Nobody wants to be an apprentice these days.

[Ken Taylor]

"David L. Jones" <tronnort_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f8d1ae2.2542469@News.CIS.DFN.DE...

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:38:16 GMT, "Andrew Howard"
andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote:
"The real Andy" <ihatehifitrolls@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f826132$0$4845$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Cant get one bite. No interest at all. Been looking but no one wants to
be
an apprentice these days.

Well, if anyone is offering an apprenticeship in Electronics in the
Sydney
area, I would be happy to check it out.

I'm a 17 year old student who is about to start year 11. I've been doing
electronics as a hobby for about 3-4 years, and am interested in doing it
as
a career. I would be willing to leave school to do this if it came to
that.

Andrew Howard

Crikey!
A real live young and keen electronics hobbyist with good spelling and
grammar - someone snap him up quick!

Do you know what area of electronics you want to get into Andrew?
Have you thought about doing Tafe or Uni classes part time while you
are still at school?, it will give you an even better head start.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

Ditto the 'remain-at-school' thought. Don't limit your options - you're
unlikely to really know which way you want to go in the field until you've
done some 'live' work for a while, and many require more time in a
classroom. However the desire to get out and 'do things' is great and bodes
well.

If you want some direction on how to get a qualification and training I can
put you on to some old chums in Sydney who still take on occasional trainees
(but you have to have done most of the TAFE course already). It may be worth
a chat anyway to get an idea of how to go about getting a qualification.

Ken

 

[Andrew Howard]

Do you know what area of electronics you want to get into Andrew?

I'm not completly sure, possibly audio electronics?

Have you thought about doing Tafe or Uni classes part time while you
are still at school?, it will give you an even better head start.

There seems to be 2 Tafe courses available, one is an absolute beginner's
introduction to electronics (learning about basics like ohm's law, dc and ac
theory, etc.) The next one is a more advanced one that you do while being an
apprentice.

I was planning on doing the beginners one during year 12, so I can wave it
at people to help convince them to take me as an apprentice. Then during
that, I could take the second course.

If anyone's got anything to say about this, I would be happy to hear it.

Andrew Howard

 

[Ken Taylor]

"Andrew Howard" <andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:h2sjb.152861$bo1.101773@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Do you know what area of electronics you want to get into Andrew?

I'm not completly sure, possibly audio electronics?

Have you thought about doing Tafe or Uni classes part time while you
are still at school?, it will give you an even better head start.

There seems to be 2 Tafe courses available, one is an absolute beginner's
introduction to electronics (learning about basics like ohm's law, dc and
ac
theory, etc.) The next one is a more advanced one that you do while being
an
apprentice.

I was planning on doing the beginners one during year 12, so I can wave it
at people to help convince them to take me as an apprentice. Then during
that, I could take the second course.

If anyone's got anything to say about this, I would be happy to hear it.

Andrew Howard

Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path

immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma?? I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Ken

 

[Alex Gibson]

"Andrew Howard" <andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:h2sjb.152861$bo1.101773@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

Do you know what area of electronics you want to get into Andrew?

I'm not completly sure, possibly audio electronics?

Have you thought about doing Tafe or Uni classes part time while you
are still at school?, it will give you an even better head start.

There seems to be 2 Tafe courses available, one is an absolute beginner's
introduction to electronics (learning about basics like ohm's law, dc and ac
theory, etc.) The next one is a more advanced one that you do while being an
apprentice.

I was planning on doing the beginners one during year 12, so I can wave it
at people to help convince them to take me as an apprentice. Then during
that, I could take the second course.

If anyone's got anything to say about this, I would be happy to hear it.

Andrew Howard

I agree with what Ken said.

I'm at uni now - UTS (+ part time contract design and programming work).
Did an apprenticeship with Qantas as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Avionics.
Doing Applied Physics and Electrical Engineering, 4 years down with at least 2 years to go.
(supposed to be six years full time).

You will find most of the teachers / lecturers at tafe are a lot lot better
and have a hell of a lot more(usually) practical knowledge than most
uni lecturers.

If in the future you want to go to uni, having
down a Associate Diploma and a few years practical experiance
shouldn't have to many hassles except maybe for maths.

And if you have down that you should be able to do a elect eng or computer systems degree
in around 2 years full time as you should get quite a few exemptions.
Should get exemptions for some of the crap intro subjects but
will still have to do the incredibly
boring IEAust prescribed management and communications subjects.

I'm currently tutoring introductory digital systems
cplds - complex programmable logic vprogrammed via schematics
and pic microprocessors.

Main trouble is very few of the classes even bother to read
the documents and can't solder for shit.
Students were required to assemble their own kits
but due to major hassles with crap soldering, the powers that be have decided
to get the kits fully assembled to avoid having to provide so much support.
This is supposed to be the second or third subject they have do some soldering in.

I've never seen so many balls of solder, some up to 5mm in size.
Thru hole board with smallest components being 1/4 watt resistors and ceramic caps.

The electronics subjects taught by the physics department are a hell of a lot better
than those taught by engineering.
Engineering electronics has 4 labs of a couple hours each in a semester
where as Physics electronics had 2 2hour labs each week.

Only thing is Physics subject went down to electron level where as eng subject
treats everything as a blackbox(this goes in that comes out).
In physics had to even do current flow inside an opamp.

Alex

 

[Andrew Howard]

Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path
immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma?? I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Is this Associate Diploma a TAFE course, or is it run by something else?

