury so use disposable latex
gloves and don't touch your face while handling them.

Laptop batteries contain rechargable cells. These can usually be
reconditioned through a variety of ways.


I'm currently educating myself in these arts further. It seems like
time well spent.



Yes anyone can recycle copper or aluminium , but finding an alternative
repurposed use for the other subparts that otherwise gets burnt or
dumped is a bit more clever

That's some of the problem. There are now plenty of programs to collect
"e-waste", but I'm not sure I trust them. Something is more valuable as
is, or with minimal destruction, but I fear a lot of these collections
are about skimming off the most valuable (ie things that can easily be
identified like recent computers), and then crushing the rest for their
metal value.

I suspect the groups don't have the skills to notice that Radio Shack
model 200 as something that a collector might want. Or that that "old"
computer still has value to some of us.

In other words, I bet there is lots going to "e-waste" that I could find
use for, either outright, or with a bit of repair. I don't need the
latest and greatest. And of course, every time I've found something in
the garbage and stripped useful parts, what remained is in a much more
potent state, scrap metal in that pile, plastic in that pile, and it
goes to recycling rather than garbage.

When this came up before, someone pointed out that it may really be
about keeping things out of the used market. That would certainly
explain why some pizza chain here is offering a free slice of pizza if
you bring in a tablet or cellphone or digital camera. I find it hard to
believe that tablets are already scrap, but sold on the used marekt,
those things could get more than the price of a slice of pizza.

On the other hand, that change is also accepting inkjet cartridges, and
AC adapters, things that have less value. It's easy to fined both, one
might as well trade those in for the pizza slice.

I wouldn't have a GPS except people decided what they had was no longer
useful. But instead off sending them to "e-waste recycling", they sold
them at garage sales (a nice Garmin that doesn't do maps, only five
dollars) or gave to the Rotary Club to sell at their "garage sale" last
year (a TomTom One that doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it,
unless the battery was supposed to have long life, only ten dollars). I
got a blu-ray player because someone tossed it, I have LCD monitors
because people tossed them (the first one worked fine as is, later finds
needed some new electrolytic capacitors). It seems a shame that I,
someone who can make use of such things, find it harder to find such
things while a ll kinds of neat stuff goes to "e-waste recycling" where
it likely doesn't see a second life.

Michael
Hi Michael,

Inspired by a random redirect when visiting hackaday.com today I hopped
on my bike and went out looking for e-waste to build a high-power CO2
laser out of. I didn't find a microwave oven, but in a temporarily placed
dumpster in a parking lot I did find old CRT TVs, and 10 - 15 meters of
pressure hose that someone had apparently bought and never used. It's
mine now! It's actually perfect for when I get a hold of a fridge
compressor. - A serendipitous start to my project.

I tried to be professional about it, wearing disposable latex gloves and
putting the cover back on the TV I gutted. No one said a thing. When I
found the hose I had to convince myself that it really was someone's
trash that was my treasure.

Very strange for a pizza parlor to get into the scrap business. Sounds
quite counter intuitive. Old tablets could live a perfect second life in
anyone's home with just the right app, such as a remote control for the
home theater. People used to pay 500€ for much bulkier devices that did
nothing but home theatre control.

I hope those old smarphones and tablets get shipped to developing
countries and give the poor access to the internet. If that is what is
happening then all is easily forgiven.


--
Nos

 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:26:33 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com>
wrote:

<SNIP>

The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an
angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.

<SNIP>
What exactly is in a magnetron that is toxic?
Thanks,
Eric

 

[nanicoar]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:48:08 +0000, Baron waxed lyrical:

nanicoar scribbled thus:


The magnetron isn't a vacuum tube like he seems to talk about.

I think you will find that it is a vacuum tube.

....You're right. I was picturing a device where the walls are insulators
and not conductors and assumed the dude in question did the same.

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?


--
Nos

 

[Michael Black]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, N_Cook wrote:

On 28/04/2014 08:26, nanicoar wrote:
On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 17:41:04 +0100, N_Cook waxed lyrical:

Anyone seen clever alternative uses for CRT computer monitor cases or
other uses for e-waste stuff, converted to completely different
functional and saleable stuff?

I was impressed with this recent UK TV documentary
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/kevins-supersized-salvage/episode-
guide
Interesting mixture of engineers , designers and artists. My favourites
were the bird-boxes, amazing what people paid for them.
I'll have to research the meltable plastic waste , via shredding , to 3D
printer feedstock.
Whether viewable off-internet , I've no idea. But if its anything like
my ISP / Google recently. Try to go to google.com and get redirected,
via reading my IP, to google.co.uk, recently has been redirecting to
google.be and google.ie and won't let you go to google.uk

CRTs usually have a whole bunch of easily accessible magnet wire (high
purity copper, emaneled) taped up in a loop around the frame.

Microwave ovens have MOT transformers and high-voltage caps. CV^2, so
they pack a lot of punch. The MOT high-voltage part is grounded to the
chassis, so it's totally lethal if not handled with great mindfulness.
They can be made into high-current transformers with an angle grinder.
The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an
angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.

