OT: card storage

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
You can buy boxes in various form factors from places like Uline. If
it isn't worth a 50-cent box to store neatly, maybe it should be
tossed?
I tried that route. You end up with *lots* of "wasted volume". :
Just pilling boards into four "large" boxes resulted in about
4 cubic feet of "boards". I suspect that would double if each
board was packed in something akin to retail packaging.

E.g., I store my "spare" keyboards in "keyboard boxes" and
they easily take up twice their minimal volume.

I use "Totino's Frozen Pizza" boxes to store keyboards. You can

Huh? Oblong pizzas?? :> (sorry, I just can't picture this :< )

stand about eight in each box. I pick them up at the grocery store for
free. Some of the other frozen food and packaged lunchmeat boxes are
great for storing PC boards & spare drives. The boxes for three, one
gallon bottles of water is good for CD & DVD drives, or other 5.25"
drives.

I've "standardized" on "Vacutainer" boxes (vacutainers are those
vacuum-filled, rubber-stoppered, "test tubes" that are used when
blood is drawn). They are ~18x12x6 so they fit nicely on my
(18 inch deep) shelves. They are big enough that I can store
"enough" in each -- yet not *too* big to end up with lots of
"empty space".

E.g., I have a box for SCSI "1" cables, "2", "wide", VHDCI,
DB25, VGA, DVI, 10Base2, "RJ45", etc.; boxes for screwdrivers,
chisels, drills, etc.; CD-ROMs, DVD writers, speech synthesizers,
barcode readers, PDAs, signature pads, etc.; development boards
(SBC's), hookup wire scraps, etc.; access points, routers, network
fabric, network appliances, etc.

[I think there are ~130 of these boxes currently]

Empty 55 gallon steel drums are great for all those extra hard drive
cables, and other cables from dead PCs. When you get tired of digging
through them, they are already ready to haul to the recyclers. ;-)

I like the cables sorted. Probably 25% of my "storage" is
dedicated to cables. I suspect there is more *real* "value"
there than in any of the other stuff -- it seems like I
don't go more than a day without needing to dig out some
sort of cable! Especially all of the odd-ball "specials"
common for USB :-/

I suspect most boards are such commodity items that a 50c
box would be a huge (relative) investment -- in cardboard. :
(OTOH, if you just toss those commodity cards out, the cost
of acquiring a new one WHEN YOU NEED IT is ridiculously
expensive -- travel time, opportunity costs, etc.)

I'll see how the "sort into four categories" approach works.
If I can find boxes that are ~30% smaller, then I can, perhaps,
toss 30% of the boards (and *hope* I toss the ones that I
won't need NEXT WEEK! :> )

I don't throw out any good boards. You never know when you'll need
one you can't replace. A few years ago I repaired a prototype IBM PC
for a retired IBM EE. The old man was in tears when he discovered that
I not only had a FDC board, but it was a genuine IBM board.

I don't throw *out* anything. Everything gets recycled.

I don't save "old" stuff anymore -- unless I need it to
support an old design, etc. E.g., I have only one ISA bus
PC -- but, it can support two *full* length cards.

OTOH, I got bit yesterday as I needed a PS2 keyboard and
didn't have a "spare" (I only keep a few spare keyboards
and most of those are "specials") so I had to borrow one from
one of my servers. :<

I really like these little *tiny* keyboards (about 12" wide?)
for those machines that I run headless -- yet "need" a keyboard
to be able to power it down "locally" (i.e., "typing blind").

[I keep a portable *7* inch LCD monitor for those times when
I need to connect a display to a headless machine... requires
a bit of squinting to read but a lot nicer than having to
lug a larger monitor around!]

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:
You can buy boxes in various form factors from places like Uline. If
it isn't worth a 50-cent box to store neatly, maybe it should be
tossed?
I tried that route. You end up with *lots* of "wasted volume". :
Just pilling boards into four "large" boxes resulted in about
4 cubic feet of "boards". I suspect that would double if each
board was packed in something akin to retail packaging.

E.g., I store my "spare" keyboards in "keyboard boxes" and
they easily take up twice their minimal volume.

I use "Totino's Frozen Pizza" boxes to store keyboards. You can

Huh? Oblong pizzas?? :> (sorry, I just can't picture this :< )

Rectangular boxes the ship 10 pizzas in. 10" wide, 20" long and 7"
deep. Some come with lids, while others are just open trays.

stand about eight in each box. I pick them up at the grocery store for
free. Some of the other frozen food and packaged lunchmeat boxes are
great for storing PC boards & spare drives. The boxes for three, one
gallon bottles of water is good for CD & DVD drives, or other 5.25"
drives.

I've "standardized" on "Vacutainer" boxes (vacutainers are those
vacuum-filled, rubber-stoppered, "test tubes" that are used when
blood is drawn). They are ~18x12x6 so they fit nicely on my
(18 inch deep) shelves. They are big enough that I can store
"enough" in each -- yet not *too* big to end up with lots of
"empty space".

The water boxes are 6.25" wide, 18.5" long and 10" deep.

E.g., I have a box for SCSI "1" cables, "2", "wide", VHDCI,
DB25, VGA, DVI, 10Base2, "RJ45", etc.; boxes for screwdrivers,
chisels, drills, etc.; CD-ROMs, DVD writers, speech synthesizers,
barcode readers, PDAs, signature pads, etc.; development boards
(SBC's), hookup wire scraps, etc.; access points, routers, network
fabric, network appliances, etc.

[I think there are ~130 of these boxes currently]

I'll see your 130, and raise you over 500 Banana Boxes. (16" wide,
20" long and 9" deep They are used for storage without shelves in one
of my small shop buildings. They are in three groups, stacked eight
high. They are two stacks deep along the outside walls, and a center
isle three deep down the center of the building. That leaves two long
three feet wide isles. This is where things are stored and sorted
before being recycled or dismantled. There are bulk components,
computer, test equipment and tooling stored there. A few complete
telephone systems & spare parts that I was using to support some radio
stations.

That was where I did most of my work before I became disabled. I
would grab some old equipment and decide if it was worth repairing. If
it was, I would look for the parts I needed, or just make notes and box
it up until I got the parts. Others were like the old WE or SC 2500
series five line phones. (1A2 type) I had a steady stream of bad phones
show up. The ones in good shape were repaired and boxed up. The rest
were scrapped as fast as I could. In 10 years I scrapped over 500 of
them. I still have some spare phones and 400 series cards. They are
going to a local tire business for spares as I find them. They help
local Veterans, so it's only fair to return that help.

Empty 55 gallon steel drums are great for all those extra hard drive
cables, and other cables from dead PCs. When you get tired of digging
through them, they are already ready to haul to the recyclers. ;-)

I like the cables sorted. Probably 25% of my "storage" is
dedicated to cables. I suspect there is more *real* "value"
there than in any of the other stuff -- it seems like I
don't go more than a day without needing to dig out some
sort of cable! Especially all of the odd-ball "specials"
common for USB :-/

The barrel is for things that I have way too many of. Like 25 foot
Centronics Printer cables or 50 foot RS232 cables. I will grab one of
those to make a custom cable for someone. I just dug out a 25 foot
Centronics Printer cable a few days ago to make a long Serial Printer
cable for an IOLine vinyl cutter for a friend to cut lettering. No one
stocks them anymore, around here. They probably never did stock
anything over six feet.

I have a stack of boxes full of hard and floppy drive cables. Others
are full of various power cables. About 500 AC adapters sorted by
voltage, or application. (EG: HP Printer power supplies)

I suspect most boards are such commodity items that a 50c
box would be a huge (relative) investment -- in cardboard. :
(OTOH, if you just toss those commodity cards out, the cost
of acquiring a new one WHEN YOU NEED IT is ridiculously
expensive -- travel time, opportunity costs, etc.)