 

[David L. Jones]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:58:35 GMT, "Andrew Howard"
<andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote:

Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path
immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma?? I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Is this Associate Diploma a TAFE course, or is it run by something else?

Yes it is a Tafe couse. The best and most recognised course you can do
in electronics apart from a degree. It is a very popular course, and
some HSC graduates choose to do it over a uni EE degree. Some argue
that the 3 year Tafe Diploma is a better course than many 4 year
university degrees. It's a moot point, but many good Dip graduates do
go straight into professional design roles ahead of run of the mill
uni graduates.
The Associate Diploma is now known as the Advanced Diploma.
You can find out more info here:
http://www.tafensw.edu.au/cgi-rdb/rdbweb/handbook/xgetocc_to2?VASCO_CODE=3124+++&VASCO_NM=ELECTRONIC+ENGINEERING+ASSOCIATE+PROFESSIONALS&PRINTVER_IND=N

(I hope the link wrap works...)

You can specialise in computer or industrial areas, and maybe others.

It is an excellent course, and I would also highly recommend that you
check out this option over an apprenticeship. It is different to any
"trades" course and will give you much more scope to move into
electronics design as a "para-professional" or
"associate-professional" if that is what you want to do. The Diploma
is also recognised for advanced standing towards uni degrees and other
relevant courses.
If you do a "trade" level course then it may be much harder to work
your way up to a professional role, than if you jump straight into the
Diploma.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)

 

[Ken Taylor]

"David L. Jones" <tronnort_@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f93d079.2245633@News.CIS.DFN.DE...

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:58:35 GMT, "Andrew Howard"
andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote:
Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path
immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma??
I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can
enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Is this Associate Diploma a TAFE course, or is it run by something else?

Yes it is a Tafe couse. The best and most recognised course you can do
in electronics apart from a degree. It is a very popular course, and
some HSC graduates choose to do it over a uni EE degree. Some argue
that the 3 year Tafe Diploma is a better course than many 4 year
university degrees. It's a moot point, but many good Dip graduates do
go straight into professional design roles ahead of run of the mill
uni graduates.
The Associate Diploma is now known as the Advanced Diploma.
You can find out more info here:

http://www.tafensw.edu.au/cgi-rdb/rdbweb/handbook/xgetocc_to2?VASCO_CODE=3124+++&VASCO_NM=ELECTRONIC+ENGINEERING+ASSOCIATE+PROFESSIONALS&PRINTVER_IND=N

(I hope the link wrap works...)

You can specialise in computer or industrial areas, and maybe others.

It is an excellent course, and I would also highly recommend that you
check out this option over an apprenticeship. It is different to any
"trades" course and will give you much more scope to move into
electronics design as a "para-professional" or
"associate-professional" if that is what you want to do. The Diploma
is also recognised for advanced standing towards uni degrees and other
relevant courses.
If you do a "trade" level course then it may be much harder to work
your way up to a professional role, than if you jump straight into the
Diploma.

Regards
Dave

What Dave said, with bells on. Another good thing is that the Diploma
path gets you in there in a way in which you'll be 'doing things' hands-on
far earlier than engineering. Certainly for me it was the way to go (I
fluked it - engineering wouldn't have been my thing to start with. It was
only later I got a bit more cerebral).

You can do many post-grad type courses as well to beef up your qual's and
knowledge too once you have the Dip and some experience. The Dip looks good
on a resume, even at the beginning, particularly when you have some hobbyist
experience to show.

Ken

 

[Rotes Sapiens]

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:58:35 GMT, "Andrew Howard"
<andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote:

Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path
immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma?? I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Is this Associate Diploma a TAFE course, or is it run by something else?

Unless you want to end up wiring up buildings or fixing radios and TVs
I wouldn't bother doing a TAFE electronics course. If you do a Uni
course you can do design work on integrated circuits and work for big
communications companies. You could do research and development work
on mobile phones, radio and computer equipment, really interesting
work. Did you know that many mobile phones, computer modems and
military equipment is designed in Australia? You won't be able to get
into that if you do a TAFE (trade) course.


Sig:
To be or not to be is true - G. Boole

 

[David L. Jones]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:32:11 +0930, Rotes Sapiens
<rs@redplanet.mars.org.cy> wrote:

On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 13:58:35 GMT, "Andrew Howard"
andtfoot@hotpop.com> wrote:

Those are probably good ideas if you want to go the apprentice path
immediately, but could I suggest you at least look at the higher level
courses - what do they call the damn thing now, an Associate Diploma?? I'm
not sure which NSW institutions offer it, hopefully someone can enlighten
us. You could do these part-time while working if it better suited you.

Is this Associate Diploma a TAFE course, or is it run by something else?

Unless you want to end up wiring up buildings or fixing radios and TVs
I wouldn't bother doing a TAFE electronics course. If you do a Uni
course you can do design work on integrated circuits and work for big
communications companies. You could do research and development work
on mobile phones, radio and computer equipment, really interesting
work. Did you know that many mobile phones, computer modems and
military equipment is designed in Australia? You won't be able to get
into that if you do a TAFE (trade) course.

That is not so.
TAFE courses are not all "trade" courses, they have both trade level
and engineering level courses. The Diploma level courses are
para-professional enginnering courses, which can get you associate
membership of the institute of engineers, along with advanced entry
into many post grad courses. Many Diploma level grads go into design
and professional engineering roles.
I'd rather hire a good talented Diploma grad over an ordinary uni grad
any day.

Regards
Dave
---------------------------
(remove the "_" from my email address to reply)