Refrigerators and air conditioners have compressors which put out up
towards 30 bar, compared to the 8 bar of your normal shop air. They are
filled with gaseous refrigerant which needs to be burned at high
temperature (e.g. arc furnance made from a MOT) or brought to an AC
service shop. When burned, hydrogen flouride (HF) is usually formed. This
is lethal too.
These compressors also make good roughing vacuum pumps. Reportedly two in
series will bring the pressure down to 1 torr. This may or may not be
enough for sputtering. It's more than enough for CO2 lasers.

T5 fluorescent tubes can be reporposed too. The white coating scrapes off
but doesn't dissolve. They contain mercury so use disposable latex gloves
and don't touch your face while handling them.

Laptop batteries contain rechargable cells. These can usually be
reconditioned through a variety of ways.


I'm currently educating myself in these arts further. It seems like time
well spent.



Yes anyone can recycle copper or aluminium , but finding an alternative
repurposed use for the other subparts that otherwise gets burnt or dumped is
a bit more clever

That's some of the problem. There are now plenty of programs to collect
"e-waste", but I'm not sure I trust them. Something is more valuable as
is, or with minimal destruction, but I fear a lot of these collections are
about skimming off the most valuable (ie things that can easily be
identified like recent computers), and then crushing the rest for their
metal value.

I suspect the groups don't have the skills to notice that Radio Shack
model 200 as something that a collector might want. Or that that "old"
computer still has value to some of us.

In other words, I bet there is lots going to "e-waste" that I could find
use for, either outright, or with a bit of repair. I don't need the
latest and greatest. And of course, every time I've found something in
the garbage and stripped useful parts, what remained is in a much more
potent state, scrap metal in that pile, plastic in that pile, and it goes
to recycling rather than garbage.

When this came up before, someone pointed out that it may really be about
keeping things out of the used market. That would certainly explain why
some pizza chain here is offering a free slice of pizza if you bring in a
tablet or cellphone or digital camera. I find it hard to believe that
tablets are already scrap, but sold on the used marekt, those things could
get more than the price of a slice of pizza.

On the other hand, that change is also accepting inkjet cartridges, and AC
adapters, things that have less value. It's easy to fined both, one might
as well trade those in for the pizza slice.

I wouldn't have a GPS except people decided what they had was no longer
useful. But instead off sending them to "e-waste recycling", they sold
them at garage sales (a nice Garmin that doesn't do maps, only five
dollars) or gave to the Rotary Club to sell at their "garage sale" last
year (a TomTom One that doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it,
unless the battery was supposed to have long life, only ten dollars). I
got a blu-ray player because someone tossed it, I have LCD monitors
because people tossed them (the first one worked fine as is, later finds
needed some new electrolytic capacitors). It seems a shame that I,
someone who can make use of such things, find it harder to find such things
while a ll kinds of neat stuff goes to "e-waste recycling" where it likely
doesn't see a second life.

Michael

 

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:32:23 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:12:44 -0700, etpm waxed lyrical:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:26:33 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com
wrote:

SNIP
The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an
angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.
SNIP
What exactly is in a magnetron that is toxic?
Thanks,
Eric

Beryllium oxide for one.

That is definitely toxic if ground up and inhaled. Doesn't cause
cancer but may cause bad lung problems. I'll be careful not to break
up the insulators when I take apart my next magnetron.
Eric

 

[Baron]

nanicoar scribbled thus:

The magnetron isn't a vacuum
tube like he seems to talk about.

I think you will find that it is a vacuum tube.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[josephkk]

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 16:32:23 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:12:44 -0700, etpm waxed lyrical:

On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:26:33 +0000 (UTC), nanicoar <ceriel@gmail.com
wrote:

SNIP
The magnetrons have highly toxic parts, so breaking those up with an
angle grinder will make you die of cancer in a week.
SNIP
What exactly is in a magnetron that is toxic?
Thanks,
Eric

Beryllium oxide for one.

Maybe. There is conflicting issues, for one BeO is expensive and many
other ceramics (such as Al2O3) will do the job just fine. Microwave ovens
are made dirt cheap and don't like any expensive materials in any parts.

?-)

 

[josephkk]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 13:11:04 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014, William Sommerwerck wrote:

A "jug" usually has a handle. A "bottle" rarely does.

But the bigger the bottle, the more likely it needs a handle to carry it.

Certainly 1l bottles of juice will tend to not have a handle, while 2l
might, and a larger size would. Same plastic used in each.

There was one project in Popular Electronics in the sixties where someone
put speakers in a pair of "milk jugs". Not really great, but useful for a
utilitarian speaker, protect the speaker and improve the sound a tad.

Michael

A really great speaker that they did was the mellow monster in the late
1950s. It is big though, about 34" wide by 42" tall and 24" front to
back. At that it only took an 8" driver. It would be half again those
dimensions scaled up for a 12" driver.

?-)