I'll see how the "sort into four categories" approach works.
If I can find boxes that are ~30% smaller, then I can, perhaps,
toss 30% of the boards (and *hope* I toss the ones that I
won't need NEXT WEEK! :> )

I don't throw out any good boards. You never know when you'll need
one you can't replace. A few years ago I repaired a prototype IBM PC
for a retired IBM EE. The old man was in tears when he discovered that
I not only had a FDC board, but it was a genuine IBM board.

I don't throw *out* anything. Everything gets recycled.

I can go one better. there is a local program to teach people to do
assembly work. At times they want scrap electronics to use to teach
soldering, and rework.

I don't save "old" stuff anymore -- unless I need it to
support an old design, etc. E.g., I have only one ISA bus
PC -- but, it can support two *full* length cards.

OTOH, I got bit yesterday as I needed a PS2 keyboard and
didn't have a "spare" (I only keep a few spare keyboards
and most of those are "specials") so I had to borrow one from
one of my servers. :

I'm 'down' to about 200 keyboards and about 130 mice right now.

I also have a couple 3' cubed shipping containers full of Commodore
computers.

I really like these little *tiny* keyboards (about 12" wide?)
for those machines that I run headless -- yet "need" a keyboard
to be able to power it down "locally" (i.e., "typing blind").

[I keep a portable *7* inch LCD monitor for those times when
I need to connect a display to a headless machine... requires
a bit of squinting to read but a lot nicer than having to
lug a larger monitor around!]

You can't use VNC software to shut it down from another computer?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
You can buy boxes in various form factors from places like Uline. If
it isn't worth a 50-cent box to store neatly, maybe it should be
tossed?
I tried that route. You end up with *lots* of "wasted volume". :
Just pilling boards into four "large" boxes resulted in about
4 cubic feet of "boards". I suspect that would double if each
board was packed in something akin to retail packaging.

E.g., I store my "spare" keyboards in "keyboard boxes" and
they easily take up twice their minimal volume.
I use "Totino's Frozen Pizza" boxes to store keyboards. You can
Huh? Oblong pizzas?? :> (sorry, I just can't picture this :< )

Rectangular boxes the ship 10 pizzas in. 10" wide, 20" long and 7"

Ahhh! --------------------------^^^^^^^^

I was trying to imagine how the box for a *single* pizza
could possibly be useful <:-/

deep. Some come with lids, while others are just open trays.

stand about eight in each box. I pick them up at the grocery store for
free. Some of the other frozen food and packaged lunchmeat boxes are
great for storing PC boards & spare drives. The boxes for three, one
gallon bottles of water is good for CD & DVD drives, or other 5.25"
drives.
I've "standardized" on "Vacutainer" boxes (vacutainers are those
vacuum-filled, rubber-stoppered, "test tubes" that are used when
blood is drawn). They are ~18x12x6 so they fit nicely on my
(18 inch deep) shelves. They are big enough that I can store
"enough" in each -- yet not *too* big to end up with lots of
"empty space".

The water boxes are 6.25" wide, 18.5" long and 10" deep.

OK, different form factor (narrower opening, deeper).

E.g., I have a box for SCSI "1" cables, "2", "wide", VHDCI,
DB25, VGA, DVI, 10Base2, "RJ45", etc.; boxes for screwdrivers,
chisels, drills, etc.; CD-ROMs, DVD writers, speech synthesizers,
barcode readers, PDAs, signature pads, etc.; development boards
(SBC's), hookup wire scraps, etc.; access points, routers, network
fabric, network appliances, etc.

[I think there are ~130 of these boxes currently]

I'll see your 130, and raise you over 500 Banana Boxes. (16" wide,
20" long and 9" deep They are used for storage without shelves in one
of my small shop buildings. They are in three groups, stacked eight

--------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If I had a "separate space" for work related stuff, the
gravitational field would probably be highly distorted in its
vicinity! :> (i.e., I learned not to have too much
"storage space" lest you end up storing too much *in* it! :> )

high. They are two stacks deep along the outside walls, and a center
isle three deep down the center of the building. That leaves two long
three feet wide isles. This is where things are stored and sorted
before being recycled or dismantled. There are bulk components,

Ah, I only keep what *I* will (personally) use.

computer, test equipment and tooling stored there. A few complete
telephone systems & spare parts that I was using to support some radio
stations.

That was where I did most of my work before I became disabled. I
would grab some old equipment and decide if it was worth repairing. If
it was, I would look for the parts I needed, or just make notes and box
it up until I got the parts. Others were like the old WE or SC 2500
series five line phones. (1A2 type) I had a steady stream of bad phones
show up. The ones in good shape were repaired and boxed up. The rest
were scrapped as fast as I could. In 10 years I scrapped over 500 of

(sigh) There was a time when I was looking for WE 500/2500 sets.

them. I still have some spare phones and 400 series cards. They are
going to a local tire business for spares as I find them. They help
local Veterans, so it's only fair to return that help.

Empty 55 gallon steel drums are great for all those extra hard drive
cables, and other cables from dead PCs. When you get tired of digging
through them, they are already ready to haul to the recyclers. ;-)
I like the cables sorted. Probably 25% of my "storage" is
dedicated to cables. I suspect there is more *real* "value"
there than in any of the other stuff -- it seems like I
don't go more than a day without needing to dig out some
sort of cable! Especially all of the odd-ball "specials"
common for USB :-/

The barrel is for things that I have way too many of. Like 25 foot
Centronics Printer cables or 50 foot RS232 cables. I will grab one of
those to make a custom cable for someone. I just dug out a 25 foot
Centronics Printer cable a few days ago to make a long Serial Printer
cable for an IOLine vinyl cutter for a friend to cut lettering. No one
stocks them anymore, around here. They probably never did stock
anything over six feet.

I hang onto cables because I don't want to have to *make* any!
Just too damn much work for what it's worth, usually.

So, I keep a good assortment of various types of cables in
various lengths. The only ones I have in short supply are
the nice 12" wide SCSI cables. :<

I have a stack of boxes full of hard and floppy drive cables. Others
are full of various power cables. About 500 AC adapters sorted by
voltage, or application. (EG: HP Printer power supplies)

I have two of the vacutainer boxes set aside for "unmatched" wall
warts/bricks. Anything that *needs* a wall wart/brick has that
stored with it.

OTOH, there are times when I need a standalone power supply
for some bit of kit. If I am lucky, I'll have a supply
in one of the boxes *with* the right connector. If not,
I'll find a suitable supply and cut the existing connector
off and replace it with another.

(I presently have to do that with a pair of external HD
enclosures that are missing their power packs)

I don't save "old" stuff anymore -- unless I need it to
support an old design, etc. E.g., I have only one ISA bus
PC -- but, it can support two *full* length cards.

OTOH, I got bit yesterday as I needed a PS2 keyboard and
didn't have a "spare" (I only keep a few spare keyboards
and most of those are "specials") so I had to borrow one from
one of my servers. :

I'm 'down' to about 200 keyboards and about 130 mice right now.

I typically only keep one of each type of keyboard as a spare.
Recently, however, my spare PS2 keyboard was used to replace
one that developed a flakey spacebar. Unfortunately, I
didn't think to replace the *spare* at the time! :<

Yesterday, I needed to power down one of my headless servers
and discovered that it's keyboard had given up the ghost.
So, I had to resort to powering it down remotely.

