OT: Covid-19 personal protection ideas, and related

[Fox's Mercantile]

And then, you have this.
Where I live, I'm surrounded by fuckwits that think that since
they believe in Jesus, they're immune to this stuff.

So they refuse to do anything to prevent the spread of the
disease. Because, you know, it only affect heathens.

I hope they all get bone cancer.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 19/03/20 11:20, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
> OK, Guys and Gals - time to put a few facts on the table, if you will have them:

Facts? Let's have some links to what you are stating. Surely that's not
too much to ask.
> a) Nothing short of total isolation will stop COVID19, and then only if that total isolation extends for considerably more than the two-week incubation period. Times bandied about by 'the experts' are long enough to push up against the vaccine development time-line.

Even total isolation won't stop COVID-19 if there are asymptomatic
carriers. Unless, of course, you are proposing we live out the rest of
our time as hermits. So your argument is nonsense as well as spurious.
See my reply to (c).

> b) Social isolation, hand santizers and any other palliative measures are not intended to stop the virus, but only to flatten the infection curve such that the health systems are able to cope with it.

I suppose a posting full of junk will have one correct statement in it.

> c) Nothing short of an effective vaccine will actually 'stop' the disease, and that is no less than a year away

Bullshit. There are many compounds, already used as medicinal agents in
other conditions, which in early testing appear to have antiviral
efficacy against coronavirus. It's about time medical science grabbed
the bull by the horns and started throwing every compound we have
against viruses which have no vaccine, while we try to develop one.
Don't forget that there is no usefully effective vaccine against HIV,
but the virus has been rendered much less of a threat by a mixture of
antiviral chemicals. We really should be doing this with new viruses
which appear out of the blue, and perhaps with all viruses which might
be considered a threat to human health in future. A vaccine is a year
away; we should therefore try anything which can treat this virus while
we are waiting for it.

> d) There are anti-virals, but unlike antibiotics, they are not very effective and come with lots of baggage (side-effects).

See above. If you are dying from Covid-19, side-effects are the least of
your worries. And how do you know they are "not very effective" if they
have yet to be tested in a properly run trial?

> e) The virus is able to live for hours to weeks on ordinary clothing, ordinary surfaces and so forth. It is able to live as an airborne virus for a bit longer depending on ambient conditions. NOTE: "Weeks" is speculative, with the longest absolutely proven survival being ~80 hours to-date. Please do not time it with a stop-watch and think that one is safe 'just because' some period of time went by.

Weeks? Stop spreading FUD. "New coronavirus stable for hours on
surfaces"
<https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/new-coronavirus-stable-hours-surfaces>
At worse, it was a few days:
"The scientists found that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus
2 (SARS-CoV-2) was detectable in aerosols for up to three hours, up to
four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three
days on plastic and stainless steel."

> f) Which brings us to masks and goggles. Against "sneezed droplets", has been suggested. Said "sneezed droplets" can (and will) still get onto the wearer of these devices, including clothing, ears, hair, and so forth.

If you are wearing a mask and cough, most of the particles will be
caught by the mask. If you have no mask, see comment under (g) to get an
idea of how many particles could be spread. As I pointed out in my first
reply, particles of the size in (g) will get caught by a good mask.
People need to be shown how to use a decent (N95) mask, although
anything is better than nothing at helping stop spreading particles.

> g) These "sneezed droplets" will still get onto shoes, surfaces remain as micro particles in the air, become bound to dust, and so forth.

We are talking about coughing, not sneezing, with COVID-19. There
appears to be some difference between them in dissemination of droplets:
"Published data have suggested that sneezing may produce as many as 40
000 droplets between 0.5–12 μm in diameter that may be expelled at
speeds up to 100 m/s, whereas coughing may produce up to 3000 droplet
nuclei, about the same number as talking for five minutes. Despite the
variety in size, large droplets comprise most of the total volume of
expelled respiratory droplets. Further data on the behaviour of droplet
dispersion in naturally generated aerosols are needed."
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143281//>

Note: "Despite the variety in size, *large droplets* (my emphasis)
comprise most of the total volume of expelled respiratory droplets."

