Op-amp models in LT Spice

Paul Burridge · Jan 31, 2004

Hi,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
for a narrow band around that figure?
Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
dual supply?
Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
them up.'

Thanks,

p
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Genome · Jan 31, 2004

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j4on10dobsjcha8abh121gk6j6olhtcdnu@4ax.com...

Hi,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
for a narrow band around that figure?
Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
dual supply?
Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
them up.'

Thanks,

p
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Like you say, you're opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it. When I
reach a pennies worth of download time I'll consider taking you to court.

In the meantime..... you, and others who wibble about with spice would do
well to realise that the level at which you are capable of using it does not
give you the right or ability to start putting 'real' models in. Especially
when you ask the questions you ask.

Keep it simple...... and learn some book stuff..... You know? AoE.

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

DNA

Leon Heller · Jan 31, 2004

Paul Burridge wrote:

Hi,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?

LT doesn't make anything remotely like the LM324 and 741. Why not find
LM324 and 741 models and use them in LT Spice, if you must ise obsolete
devices. I've got them with the Pulsonix (SIMetrix) SPICE that I use.

When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
for a narrow band around that figure?

It's the max. frequency. You usually get a graph of voltage gain against
frequency in the data.

Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
dual supply?
Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
them up.'

SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
simulation work, otherwise.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html

Stefan Heinzmann · Jan 31, 2004

Leon Heller wrote:

Paul Burridge wrote:

Hi,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?

LT doesn't make anything remotely like the LM324 and 741. Why not find
LM324 and 741 models and use them in LT Spice, if you must ise obsolete
devices. I've got them with the Pulsonix (SIMetrix) SPICE that I use.

When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
for a narrow band around that figure?

It's the max. frequency. You usually get a graph of voltage gain against
frequency in the data.

Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
dual supply?
Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
them up.'

SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
simulation work, otherwise.

Which doesn't mean that they accurately model the current drawn through
the supply lines. I came across models that don't seem to take the
current through the output into account. Which leaves you with a mostly
constant quiescent current. Not very useful.

--
Cheers
Stefan

Jim Thompson · Jan 31, 2004

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:45:22 +0000, Leon Heller <aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com>
wrote:

[snip]

SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
simulation work, otherwise.

Leon

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Robert C Monsen · Jan 31, 2004

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j4on10dobsjcha8abh121gk6j6olhtcdnu@4ax.com...

Hi,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
for a narrow band around that figure?
Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
dual supply?
Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
them up.'

Thanks,

p
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice):

*Sngl GenPurpose OpAmp pkg

IP8 3,2,7,4,6
..SUBCKT XUA741 1 2 3 4 5
C1 11 12 4.664E-12
C2 6 7 20E-12
DC 5 53 DX
DE 54 5 DX
DLP 90 91 DX
DLN 92 90 DX
DP 4 3 DX
BGND 99 0 V=V(3)*.5 + V(4)*.5
BB 7 99 I=I(VB)*10.61E6 - I(VC)*10E6 + I(VE)*10E6 +
+ I(VLP)*10E6 - I(VLN)*10E6
GA 6 0 11 12 137.7E-6
GCM 0 6 10 99 2.574E-9
IEE 10 4 DC 10.16E-6
HLIM 90 0 VLIM 1K
Q1 11 2 13 QX
Q2 12 1 14 QX
R2 6 9 100E3
RC1 3 11 7.957E3
RC2 3 12 7.957E3
RE1 13 10 2.74E3
RE2 14 10 2.74E3
REE 10 99 19.69E6
RO1 8 5 150
RO2 7 99 150
RP 3 4 18.11E3
VB 9 0 DC 0
VC 3 53 DC 2.6
VE 54 4 DC 2.6
VLIM 7 8 DC 0
VLP 91 0 DC 25
VLN 0 92 DC 25
..MODEL DX D(IS=800E-18)
..MODEL QX NPN(IS=800E-18 BF=62.5)
..ENDS XUA741

