Oil as an Insulator

L

Lionel Wagner

Guest
I have a monitor yoke with an itermittent glitch.
The vertical deflection coil has a small secondary
"trim" coil that has weak insulation on the windings.
In order to improve the inter-winding insulation
I would like to put a drop or two of oil on it.
Which oil has the best insulation properties:
Mineral motor oil or silicone oil?
--
,_,
Lionel The more I hear about other people's problems, (O,O)
Wagner the better I feel about my own. ( )
--------------<best viewed with fixed width font>-----------"-"-
 
It is not oil that will do the job for you. The wires have to be properly
insulated with electrical heat shrink sleeving, or the equivalent. Or,
something along this line.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"Lionel Wagner" <ck508@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bu1hmf$qtf$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...
I have a monitor yoke with an itermittent glitch.
The vertical deflection coil has a small secondary
"trim" coil that has weak insulation on the windings.
In order to improve the inter-winding insulation
I would like to put a drop or two of oil on it.
Which oil has the best insulation properties:
Mineral motor oil or silicone oil?
--
,_,
Lionel The more I hear about other people's problems, (O,O)
Wagner the better I feel about my own. ( )
--------------<best viewed with fixed width font>-----------"-"-
 
its flammable. just wait for a fire.



"Lionel Wagner" <ck508@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:bu1hmf$qtf$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...
I have a monitor yoke with an itermittent glitch.
The vertical deflection coil has a small secondary
"trim" coil that has weak insulation on the windings.
In order to improve the inter-winding insulation
I would like to put a drop or two of oil on it.
Which oil has the best insulation properties:
Mineral motor oil or silicone oil?
--
,_,
Lionel The more I hear about other people's problems, (O,O)
Wagner the better I feel about my own. ( )
--------------<best viewed with fixed width font>-----------"-"-
Click to expand...
 
Chris p wrote:

Mike wrote:

its flammable. just wait for a fire.


http://82.36.28.53:8003/XfrmBlast1.mpg

hehehehe :)
Click to expand...
Cool! I hope nobody was hurt.

--
After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such
steps are necessary. ...Charlie
 
Chris p wrote:
Mike wrote:

its flammable. just wait for a fire.


http://82.36.28.53:8003/XfrmBlast1.mpg

hehehehe :)

i may just explain the video is a substation which has a short to ground
Click to expand...
causing the transformer to heat up so much that a safety valve lets out
all of the high preassure superheated mineral oil :)
 
I have a monitor yoke with an itermittent glitch.
The vertical deflection coil has a small secondary
"trim" coil that has weak insulation on the windings.
In order to improve the inter-winding insulation
I would like to put a drop or two of oil on it.
Which oil has the best insulation properties:
Mineral motor oil or silicone oil?
Click to expand...
None will work. You may have to replace the faulty components to ensure a safe
and reliable fix. - Reinhart
 
http://82.36.28.53:8003/XfrmBlast1.mpg

hehehehe :)
Click to expand...
Interesting video.

Looks like the substation developed a short which allowed an arc to overheat a
transformer, causing it to spew its insulating media which touched off a
massive blaze followed by a small but loud bright purple pop on the xfmer which
broke the circuit and caused a blackout.

I wonder if this was the Con Edison substation fire in New York that I read
about? Apparently, something like this happened last summer and was one of New
York's worst electrical fires.

I wouldn't know beyond what I've read as I'm all the way down in Florida, with
power served by FPL instead of Con Ed. The only explosion we got here was a
long time ago, and that was when a wet twig from a bird's nest crossed the
phase lines, poping a circuit breaker down the line. - Reinhart
 
LASERandDVDfan wrote:

http://82.36.28.53:8003/XfrmBlast1.mpg

hehehehe :)



Interesting video.

Looks like the substation developed a short which allowed an arc to overheat a
transformer, causing it to spew its insulating media which touched off a
massive blaze followed by a small but loud bright purple pop on the xfmer which
broke the circuit and caused a blackout.

I wonder if this was the Con Edison substation fire in New York that I read
about? Apparently, something like this happened last summer and was one of New
York's worst electrical fires.

