office setup

[Colin Ž]

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43659fa4$0$20419$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

star network topology you say. and the other choices would be...?

P2P - your ignorance is showing !

And you need to know the difference between an ohm and an arsehole.

You have to put the correct quantity of the right one on the end of each
cable.

 

[Damien McBain]

The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:03:00 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:

The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:10 +1100, "Sam" <sam_man@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have taken
some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether that advice is
good or bad. I am hoping that the collective brains trust in these groups
might shed some light on the subject. Please bear in mind that I am not far
advanced from computer illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible
then that might be the explanation.

We have 4 staff, each with their own stand alone computers. I am going to
acquire four new computers. Those in my office tell me that I need to change
the current arrangement to an office network.



What is wrong with what you have now? Why would you want to change
what you have? Does what you have work? Would you prefer more
peformance? If so, how would you like an increase in performance? How
will buying 4 new PC's help your business perform better? How would
you like your business to peform better?


The use will be e-mail, web searching and small accounting system.

How do you currently use email? Does everyone have a modem? Do you use
a centralised server for distributing email?

What about web serching? IS that done via individual dial up accounts
too?

What accounting system do you use?


The questions I would like to answer for the new office network are

1. is a server as well as the 4 desk tops a good idea. ie what would a
server add? Is it just the ability to view/access others files? What are the
relative advantages and disadvantages of adding a server eg accessibility
and cost effectiveness?

How long is a piece of string? If my string was longer, could i do
more? If the string was shorter, would i save more money? Perhaps
several peices of string would distribute the load better?


2. Is Celeron or AMD preferable vis-a-vis pentium 4.

I prefer the short string.


3. Are there any issues bout these being accessible and cost effective?

I dont think you really know what you want here, that is the big
issue. Buying 4 new computers just becuase your staff want them may
not be the right thing to do. You need to tell us your problems rather
than asking for advice on something that no one here can answer. What
has prompted you to investigate buying new PC's?

IT is my life now, and one thing i can assure you is that 95% of my
customers do not know, nor understand what they want. You need to
analyse your business before you ask questions. Have a good solid
think about where your problems are, then use that as a grounding to
ask questions. Think aboout how you can increase performance, and this
may lay in buying PC's that dont crash or a faster.

You boffin may be trying to sell you his business. You need to focus
on your business.

I'd be amazed if anyone would actually buy anything from a pretentious
smart arse like you m8.


Funny that, i usually find that business like it when i ask them what
they need and force them to question what they really need. I used to
outsell the sales guys in my last job, and guess who always landed the
big contracts?

That's fair enough even if it's true, but in your previous post you were
insinuating that the fella is a complete dope who knows nothing about his
business, or has not already analysed his business. You don't know anything
about his process to date, you just assume it's flawed. Pretentious.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:13:32 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:46:33 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:


Sam wrote:

snip


A server can be a good idea provided you are able to maintain it. It's a
good idea to have some kind of UPS to power the server throughout short
power blackouts and brownouts, and to gracefully shut it down when the
power is out for extended periods.



I find that for a significatn percentage of small business that a UPS
is a mere waste of time. A decent ups costs a lot, and needs to be
maintained. Neither of which small business are usually interesed. A
good surge supressor will usually suffice.

With storms and trees causing power cables to short and periodically
dropping the power out, I found that haveing the servers reset several
times an hour a real pain. Since I put a UPS on each I've had no
problems. Maybe your experience is different.

What I am saying, is that a lot of people will not buy a decent UPS
and when they buy the cheap one they think it will last forever.

For example, last Friday night I had a customer who had a UPS fail
that would have cost them around $25000 in lost business. If they had
bought a decent UPS and had it serviced every 6 months it would not
have been a problem. If they had a surge protector, they would not
have had a problem.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:04:11 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:46:33 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:


Sam wrote:

snip


A server can be a good idea provided you are able to maintain it. It's a
good idea to have some kind of UPS to power the server throughout short
power blackouts and brownouts, and to gracefully shut it down when the
power is out for extended periods.



I find that for a significatn percentage of small business that a UPS
is a mere waste of time. A decent ups costs a lot, and needs to be
maintained. Neither of which small business are usually interesed. A
good surge supressor will usually suffice.