I also have a couple 3' cubed shipping containers full of Commodore
computers.

I really like these little *tiny* keyboards (about 12" wide?)
for those machines that I run headless -- yet "need" a keyboard
to be able to power it down "locally" (i.e., "typing blind").

[I keep a portable *7* inch LCD monitor for those times when
I need to connect a display to a headless machine... requires
a bit of squinting to read but a lot nicer than having to
lug a larger monitor around!]

You can't use VNC software to shut it down from another computer?

Not all of my machines run GUI's.

I can telnet/ssh to any of them and shut down that way.
But, that means having to turn *on* a second computer
*just* to telnet to the *first*!

If, instead, I leave a keyboard attached to each, I can simply
type (without *seeing* what I'm typing):

root
<password>
shutdown -p now (or whatever)

wait a few seconds for confirmation that the box *is*
shutting down...

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
You can buy boxes in various form factors from places like Uline. If
it isn't worth a 50-cent box to store neatly, maybe it should be
tossed?
I tried that route. You end up with *lots* of "wasted volume". :
Just pilling boards into four "large" boxes resulted in about
4 cubic feet of "boards". I suspect that would double if each
board was packed in something akin to retail packaging.

E.g., I store my "spare" keyboards in "keyboard boxes" and
they easily take up twice their minimal volume.
I use "Totino's Frozen Pizza" boxes to store keyboards. You can
Huh? Oblong pizzas?? :> (sorry, I just can't picture this :< )

Rectangular boxes the ship 10 pizzas in. 10" wide, 20" long and 7"

Ahhh! --------------------------^^^^^^^^

I was trying to imagine how the box for a *single* pizza
could possibly be useful <:-/

deep. Some come with lids, while others are just open trays.

stand about eight in each box. I pick them up at the grocery store for
free. Some of the other frozen food and packaged lunchmeat boxes are
great for storing PC boards & spare drives. The boxes for three, one
gallon bottles of water is good for CD & DVD drives, or other 5.25"
drives.
I've "standardized" on "Vacutainer" boxes (vacutainers are those
vacuum-filled, rubber-stoppered, "test tubes" that are used when
blood is drawn). They are ~18x12x6 so they fit nicely on my
(18 inch deep) shelves. They are big enough that I can store
"enough" in each -- yet not *too* big to end up with lots of
"empty space".

The water boxes are 6.25" wide, 18.5" long and 10" deep.

OK, different form factor (narrower opening, deeper).

E.g., I have a box for SCSI "1" cables, "2", "wide", VHDCI,
DB25, VGA, DVI, 10Base2, "RJ45", etc.; boxes for screwdrivers,
chisels, drills, etc.; CD-ROMs, DVD writers, speech synthesizers,
barcode readers, PDAs, signature pads, etc.; development boards
(SBC's), hookup wire scraps, etc.; access points, routers, network
fabric, network appliances, etc.

[I think there are ~130 of these boxes currently]

I'll see your 130, and raise you over 500 Banana Boxes. (16" wide,
20" long and 9" deep They are used for storage without shelves in one
of my small shop buildings. They are in three groups, stacked eight

--------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If I had a "separate space" for work related stuff, the
gravitational field would probably be highly distorted in its
vicinity! :> (i.e., I learned not to have too much
"storage space" lest you end up storing too much *in* it! :> )

I've had as many as 50 boxes leave, or get emptied in a single
month. Some sold at hamfests, others scrapped for parts & recyecled.

high. They are two stacks deep along the outside walls, and a center
isle three deep down the center of the building. That leaves two long
three feet wide isles. This is where things are stored and sorted
before being recycled or dismantled. There are bulk components,

Ah, I only keep what *I* will (personally) use.

Bulk is anything that won't fit in a single drawer in one of the ol;d
50 drawer 'Akro Mils' parts

Something like these, but five drawers wide & ten tall:
<http://www.akro-mils.com/image_library/view.asp?id=2636>

computer, test equipment and tooling stored there. A few complete
telephone systems & spare parts that I was using to support some radio
stations.

That was where I did most of my work before I became disabled. I
would grab some old equipment and decide if it was worth repairing. If
it was, I would look for the parts I needed, or just make notes and box
it up until I got the parts. Others were like the old WE or SC 2500
series five line phones. (1A2 type) I had a steady stream of bad phones
show up. The ones in good shape were repaired and boxed up. The rest
were scrapped as fast as I could. In 10 years I scrapped over 500 of

(sigh) There was a time when I was looking for WE 500/2500 sets.

them. I still have some spare phones and 400 series cards. They are
going to a local tire business for spares as I find them. They help
local Veterans, so it's only fair to return that help.

Empty 55 gallon steel drums are great for all those extra hard drive
cables, and other cables from dead PCs. When you get tired of digging
through them, they are already ready to haul to the recyclers. ;-)
I like the cables sorted. Probably 25% of my "storage" is
dedicated to cables. I suspect there is more *real* "value"
there than in any of the other stuff -- it seems like I
don't go more than a day without needing to dig out some
sort of cable! Especially all of the odd-ball "specials"
common for USB :-/

The barrel is for things that I have way too many of. Like 25 foot
Centronics Printer cables or 50 foot RS232 cables. I will grab one of
those to make a custom cable for someone. I just dug out a 25 foot
Centronics Printer cable a few days ago to make a long Serial Printer
cable for an IOLine vinyl cutter for a friend to cut lettering. No one
stocks them anymore, around here. They probably never did stock
anything over six feet.

I hang onto cables because I don't want to have to *make* any!
Just too damn much work for what it's worth, usually.

So, I keep a good assortment of various types of cables in
various lengths. The only ones I have in short supply are
the nice 12" wide SCSI cables. :

I have a stack of boxes full of hard and floppy drive cables. Others
are full of various power cables. About 500 AC adapters sorted by
voltage, or application. (EG: HP Printer power supplies)

I have two of the vacutainer boxes set aside for "unmatched" wall
warts/bricks. Anything that *needs* a wall wart/brick has that
stored with it.

OTOH, there are times when I need a standalone power supply
for some bit of kit. If I am lucky, I'll have a supply
in one of the boxes *with* the right connector. If not,
I'll find a suitable supply and cut the existing connector
off and replace it with another.

(I presently have to do that with a pair of external HD
enclosures that are missing their power packs)

I don't save "old" stuff anymore -- unless I need it to
support an old design, etc. E.g., I have only one ISA bus
PC -- but, it can support two *full* length cards.

OTOH, I got bit yesterday as I needed a PS2 keyboard and
didn't have a "spare" (I only keep a few spare keyboards
and most of those are "specials") so I had to borrow one from
one of my servers. :

I'm 'down' to about 200 keyboards and about 130 mice right now.

I typically only keep one of each type of keyboard as a spare.
Recently, however, my spare PS2 keyboard was used to replace
one that developed a flakey spacebar. Unfortunately, I
didn't think to replace the *spare* at the time! :

I give away a lot of used computers & parts, so any that work go into
boxes. There are times when I don't have any to spare.

Yesterday, I needed to power down one of my headless servers
and discovered that it's keyboard had given up the ghost.
So, I had to resort to powering it down remotely.

I also have a couple 3' cubed shipping containers full of Commodore
computers.

I really like these little *tiny* keyboards (about 12" wide?)
for those machines that I run headless -- yet "need" a keyboard
to be able to power it down "locally" (i.e., "typing blind").

[I keep a portable *7* inch LCD monitor for those times when
I need to connect a display to a headless machine... requires
a bit of squinting to read but a lot nicer than having to
lug a larger monitor around!]

You can't use VNC software to shut it down from another computer?