and

*Quad LoPwr SnglSup OpAmp pkg

IP14
(A:3,2,4,11,1)(B:5,6,4,11,7)(C:10,9,4,11,8)(D:12,13,4,11,14)
..SUBCKT XLM324 1 2 3 4 5
C1 11 12 5.544E-12
C2 6 7 20E-12
DC 5 53 DX
DE 54 5 DX
DLP 90 91 DX
DLN 92 90 DX
DP 4 3 DX
BGND 99 0 V=V(3)*.5 + V(4)*.5
BB 7 99 I=I(VB)*15.91E6 - I(VC)*20E6 + I(VE)*20E6 +
+ I(VLP)*20E6 - I(VLN)*20E6
GA 6 0 11 12 125.7E-6
GCM 0 6 10 99 7.067E-9
IEE 3 10 DC 10.04E-6
HLIM 90 0 VLIM 1K
Q1 11 2 13 QX
Q2 12 1 14 QX
R2 6 9 100E3
RC1 4 11 7.957E3
RC2 4 12 7.957E3
RE1 13 10 2.773E3
RE2 14 10 2.773E3
REE 10 99 19.92E6
RO1 8 5 50
RO2 7 99 50
RP 3 4 30.31E3
VB 9 0 DC 0
VC 3 53 DC 2.1
VE 54 4 DC .6
VLIM 7 8 DC 0
VLP 91 0 DC 40
VLN 0 92 DC 40
..MODEL DX D(IS=800E-18)
..MODEL QX PNP(IS=800E-18 BF=250)
..ENDS XLM324

Paul Burridge · Jan 31, 2004

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com>
wrote:

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Paul Burridge · Jan 31, 2004

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:45:25 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
<rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice

[snipped]

Thanks, Robert.
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Mike Engelhardt · Jan 31, 2004

Paul,

Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models
in the LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever,
does that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or
only good for a narrow band around that figure?

The easiest thing to do is use the symbol "1pole" and set the
open loop voltage gain(Avol) and GBW to that of the target
opamp's DC gain and GBW. There's been threads here about
universal opamp models. You can of course also get a 3rd
party LM324 model and run that in LTspice. See the help
doc's for further info on how to do that.

Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which
you don't have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not
going to generate a board from the schematic, it just seems a
nuisance to have to 'power them up.'

There is a symbol "opamp" that requires no supplies, but it isn't
setup to automatically include the subcircuit definition so just
a SPICE directive ".lib opamp.sub" to the schematic.

--Mike

Joe · Feb 1, 2004

"Paul Burridge" <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dedo10hskbdt9gf3t24o104a7cl2um7leq@4ax.com...

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:45:25 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
rcsurname@comcast.net> wrote:

Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice

[snipped]

Thanks, Robert.
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Hi Paul,

Here's my model for the LM741 in LTSPICE. You should save it as a .mod file.
I used the LT1013 as the .asy file and just renamed it. Helmut described in
great detail how to do this in a thread subject of 'Need help with LTSPICE
library' dated Aug 14, 2003 on this ng. I also have a model of the LM324
opamp below. Its the same, a .MOD file. I got them both from National Semi.
There's a yahoo group for LTSPICE as well. You should check it out.

Have fun with LTSPICE.

Joe

*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* (C) National Semiconductor, Inc.
* Models developed and under copyright by:
* National Semiconductor, Inc.

*/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* Legal Notice: This material is intended for free software support.
* The file may be copied, and distributed; however, reselling the
* material is illegal

*////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* For ordering or technical information on these models, contact:
* National Semiconductor's Customer Response Center
* 7:00 A.M.--7:00 P.M. U.S. Central Time
* (800) 272-9959
* For Applications support, contact the Internet address:
* amps-apps@galaxy.nsc.com

*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*LM741 OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER MACRO-MODEL
*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*
* connections: non-inverting input
* | inverting input
* | | positive power supply
* | | | negative power supply
* | | | | output
* | | | | |
* | | | | |
..SUBCKT LM741/NS 1 2 99 50 28
*
*Features:
*Improved performance over industry standards
*Plug-in replacement for LM709,LM201,MC1439,748
*Input and output overload protection
*
****************INPUT STAGE**************
*
IOS 2 1 20N
*^Input offset current
R1 1 3 250K
R2 3 2 250K
I1 4 50 100U
R3 5 99 517
R4 6 99 517
Q1 5 2 4 QX
Q2 6 7 4 QX
*Fp2=2.55 MHz
C4 5 6 60.3614P
*
***********COMMON MODE EFFECT***********
*
I2 99 50 1.6MA
*^Quiescent supply current
EOS 7 1 POLY(1) 16 49 1E-3 1
*Input offset voltage.^
R8 99 49 40K
R9 49 50 40K
*
*********OUTPUT VOLTAGE LIMITING********
V2 99 8 1.63
D1 9 8 DX
D2 10 9 DX
V3 10 50 1.63
*
**************SECOND STAGE**************
*
EH 99 98 99 49 1
G1 98 9 5 6 2.1E-3
*Fp1=5 Hz
R5 98 9 95.493MEG
C3 98 9 333.33P
*
***************POLE STAGE***************
*
*Fp=30 MHz
G3 98 15 9 49 1E-6
R12 98 15 1MEG
C5 98 15 5.3052E-15
*
*********COMMON-MODE ZERO STAGE*********
*
*Fpcm=300 Hz
G4 98 16 3 49 3.1623E-8
L2 98 17 530.5M
R13 17 16 1K
*
**************OUTPUT STAGE**************
*
F6 50 99 POLY(1) V6 450U 1
E1 99 23 99 15 1
R16 24 23 25
D5 26 24 DX
V6 26 22 0.65V
R17 23 25 25
D6 25 27 DX
V7 22 27 0.65V
V5 22 21 0.18V
D4 21 15 DX
V4 20 22 0.18V
D3 15 20 DX
L3 22 28 100P
RL3 22 28 100K
*
***************MODELS USED**************
*
..MODEL DX D(IS=1E-15)
..MODEL QX NPN(BF=625)
*
..ENDS
*$

