? on small battery operated fluorescents

For some reason I'd thought you mentioned using 2 x AA cells while you
instead wrote 4. Ignore the parts of my prior reply which were based
on that mistake.

 

[Dave]

<emailaddress@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1a613160-944e-47ea-8636-76abab39c34f@u13g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

For some reason I'd thought you mentioned using 2 x AA cells while you
instead wrote 4. Ignore the parts of my prior reply which were based
on that mistake.

No problem. I hadn't thought about that being an older and less efficient
part (the fluorescent tube). Would obviously rather work towards something
that
worked well. That was just the best thing I found at the time. Have since
found that the manufacturer of the parts used in that project is based in
the UK (I am in the US) and has recently been bought by someone else.
Nobody seems to be able to locate a transformer core or form, and the US
sales office doesn't answer their phone/hasn't replied to my email. Also,
the
transistor called for is an obselete part for which there is no exact
substitute. I could use the next part in line (tolerant of higher
emmitter/collector voltages etc.) but it's still not a late design. Would
rather work with something more recent.

Recently found a couple of these at my local electronics candy store...

http://www.logical-lighting.com/pdf/LEDHPModuleWhitePDF.pdf

and built an emergency lantern out of them, using a couple of six-cell AA
holders and a 7812 voltage regulator. It's not very impressive though, and
I was thinking of doing something similar with the two LEDs for the
flashlight and a fluorescent tube down the side, with a three-position
rocker switch to select which funcion is activated. Would love it if
someonecould point me in the right direction for something like this. Do
appreciate the help so far...

Dave

 

[Lord Garth]

"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:708ufcFnl4h2U1@mid.individual.net...

"Lord Garth"


The fluorescent tube in that unit appears to be a CCFL.


** No it does not.

It looks like a standard fluoro with heater pins each end.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/images/PDF/F-04T5CW-specsheet.pdf



.... Phil

Wrong picture Phil....

follow the link:

http://www.conrad.nl/goto.php?artikel=571771

 

[ehsjr]

Dave wrote:

Once purchased a small flashlight with a fluorescent (6") built into the
side, and a switch that let you decide which one to turn on. Ran on 4 AA
batteries, for several hours. Wife fell in love with it, but I fear it will
not last forever (it has already lasted 20 years of intermittent use).
Wondering if I could build her something similar, since I can't find
anything like that at the sporting goods store any longer. I have a
background in electronics and a workshop with a junkbox that won't quit.
And patience. Unfortunately, Google doesn't seem to have what I am looking
for readily accessible. Everything I see there seems to deal with household
AC. I am guessing that a device such as I describe would make use of a
switching power supply, but I have no idea what voltage would ultimately be
used for an F4T5CW bulb. Or what frequency of alternating current (or
whether alternating current would even be used.) Any ideas on where I could
find info, and possibly schematics? This one would be eternally gratefull.

Many thanks,

Dave

120VAC. See:
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f4t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9029

Ed

 

On Feb 20, 9:55 pm, "Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote:

emailaddr...@insightbb.com> wrote in message

news:1a613160-944e-47ea-8636-76abab39c34f@u13g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

For some reason I'd thought you mentioned using 2 x AA cells while you
instead wrote 4.  Ignore the parts of my prior reply which were based
on that mistake.

No problem.  I hadn't thought about that being an older and less efficient
part (the fluorescent tube).  Would obviously rather work towards something
that
worked well.  That was just the best thing I found at the time.  Have since
found that the manufacturer of the parts used in that project is based in
the UK (I am in the US) and has recently been bought by someone else.
Nobody seems to be able to locate a transformer core or form, and the US
sales office doesn't answer their phone/hasn't replied to my email.  Also,
the
transistor called for is an obselete part for which there is no exact
substitute.  I could use the next part in line (tolerant of higher
emmitter/collector voltages etc.) but it's still not a late design.  Would
rather work with something more recent.