Not all of my machines run GUI's.

I can telnet/ssh to any of them and shut down that way.
But, that means having to turn *on* a second computer
*just* to telnet to the *first*!

If, instead, I leave a keyboard attached to each, I can simply
type (without *seeing* what I'm typing):

root
password
shutdown -p now (or whatever)

wait a few seconds for confirmation that the box *is*
shutting down...

While waiting with baited breath and a fire extinguisher? ;-)


I had to shut down a Novell server I'd built, years ago. It had a
keyboard & monitor, but the video board had died. I had to just turn
the power off, since it wasn't responding to the keyboard.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

[attributions elided]

high. They are two stacks deep along the outside walls, and a center
isle three deep down the center of the building. That leaves two long
three feet wide isles. This is where things are stored and sorted
before being recycled or dismantled. There are bulk components,
Ah, I only keep what *I* will (personally) use.

Bulk is anything that won't fit in a single drawer in one of the ol;d
50 drawer 'Akro Mils' parts

I keep those mounted on one wall. I think there are currently
14 60-drawer cabinets. But, lately, I have been moving "small things"
into old pill bottles, etc. as wall space is at a premium, here.
I may run HVAC into the little (100 sq ft?) store room off the
garage and convert that into usable storage space. But, too many
other "more pressing" projects before that...

Something like these, but five drawers wide & ten tall:
http://www.akro-mils.com/image_library/view.asp?id=2636

Mine are 6 wide and 10 tall. Same general idea. I passed up
two "revolving racks" of drawer units (each 4 sided, 6 ft tall
made of those little drawers) simply because I didn't have the
space to store them. :< I'm trying *not* to store little
parts any more as i can just have Digikey drop a package on
my doorstep in a few days (instead of tying up space *anticipating*
future needs)

OTOH, I got bit yesterday as I needed a PS2 keyboard and
didn't have a "spare" (I only keep a few spare keyboards
and most of those are "specials") so I had to borrow one from
one of my servers. :
I'm 'down' to about 200 keyboards and about 130 mice right now.
I typically only keep one of each type of keyboard as a spare.
Recently, however, my spare PS2 keyboard was used to replace
one that developed a flakey spacebar. Unfortunately, I
didn't think to replace the *spare* at the time! :

I give away a lot of used computers & parts, so any that work go into
boxes. There are times when I don't have any to spare.

Yes, there is a group here that does that on a large scale
(probably a thousand PC's yearly) so I bring any "recyclable"
items to them. Stuff like this turns up far too frequently
to set aside places to *store* it!

(OTOH, 13W3 KVM's tend to be "keepers" when I do come across them!)

I can telnet/ssh to any of them and shut down that way.
But, that means having to turn *on* a second computer
*just* to telnet to the *first*!

If, instead, I leave a keyboard attached to each, I can simply
type (without *seeing* what I'm typing):

root
password
shutdown -p now (or whatever)

wait a few seconds for confirmation that the box *is*
shutting down...

While waiting with baited breath and a fire extinguisher? ;-)

No, most systems (especially if they don't have "MS" anywhere
in their name!) can handle even abrupt power cycles. The
only frustrating part is if the keyboard had been "bumped"
in the past N days so that the console wasn't sitting
at the "login: " prompt -- since I can't verify that visually.
In that case, I have no way of knowing that my login was
unsuccessful! So, if the machine doesn't start shutting down
when I expect it to, then I have to go back through a more
systematic set of keystrokes to *ensure* I am at a "login: "
prompt, etc.

<shrug> And, if push comes to shove, take the 7" LCD out of
it's case and plug that in. (I have learned to leave a video
cable dangling out of the back of every headless machine here
so I don't have to try to crawl behind it when I *need* to
plug in a monitor! :> Painful lessons learned through
experience...)

I had to shut down a Novell server I'd built, years ago. It had a
keyboard & monitor, but the video board had died. I had to just turn
the power off, since it wasn't responding to the keyboard.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Michael,

Bulk is anything that won't fit in a single drawer in one of the old
50 drawer 'Akro Mils' parts

I keep those mounted on one wall. I think there are currently
14 60-drawer cabinets. But, lately, I have been moving "small things"
into old pill bottles, etc. as wall space is at a premium, here.
I may run HVAC into the little (100 sq ft?) store room off the
garage and convert that into usable storage space. But, too many
other "more pressing" projects before that...

I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage
rack. I added heavy casters and covered the back side with these:
<http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=41949&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=>

That way I can roll it around the storeroom, or turn it around to get
the hardware stored in the open bins.

Something like these, but five drawers wide & ten tall:
http://www.akro-mils.com/image_library/view.asp?id=2636

Mine are 6 wide and 10 tall. Same general idea. I passed up
two "revolving racks" of drawer units (each 4 sided, 6 ft tall
made of those little drawers) simply because I didn't have the
space to store them. :< I'm trying *not* to store little
parts any more as i can just have Digikey drop a package on
my doorstep in a few days (instead of tying up space *anticipating*
future needs)

I had a repair buisness years ago. Why throw out the parts, and buy
more?

I give away a lot of used computers & parts, so any that work go into
boxes. There are times when I don't have any to spare.

Yes, there is a group here that does that on a large scale
(probably a thousand PC's yearly) so I bring any "recyclable"
items to them. Stuff like this turns up far too frequently
to set aside places to *store* it!

Now that I was declared 100% disabled and not allowed to work, it's
just a hobby.

(OTOH, 13W3 KVM's tend to be "keepers" when I do come across them!)

I have several of the Sony versions of those SUN monitors with the
BNC connectors.

wait a few seconds for confirmation that the box *is*
shutting down...

While waiting with baited breath and a fire extinguisher? ;-)

No, most systems (especially if they don't have "MS" anywhere
in their name!) can handle even abrupt power cycles. The
only frustrating part is if the keyboard had been "bumped"
in the past N days so that the console wasn't sitting
at the "login: " prompt -- since I can't verify that visually.
In that case, I have no way of knowing that my login was
unsuccessful! So, if the machine doesn't start shutting down
when I expect it to, then I have to go back through a more
systematic set of keystrokes to *ensure* I am at a "login: "
prompt, etc.

shrug> And, if push comes to shove, take the 7" LCD out of
it's case and plug that in. (I have learned to leave a video
cable dangling out of the back of every headless machine here
so I don't have to try to crawl behind it when I *need* to
plug in a monitor! :> Painful lessons learned through
experience...)

I prefer a monitor switch to switch through the various machines, but
I do have a background in TV Broadcasting.



--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi Michael,
Bulk is anything that won't fit in a single drawer in one of the old
50 drawer 'Akro Mils' parts
I keep those mounted on one wall. I think there are currently
14 60-drawer cabinets. But, lately, I have been moving "small things"
into old pill bottles, etc. as wall space is at a premium, here.
I may run HVAC into the little (100 sq ft?) store room off the
garage and convert that into usable storage space. But, too many
other "more pressing" projects before that...

I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage

Huh? The 9T racks I have seen were basically "open" -- nothing to
hang things off of (besides the tapes' "hooks")

rack. I added heavy casters and covered the back side with these:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=41949&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=

That way I can roll it around the storeroom, or turn it around to get
the hardware stored in the open bins.

Yeah, the key there is "storeroom" :> As I said previously, if I
had a place to dedicate to this stuff, I'd do things differently.
But, with age, I've found I like having less and less "stuff"
around to deal with (though I am still not to the point of
wanting to "live in two rooms" someplace! ;-) Probably NEVER
trim down *that* much!)

Something like these, but five drawers wide & ten tall:
http://www.akro-mils.com/image_library/view.asp?id=2636
Mine are 6 wide and 10 tall. Same general idea. I passed up
two "revolving racks" of drawer units (each 4 sided, 6 ft tall
made of those little drawers) simply because I didn't have the
space to store them. :< I'm trying *not* to store little
parts any more as i can just have Digikey drop a package on
my doorstep in a few days (instead of tying up space *anticipating*
future needs)

I had a repair buisness years ago. Why throw out the parts, and buy
more?

Depends on whether or not you have the space to store them.
My first move (out of college) my "load" was 19,000 pounds.
Amusing considering I was just a college kid, etc. :> (I
think all I had by way of "traditional belongings" was a
bed, a couch, a kitchen table and a refrigerator)

I live in terror of ever having that much "stuff" again.
It would be *so* nice to be one of those guys who can get by
with just a laptop. *ONE* laptop! :>

(OTOH, 13W3 KVM's tend to be "keepers" when I do come across them!)

I have several of the Sony versions of those SUN monitors with the
BNC connectors.

4BNC and 5BNC. Actually, I think finding that sort of KVM would be
even harder than a 13W3! (though you could adapt one with an
appropriate set of cables, etc.)

shrug> And, if push comes to shove, take the 7" LCD out of
it's case and plug that in. (I have learned to leave a video
cable dangling out of the back of every headless machine here
so I don't have to try to crawl behind it when I *need* to
plug in a monitor! :> Painful lessons learned through
experience...)

I prefer a monitor switch to switch through the various machines, but
I do have a background in TV Broadcasting.

I found most KVMs don't like the typical mix of machines that
I have, here. They'd "hang" at inopportune times, etc.

So, for "headed" machines, I usually use monitors with two
or more video inputs and just do the switching in the monitor.
This is a little tedious as I usually run dual-headed on
most machines -- but, can also be a win as I can switch one
monitor to machine A while the other is on B and do two
things at once (with careful planning of screen real estate).

The pisser comes from the keyboards (and mice, if I'm running
a GUI). It is *really* hard to keep track of which keyboard
to type on for which "monitor" (machine) -- especially as
you could have the screens set up as A1+A2, B1+B2, A1+B2 or
B1+A2 (so you never really know *what* you're doing until you
get some feedback from a screen :< )

<shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage

Huh? The 9T racks I have seen were basically "open" -- nothing to
hang things off of (besides the tapes' "hooks")

That's it, in one! I screwed a sheet of scrap 1/4" pegboard to one
side to hold the bins, and stacked the metal framed 50 drawer cabinets
on the other. A narrow piece of angle aluminum was run vertically on
both outside edges to tie them together, and to the frame.

Yeah, the key there is "storeroom" :> As I said previously, if I
had a place to dedicate to this stuff, I'd do things differently.
But, with age, I've found I like having less and less "stuff"
around to deal with (though I am still not to the point of
wanting to "live in two rooms" someplace! ;-) Probably NEVER
trim down *that* much!)

The 'Storeroom' is an old 10' * 10' 'Office' off the back of the
shop, where I store tools & parts to keep them away from 'Visitors' with
sticky fingers. I had planned on opening a small shop when I retired,
but I ended up disabled, instead.

Depends on whether or not you have the space to store them.
My first move (out of college) my "load" was 19,000 pounds.

Heh. I moved over 18,000 pounds when I moved south. I hauled it in
two trips in an old Chevy stepvan.

Amusing considering I was just a college kid, etc. :> (I
think all I had by way of "traditional belongings" was a
bed, a couch, a kitchen table and a refrigerator)

I've had almost a ton of electronic equipment show up at my shop one
day while I was out to lunch. It took me the rest of the day to move it
all from the front door, then into the storeroom.

I live in terror of ever having that much "stuff" again.
It would be *so* nice to be one of those guys who can get by
with just a laptop. *ONE* laptop! :

(OTOH, 13W3 KVM's tend to be "keepers" when I do come across them!)

I have several of the Sony versions of those SUN monitors with the
BNC connectors.

4BNC and 5BNC. Actually, I think finding that sort of KVM would be
even harder than a 13W3! (though you could adapt one with an
appropriate set of cables, etc.)

I prefer a monitor switch to switch through the various machines, but
I do have a background in TV Broadcasting.

I found most KVMs don't like the typical mix of machines that
I have, here. They'd "hang" at inopportune times, etc.

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.

So, for "headed" machines, I usually use monitors with two
or more video inputs and just do the switching in the monitor.
This is a little tedious as I usually run dual-headed on
most machines -- but, can also be a win as I can switch one
monitor to machine A while the other is on B and do two
things at once (with careful planning of screen real estate).

The pisser comes from the keyboards (and mice, if I'm running
a GUI). It is *really* hard to keep track of which keyboard
to type on for which "monitor" (machine) -- especially as
you could have the screens set up as A1+A2, B1+B2, A1+B2 or
B1+A2 (so you never really know *what* you're doing until you
get some feedback from a screen :< )

shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)

You had an ASR33? I started with a pair of Kleinschmidt 60 mA
machines on leased lines. They were replaced with KSR33s, which was
cheaper than adding sound deadening to the radio & TV station building.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage
Huh? The 9T racks I have seen were basically "open" -- nothing to
hang things off of (besides the tapes' "hooks")

That's it, in one! I screwed a sheet of scrap 1/4" pegboard to one
side to hold the bins, and stacked the metal framed 50 drawer cabinets
on the other. A narrow piece of angle aluminum was run vertically on
both outside edges to tie them together, and to the frame.

Ah, OK. Must have been a real b*tch to try to move it!

Yeah, the key there is "storeroom" :> As I said previously, if I
had a place to dedicate to this stuff, I'd do things differently.
But, with age, I've found I like having less and less "stuff"
around to deal with (though I am still not to the point of
wanting to "live in two rooms" someplace! ;-) Probably NEVER
trim down *that* much!)

The 'Storeroom' is an old 10' * 10' 'Office' off the back of the
shop, where I store tools & parts to keep them away from 'Visitors' with
sticky fingers. I had planned on opening a small shop when I retired,
but I ended up disabled, instead.

I'd like a basement -- except it would quickly end up cluttered.
:< With limited space, you think real hard before you *keep*
something. Especially anything sizable! Hence the appeal
of things that can get "stored" *inside* other things. Like
cards installed in a PC (instead of piled in a box!).

I've been slowly scanning the paperwork that I deem worthy
of saving. That will clear up a fair bit of space (volume).

Depends on whether or not you have the space to store them.
My first move (out of college) my "load" was 19,000 pounds.

Heh. I moved over 18,000 pounds when I moved south. I hauled it in
two trips in an old Chevy stepvan.

Now imagine that much stuff when you're "just getting started
in your 'adult' life"! :>

Amusing considering I was just a college kid, etc. :> (I
think all I had by way of "traditional belongings" was a
bed, a couch, a kitchen table and a refrigerator)

I've had almost a ton of electronic equipment show up at my shop one
day while I was out to lunch. It took me the rest of the day to move it
all from the front door, then into the storeroom.

Like odd bits of furniture, best not to let it in the door
to begin with -- as it is hard to get it back *out*, later! :>

I prefer a monitor switch to switch through the various machines, but
I do have a background in TV Broadcasting.
I found most KVMs don't like the typical mix of machines that
I have, here. They'd "hang" at inopportune times, etc.

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.

Ah, OK.

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

The pisser comes from the keyboards (and mice, if I'm running
a GUI). It is *really* hard to keep track of which keyboard
to type on for which "monitor" (machine) -- especially as
you could have the screens set up as A1+A2, B1+B2, A1+B2 or
B1+A2 (so you never really know *what* you're doing until you
get some feedback from a screen :< )

shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)

You had an ASR33?

Yeah, I still have one in the garage. Don't want to scrap
it but *shipping* it anyplace is a real chore. :<

I started with a pair of Kleinschmidt 60 mA
machines on leased lines. They were replaced with KSR33s, which was
cheaper than adding sound deadening to the radio & TV station building.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage
Huh? The 9T racks I have seen were basically "open" -- nothing to
hang things off of (besides the tapes' "hooks")

That's it, in one! I screwed a sheet of scrap 1/4" pegboard to one
side to hold the bins, and stacked the metal framed 50 drawer cabinets
on the other. A narrow piece of angle aluminum was run vertically on
both outside edges to tie them together, and to the frame.

Ah, OK. Must have been a real b*tch to try to move it!

Not really. It was only a single 4' wide frame that I picked up at a
local school board auction for $5. Everyone thought I was crazy for
wasting the $5. ;-)

The 'Storeroom' is an old 10' * 10' 'Office' off the back of the
shop, where I store tools & parts to keep them away from 'Visitors' with
sticky fingers. I had planned on opening a small shop when I retired,
but I ended up disabled, instead.

I'd like a basement -- except it would quickly end up cluttered.

Basements are rare in this part of Florida.

That's why I bought a house with a 1200 Sq' garage, an 18' * 28' shop
building and two 12' * 12' outbuildings. There is also a single bedroom
cottage on the property that's 12' * 24'.

:< With limited space, you think real hard before you *keep*
something. Especially anything sizable! Hence the appeal
of things that can get "stored" *inside* other things. Like
cards installed in a PC (instead of piled in a box!).

I've been slowly scanning the paperwork that I deem worthy
of saving. That will clear up a fair bit of space (volume).

What are you scanning? A lot of manuals are available on sites like
'retrevo.com'. Other sites have free downloads of service manuals &
test equipment manuals, as well.

Depends on whether or not you have the space to store them.
My first move (out of college) my "load" was 19,000 pounds.

Heh. I moved over 18,000 pounds when I moved south. I hauled it in
two trips in an old Chevy stepvan.

Now imagine that much stuff when you're "just getting started
in your 'adult' life"! :

I had more than that when I moved my shop out of my parent's
basement, and all I had was a long wheelbase GMC van.

Amusing considering I was just a college kid, etc. :> (I
think all I had by way of "traditional belongings" was a
bed, a couch, a kitchen table and a refrigerator)

I've had almost a ton of electronic equipment show up at my shop one
day while I was out to lunch. It took me the rest of the day to move it
all from the front door, then into the storeroom.

Like odd bits of furniture, best not to let it in the door
to begin with -- as it is hard to get it back *out*, later! :

It was a complete CAD system, with two color Tektronix terminals, a
huge Tektronix inkjet plotter/w the rasterizer and a small VAX based
computer. Some of the students at the local vocational electronics
school would bring me stuff they didn't want, in exchange for free
access to my technical library and some tutoring. Their teacher would
give them a project to design & build before they graduated, and the
school's collection of databooks was about 25 years out of date.

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.

Ah, OK.

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

Yes, but not enough to convince the bean counters to let them bring
it to market.

The pisser comes from the keyboards (and mice, if I'm running
a GUI). It is *really* hard to keep track of which keyboard
to type on for which "monitor" (machine) -- especially as
you could have the screens set up as A1+A2, B1+B2, A1+B2 or
B1+A2 (so you never really know *what* you're doing until you
get some feedback from a screen :< )

shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)

You had an ASR33?

Yeah, I still have one in the garage. Don't want to scrap
it but *shipping* it anyplace is a real chore. :

Someone on the 'Green Keys' group would love to have it.

I started with a pair of Kleinschmidt 60 mA
machines on leased lines. They were replaced with KSR33s, which was
cheaper than adding sound deadening to the radio & TV station building.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

:< With limited space, you think real hard before you *keep*
something. Especially anything sizable! Hence the appeal
of things that can get "stored" *inside* other things. Like
cards installed in a PC (instead of piled in a box!).

I've been slowly scanning the paperwork that I deem worthy
of saving. That will clear up a fair bit of space (volume).

What are you scanning? A lot of manuals are available on sites like
'retrevo.com'. Other sites have free downloads of service manuals &
test equipment manuals, as well.

These are either documents for old projects that I did
(and didn't have the foresight to save the electronic versions
of those documents at the time -- something I quickly
learned!), tax and business records, etc.

The most tedious are the print manuals that were never
available (publicly) in electronic form. In addition
to the actual *scanning*, there is a lot of work
getting the manuals "disassembled" to the point where
they *can* be scanned (e.g., ripping "perfect binding").

I've got ~5 cu ft of MULTICS manuals that have been
staring me in the face for a while, now... most of
them are printed on "european size" paper (is that
A4?) so it's also a bit "different" to handle.

<shrug>

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.
Ah, OK.

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

Yes, but not enough to convince the bean counters to let them bring
it to market.

I may see if I can hack together a little adapter to fit inside
just such a beast next time I come across one that "feels
right". Doesn't have to be "pretty" -- just functional.
Maybe turn it into a Hackable?

shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)
You had an ASR33?
Yeah, I still have one in the garage. Don't want to scrap
it but *shipping* it anyplace is a real chore. :

Someone on the 'Green Keys' group would love to have it.

Oh, there are lots of folks who would "love to have it"! :>
Problem is, getting it out of here requires considerable
effort on my part to ensure it will "travel well". It's
just not high on my ToDo list (I got rid of another one a few
months ago so I figure I'm already "50% done"! :> )

 

[Paul Carpenter]

In article <hsp8en$p8b$1@speranza.aioe.org>, not.going.to.be@seen.com
says...

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
:< With limited space, you think real hard before you *keep*
something. Especially anything sizable! Hence the appeal
of things that can get "stored" *inside* other things. Like
cards installed in a PC (instead of piled in a box!).

I've been slowly scanning the paperwork that I deem worthy
of saving. That will clear up a fair bit of space (volume).

What are you scanning? A lot of manuals are available on sites like
'retrevo.com'. Other sites have free downloads of service manuals &
test equipment manuals, as well.

These are either documents for old projects that I did
(and didn't have the foresight to save the electronic versions
of those documents at the time -- something I quickly
learned!), tax and business records, etc.

We all have one or two (or several) of these...

The most tedious are the print manuals that were never
available (publicly) in electronic form. In addition
to the actual *scanning*, there is a lot of work
getting the manuals "disassembled" to the point where
they *can* be scanned (e.g., ripping "perfect binding").

I know various place like The British Library, has special research
centres so they can make electronic copies of various documents,
books etc..

Bear in mind they CANNOT rip the bindings or damage some books
many HUNDREDS of years old, so they use special prism like structures
to scan two partially open pages, often in special chambers to
avoid damp, dirt, insects etc.. getting in whilst scanning.

They cannot afford to damage most books as they are even less
obtainable than your old Multics manuals.

I've got ~5 cu ft of MULTICS manuals that have been
staring me in the face for a while, now... most of
them are printed on "european size" paper (is that
A4?) so it's also a bit "different" to handle.

Slight correction ISO standard paper size, used in most of the world
major exception North America.

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.
Ah, OK.

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

Nearest thing is ultra thin clients.