A server can add:
- file sharing.
- centralised backups.
- email server. The desktops send the email to your server which is
responsible for sending it on to the destination, as well as receiving
all the email in the background, and the desktops access the server to
receive email. You can also add virus and spam filtering to your local
server. Also means that local (internal) email does not need to go out
over the Internet.
- local dns cache, which can speed up Internet accesses.
- dhcp server.
- internal web server for intranet web pages.
- centralised application serving/sharing, which could include web based
applications on the internal web server.


A standard workstation can do all the above. The question how much
data needs tp be shared, that will determine when and where a server
is appropriate.


Why would you put an email server and web server on a workstation? If it
is powered down when the user goes home, no-one gets any email??

If you have a small business where one user does very little work then
why would you not make there workstation a server? More to the point,
how many 4 pc businesses would be running a web server and email
server locally?

 

[The Real Andy]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:26:59 GMT, Damien McBain
<news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:

The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:03:00 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:

The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:10 +1100, "Sam" <sam_man@hotmail.com> wrote:

I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have taken
some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether that advice is
good or bad. I am hoping that the collective brains trust in these groups
might shed some light on the subject. Please bear in mind that I am not far
advanced from computer illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible
then that might be the explanation.

We have 4 staff, each with their own stand alone computers. I am going to
acquire four new computers. Those in my office tell me that I need to change
the current arrangement to an office network.



What is wrong with what you have now? Why would you want to change
what you have? Does what you have work? Would you prefer more
peformance? If so, how would you like an increase in performance? How
will buying 4 new PC's help your business perform better? How would
you like your business to peform better?


The use will be e-mail, web searching and small accounting system.

How do you currently use email? Does everyone have a modem? Do you use
a centralised server for distributing email?

What about web serching? IS that done via individual dial up accounts
too?

What accounting system do you use?


The questions I would like to answer for the new office network are

1. is a server as well as the 4 desk tops a good idea. ie what would a
server add? Is it just the ability to view/access others files? What are the
relative advantages and disadvantages of adding a server eg accessibility
and cost effectiveness?

How long is a piece of string? If my string was longer, could i do
more? If the string was shorter, would i save more money? Perhaps
several peices of string would distribute the load better?


2. Is Celeron or AMD preferable vis-a-vis pentium 4.

I prefer the short string.


3. Are there any issues bout these being accessible and cost effective?

I dont think you really know what you want here, that is the big
issue. Buying 4 new computers just becuase your staff want them may
not be the right thing to do. You need to tell us your problems rather
than asking for advice on something that no one here can answer. What
has prompted you to investigate buying new PC's?

IT is my life now, and one thing i can assure you is that 95% of my
customers do not know, nor understand what they want. You need to
analyse your business before you ask questions. Have a good solid
think about where your problems are, then use that as a grounding to
ask questions. Think aboout how you can increase performance, and this
may lay in buying PC's that dont crash or a faster.

You boffin may be trying to sell you his business. You need to focus
on your business.

I'd be amazed if anyone would actually buy anything from a pretentious
smart arse like you m8.


Funny that, i usually find that business like it when i ask them what
they need and force them to question what they really need. I used to
outsell the sales guys in my last job, and guess who always landed the
big contracts?

That's fair enough even if it's true, but in your previous post you were
insinuating that the fella is a complete dope who knows nothing about his
business, or has not already analysed his business. You don't know anything
about his process to date, you just assume it's flawed. Pretentious.

Hang on a tick, let me quote the OP.

"I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have
taken some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether
that advice is good or bad."

"Please bear in mind that I am not far advanced from computer
illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible then that might be
the explanation."

I was not assuming he did not know his business. I was assuming that
based on the comments that he did not understand how the computers or
data requirements affected his business.

 

[spodosaurus]

The Real Andy wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:26:59 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:


The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:03:00 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:


The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:10 +1100, "Sam" <sam_man@hotmail.com> wrote:


I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have taken
some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether that advice is
good or bad. I am hoping that the collective brains trust in these groups
might shed some light on the subject. Please bear in mind that I am not far
advanced from computer illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible
then that might be the explanation.

We have 4 staff, each with their own stand alone computers. I am going to
acquire four new computers. Those in my office tell me that I need to change
the current arrangement to an office network.