Recently found a couple of these at my local electronics candy store...

http://www.logical-lighting.com/pdf/LEDHPModuleWhitePDF.pdf

and built an emergency lantern out of them, using a couple of six-cell AA
holders and a 7812 voltage regulator.  It's not very impressive though, and
I was thinking of doing something similar with the two LEDs for the
flashlight and a fluorescent tube down the side, with a three-position
rocker switch to select which funcion is activated.  Would love it if
someonecould point me in the right direction for something like this.  Do
appreciate the help so far...

Dave

Unless you have a severe itch to proceed with local parts, I don't see
why you'd use that.
Also, I hate to see something running off battery power using a linear
regulator, unless this project is only about cheapest way with parts
you have on hand.

For a replacement to something that lasted 20 years, I think you
deserve more. As always, with a simple circuit homebrew product the
trickiest part isn't the parts as much as the case, what is reasonable
to use instead of being a chunky box when it comes to a flashlight
that has to satisfy a significant other.

You have not listed all your design requirements, so there isn't an
easy answer. One popular alternative among mountain biking circles is
to make the body of the flashlight out of tubular or square/
rectangular aluminum, then the body of the light becomes the heatsink
and the driver board, then for handheld use.. plus cells (battery) is
contained within. One caveat with this type of design is if the
handle is a heatsink, if it runs for a few minutes it starts to get
hot at higher current levels. Size becomes one of the design
criteria.

When it comes to implementing a driver board and LEDs, the sky is the
virtual limit on how you want to shoe-horn these into a finished
product if you only keep the cooling vs current requirements per light
output in mind. Basically, I suggest you try the modern Cree XR-E
LEDs, with a driver board that suits your average voltage for whatever
battery you want to use, then as far as the rest of the housing, it's
up to your imagination so long as you remember to keep the heatsinking
reasonable for the driving current used. More light requires a larger
flashlight, though all else being equal, the more LEDs you use, the
more investment in buying more per the light output you want, the
resultant lower drive current will reduce the size of the heatsink you
need since you reduce the heat density per LED. Driving XR-E's at
350MA per seems to be a sweet spot for good efficiency vs cost, but
this still requires at least a minimal heatsink.

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 10:53:25 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"John Fields"

Phil Allison

** What was MY post about ???

---
As far as I could tell, you were talking about the power requirements
for the lamp and the inverter (ballast, actually) and the run times
associated with various cell sizes.


** What did the OP claim on that matter ????

---
You may have corrected an erroneous assumption he made, and good on you
for that, but so what?

My critique was that you didn't answer the question about the tube's
_voltage_ requirements, which is what he was looking for.

Certainly, for someone as fluorescent-lamp-savvy as you claim to be,
that data should have been on the tip of your tongue.
---

( step by tiny step, we may get there eventually )

---
Just answer the voltage question and we'll get there all at once,
sweetie.

Or not, since the question's already been answered.

You're dismissed.

JF

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 13:11:19 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

emailaddress@insightbb.com


As Phil Allison attempted to point out, the tube you mentioned will
not meet your design requirements of hours of runtime


** My god !!

Someone else was actually paying attention .


Phil also linked a spec sheet for the tube you mentioned,


** He did.

The guy is thorough too.

---
Geez, I wonder why he didn't answer the OP's question then?


JF

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"

** What was MY post about ???

---
As far as I could tell, you were talking about the power requirements
for the lamp and the inverter (ballast, actually) and the run times
associated with various cell sizes.


** What did the OP claim on that matter ????

---
You may have corrected an erroneous assumption he made,

** That is NOT correct either.

You still have no idea what my post was about.

Cos you will never admit your ridiculous error.

My critique was that you didn't answer the question...

** 100 % BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no possible critique re what was ** NOT ** posted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. It's entirely a matter of choice whether to answer any post at all.

2. It's entirely a matter of choice what issue one choses to address, either
arising from or secluded in the wording of any particular post.

3. Congenitally autistic, malignant piles Septic Shit like John Fields get
no say on that whatever.


Have a vile death - ASAP.




