OT: 1.8GW solar park nears completion

[Winfield Hill]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document,
which has prices, but it may not show the
effective cost of the new solar electricity.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.

I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill
to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills.
(I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.)

George H.

--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.



The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,

not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

Geez, 5% of the country's capacity from one new solar installation
isn't a serious impact? They didn't build all the existing capacity
in just a year or two, did they? If this covers 5%, build 4 more
and you have 25%. Would that be serious or something to piss all over too?

 

[Winfield Hill]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

On 18 Sep 2019 06:18:29 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help them a lot. The
1.8 GW of intermittent solar power, not so much.

There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document,
which has prices, but it may not show the
effective cost of the new solar electricity.

Feed-in "tariffs" are paying suppliers for the privilige of paying
them.

 

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 9:18:46 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document,
which has prices, but it may not show the
effective cost of the new solar electricity.


--
Thanks,
- Win

Will be interesting to see how those flimsy Amp connectors hold up in that environment. They already have one instance of a connector failure due to heat.

 

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
<gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.
I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill
to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills.
(I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.)

Would you sign up to only get all your electricity from windmills?

 

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

 

On 18 Sep 2019 08:12:08 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.

And add storage.

 

On 18 Sep 2019 06:18:29 -0700, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,

That is the peak power.

Fortunately Egypt has a nice amount of hydrolectrics that can be used
as energy 'storage'. The maximum power output from the Aswan dam is
2.2 GW, so they could shut down the hydro generators during the day
and save water for evening, night and morning consumption. Also
remember that day consumption is always larger than night consumption.

amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

A fixed PV array has a capacity factor about 30 %, so the installed
power would have to be about 40 GW peak to produce the same energy as
the three combi sites.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

Since these are combi units that would suggest that they are used
several thousand hours each year. Emergency gas turbines are cheap low
efficiency units, which are used a few hundred hours a tear.

Each of the three sites have twelve combi units, each consisting of
two gas turbines, a boiler and a single steam turbine. At least
starting the steam turbine takes some time, but apparently the gas
turbines can run independently. Since there are 12 combi units in each
site, it is possible to adjust the output power to closely match the
demand.

There's a PV Project Feed-In Tariff document,
which has prices, but it may not show the
effective cost of the new solar electricity.

The building cost was surprisingly expensive, more than $2/W of peak
power.

Feed-in tariffs suspicious if set by the state in advance.

In India private companies makes bids for which tariffs they are
willing to build and maintain a PV plant for decades and get the
income. The state only selects the lowest bid and builds some
infrastructure such as roads and HV lines.

 

[George Herold]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:17:21 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.
I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill
to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills.
(I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.)

Would you sign up to only get all your electricity from windmills?

You mean when the wind mills aren't turning my house goes dark?
If so, then of course not.

GH

 

[Whoey Louie]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

Sure, but again that doesn't mean that it's running full capacity at
night. Energy usage declines sharply at night.

 

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
<trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

Sure, but again that doesn't mean that it's running full capacity at
night. Energy usage declines sharply at night.

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can fall
by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7 industry.

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

I didn't realize it was always night in Egypt.

--

Rick C.

- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Tom Gardner]

On 18/09/19 17:56, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

Sure, but again that doesn't mean that it's running full capacity at
night. Energy usage declines sharply at night.

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can fall
by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7 industry.

In the UK it is 4:1 ...

• Peak demand for electricity is about four
times greater than night-time demand
• Electricity consumption increases rapidly
in the morning as people wake up, shower
and begin to use appliances
• Many people are out during the day, which
keeps consumption steady
• Electricity consumption peaks in the
evening when most people are at home
cooking, using lights, and when TV viewing
is at its height
• Major national events, such as a
Wimbledon final, can cause sharp drops
and increases in demand

Source: https://bbc.in/2UTHUC4 from
BEIS (2016) Energy Consumption in the UK
where BEIS is the UK "governments" Department
for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:17:21 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:27 -0700 (PDT), George Herold
gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot. The 1.8 GW of intermittent solar power,
not so much.

Actually, 14.4GW of gas-fired power. While mid-day
solar comes at a good time and does help to reduce
peak-power production needs, this story makes clear
just how much bigger grid-scale solar farms need
to be, to have a serious impact.

A second calculation I did was, looking at Egypt's
per capita electrical use, about 1.623 MWh/year.
Oops, my wife and I consume about 10.5 MWh/yr, or
6.5 times more. OK, 3.23 x more per capita.** Our
roof makes 11 MWh/yr, but it's sobering thought.

** Doesn't count consumption at work, or our share
of other shared consumptions. worlddata.info says
U.S. per capita = 11.93 MWh/yr, or 7.35 x higher.
Hey, we'd need to more than double our roof solar.
I pay a few hundred dollars a year 'extra' on our electric bill
to 'get' all our electric from the nearby wind mills.
(I also burn ~1,000 gallons/year of oil, driving cars and heating the house.)