What is wrong with what you have now? Why would you want to change
what you have? Does what you have work? Would you prefer more
peformance? If so, how would you like an increase in performance? How
will buying 4 new PC's help your business perform better? How would
you like your business to peform better?



The use will be e-mail, web searching and small accounting system.

How do you currently use email? Does everyone have a modem? Do you use
a centralised server for distributing email?

What about web serching? IS that done via individual dial up accounts
too?

What accounting system do you use?


The questions I would like to answer for the new office network are

1. is a server as well as the 4 desk tops a good idea. ie what would a
server add? Is it just the ability to view/access others files? What are the
relative advantages and disadvantages of adding a server eg accessibility
and cost effectiveness?

How long is a piece of string? If my string was longer, could i do
more? If the string was shorter, would i save more money? Perhaps
several peices of string would distribute the load better?


2. Is Celeron or AMD preferable vis-a-vis pentium 4.

I prefer the short string.


3. Are there any issues bout these being accessible and cost effective?

I dont think you really know what you want here, that is the big
issue. Buying 4 new computers just becuase your staff want them may
not be the right thing to do. You need to tell us your problems rather
than asking for advice on something that no one here can answer. What
has prompted you to investigate buying new PC's?

IT is my life now, and one thing i can assure you is that 95% of my
customers do not know, nor understand what they want. You need to
analyse your business before you ask questions. Have a good solid
think about where your problems are, then use that as a grounding to
ask questions. Think aboout how you can increase performance, and this
may lay in buying PC's that dont crash or a faster.

You boffin may be trying to sell you his business. You need to focus
on your business.

I'd be amazed if anyone would actually buy anything from a pretentious
smart arse like you m8.


Funny that, i usually find that business like it when i ask them what
they need and force them to question what they really need. I used to
outsell the sales guys in my last job, and guess who always landed the
big contracts?

That's fair enough even if it's true, but in your previous post you were
insinuating that the fella is a complete dope who knows nothing about his
business, or has not already analysed his business. You don't know anything
about his process to date, you just assume it's flawed. Pretentious.


Hang on a tick, let me quote the OP.

"I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have
taken some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether
that advice is good or bad."

"Please bear in mind that I am not far advanced from computer
illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible then that might be
the explanation."

I was not assuming he did not know his business. I was assuming that
based on the comments that he did not understand how the computers or
data requirements affected his business.

And I got the same impression from the OP's post. I'm really not sure
what crawled up Damien's backside and laid eggs, as he still hasn't
responded to my other post in this thread asking him what precisely he
took issue with.

Ari


--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[swanny]

The Real Andy wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:04:11 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:


The Real Andy wrote:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:46:33 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:



Sam wrote:

snip

A server can be a good idea provided you are able to maintain it. It's a
good idea to have some kind of UPS to power the server throughout short
power blackouts and brownouts, and to gracefully shut it down when the
power is out for extended periods.



I find that for a significatn percentage of small business that a UPS
is a mere waste of time. A decent ups costs a lot, and needs to be
maintained. Neither of which small business are usually interesed. A
good surge supressor will usually suffice.




A server can add:
- file sharing.
- centralised backups.
- email server. The desktops send the email to your server which is
responsible for sending it on to the destination, as well as receiving
all the email in the background, and the desktops access the server to
receive email. You can also add virus and spam filtering to your local
server. Also means that local (internal) email does not need to go out
over the Internet.
- local dns cache, which can speed up Internet accesses.
- dhcp server.
- internal web server for intranet web pages.
- centralised application serving/sharing, which could include web based
applications on the internal web server.


A standard workstation can do all the above. The question how much
data needs tp be shared, that will determine when and where a server
is appropriate.



Why would you put an email server and web server on a workstation? If it
is powered down when the user goes home, no-one gets any email??


If you have a small business where one user does very little work then
why would you not make there workstation a server? More to the point,
how many 4 pc businesses would be running a web server and email
server locally?

We don't know much about this specific business or how it operates.
I know several small businesses that have a server and a small handful
of PC's or laptops as workstations for accounts, quoting etc. There are
good reasons to do it this way, particularly if the workstations are all
laptops used and carried by sales staff and plugged into the network
when in the office. A centralised imap mail server or webmail mail
server also helps here when staff are travelling.