...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields"

My critique was that you didn't answer the question...

** 100 % BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is no possible critique re what was ** NOT ** posted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. It's entirely a matter of choice whether to answer any post at all.

2. It's entirely a matter of choice what issue one choses to address, either
arising from or secluded in the wording of any particular post.

3. Congenitally autistic, malignant piles Septic Shit like John Fields get
no say on that whatever.


Have a really vile death - ASAP.






...... Phil

 

[Dave]

"ehsjr" <ehsjr@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:2lNnl.731$Ez6.138@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Dave wrote:
Once purchased a small flashlight with a fluorescent (6") built into the
side, and a switch that let you decide which one to turn on. Ran on 4 AA
batteries, for several hours. Wife fell in love with it, but I fear it
will not last forever (it has already lasted 20 years of intermittent
use). Wondering if I could build her something similar, since I can't
find anything like that at the sporting goods store any longer. I have a
background in electronics and a workshop with a junkbox that won't quit.
And patience. Unfortunately, Google doesn't seem to have what I am
looking for readily accessible. Everything I see there seems to deal
with household AC. I am guessing that a device such as I describe would
make use of a switching power supply, but I have no idea what voltage
would ultimately be used for an F4T5CW bulb. Or what frequency of
alternating current (or whether alternating current would even be used.)
Any ideas on where I could find info, and possibly schematics? This one
would be eternally gratefull.

Many thanks,

Dave



120VAC. See:
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f4t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9029

Ed

Aah. Thank you, Ed. Answers that question real easy. Much appreciated.

Dave

 

[Phil Allison]

"Dave"

"ehsjr"

120VAC. See:
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f4t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9029


Aah. Thank you, Ed. Answers that question real easy. Much appreciated.

** ROTFL

Wot a prize case of the blind leading the blind.





....... Phil

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:40:45 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"John Fields"
"Phil Allison"


** What was MY post about ???

---
As far as I could tell, you were talking about the power requirements
for the lamp and the inverter (ballast, actually) and the run times
associated with various cell sizes.


** What did the OP claim on that matter ????

---
You may have corrected an erroneous assumption he made,


** That is NOT correct either.

---
Really???

From his post:

"Once purchased a small flashlight with a fluorescent (6") built into
the side, and a switch that let you decide which one to turn on. Ran on
4 AA batteries, for several hours."

You replied:

"** That is a 4 watt rated fluoro tube.
An inverter to drive it would consume another watt or two.
Makes about 6 watts or 1.5 watts per cell - ok ?
The published data on Energiser AAs says that their running time at 1
amp is less than 1 hour.

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E91.pdf

Same goes for C size cells.
Only D size cells would hold up for several hours."


Now, to me, that sounds like you were saying that his _assumption_ that
the thing would run for several hours on four AA cells was wrong (that
would be the "erroneous assumption" I mentioned) and you were correcting
him. (That would be the "You may have corrected him" I mentioned).

So how am I wrong?
---

You still have no idea what my post was about.

---
Well, it sure wasn't about answering a question that was asked.

But, tell me then, since you seem to think that I'm clueless,
what _was_ your post about?
---

Cos you will never admit your ridiculous error.

---
WTF???????
---

My critique was that you didn't answer the question...


** 100 % BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---
No; here it is again:

"My critique was that you didn't answer the question..."

Now how can that possibly be bollocks since you didn't answer his
question, and _that's_ what I critiqued?

Methinks your mind may be on overload; careful, you may wind up like
this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oep4mRpmrkQ&feature=related

There is no possible critique re what was ** NOT ** posted.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. It's entirely a matter of choice whether to answer any post at all.

---
Agree
---

2. It's entirely a matter of choice what issue one choses to address, either
arising from or secluded in the wording of any particular post.

---
Agree
---

3. Congenitally autistic, malignant piles Septic Shit like John Fields get
no say on that whatever.

---
Disagree.

From your #2, above, I chose to address the issue of your not answering
the OP's question.