I could not find a reasonable reference to the time expelled particles
stay suspended in air.

> So, unless one undresses into a laundry bag on one outside stoop, wears sanitizer-saturated booties and gloves on the way to an immediate shower when home, "and so forth", those masks and goggles are about as effective as nailing Jell-O. Some material may remain on the board, but most of it does not.

Nonsense. A typical flippant response from a troll. I've provided a link
to an good source on the use of masks (WHO)

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, and Children of All Ages - this is
the first time mankind has been confronted with a dangerous disease with
a long (and silent) incubation period, a relatively high infection rate
*together* with a great deal more understanding of how infections work.
Every response created prior to COVID19 is instantaneously obsolete - as
just a glance out a window, or 5 minutes listening to the news will make
clear

More flippant trolling for a very serious subject.

> Try not to give bad advice conveying a false sense of security or effectiveness. Worst of all, if you believe it yourself and are giving it sincerely. Ignorance is curable, stupidity is not. Learn something before opining. Please.

You should try following your own advice, troll. I have provided
references from recognised sources. Where are yours?

--

Jeff

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 19/03/20 14:08, pfjw@aol.com wrote:
> https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-myths.html

You sure know how to find the best links (not...).

I'd already commented about this website in my first reply to you. I
urge those who think this troll knows what he is talking about to look
through the list of staff here
<https://www.livescience.com/62824-about-us.html> and see how many of
these "medical" experts are qualified to write about "virus myths".

--

Jeff

 

[pfjw@aol.com]

Common sense isn't.

One cannot fix stupid.

Jeff, thank you for setting such a clear example as one who is entirely unencumbered by the thought process.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA.

 

[Jeff Layman]

On 20/03/20 01:30, pfjw@aol.com wrote:

Common sense isn't.

One cannot fix stupid.

Jeff, thank you for setting such a clear example as one who is entirely unencumbered by the thought process.

You could learn something here:
<https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56>

But you won't, because you are a troll. I'm not wasting my time on you
any longer.

Killfiled (well, you get the prize - the booby prize, that is - as the
first person I've killfiled in this NG)

--

Jeff

 

[legg]

On Thu, 19 Mar 2020 07:54:26 -0000 (UTC), gregz <zekor@comcast.net>
wrote:

<snip>

A mask helps prevent you from touching your mouth area with finger.

Check out 3D printing of face masks.

These are design files developed by health care
professionals, to include eye shields.

Cooperative computing at its finest.

RL

 

On Thursday, 19 March 2020 11:20:32 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

> Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, and Children of All Ages - this is the first time mankind has been confronted with a dangerous disease with a long (and silent) incubation period, a relatively high infection rate *together* with a great deal more understanding of how infections work. Every response created prior to COVID19 is instantaneously obsolete

you actually think no-one planned for a pandemic for which we have no medical cure? C'mon.

 

[N_Cook]

Silly easy tip that emerged from Scottish Gov TV piece today.
Have a bottle of sanitizer , or as that is Scotch Mist around here, a
small bottle of methylated/denatured spirit , hidden but easy access
near the front door but on the outside of yur house. Everyone who enters
uses some on their hands before touching the door and entering.




--
Monthly public talks on science topics, Hampshire , England
<http://diverse.4mg.com/scicaf.htm>

 

[N_Cook]

On 17/03/2020 11:57, N_Cook wrote:

Any other idea?

As I was never anything to do with medical electronics, are hospitals
likely to have a store of non-working ventilators,for parts-doning, that
a group of volunteer retired electronic repairers could volunteer to try
to get going again?

Someone must have read this thread
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52094193>

Coronavirus: Tech firm Bloom Energy fixes broken US ventilators
By David Molloy Technology reporter

30 March 2020

A Californian company that usually makes green-energy fuel cells is due
to deliver 170 repaired ventilators to Los Angeles later on Monday after
transforming its manufacturing process.