 

[swanny]

The Real Andy wrote:

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:13:32 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:


The Real Andy wrote:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:46:33 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:



Sam wrote:

snip

A server can be a good idea provided you are able to maintain it. It's a
good idea to have some kind of UPS to power the server throughout short
power blackouts and brownouts, and to gracefully shut it down when the
power is out for extended periods.



I find that for a significatn percentage of small business that a UPS
is a mere waste of time. A decent ups costs a lot, and needs to be
maintained. Neither of which small business are usually interesed. A
good surge supressor will usually suffice.

With storms and trees causing power cables to short and periodically
dropping the power out, I found that haveing the servers reset several
times an hour a real pain. Since I put a UPS on each I've had no
problems. Maybe your experience is different.


What I am saying, is that a lot of people will not buy a decent UPS
and when they buy the cheap one they think it will last forever.

For example, last Friday night I had a customer who had a UPS fail
that would have cost them around $25000 in lost business. If they had
bought a decent UPS and had it serviced every 6 months it would not
have been a problem. If they had a surge protector, they would not
have had a problem.

It should be part of a maintenance plan. Most businesses can understand
this, the same way as they understand software upgrades and patches.
It's the same for hard drives, after 2 years they get swapped out for
new ones.

 

[Damien McBain]

spodosaurus committed to the eternal aether...:

The Real Andy wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:26:59 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:


The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:03:00 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:


The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:


On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:10 +1100, "Sam" <sam_man@hotmail.com> wrote:


I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have taken
some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether that advice is
good or bad. I am hoping that the collective brains trust in these groups
might shed some light on the subject. Please bear in mind that I am not far
advanced from computer illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible
then that might be the explanation.

We have 4 staff, each with their own stand alone computers. I am going to
acquire four new computers. Those in my office tell me that I need to change
the current arrangement to an office network.



What is wrong with what you have now? Why would you want to change
what you have? Does what you have work? Would you prefer more
peformance? If so, how would you like an increase in performance? How
will buying 4 new PC's help your business perform better? How would
you like your business to peform better?



The use will be e-mail, web searching and small accounting system.

How do you currently use email? Does everyone have a modem? Do you use
a centralised server for distributing email?

What about web serching? IS that done via individual dial up accounts
too?

What accounting system do you use?


The questions I would like to answer for the new office network are

1. is a server as well as the 4 desk tops a good idea. ie what would a
server add? Is it just the ability to view/access others files? What are the
relative advantages and disadvantages of adding a server eg accessibility
and cost effectiveness?

How long is a piece of string? If my string was longer, could i do
more? If the string was shorter, would i save more money? Perhaps
several peices of string would distribute the load better?


2. Is Celeron or AMD preferable vis-a-vis pentium 4.

I prefer the short string.


3. Are there any issues bout these being accessible and cost effective?

I dont think you really know what you want here, that is the big
issue. Buying 4 new computers just becuase your staff want them may
not be the right thing to do. You need to tell us your problems rather
than asking for advice on something that no one here can answer. What
has prompted you to investigate buying new PC's?

IT is my life now, and one thing i can assure you is that 95% of my
customers do not know, nor understand what they want. You need to
analyse your business before you ask questions. Have a good solid
think about where your problems are, then use that as a grounding to
ask questions. Think aboout how you can increase performance, and this
may lay in buying PC's that dont crash or a faster.

You boffin may be trying to sell you his business. You need to focus
on your business.

I'd be amazed if anyone would actually buy anything from a pretentious
smart arse like you m8.


Funny that, i usually find that business like it when i ask them what
they need and force them to question what they really need. I used to
outsell the sales guys in my last job, and guess who always landed the
big contracts?

That's fair enough even if it's true, but in your previous post you were
insinuating that the fella is a complete dope who knows nothing about his
business, or has not already analysed his business. You don't know anything
about his process to date, you just assume it's flawed. Pretentious.

Hang on a tick, let me quote the OP.

"I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have
taken some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether
that advice is good or bad."

"Please bear in mind that I am not far advanced from computer
illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible then that might be
the explanation."

I was not assuming he did not know his business. I was assuming that
based on the comments that he did not understand how the computers or
data requirements affected his business.

And I got the same impression from the OP's post. I'm really not sure
what crawled up Damien's backside and laid eggs, as he still hasn't
responded to my other post in this thread asking him what precisely he
took issue with.