*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* (C) National Semiconductor, Inc.
* Models developed and under copyright by:
* National Semiconductor, Inc.

*/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* Legal Notice: This material is intended for free software support.
* The file may be copied, and distributed; however, reselling the
* material is illegal

*////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
* For ordering or technical information on these models, contact:
* National Semiconductor's Customer Response Center
* 7:00 A.M.--7:00 P.M. U.S. Central Time
* (800) 272-9959
* For Applications support, contact the Internet address:
* amps-apps@galaxy.nsc.com

*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*LM324 Low Power Quad OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER MACRO-MODEL
*//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*
* connections: non-inverting input
* | inverting input
* | | positive power supply
* | | | negative power supply
* | | | | output
* | | | | |
* | | | | |
..SUBCKT LM324/NS 1 2 99 50 28
*
*Features:
*Eliminates need for dual supplies
*Large DC voltage gain = 100dB
*High bandwidth = 1MHz
*Low input offset voltage = 2mV
*Wide supply range = +-1.5V to +-16V
*
*NOTE: Model is for single device only and simulated
* supply current is 1/4 of total device current.
* Output crossover distortion with dual supplies
* is not modeled.
*
****************INPUT STAGE**************
*
IOS 2 1 5N
*^Input offset current
R1 1 3 500K
R2 3 2 500K
I1 99 4 100U
R3 5 50 517
R4 6 50 517
Q1 5 2 4 QX
Q2 6 7 4 QX
*Fp2=1.2 MHz
C4 5 6 128.27P
*
***********COMMON MODE EFFECT***********
*
I2 99 50 75U
*^Quiescent supply current
EOS 7 1 POLY(1) 16 49 2E-3 1
*Input offset voltage.^
R8 99 49 60K
R9 49 50 60K
*
*********OUTPUT VOLTAGE LIMITING********
V2 99 8 1.63
D1 9 8 DX
D2 10 9 DX
V3 10 50 .635
*
**************SECOND STAGE**************
*
EH 99 98 99 49 1
G1 98 9 POLY(1) 5 6 0 9.8772E-4 0 .3459
*Fp1=7.86 Hz
R5 98 9 101.2433MEG
C3 98 9 200P
*
***************POLE STAGE***************
*
*Fp=2 MHz
G3 98 15 9 49 1E-6
R12 98 15 1MEG
C5 98 15 7.9577E-14
*
*********COMMON-MODE ZERO STAGE*********
*
*Fpcm=10 KHz
G4 98 16 3 49 5.6234E-8
L2 98 17 15.9M
R13 17 16 1K
*
**************OUTPUT STAGE**************
*
F6 50 99 POLY(1) V6 300U 1
E1 99 23 99 15 1
R16 24 23 17.5
D5 26 24 DX
V6 26 22 .63V
R17 23 25 17.5
D6 25 27 DX
V7 22 27 .63V
V5 22 21 0.27V
D4 21 15 DX
V4 20 22 0.27V
D3 15 20 DX
L3 22 28 500P
RL3 22 28 100K
*
***************MODELS USED**************
*
..MODEL DX D(IS=1E-15)
..MODEL QX PNP(BF=1.111E3)
*
..ENDS
*$

Paul Burridge · Feb 1, 2004

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:51:32 GMT, "Joe"
<nuisancewildlife@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:

Hi Paul,

Here's my model for the LM741 in LTSPICE. You should save it as a .mod file.
I used the LT1013 as the .asy file and just renamed it. Helmut described in
great detail how to do this in a thread subject of 'Need help with LTSPICE
library' dated Aug 14, 2003 on this ng. I also have a model of the LM324
opamp below. Its the same, a .MOD file. I got them both from National Semi.