--
Paul Carpenter | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/> PC Services
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/fonts/> Timing Diagram Font
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/> GNU H8 - compiler & Renesas H8/H8S/H8 Tiny
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/> For those web sites you hate

 

[JosephKK]

On Fri, 14 May 2010 17:29:58 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be@seen.com>
wrote:

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I mounted a bunch of them on an old 9-track computer tape storage
Huh? The 9T racks I have seen were basically "open" -- nothing to
hang things off of (besides the tapes' "hooks")

That's it, in one! I screwed a sheet of scrap 1/4" pegboard to one
side to hold the bins, and stacked the metal framed 50 drawer cabinets
on the other. A narrow piece of angle aluminum was run vertically on
both outside edges to tie them together, and to the frame.

Ah, OK. Must have been a real b*tch to try to move it!

Yeah, the key there is "storeroom" :> As I said previously, if I
had a place to dedicate to this stuff, I'd do things differently.
But, with age, I've found I like having less and less "stuff"
around to deal with (though I am still not to the point of
wanting to "live in two rooms" someplace! ;-) Probably NEVER
trim down *that* much!)

The 'Storeroom' is an old 10' * 10' 'Office' off the back of the
shop, where I store tools & parts to keep them away from 'Visitors' with
sticky fingers. I had planned on opening a small shop when I retired,
but I ended up disabled, instead.

I'd like a basement -- except it would quickly end up cluttered.
:< With limited space, you think real hard before you *keep*
something. Especially anything sizable! Hence the appeal
of things that can get "stored" *inside* other things. Like
cards installed in a PC (instead of piled in a box!).

I've been slowly scanning the paperwork that I deem worthy
of saving. That will clear up a fair bit of space (volume).

Depends on whether or not you have the space to store them.
My first move (out of college) my "load" was 19,000 pounds.

Heh. I moved over 18,000 pounds when I moved south. I hauled it in
two trips in an old Chevy stepvan.

Now imagine that much stuff when you're "just getting started
in your 'adult' life"! :

Amusing considering I was just a college kid, etc. :> (I
think all I had by way of "traditional belongings" was a
bed, a couch, a kitchen table and a refrigerator)

I've had almost a ton of electronic equipment show up at my shop one
day while I was out to lunch. It took me the rest of the day to move it
all from the front door, then into the storeroom.

Like odd bits of furniture, best not to let it in the door
to begin with -- as it is hard to get it back *out*, later! :

I prefer a monitor switch to switch through the various machines, but
I do have a background in TV Broadcasting.
I found most KVMs don't like the typical mix of machines that
I have, here. They'd "hang" at inopportune times, etc.

Not a KVM, just a monitor switch. Separate keyboards & mice per
machine.

Ah, OK.

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

It not only has been done, but is still available, mouse included.
But most of such currently are just repurposed laptops. Probably more
user hacks than commercial sales. A great excuse to buy a laptop that is
otherwise relatively CPU underpowered.

The pisser comes from the keyboards (and mice, if I'm running
a GUI). It is *really* hard to keep track of which keyboard
to type on for which "monitor" (machine) -- especially as
you could have the screens set up as A1+A2, B1+B2, A1+B2 or
B1+A2 (so you never really know *what* you're doing until you
get some feedback from a screen :< )

shrug> Life was so much simpler with a Bell 103 and ASR33...
(though considerably more BORING!)

You had an ASR33?

Yeah, I still have one in the garage. Don't want to scrap
it but *shipping* it anyplace is a real chore. :

I started with a pair of Kleinschmidt 60 mA
machines on leased lines. They were replaced with KSR33s, which was
cheaper than adding sound deadening to the radio & TV station building.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:

It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

It not only has been done, but is still available, mouse included.
But most of such currently are just repurposed laptops. Probably more
user hacks than commercial sales. A great excuse to buy a laptop that is
otherwise relatively CPU underpowered.

This is something that *looks* like a laptop but, in
reality, is just the laptop's *screen* with a video
INput and keyboard with a PS/2 or USB OUTput?

Pointers, please?

 

[Paul Keinanen]

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:08:23 -0700, D Yuniskis
<not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

The most tedious are the print manuals that were never
available (publicly) in electronic form. In addition
to the actual *scanning*, there is a lot of work
getting the manuals "disassembled" to the point where
they *can* be scanned (e.g., ripping "perfect binding").

Have you tried photographing those pages using a digital camera ?

This way, the book only needs to be opened to 90 degrees, compared to
180 degrees on an ordinary flat scanner.

A 12 Mpix photograph of the A4 paper will be about 14 pixels/mm.
Compare this to the older CRT computer monitors that had a 0.25 mm
pitch (4 pixels/mm) shadow mask, thus the picture can even be enlarged
on the screen, compared to the original page size.

Of course, the Bayer camera cell will degrade the resolution as well
as the quality of the optics.

 

[JosephKK]

On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:46:14 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be@seen.com>
wrote:

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:
It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.

It not only has been done, but is still available, mouse included.
But most of such currently are just repurposed laptops. Probably more
user hacks than commercial sales. A great excuse to buy a laptop that is
otherwise relatively CPU underpowered.

This is something that *looks* like a laptop but, in
reality, is just the laptop's *screen* with a video
INput and keyboard with a PS/2 or USB OUTput?

Pointers, please?

Not knowing your specific application i suggest using this in your
favorite search engine:

X-terminal device

You could probably find brick-like devices that do what you want.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:46:14 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be@seen.com
wrote:

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:
It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.
It not only has been done, but is still available, mouse included.
But most of such currently are just repurposed laptops. Probably more
user hacks than commercial sales. A great excuse to buy a laptop that is
otherwise relatively CPU underpowered.
This is something that *looks* like a laptop but, in
reality, is just the laptop's *screen* with a video
INput and keyboard with a PS/2 or USB OUTput?

Pointers, please?

Not knowing your specific application i suggest using this in your
favorite search engine:

X-terminal device

You could probably find brick-like devices that do what you want.

No, X Terminals, thin clients, etc. are different beasts entirely.
I have several from NCD, Neoware, HP, etc. (I tend to like
using them because they have very little maintenance overhead)

I want a portable LCD monitor and a portable keyboard.
I want to be able to connect that monitor to any old PC
just like any *other* LCD monitor.
I want to be able to connect that keyboard to that same PC
just like any other keyboard.

Gee, a laptop has an LCD *panel* in it. And a set of keys.
Even laptops that are DOG SLOW have these things!

I.e., a laptop that one is likely to DISCARD (recycle) as being
too slow would make an ideal device to *gut* and convert into
a "portable LCD monitor with attached portable keyboard"
(i.e., no CPU inside).

*That* is what I am asking for.

I can do this with a (*fast*) laptop and a video digitizer
card and some software. But, if I could remove the processor
from the laptop along with 95% of its guts and leave *just*
the LCD panel and keyboard, I could get the same sort of
capabilities by adding enough guts to turn it into *just*
an "LCD display".

This should be possible (as a "hackable") with a small board
installed in place of the laptop's guts. I.e., take the guts
out of an LCD monitor and wire them to the connector for the
LCD *panel* inside the gutted laptop (the keyboard is a
simple thing to hack)

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

D Yuniskis wrote:

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:
On Sun, 16 May 2010 18:46:14 -0700, D Yuniskis <not.going.to.be@seen.com
wrote:

Hi Joseph,

JosephKK wrote:
It's too bad someone hasn't hacked together a laptop that
is *just* a monitor + keyboard! I imagine there would be
a market for such a beast.
It not only has been done, but is still available, mouse included.
But most of such currently are just repurposed laptops. Probably more
user hacks than commercial sales. A great excuse to buy a laptop that is
otherwise relatively CPU underpowered.
This is something that *looks* like a laptop but, in
reality, is just the laptop's *screen* with a video
INput and keyboard with a PS/2 or USB OUTput?