It would have been along the lines of what I responded to Andy's with.

I don't think the OP indicated any ignorance about his business, only about
computers. For all we know, he's briefed the 'boffin' about what his needs
are, the boffin has proposed a solution and OP is soliciting some feedback
from this petshop.

Andy wrote "You need to analyse your business before you ask questions".
Presumptuous at minimum.

BTW, I don't necessarily disagree with the advice, it's just worded in a
smart-arse disingenuous way.

 

[The Real Andy]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:33:05 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

<snp>

With storms and trees causing power cables to short and periodically
dropping the power out, I found that haveing the servers reset several
times an hour a real pain. Since I put a UPS on each I've had no
problems. Maybe your experience is different.


What I am saying, is that a lot of people will not buy a decent UPS
and when they buy the cheap one they think it will last forever.

For example, last Friday night I had a customer who had a UPS fail
that would have cost them around $25000 in lost business. If they had
bought a decent UPS and had it serviced every 6 months it would not
have been a problem. If they had a surge protector, they would not
have had a problem.

It should be part of a maintenance plan. Most businesses can understand
this, the same way as they understand software upgrades and patches.
It's the same for hard drives, after 2 years they get swapped out for
new ones.

Trust me, most small businesses dont understand this.

 

[nbs]

peer to peer with four computers ya reckon

"Colin ." <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:h8i9f.5118$Hj2.1725@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43659fa4$0$20419$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
star network topology you say. and the other choices would be...?


P2P - your ignorance is showing !

And you need to know the difference between an ohm and an arsehole.

You have to put the correct quantity of the right one on the end of each
cable.

 

[Sandgroper]

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43659fa4$0$20419$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

star network topology you say. and the other choices would be...?

Maybe you are showing your ignorance a bit .
There are a few choices of a network , depending on the size of the set-up
involved and I was merely telling the OP the exact type of network to use
since he has no experience with computers or computer networks.

The other networks that can be used are

Ring
Bus
Tree

And you also have within each group different types of networks.
Read up on them , you might learn something.



--
------------------------------------
True Multitasking is having three computers and a chair with wheels.


Sandgroper
------------------------------------
Remove KNICKERS to Email
steveray@KNICKERSiinet.net.au

 

[swanny]

The Real Andy wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:33:05 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

snp

With storms and trees causing power cables to short and periodically
dropping the power out, I found that haveing the servers reset several
times an hour a real pain. Since I put a UPS on each I've had no
problems. Maybe your experience is different.


What I am saying, is that a lot of people will not buy a decent UPS
and when they buy the cheap one they think it will last forever.

For example, last Friday night I had a customer who had a UPS fail
that would have cost them around $25000 in lost business. If they had
bought a decent UPS and had it serviced every 6 months it would not
have been a problem. If they had a surge protector, they would not
have had a problem.

It should be part of a maintenance plan. Most businesses can understand
this, the same way as they understand software upgrades and patches.
It's the same for hard drives, after 2 years they get swapped out for
new ones.


Trust me, most small businesses dont understand this.

They do if you explain it to them. Think of it as being like having your

car serviced regularly, rather than taking it to the garage after it
breaks down.

 

[Colin Ž]

Oh so you do know smartarse - try PTPP then.

And the ohms and arseholes still apply.


"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43660b48$0$20428$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

peer to peer with four computers ya reckon

"Colin ." <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:h8i9f.5118$Hj2.1725@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43659fa4$0$20419$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
star network topology you say. and the other choices would be...?


P2P - your ignorance is showing !

And you need to know the difference between an ohm and an arsehole.

You have to put the correct quantity of the right one on the end of each
cable.

 

[nbs]

"Colin ." <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:K%w9f.5590$Hj2.4865@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Oh so you do know smartarse - try PTPP then.

Yeah PTPP would be very useful in this situation too wouldn't it

What I was inferring by my original response to the 'star topology' advice
was that there are no practical topology options for the desired network.
Show me some generally available, cost-effective products other than a
single ethernet switch that would make any practical performance difference
to a four or five node, general purpose office network. Why advise someone
who admits to knowing next to nothing about networking, about technologies
that have no relevance?

 

[nbs]

"Sandgroper" <steveray@KNICKERSiinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:436685d0$0$20397$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:43659fa4$0$20419$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
star network topology you say. and the other choices would be...?