Thanks, Joe. Those models should be very useful.

There's a yahoo group for LTSPICE as well. You should check it out.

Will do.
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Syd Rumpo · Feb 1, 2004

In message <96do10ldm9okk8a432jaolpscfa12qh77a@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com
wrote:

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

Neither hopeless nor old. If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
and accept that they are as they are. That includes Auntie: she is
watching you.

--
Syd

Jim Thompson · Feb 1, 2004

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <sydrumpox@clarat.co.uk>
wrote:

In message <96do10ldm9okk8a432jaolpscfa12qh77a@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com
wrote:

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

Neither hopeless nor old. If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
and accept that they are as they are. That includes Auntie: she is
watching you.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Paul Burridge · Feb 1, 2004

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <sydrumpox@clarat.co.uk
wrote:

In message <96do10ldm9okk8a432jaolpscfa12qh77a@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com
wrote:

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

Neither hopeless nor old.

Obnoxious dypsomaniac, then.

If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
and accept that they are as they are.

And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
the contempt they deserve. That includes you.

That includes Auntie: she is
watching you.

Good one, Syd!

Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
with what you know, Jim.
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

Jim Thompson · Feb 2, 2004

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:41:13 +0000, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <sydrumpox@clarat.co.uk
wrote:

In message <96do10ldm9okk8a432jaolpscfa12qh77a@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com
wrote:

Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

Ain't I kind?

More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

Neither hopeless nor old.

Obnoxious dypsomaniac, then.

If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
and accept that they are as they are.

And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
the contempt they deserve. That includes you.

That includes Auntie: she is
watching you.

Good one, Syd!

Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
with what you know, Jim.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

Syd Rumpo · Feb 2, 2004

In message <qs2r1015vbmipbam21hsp0sj8buck31vec@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
<pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes

And who the hell are *you* to lecture me?

I don't have the inclination to engage in a battle of wits with an
unarmed man. This correspondence is now closed.

--
Syd

Bill Sloman · Feb 2, 2004

Paul Burridge <pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote in message news:<qs2r1015vbmipbam21hsp0sj8buck31vec@4ax.com>...

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <sydrumpox@clarat.co.uk
wrote:

In message <96do10ldm9okk8a432jaolpscfa12qh77a@4ax.com>, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> writes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <genome@nothere.com

<snip>

That includes Auntie: she is
watching you.

Good one, Syd!

Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
with what you know, Jim.

Paul, if you think that "Auntie" is "Licensed at public expense to
spread lies"
you don't know who or what "Auntie" is either. You'd better give up
reading right-wing newspapers for a while ...

-------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Chris Carlen · Feb 2, 2004

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:41:13 +0000, Paul Burridge
pb@osiris1.notthisbit.co.uk> wrote:
And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
the contempt they deserve. That includes you.

That includes Auntie: she is

watching you.

Good one, Syd!

Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
with what you know, Jim.

Poor Paul, You still don't understand that Genome has more mental
capacity in his pinky finger than you have if you surround yourself
with all your friends ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
knowledge. To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.

In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
*anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect. Where I work, I am
respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
get mentorship. Neither should Paul.

Good day!

--
____________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov

Jim Thompson · Feb 2, 2004

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:37:34 -0800, Chris Carlen
<crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
Poor Paul, You still don't understand that Genome has more mental
capacity in his pinky finger than you have if you surround yourself
with all your friends ;-)

...Jim Thompson

I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
knowledge. To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.

In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
*anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect. Where I work, I am
respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
get mentorship. Neither should Paul.

Good day!

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

John Woodgate · Feb 2, 2004

I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris Carlen
<crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov> wrote (in <bvm5dd01pdv@enews2.newsguy.com&gt

about 'Op-amp models in LT Spice', on Mon, 2 Feb 2004:

I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
knowledge.

of course.

To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.

Well, not all are of the quality of Fred Bloggs, or Genome when he's on
this planet.

In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
*anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect.

That may be a counsel of perfection.

Where I work, I am
respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
get mentorship.

No-one expects you to grovel. But it is not logical to ignore good
advice because it comes with an irrelevant and distasteful burden.

Neither should Paul.

Ah, well, there are special cases, who tend to get what they deserve.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

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