An engineer at Bloom Energy downloaded the service manual and taught
himself how to dismantle and rebuild them in a day, the Los Angeles
Times reported. ...

--
Monthly public talks on science topics, Hampshire , England
<http://diverse.4mg.com/scicaf.htm>

 

[John-Del]

On Tuesday, March 31, 2020 at 9:04:14 AM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:

On 17/03/2020 11:57, N_Cook wrote:
Any other idea?

As I was never anything to do with medical electronics, are hospitals
likely to have a store of non-working ventilators,for parts-doning, that
a group of volunteer retired electronic repairers could volunteer to try
to get going again?

Someone must have read this thread
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52094193

Coronavirus: Tech firm Bloom Energy fixes broken US ventilators
By David Molloy Technology reporter

30 March 2020

A Californian company that usually makes green-energy fuel cells is due
to deliver 170 repaired ventilators to Los Angeles later on Monday after
transforming its manufacturing process.

An engineer at Bloom Energy downloaded the service manual and taught
himself how to dismantle and rebuild them in a day, the Los Angeles
Times reported. ...

--
Monthly public talks on science topics, Hampshire , England
http://diverse.4mg.com/scicaf.htm

Elsewhere in California, personal injury lawyers are boning up on the technical aspects of ventilators in case one or more of the repaired life saving ventilators should fail.

In the U.S., good deeds rarely go unpunished.

 

[Ron D.]

Bloom has been asked to repair about 200 Ventilators that have been sitting in a warehouse in my state. So, obsolete ventilators sitting somewhere is possible.

==

We heard that there are disinfecting gizmos being made.

I wonder if these ideas would work:

1. Germicidal lamp. e.g. from an HVAC system.
2. Hydrogen peroxide, say 17%. Delivery methods: nebulizer, hand spray

Both are hazardous. I built a UV-C light source >500 W probably for work. neat design. The lamp was about 8" x 8" made from a snaked 1 cm tube. power source was a very large neon lamp transformer. Eye and skin damage possible.

I use 17% Hydrogen peroxide at home to clean up blood stains. It works a lot better than 3%. Your skin will turn white. baking soda is use for accidental skin contact.

Can the longer wavelength UV lamp be used for detection? Somebody gave be a UV lamp that could be used for body fluid detection such as urine.

re-using any disposable mask has to really be a problem.

I was watching a Korean doctor talking about mask usage and he said you should wear one. He also said that if the virus gets trapped on the outside of the mask, breathing raises the temperature and humidity and may kill the virus.

The message of not wearing the masks is to make more available for health care workers and discourage hording.

I've used the 3M 8511 at home, so I have an almost full box. I also have a half-face cartridge respirator.

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 17/3/20 10:57 pm, N_Cook wrote:

With no hand-sanitizing gel available anywhere, use methylated spirits
or isopropal alchohol, decanted into a small bottle , to reduce any fire
hazard, when used in public places. My attempts at gelling meths just
ended up with snot/slime.

20% water, 80% alcohol is just as effective as 100% alcohol, but doesn't
evaporate as fast.

Or use some glycerol.

Or use some Aloe Vera, if you can find some growing (we have lots). Peel
the fleshy leaves and the inside is transparent goop you can mash. It's
a good moisturiser, too.

Converting a one-way valve-type dust mask , with strong cords around the
back of the head.

Most methods for making anti-viral masks DO NOT WORK. There are some
good studies showing what does work, and how well. This is one example:

<https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/best-materials-make-diy-face-mask-virus/>

As I was never anything to do with medical electronics, are hospitals
likely to have a store of non-working ventilators,for parts-doning, that
a group of volunteer retired electronic repairers could volunteer to try
to get going again?

Dunno, but Medtronic has opened the design documents for its certified
products:

<https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/30/medtronic-is-sharing-its-portable-ventilator-design-specifications-and-code-for-free-to-all/>

<https://www.medtronic.com/us-en/e/open-files.html>

Clifford Heath