Maybe you are showing your ignorance a bit .
There are a few choices of a network , depending on the size of the set-up
involved and I was merely telling the OP the exact type of network to use
since he has no experience with computers or computer networks.

The other networks that can be used are

Ring
Bus
Tree

And you also have within each group different types of networks.
Read up on them , you might learn something.

My apologies, it was a rhetorical question. The OP is a self-confessed "not
far advanced from computer illiterate" so any discussion of network
topologies is hardly relevent. You don't have any practical choices when
connecting such a small number of PCs because there is no point - there
would be no performance gains to be had by implementing a certain topology.

If a customer asked me to implement any particular network topology I'd
immediately know they have no clue, unless it was for a reasonably large
network and/or they had particularly high throughput requirements, AND they
had some credible reason for requesting it. Where specialist networking is
required you need to get professional advice. I would argue that even for a
small business you should get professional advice because unlike your home
internet-sharing setup, businesses need to maximise functionality and
reliability.

 

[Colin Ž]

Well, you weren't too bloody clear.

I agree, the suggestions have been all for BHP not some little office.

Yes, a simple switch is the way to go.

All this server stuff is way over the top if you don't know the needs. Just
use a workstation as the file/print server.


"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4366ceac$0$20397$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

"Colin ." <tobyjug7@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:K%w9f.5590$Hj2.4865@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Oh so you do know smartarse - try PTPP then.


Yeah PTPP would be very useful in this situation too wouldn't it

What I was inferring by my original response to the 'star topology' advice
was that there are no practical topology options for the desired network.
Show me some generally available, cost-effective products other than a
single ethernet switch that would make any practical performance
difference to a four or five node, general purpose office network. Why
advise someone who admits to knowing next to nothing about networking,
about technologies that have no relevance?

 

[The Real Andy]

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:10:27 GMT, swanny
<blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

The Real Andy wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:33:05 GMT, swanny
blahgswan3blah@blahbigpondblah.comblah.blahau> wrote:

snp

With storms and trees causing power cables to short and periodically
dropping the power out, I found that haveing the servers reset several
times an hour a real pain. Since I put a UPS on each I've had no
problems. Maybe your experience is different.


What I am saying, is that a lot of people will not buy a decent UPS
and when they buy the cheap one they think it will last forever.

For example, last Friday night I had a customer who had a UPS fail
that would have cost them around $25000 in lost business. If they had
bought a decent UPS and had it serviced every 6 months it would not
have been a problem. If they had a surge protector, they would not
have had a problem.

It should be part of a maintenance plan. Most businesses can understand
this, the same way as they understand software upgrades and patches.
It's the same for hard drives, after 2 years they get swapped out for
new ones.


Trust me, most small businesses dont understand this.

They do if you explain it to them. Think of it as being like having your
car serviced regularly, rather than taking it to the garage after it
breaks down.

You obviously work in a different industry to me!

 

[spodosaurus]

Damien McBain wrote:

spodosaurus committed to the eternal aether...:


The Real Andy wrote:

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:26:59 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:



The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:



On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:03:00 GMT, Damien McBain
news1@themadbomber.net> wrote:



The Real Andy committed to the eternal aether...:



On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 10:01:10 +1100, "Sam" <sam_man@hotmail.com> wrote:



I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have taken
some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether that advice is
good or bad. I am hoping that the collective brains trust in these groups
might shed some light on the subject. Please bear in mind that I am not far
advanced from computer illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible
then that might be the explanation.

We have 4 staff, each with their own stand alone computers. I am going to
acquire four new computers. Those in my office tell me that I need to change
the current arrangement to an office network.



What is wrong with what you have now? Why would you want to change
what you have? Does what you have work? Would you prefer more
peformance? If so, how would you like an increase in performance? How
will buying 4 new PC's help your business perform better? How would
you like your business to peform better?




The use will be e-mail, web searching and small accounting system.

How do you currently use email? Does everyone have a modem? Do you use
a centralised server for distributing email?

What about web serching? IS that done via individual dial up accounts
too?

What accounting system do you use?



The questions I would like to answer for the new office network are

1. is a server as well as the 4 desk tops a good idea. ie what would a
server add? Is it just the ability to view/access others files? What are the
relative advantages and disadvantages of adding a server eg accessibility
and cost effectiveness?