Pointers, please?

Not knowing your specific application i suggest using this in your
favorite search engine:

X-terminal device

You could probably find brick-like devices that do what you want.

No, X Terminals, thin clients, etc. are different beasts entirely.
I have several from NCD, Neoware, HP, etc. (I tend to like
using them because they have very little maintenance overhead)

I want a portable LCD monitor and a portable keyboard.
I want to be able to connect that monitor to any old PC
just like any *other* LCD monitor.
I want to be able to connect that keyboard to that same PC
just like any other keyboard.

Gee, a laptop has an LCD *panel* in it. And a set of keys.
Even laptops that are DOG SLOW have these things!

I.e., a laptop that one is likely to DISCARD (recycle) as being
too slow would make an ideal device to *gut* and convert into
a "portable LCD monitor with attached portable keyboard"
(i.e., no CPU inside).

*That* is what I am asking for.

The problem is that LCD display isn't a monitor. It is mated to the
LCD video interface on the laptop's system board.

The keyboard isn't encoded, it is just a set of raw, matrixed
switches.


<http://www.earthlcd.com/> makes some small SVGA LCD monitors, starting
at 6.4 inches.

<http://store.earthlcd.com/LCD-Products/LCD-Monitors-by-Size>

I can do this with a (*fast*) laptop and a video digitizer
card and some software. But, if I could remove the processor
from the laptop along with 95% of its guts and leave *just*
the LCD panel and keyboard, I could get the same sort of
capabilities by adding enough guts to turn it into *just*
an "LCD display".

This should be possible (as a "hackable") with a small board
installed in place of the laptop's guts. I.e., take the guts
out of an LCD monitor and wire them to the connector for the
LCD *panel* inside the gutted laptop (the keyboard is a
simple thing to hack)

It hasn't come up lately, but for a while someone asked that question
about once a month. Then they would find that it cost more for the
custom elcetronics, than to buy a new monitor.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This is something that *looks* like a laptop but, in
reality, is just the laptop's *screen* with a video
INput and keyboard with a PS/2 or USB OUTput?

Pointers, please?
Not knowing your specific application i suggest using this in your
favorite search engine:

X-terminal device

You could probably find brick-like devices that do what you want.
No, X Terminals, thin clients, etc. are different beasts entirely.
I have several from NCD, Neoware, HP, etc. (I tend to like
using them because they have very little maintenance overhead)

I want a portable LCD monitor and a portable keyboard.
I want to be able to connect that monitor to any old PC
just like any *other* LCD monitor.
I want to be able to connect that keyboard to that same PC
just like any other keyboard.

Gee, a laptop has an LCD *panel* in it. And a set of keys.
Even laptops that are DOG SLOW have these things!

I.e., a laptop that one is likely to DISCARD (recycle) as being
too slow would make an ideal device to *gut* and convert into
a "portable LCD monitor with attached portable keyboard"
(i.e., no CPU inside).

*That* is what I am asking for.

The problem is that LCD display isn't a monitor. It is mated to the
LCD video interface on the laptop's system board.

Correct. But, the LCD *panel* in the laptop is no different from
the LCD *panel* in an LCD monitor. I.e., there is nothing to
prevent it from being used as such.

The keyboard isn't encoded, it is just a set of raw, matrixed
switches.

Keyboard debounce and encode is a trivial task. :>

http://www.earthlcd.com/> makes some small SVGA LCD monitors, starting
at 6.4 inches.

http://store.earthlcd.com/LCD-Products/LCD-Monitors-by-Size

I can do this with a (*fast*) laptop and a video digitizer
card and some software. But, if I could remove the processor
from the laptop along with 95% of its guts and leave *just*
the LCD panel and keyboard, I could get the same sort of
capabilities by adding enough guts to turn it into *just*
an "LCD display".

This should be possible (as a "hackable") with a small board
installed in place of the laptop's guts. I.e., take the guts
out of an LCD monitor and wire them to the connector for the
LCD *panel* inside the gutted laptop (the keyboard is a
simple thing to hack)

It hasn't come up lately, but for a while someone asked that question
about once a month. Then they would find that it cost more for the
custom elcetronics, than to buy a new monitor.

Understood. But I'm not looking for an LCD monitor, per se.
What I want is the portability that the laptop offers for
screen *and* keyboard.

I.e., currently, I carry a 7" portable LCD monitor and a
(generic) PC keyboard to interact with headless machines.
I would much prefer the LCD and keyboard be in one neat little
case -- like a laptop -- so easier to carry and store.

Making a suitable interface (to convert a "laptop LCD + keypad"
into a "portable monitor + keyboard") isn't a real problem. The
bigger problem is finding a suitable laptop on which to do this.
(i.e., so that the design effort for the interface isn't "wasted"
on a "qty one" product). Everyone would have their own special
wants -- namely, that it work with *their* (scrap) laptop
(fitting *their* laptop's keypad and display connections,
fitting *their* laptop's mechanical constraints, etc.)

It would only make sense to do if you had a known supply of
a particular laptop (or netbook, etc.) to use.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Paul,

Paul Keinanen wrote:

On Sun, 16 May 2010 10:08:23 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:

The most tedious are the print manuals that were never
available (publicly) in electronic form. In addition
to the actual *scanning*, there is a lot of work
getting the manuals "disassembled" to the point where
they *can* be scanned (e.g., ripping "perfect binding").

Have you tried photographing those pages using a digital camera ?

It's too labor intensive. You have to arrange for the book
to be held open "enough", even lighting, transfer photos
to PC, convert to TIFF, trim them, import them (in the correct
order) to a PDF, etc.

A lot of time, you end up with crappy image quality "in the
binding edge" as the paper curls and you can't get a clear
view of stuff at that edge, etc.

Instead, I bring the manuals to a print shop and have them
*cut* the binding edge off of the pages. They have large,
electric stack paper cutters (do ~1000 pages at a time
*without* the inevitable skew that a manual/guillotine paper
cutter imparts to the cut!). Then, I can just feed the
"individual pages" through the document feeder (instead of
having to manually flip pages, etc.).

It ends up destroying the original *bound* document (<shrug&gt
but most of the folks who look for this sort of information
would gladly see a paper document "sacrificed" if it makes
that document more readily available (in electronic form).

It's just a hugely BORING activity (tedious?) and demands
large blocks of time to get anything done. So, I don't
rush to "do more of it"! :>

This works for most "A" size manuals. Things with fold-out
pages (e.g., a B size fold-out in a "regular" manual)
have to be processed differently. I have a 12x17 scanner
for larger documents. Anything bigger than that I have to
piece together from partial scans (which gets *really*
time consuming!)

This way, the book only needs to be opened to 90 degrees, compared to
180 degrees on an ordinary flat scanner.

Even that approach won't work for a lot of materials.
E.g., the scanner in the original KRM was deliberately
designed (for obvious reasons!) to be able to scan
a book in this way. With particular care to being
able to bring the camera *deep* into the binding edge
I.e., the scanner glass came right to the edge of the
case over which the book's binding would sit (the 3rd
photo in http://www.kurzweiltech.com/raybio.html is
*just* the scanner)

Yet, it still had problems with some printed materials.
"Perfect" binding sucks :>

A 12 Mpix photograph of the A4 paper will be about 14 pixels/mm.
Compare this to the older CRT computer monitors that had a 0.25 mm
pitch (4 pixels/mm) shadow mask, thus the picture can even be enlarged
on the screen, compared to the original page size.

Of course, the Bayer camera cell will degrade the resolution as well
as the quality of the optics.