That's not what we mean by terrorism.
---
Yes, but now remember - "I" was referencing "medivac" helicopters forRadiosrfun wrote:
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:46D170B4.7010107@nospam.com...
Eeyore wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
When will US airmen ever stop shooting up the Brits, Canadians, and
other allies
?
Why are we even fighting your stupid wars for you ?
" Three British soldiers have been killed in a 'friendly fire' tragedy
in
Afghanistan by an American airman.
A U.S. Air Force jet dropped a 500lb bomb on the soldiers' position as
they
battled Taliban insurgents.
A pair of F-15 warplanes had been called in to help when 60 British
soldiers
were ambushed by Taliban fighters and found themselves fighting for
their lives.
An inquiry was under way last night into what went so disastrously
wrong, and
led to the latest in a string of socalled 'blue-on-blue' incidents
involving
American forces. "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=477478&in_page_id=1811
Last time it happened, the Pentagon even tried to suppress evidence.
Are you such a moron you think the pilot eyeballs the bomb release?
You mean target by eye ? I believe that's often what they do in fact.
Your lot killed a load of refugees in
Kosovo that way too.
It is obviously a case of the British calling in the wrong coordinates.
They're supposed to call in the enemy position and not their own. If it
was a case of mistaken identity all 60 British troops would have been
cremated.
I don't see there's anything obvious about it at all. In any case,
ground warfare isn't static. The pilot
should visually confirm the target.
Graham
That may not be possible. The Taliban are not stupid, sometimes the
ambush is just a ruse to lure close air support which is their real
target, they have SAMs. The terrain in that place is very bad, it
naturally channels the combat patrols onto fixed routes in many areas, a
perfect setup for an ambush. The only way to avoid them is to reconnoiter
the route beforehand with aircraft, gunships, or RPVs, and then engage
the enemy with an air attack. The incident occurred because of bad
planning on the part of the British, they called in a bad bombing
coordinate, and/or they were not aware of the positions of all their
troops. In any case it was most likely their own fault.
It is obvious - he's clueless about "Ground" issues when dealing from the
air. When a "Medical" Helicopter is called in - we have to give them ALL
pertinent information. Power lines/poles, fences, etc... They can "not"
see them from the air. They circle over to get "their" view of the
situation - but "still" rely on us to guide them in. IF the pilot for
"any" reason feels it is unsafe to land - they will not. One situation
about a month ago - it was foggy. They flew - because where they took off
from - it was clear - our area was foggy. We could see them hovering
overhead - gave them the description of the landing zone. Even with our
Engines emergency beacons on and so on to form a circle for them - the
pilot couldn't see "us". He couldn't see "anything" - was his description
on the radio. He aborted. Our choppers have pre-set LZ settings to fly
to - but they do not have any way to know - if any changes were made
since their last trip there and will "not" place themselves, their crew,
ship or anyone else in a situation. We also have to call them on the
radio to let them know we hear/see them - and at what position to us - (1
o'clock, etc) so they know they do in fact have the "proper" lz setting -
to double check all information. Then too - on an occasion, they've been
called out to "an" LZ - only to have it changed while hovering over. We
keep in constant contact with them once they're in radio contact range.
Otherwise, they go through our 911 system for contact - to be relayed.
These pilots are pretty decent - they can land most anywhere - but
again - won't place themselves or others in danger. I've flown in
aircraft, been trained in chopper landings for "our" needs and a "Flight
Nurse" also runs with our Engine Company - so I have pretty good
information on how "accurate" ground coordinates "must" be. Ground
contact and coordinates are "critical". The pilots can't possibly spot
enemy forces <or> "Friendly" forces on the ground at those altitudes.
Somehow - I don't see those "bombers" swooping low enough to pick out
uniforms - which would be disasterous enough - especially in Mountainous
terrain - and given they know there may be some SAMS waiting for them.
Radio transmissions "could" be garbled too - leading to the errors......
Under stress - information can get crossed - confused. I can't think of
too many stressful situations aside from a war - being fired at. There
are many factors we doing the armchair quarterbacking - aren't aware of -
in particular <there>; but having had / have experiences we do - know
what is is about and how it can work or fail. We don't know the "actual"
conditions, terrain, how they're feeling, thinking, reacting. We don't
know - what they "called" in - as opposed to being "heard". But for
someone to "ASSUME" that an aircraft pilot can make out the difference in
people on the ground - guess again.
I have brought helicopters into a landing on a few occasions and the trick
is to visualize their view of the ground/terrain and direct adjustments to
their flight path relative to their orientation, it may not be a good idea
to give away map coordinates of your location at that time and they don't
do much good at that point anyway. There may be radio security
considerations so the transmissions have to be short and to the point, it
also helps to give them a little courtesy brief on situational security
parameters as best you know them. When the pilot is confident you know
what you're doing he will bring that thing in real fast and right to the
spot whether he sees you or not. I love flying in a Blackhawk especially
when they're doing high speed evasive maneuvers at tree top level, doors
open, there's nothing better
You continue to lie, attempting to re-write your character. It won't work.
---
You're even more deluded than I previously thought.
---
---
You're fucking retarded.
He did, you stupid fuck. They were spirited away. Most of them are in
You have noticed NOTHING. Everything you post is absolute bullshit ,
You're an idiot. You have had too many episodes with absinthe, and you
You're an idiot. You know absolutely NOTHING about what is going on in
He illustrated NOTHING. YOU illustrate just how stupid a propaganda
Absolutely correct. The radio waypoint method was merely to get the
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:46D2B8A4.4060900@nospam.com...