How long is a piece of string? If my string was longer, could i do
more? If the string was shorter, would i save more money? Perhaps
several peices of string would distribute the load better?



2. Is Celeron or AMD preferable vis-a-vis pentium 4.

I prefer the short string.



3. Are there any issues bout these being accessible and cost effective?

I dont think you really know what you want here, that is the big
issue. Buying 4 new computers just becuase your staff want them may
not be the right thing to do. You need to tell us your problems rather
than asking for advice on something that no one here can answer. What
has prompted you to investigate buying new PC's?

IT is my life now, and one thing i can assure you is that 95% of my
customers do not know, nor understand what they want. You need to
analyse your business before you ask questions. Have a good solid
think about where your problems are, then use that as a grounding to
ask questions. Think aboout how you can increase performance, and this
may lay in buying PC's that dont crash or a faster.

You boffin may be trying to sell you his business. You need to focus
on your business.

I'd be amazed if anyone would actually buy anything from a pretentious
smart arse like you m8.


Funny that, i usually find that business like it when i ask them what
they need and force them to question what they really need. I used to
outsell the sales guys in my last job, and guess who always landed the
big contracts?

That's fair enough even if it's true, but in your previous post you were
insinuating that the fella is a complete dope who knows nothing about his
business, or has not already analysed his business. You don't know anything
about his process to date, you just assume it's flawed. Pretentious.


Hang on a tick, let me quote the OP.

"I am interested in getting views on a proposed office network. I have
taken some advice from a boffin but have no way of checking whether
that advice is good or bad."

"Please bear in mind that I am not far advanced from computer
illiterate. If these questions are incomprehensible then that might be
the explanation."

I was not assuming he did not know his business. I was assuming that
based on the comments that he did not understand how the computers or
data requirements affected his business.


And I got the same impression from the OP's post. I'm really not sure
what crawled up Damien's backside and laid eggs, as he still hasn't
responded to my other post in this thread asking him what precisely he
took issue with.


It would have been along the lines of what I responded to Andy's with.

I don't think the OP indicated any ignorance about his business, only about
computers. For all we know, he's briefed the 'boffin' about what his needs
are, the boffin has proposed a solution and OP is soliciting some feedback
from this petshop.

Andy wrote "You need to analyse your business before you ask questions".
Presumptuous at minimum.

How so? He needs to determine if an upgrade is necessary. If so, then he
needs to analyse what aspects of his business will possibly improve from
an upgrade. Then you can start looking at other options. For all we
know, the current computers are perfectly adequate and upgrading those
is not necessary, but perhaps adding a server would improve interoffice
cooperation and communication. Maybe a router behind a broadband
connection is all that's needed to improve productivity.

BTW, I don't necessarily disagree with the advice, it's just worded in a
smart-arse disingenuous way.

I didn't get that at all. :-/

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

 

[Sandgroper]

"nbs" <nbs@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4366d224$0$20450$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...

My apologies, it was a rhetorical question. The OP is a self-confessed
"not
far advanced from computer illiterate" so any discussion of network
topologies is hardly relevent. You don't have any practical choices when
connecting such a small number of PCs because there is no point - there
would be no performance gains to be had by implementing a certain
topology.

Yeah , one of the reasons why I mentioned a star network topology is because
the OP is sort of like computer illiterate and I was giving a basic overview
and explanation of a small office network and some additional idea so that
he could do a bit of a quick search to see what was involved.

Normally , to design a network for a business , it would involve asking a
lot of questions to define the business , the businesses needs and future
needs ...etc , but in this case I was just giving a quick overview for a
standard small network to somebody that is not very computer literate.


--
------------------------------------
True Multitasking is having three computers and a chair with wheels.


Sandgroper
------------------------------------
Remove KNICKERS to Email
steveray@KNICKERSiinet.net.au

If a customer asked me to implement any particular network topology I'd
immediately know they have no clue, unless it was for a reasonably large
network and/or they had particularly high throughput requirements, AND
they
had some credible reason for requesting it. Where specialist networking is
required you need to get professional advice. I would argue that even for
a
small business you should get professional advice because unlike your home
internet-sharing setup, businesses need to maximise functionality and
reliability.