I wouldn't know beyond what I've read as I'm all the way down in Florida, with
power served by FPL instead of Con Ed. The only explosion we got here was a
long time ago, and that was when a wet twig from a bird's nest crossed the
phase lines, poping a circuit breaker down the line. - Reinhart
Click to expand...
I had the (slab mounted) transformer in my yard explode one night when I
lived in Houston. Apparently ants had made a home in the box containing
it and eventually ate through the insulation, causing a short.

Nothing like the movie cited above, though. <g>

--
After being targeted with gigabytes of trash by the "SWEN" worm, I have
concluded we must conceal our e-mail address. Our true address is the
mirror image of what you see before the "@" symbol. It's a shame such
steps are necessary. ...Charlie
 
Pretty good fun...all the above.

If you insist on "fixing" the coil, and you think it's worth the effort, I
would suggest
a high voltage insulator such as GC's high voltage dope, which comes in a
thick
liquid. Brush it on, let dry, and hope for the best...............

Les
 
"les" (les@rcn.com) writes:
Pretty good fun...all the above.
If you insist on "fixing" the coil, and you think it's worth the effort, I
would suggest a high voltage insulator such as GC's high voltage dope, which comes in a
thick liquid. Brush it on, let dry, and hope for the best...............

Thank you, yours is the most intelligent response. I will have to
Click to expand...
persuade the dope to dry very slowly so it can seep into the windings.

Haven't the other jokers considered that power transformers are
IMMERSED in oil for cooling!


--
,_,
Lionel The more I hear about other people's problems, (O,O)
Wagner the better I feel about my own. ( )
--------------<best viewed with fixed width font>-----------"-"-
 
well yes, it's true about transformers being in oil, but my understanding is
that
it has a high thermal coefficient, plus a significantly elevated boiling
point
making it (not to mention it's low conduction property) an ideal medium
to drop transformers into. I don't know about how the heat pumps work
in this model, but I'm sure its a topic onto itself. If you figure the
different
immersion materials used , you've raised many new concepts including ones
such as toxicity..........
 
I forgot to add, that if you try the GC dope, you should consider using
some additional solvent. You may notice that GC is quite thick, and it
might need some help dispersing into the windings. By lowering the viscosity
of the dope, you may have better luck seeping into the troubled spot.
Just what solvent, I don't know for sure. You may try xylene or acetone
for example, but I'd be critical to keep the dilution very small to retain
your electrical requirements.......and let it dry COMPLETELY to keep
the potential of fire down !!
 
I had the (slab mounted) transformer in my yard explode one night when I
lived in Houston. Apparently ants had made a home in the box containing
it and eventually ate through the insulation, causing a short.
Click to expand...
Heheheh. I bet those ants had a nasty surprise, eh? :p - Reinhart
 
..>Thank you, yours is the most intelligent response. I will have to
persuade the dope to dry very slowly so it can seep into the windings.
Click to expand...
No, you're only showing appreciation for a post that offers a more reliable and
safer quick-fix solution to your problem.

But, note that the poster who gave you the advice to use GC dope doesn't offer
any guarantees. This is because the best way to fix the problem is still to
replace the coil with a new one.

If you want to be absolutely sure the the repair will be reliable, then you
ought to plunk down the cash for a replacement coil and perform the repair
properly.

There's an old saying in repair work, especially in automotive but it also
applies to any other service: "Never the time and money to do it right the
first time, but always the time and money to do it all over again."

Haven't the other jokers considered that power transformers are
IMMERSED in oil for cooling!
Click to expand...
That's with utility power transformers, and it's not just any variety of oil,
either. Plus, the oil is sealed inside and actually acts as an insulating
media.