Radiosrfun wrote:
"Fred Bloggs" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:46D170B4.7010107@nospam.com...
Eeyore wrote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:
When will US airmen ever stop shooting up the Brits, Canadians, and
other allies
?
Why are we even fighting your stupid wars for you ?
" Three British soldiers have been killed in a 'friendly fire' tragedy
in
Afghanistan by an American airman.
A U.S. Air Force jet dropped a 500lb bomb on the soldiers' position as
they
battled Taliban insurgents.
A pair of F-15 warplanes had been called in to help when 60 British
soldiers
were ambushed by Taliban fighters and found themselves fighting for
their lives.
An inquiry was under way last night into what went so disastrously
wrong, and
led to the latest in a string of socalled 'blue-on-blue' incidents
involving
American forces. "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=477478&in_page_id=1811
Last time it happened, the Pentagon even tried to suppress evidence.
Are you such a moron you think the pilot eyeballs the bomb release?
You mean target by eye ? I believe that's often what they do in fact.
Your lot killed a load of refugees in
Kosovo that way too.
It is obviously a case of the British calling in the wrong coordinates.
They're supposed to call in the enemy position and not their own. If it
was a case of mistaken identity all 60 British troops would have been
cremated.
I don't see there's anything obvious about it at all. In any case,
ground warfare isn't static. The pilot
should visually confirm the target.
Graham
That may not be possible. The Taliban are not stupid, sometimes the
ambush is just a ruse to lure close air support which is their real
target, they have SAMs. The terrain in that place is very bad, it
naturally channels the combat patrols onto fixed routes in many areas, a
perfect setup for an ambush. The only way to avoid them is to reconnoiter
the route beforehand with aircraft, gunships, or RPVs, and then engage
the enemy with an air attack. The incident occurred because of bad
planning on the part of the British, they called in a bad bombing
coordinate, and/or they were not aware of the positions of all their
troops. In any case it was most likely their own fault.
It is obvious - he's clueless about "Ground" issues when dealing from the
air. When a "Medical" Helicopter is called in - we have to give them ALL
pertinent information. Power lines/poles, fences, etc... They can "not"
see them from the air. They circle over to get "their" view of the
situation - but "still" rely on us to guide them in. IF the pilot for
"any" reason feels it is unsafe to land - they will not. One situation
about a month ago - it was foggy. They flew - because where they took off
from - it was clear - our area was foggy. We could see them hovering
overhead - gave them the description of the landing zone. Even with our
Engines emergency beacons on and so on to form a circle for them - the
pilot couldn't see "us". He couldn't see "anything" - was his description
on the radio. He aborted. Our choppers have pre-set LZ settings to fly
to - but they do not have any way to know - if any changes were made
since their last trip there and will "not" place themselves, their crew,
ship or anyone else in a situation. We also have to call them on the
radio to let them know we hear/see them - and at what position to us - (1
o'clock, etc) so they know they do in fact have the "proper" lz setting -
to double check all information. Then too - on an occasion, they've been
called out to "an" LZ - only to have it changed while hovering over. We
keep in constant contact with them once they're in radio contact range.
Otherwise, they go through our 911 system for contact - to be relayed.
These pilots are pretty decent - they can land most anywhere - but
again - won't place themselves or others in danger. I've flown in
aircraft, been trained in chopper landings for "our" needs and a "Flight
Nurse" also runs with our Engine Company - so I have pretty good
information on how "accurate" ground coordinates "must" be. Ground
contact and coordinates are "critical". The pilots can't possibly spot
enemy forces <or> "Friendly" forces on the ground at those altitudes.
Somehow - I don't see those "bombers" swooping low enough to pick out
uniforms - which would be disasterous enough - especially in Mountainous
terrain - and given they know there may be some SAMS waiting for them.
Radio transmissions "could" be garbled too - leading to the errors......
Under stress - information can get crossed - confused. I can't think of
too many stressful situations aside from a war - being fired at. There
are many factors we doing the armchair quarterbacking - aren't aware of -
in particular <there>; but having had / have experiences we do - know
what is is about and how it can work or fail. We don't know the "actual"
conditions, terrain, how they're feeling, thinking, reacting. We don't
know - what they "called" in - as opposed to being "heard". But for
someone to "ASSUME" that an aircraft pilot can make out the difference in
people on the ground - guess again.
I have brought helicopters into a landing on a few occasions and the trick
is to visualize their view of the ground/terrain and direct adjustments to
their flight path relative to their orientation, it may not be a good idea
to give away map coordinates of your location at that time and they don't
do much good at that point anyway. There may be radio security
considerations so the transmissions have to be short and to the point, it
also helps to give them a little courtesy brief on situational security
parameters as best you know them. When the pilot is confident you know
what you're doing he will bring that thing in real fast and right to the
spot whether he sees you or not. I love flying in a Blackhawk especially
when they're doing high speed evasive maneuvers at tree top level, doors
open, there's nothing better
Yes, but now remember - "I" was referencing "medivac" helicopters for
"civilian" issues...... Military is quite different with regard to issues
faced there. I understand completely - your issue of "giving away"
coordinates. My point was, I wanted the Donkey to know - that "Targets"
aren't as clearly visible from the air as he would like to think -
"especially" trying to discern colors of uniforms and so on.
AB-SO-FUCKIN-LUTELY!!!