You, of course, are at liberty to criticise my choice but, by your own
words, have no say on whether or not I may post.
---

Have a vile death - ASAP.

---
Spoken like someone behind a vile life.

JF

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:42:55 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

Have a really vile death - ASAP.

---
What's next, "Have a really, really vile death - ASAP"?

And then, reductio ad absurdum,

"Have a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
vile death - ASAP"?

Or will you shout it out in all caps as it seems is your wont, you
emotionally crippled moron.

JF

 

[John Fields]

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:36:07 +1100, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Dave"
"ehsjr"

120VAC. See:
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f4t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9029


Aah. Thank you, Ed. Answers that question real easy. Much appreciated.



** ROTFL

Wot a prize case of the blind leading the blind.

---
Why not post the right answer then, instead of just making things worse?

Ed's a big boy and can stand to be corrected, unlike someone I know...

F'rinstance, how about the filament voltage and current, and the
striking and running voltages?

A fluorescent lamp guru like you ought to have that data at your
fingertips, yes?

JF

 

[Dave]

Recently found a couple of these at my local electronics candy store...

http://www.logical-lighting.com/pdf/LEDHPModuleWhitePDF.pdf

and built an emergency lantern out of them, using a couple of six-cell AA
holders and a 7812 voltage regulator. It's not very impressive though, and
I was thinking of doing something similar with the two LEDs for the
flashlight and a fluorescent tube down the side, with a three-position
rocker switch to select which funcion is activated. Would love it if
someonecould point me in the right direction for something like this. Do
appreciate the help so far...

Dave

Unless you have a severe itch to proceed with local parts, I don't see
why you'd use that.
Also, I hate to see something running off battery power using a linear
regulator, unless this project is only about cheapest way with parts
you have on hand.

For a replacement to something that lasted 20 years, I think you
deserve more. As always, with a simple circuit homebrew product the
trickiest part isn't the parts as much as the case, what is reasonable
to use instead of being a chunky box when it comes to a flashlight
that has to satisfy a significant other.

You have not listed all your design requirements, so there isn't an
easy answer. One popular alternative among mountain biking circles is
to make the body of the flashlight out of tubular or square/
rectangular aluminum, then the body of the light becomes the heatsink
and the driver board, then for handheld use.. plus cells (battery) is
contained within. One caveat with this type of design is if the
handle is a heatsink, if it runs for a few minutes it starts to get
hot at higher current levels. Size becomes one of the design
criteria.

When it comes to implementing a driver board and LEDs, the sky is the
virtual limit on how you want to shoe-horn these into a finished
product if you only keep the cooling vs current requirements per light
output in mind. Basically, I suggest you try the modern Cree XR-E
LEDs, with a driver board that suits your average voltage for whatever
battery you want to use, then as far as the rest of the housing, it's
up to your imagination so long as you remember to keep the heatsinking
reasonable for the driving current used. More light requires a larger
flashlight, though all else being equal, the more LEDs you use, the
more investment in buying more per the light output you want, the
resultant lower drive current will reduce the size of the heatsink you
need since you reduce the heat density per LED. Driving XR-E's at
350MA per seems to be a sweet spot for good efficiency vs cost, but
this still requires at least a minimal heatsink.
--

sigh Am just beginning to realize the complexity of what I originally
imagined to be a simple and quick throw-together. No easy answers. Would
like to make use of some type of flashlight bulb (krypton?) that would
tolerate the 18V my battery pack offers when fresh, and would continue to
function in some fashion as it dropped down below 12V. Would also like to
run an 8-watt fluorescent off of the same battery pack as long as possible
(Possibly this one?
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f8t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9048?_requestid=96321).

Would *like* to make use of the same battery pack I am currently using
simply because it fits the hand well and represents the *approximate*
desired finished size (+/- 8" x 1.25" x 1.25"). Would like to run the
fluorescent down one side of this battery back. I imagine sealing the
electronics in the insulative, industrial sealant/craft adhesive E-6000,
leaving whatever heatsink is necessary outermost on the end away from the
flashlight bulb/reflector. Would like to use a three-position rocker switch
to select between the two lighting functions.

What, in your opinion, would be the best way to achieve the 120VAC required
by the aforementioned fluorescent bulb for as long as possible? Stick with
a 12VDC regulator, and run the output through a switching power supply for
X10 output?

You mentioned Cree XR-E LEDs. The Q5 does look promising. Is this the
5-watt LED that I hear about at my electronics candystore? And what,
actually, is involved in designing a driver board? Would these compare at
all with a Krypton bulb? Or is that simply a trade-off one weighs,
brightness for current drain?

All I can think of right now. Really appreciate your patience, and help.
Sorry for the long-drawn out post...

Dave

 

[John Larkin]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:21:22 -0600, "Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote:

Once purchased a small flashlight with a fluorescent (6") built into the
side, and a switch that let you decide which one to turn on. Ran on 4 AA
batteries, for several hours. Wife fell in love with it, but I fear it will
not last forever (it has already lasted 20 years of intermittent use).
Wondering if I could build her something similar, since I can't find
anything like that at the sporting goods store any longer. I have a
background in electronics and a workshop with a junkbox that won't quit.
And patience. Unfortunately, Google doesn't seem to have what I am looking
for readily accessible. Everything I see there seems to deal with household
AC. I am guessing that a device such as I describe would make use of a
switching power supply, but I have no idea what voltage would ultimately be
used for an F4T5CW bulb. Or what frequency of alternating current (or
whether alternating current would even be used.) Any ideas on where I could
find info, and possibly schematics? This one would be eternally gratefull.

Many thanks,

Dave

Use white LEDs. Much easier. She won't know the difference.

John

 

[ehsjr]

John Fields wrote:

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 00:36:07 +1100, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:


"Dave"

"ehsjr"

120VAC. See:
http://www.newark.com/cec-industries/f4t5-cw/fluorescent-lamp/dp/85K9029


Aah. Thank you, Ed. Answers that question real easy. Much appreciated.



** ROTFL

Wot a prize case of the blind leading the blind.


---
Why not post the right answer then, instead of just making things worse?

Ed's a big boy and can stand to be corrected, unlike someone I know...

In fact, I appreciate it. If the datasheet is wrong, then
others could benefit, too. And if Phil can provide missing
data, so much the better.

Ed

F'rinstance, how about the filament voltage and current, and the
striking and running voltages?

A fluorescent lamp guru like you ought to have that data at your
fingertips, yes?

JF

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields"

** What did the OP claim on that matter ????

---
You may have corrected an erroneous assumption he made,


** That is NOT correct either.


Now, to me, that sounds like you were saying that his _assumption_ that
the thing would run for several hours on four AA cells was wrong

** It was not an " assumption" - fuckwit.

He made a **claim** that appears to be impossible.

So that claim needed to be addressed.

You still have no idea what my post was about.

Cos you will never admit your ridiculous error.


My critique was that you didn't answer the question...

** 100 % BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cos there is no possible critique re what was ** NOT ** posted.

The matter I raised needed to be cleared up before going further.

The OP has posted no response.

Cos his claim was bullshit.
-------------------------------

1. It's entirely a matter of choice whether to answer any post at all.

2. It's entirely a matter of choice what issue one choses to address, either
arising from or secluded in the wording of any particular post.

3. Congenitally autistic, malignant piles Septic Shit like John Fields get
no say on that whatever.


Have a vile death - ASAP.



...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields Has Gone INSANE "

<jfields@austininstruments.com>


** Do not deal with is INSANE person.

Fields is one congenitally autistic, malignant pile of Septic Shit.


Hope he has a vile death - ASAP.





...... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Fields Has Gone INSANE "

<jfields@austininstruments.com>


** Do not deal with is INSANE person.

Fields is one congenitally autistic, malignant pile of Septic Shit.

Hope he has a vile death - ASAP.




...... Phil