You are talking about using oil to insulate a coil on a deflection yoke. This
is not a sealed assembly in the way a power transformer is and the oil may not
stay in place in the windings; eventually the oil can seep out and drip away
from the windings and the whole problem will simply begin all over again. The
only question is viscosity, and that only determines how long it will take the
oil to drip out. - Reinhart
 
In article <20040115001739.27825.00000046@mb-m28.aol.com>,
LASERandDVDfan <laseranddvdfan@aol.com> writes

Interesting video.
Click to expand...
Try this one :)

http://home.earthlink.net/~wmwph1/LugoSWR.mpg
 
On 15 Jan 2004 19:25:26 GMT ck508@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Lionel Wagner)
wrote:

"les" (les@rcn.com) writes:
If you insist on "fixing" the coil, and you think it's worth the effort, I
would suggest a high voltage insulator such as GC's high voltage dope, which comes in a
thick liquid. Brush it on, let dry, and hope for the best...............

Thank you, yours is the most intelligent response. I will have to
persuade the dope to dry very slowly so it can seep into the windings.

Haven't the other jokers considered that power transformers are
IMMERSED in oil for cooling!
Click to expand...
I thought the idea of just dripping some oil on this had some merit,
as well as some weak points.

Certainly there are oil-insulated transformers. I've even designed
one. The hardest part about this was how to keep all the oil on the
inside. If your coil is wound with very small wire, it's possible that
oil would creep in where it's needed, do what you want, and stay
there, but I'm afraid that it's more likely that there is a carbon
track by now, so that even if the oil gets there, it won't help.

You can use any oil, but Shell Diala is what most "real" oil filled
transformers use. It's not clear what the difference is, but Diala has
very low water and sulfur content and has been refined to be free of
compounds which might attack metals and insulators. My transformer was
a 150kV isolation transformer, so we sprung for the real thing.

If your fix works, I would expect the oil to all wick out over the
next few months. You'd prefer something with low viscosity that would
harden slowly over a day or so. I don't know what to recommend for
that.

And still, this won't do anything for an already existing carbon
track.

-
-----------------------------------------------
Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711 USA
-----------------------------------------------
 
What in the world is going on there, other than the obvious brilliant
display?

William
 
Looks like a switch was opened on the 3 phases but the current didnt
want to disconnect. Gotta be in the megavolts?

William R. Walsh wrote:

What in the world is going on there, other than the obvious brilliant
display?

William
Click to expand...
--
BFriedl
A+ Certified Technician
AIM: UACybercat
** Bear Down Arizona! **
******* Go Cats! *******
 
Jim Adney (jadney@vwtype3.org) writes:
On 15 Jan 2004 19:25:26 GMT ck508@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Lionel Wagner)
wrote:

"les" (les@rcn.com) writes:
If you insist on "fixing" the coil, and you think it's worth the effort, I
would suggest a high voltage insulator such as GC's high voltage dope, which comes in a
thick liquid. Brush it on, let dry, and hope for the best...............

Thank you, yours is the most intelligent response. I will have to
persuade the dope to dry very slowly so it can seep into the windings.

Haven't the other jokers considered that power transformers are
IMMERSED in oil for cooling!

I thought the idea of just dripping some oil on this had some merit,
as well as some weak points.

Certainly there are oil-insulated transformers. I've even designed
one. The hardest part about this was how to keep all the oil on the
inside. If your coil is wound with very small wire, it's possible that
oil would creep in where it's needed, do what you want, and stay
there, but I'm afraid that it's more likely that there is a carbon
track by now, so that even if the oil gets there, it won't help.

You can use any oil, but Shell Diala is what most "real" oil filled
transformers use. It's not clear what the difference is, but Diala has
very low water and sulfur content and has been refined to be free of
compounds which might attack metals and insulators. My transformer was
a 150kV isolation transformer, so we sprung for the real thing.

If your fix works, I would expect the oil to all wick out over the
next few months. You'd prefer something with low viscosity that would
harden slowly over a day or so. I don't know what to recommend for
that.

And still, this won't do anything for an already existing carbon
track.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your excellent response. In view of the possible fire
hazard of using oil, and it running out; I am thinking of using GC
Corona Dope. It is a polyurethane like varnish. I have to figure
out how to make it slow drying so it can seep in...


--
,_,
Lionel The more I hear about other people's problems, (O,O)
Wagner the better I feel about my own. ( )
--------------<best viewed with fixed width font>-----------"-"-
 
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