Would you sign up to only get all your electricity from windmills?

Would you sign up to pipe the exhaust from a gas fired plant into your home?

Yes, that is a stupid question and so is yours.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rick C]

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

Sure, but again that doesn't mean that it's running full capacity at
night. Energy usage declines sharply at night.

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can fall
by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7 industry.

You mean like in the US? When you say day/night, what is really important is seasonal variations on top of the daily cycle. Summer peak to fall/spring low is more than 2:1 in the US. That is clearly no t dominated by 24/7 industry since that would not show such a heavy seasonal variation.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 2,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:28:58 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 18/09/2019 20:02, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-4,
upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can
fall by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7
industry.

You mean like in the US? When you say day/night, what is really
important is seasonal variations on top of the daily cycle. Summer
peak to fall/spring low is more than 2:1 in the US. That is clearly
no t dominated by 24/7 industry since that would not show such a
heavy seasonal variation.

Presumably there is a lot of electric space heating/cooling then.

In the UK most space heating is gas or oil in regions without mains gas
- and domestic aircon is rare. Never gets hot or humid enough to worry.

UK stats are something like base load at night 20GW.
Weekday working hours 35GW, weekend working hours 30GW.

The only time there is serious seasonal variation is if there is a very
cold winter when peak daytime can reach 50+GW (about the limit of the
entire UK generating capacity). Last winter was quite mild so even on
the coldest winter days the peak daytime seldom went above 40GW.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

We are only really in trouble if it is a blocking high calm cold winters
day without wind and the same over most of Europe. When that happens
next time there will be UK power cuts since France won't export to us if
their entire generating capacity is needed domestically.

If building more wind and solar results in reduction of fossil-fueled
power capacity, expect occasional interesting events.

Pity there are no good storage options.

 

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 12:02:47 -0700 (PDT), Rick C
<gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:15:33 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:25:03 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:12:22 AM UTC-4, Winfield Hill wrote:
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote...

On 18 Sep 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/renewables/egypts-massive-18gw-benban-solar-park-nears-completion

Located in Egypt's "Western Desert", west of the
Nile, but in the eastern Sahara. 1.8GW is a lot,
amounting to 5% of Egypt's capacity, but they're
also finishing three 4.8GW gas-fired combined-cycle
plants (40% of capacity), to meet peak demands.

https://press.siemens.com/global/en/feature/egypt-selects-siemens-operate-and-maintain-worlds-largest-combined-cycle-power-plants

The almost 10 GW of new always-on gas plant will help
them a lot.

If it says it's for peak, that implies that it's not always on.

People need electricity at night too.

Sure, but again that doesn't mean that it's running full capacity at
night. Energy usage declines sharply at night.

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can fall
by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7 industry.

You mean like in the US? When you say day/night, what is really important is seasonal variations on top of the daily cycle. Summer peak to fall/spring low is more than 2:1 in the US. That is clearly no t dominated by 24/7 industry since that would not show such a heavy seasonal variation.

When discussing PV the relevant thing is the day/night difference
_within_ a season. Wind also suffer from short day variations (days),
so there must be other quickly dispatchable sources.

The seasonal variations are easier to handle, start extra power plants
(such as coal or even nuclear) at the beginning of the high
consumption season (summer at low latitudes, winter at high latitudes)
and let them run until end of high season. Regular scheduled
maintenance can be done during low season.

 

[Martin Brown]

On 18/09/2019 20:02, Rick C wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 12:56:46 PM UTC-4,
upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT), Whoey Louie
trader4@optonline.net> wrote:

The consumption is typically 10-30 % lower during the night than
during the day depending on country and season. Apparently it can
fall by 50 % in some countries, if there are very little 24/7
industry.

You mean like in the US? When you say day/night, what is really
important is seasonal variations on top of the daily cycle. Summer
peak to fall/spring low is more than 2:1 in the US. That is clearly
no t dominated by 24/7 industry since that would not show such a
heavy seasonal variation.

Presumably there is a lot of electric space heating/cooling then.

In the UK most space heating is gas or oil in regions without mains gas
- and domestic aircon is rare. Never gets hot or humid enough to worry.

UK stats are something like base load at night 20GW.
Weekday working hours 35GW, weekend working hours 30GW.

The only time there is serious seasonal variation is if there is a very
cold winter when peak daytime can reach 50+GW (about the limit of the
entire UK generating capacity). Last winter was quite mild so even on
the coldest winter days the peak daytime seldom went above 40GW.

https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

We are only really in trouble if it is a blocking high calm cold winters
day without wind and the same over most of Europe. When that happens
next time there will be UK power cuts since France won't export to us if
their entire generating capacity is needed domestically.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown