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There just isn't enough and hasn't been enough time for even inventorsLiquid fuel costs are increasing 30% a year and that rate is
increasing. ?Many solutions will take years to implement so the
situation makes any WWII effort look like a picnic. ?Several decimal
place accuracy may be necessary for the final design work but all that
is necessary -- what am I saying? -- all that is _desirable_ for the
initial conception is basic logic.
The patent office doesn't require or even recommend dimensioning
unless it's critical for the operation of the invention. ?Only a silly
goose would whine about back of envelope calculations when a new idea
is being introduced.
There is no question the lite posts have entertainment value but if
your comment doesn't amount to at least tens of billions of dollars a
year in energy costs, stay off my threads on alternatives to oil or
you will be ridiculed off them.
---
I think the ridicule is more likely to be heaped on you, considering
your hare-brained "idea" of circular plowing.
You know of some theory where plants won't grow in concentric or
spiral furrows?
---
You know of anyone who makes concentric or spiral combines/harvesters?
What is a "concentric or spiral combine/harvester?" �Did you mean a
harvester that has a turning radius? �If so the answer is "yes." � All
self powered farm machinery can turn.
Are you acting dumb or are you really this stupid in real life?
But all this dodges the issue:
Why would someone trying to save $30 biillion a year in diesel want
_any_ kind of conventional [diesel powered] combine out in the fields?
The only reason for the concentric or spiral furrows was to do
everything from a beefed up electrically powered "super pivot" that
required no diesel.
Can you think of any reason why any field operation that could not be
accomplished as well or better from a rotating structure?
Face it: �You suggested something ridiculous, that furrows must be
straight. �You are in the hole and now you are digging yerself in
deeper and deeper.
---
Furrows are straight, for the most part, in large agricultural
operations because that's the most efficient way to plant and harvest
food. �If it were cheaper to do it in a circular fashion then someone
in the world would be doing it, but they're not, are they?
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
It only works if you have something to say.�Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I guarantee he
will be ridiculed.
Wow, that's really effective.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used onI don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
� �That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
---?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with
you that furrows cannot be circular or spiral.
---?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I guarantee he
will be ridiculed.
Wow, that's really effective.
It only works if you have something to say.
It won't work work for anyone.
---I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
? ?That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used on
contour plowing terrain.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used onI don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
? ?That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used on
contour plowing terrain.
---
Um...
They're used for irrigation, not for contour farming.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
� �That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used on
contour plowing terrain.
It won't work work for anyone.
Then what was the outburst about a rotating structure plowing a field?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with
you that furrows cannot be circular or spiral.
---
The question has never been whether or not they _can_ be,
Already electricity from the grid provides the same mechanical workit's been
that straight furrows are more economical to plant and harvest.
?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with
you that furrows cannot be circular or spiral.
---
The question has never been whether or not they _can_ be,
Then what was the outburst about a rotating structure plowing a field
all about?
it's been
that straight furrows are more economical to plant and harvest.
Already electricity from the grid provides the same mechanical work
for one third the energy cost as diesel and within four years will be
a order of magnitude less, a $100 billion a year savings.
So how are straight furrows cheaper than circular or spiral?
Capital costs?
An electric motor drive train is cheaper, more reliable, requires less
maintence, has greater low rpm torque and specific power than a diesel
engine.
Better land usage? After all a circle clips off the corners of a
square "wasting" 22% of the land.
Out west fields are being fallowed anyway because of the drought so
why not fallow what doesn't fall inside of the circle? A pivot
reduces irrigation water consumption so they are moving to pivots
anyway.
In the future, as land and other resources become more scarce
agriculture will become more controlled and automated.
The guy driving around a field in a diesel tractor makes very little
economic sense anymore and this will become more and more true as
liquid fuel costs continue to spiral.
?Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with
you that furrows cannot be circular or spiral.
Pivots in general don't move.
The impliments can be detached and moved as necessary.
yes, where they follow the contour to prevent soil damage.�That is why crops are laid
out in fairly straight lines,
"Fairly" straight?
? ? ?
They use lasers. Farmers are _very_ particular.
They'll screw around
so long at the end of the field getting everything just right --
plenty of time to recharge a cheap lead acid battery -- that it's easy
to tell they are just begging to be automated.
When they switch to concentric circles they'll want the roundness will
be +/- 0.00001%.
because there is more than plowing
involved.
That's exactly what gave me the idea. Take hay. First they waste
gallons of diesel to plant the hay.\
Then they waste gallons of diesel
to mow the hay. Then they waste gallons of diesel to rake the hay.
Then they waste gallons of diesel to bail the hay. Then they waste
gallons of diesel to stack the hay. Then they waste gallons of diesel
to line up the stacks by the road. Then they waste gallons of diesel
to load the hay onto a flatbed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
� �That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used on
contour plowing terrain.
  No, you're not. Â
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you to try to dig your way
out of that one.
That is your ignorant idea. Â
My idea was pivots which are necessarily used on flat terrain.
_You_ are the one who tried to change the issue to agriculture on more
rugged terrain.
? ? ??Here, there's
no guarantee.
The guarantee is simple:
If some idiot suggests that furrows cannot be in a circle or spiral or
that pivots can be used where contour plowing is necessary, I
guarantee he will be ridiculed.
I don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. ?Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
---
I think you probably don't see the stupidity in your acquaintances
because "Birds of a feather flock together."
You go out on the street and try to find someone who will agree with
you that furrows cannot be circular or spiral.
---
The question has never been whether or not they _can_ be,
Then what was the outburst about a rotating structure plowing a field
all about?
Pivots in general don't move.it's been
that straight furrows are more economical to plant and harvest.
Already electricity from the grid provides the same mechanical work
for one third the energy cost as diesel and within four years will be
a order of magnitude less, a $100 billion a year savings.
So how are straight furrows cheaper than circular or spiral?
Capital costs?
An electric motor drive train is cheaper, more reliable, requires less
maintence, has greater low rpm torque and specific power than a diesel
engine.
Better land usage? After all a circle clips off the corners of a
square "wasting" 22% of the land.
Out west fields are being fallowed anyway because of the drought so
why not fallow what doesn't fall inside of the circle? �A pivot
reduces irrigation water consumption so they are moving to pivots
anyway.
In the future, as land and other resources become more scarce
agriculture will become more controlled and automated.
The guy driving around a field in a diesel tractor makes very little
economic sense anymore and this will become more and more true as
liquid fuel costs continue to spiral.
That tractor can move from filed to field, as needed. �You half assed
concept can't, without damaging the crops. ďż˝
And?That is why crops are laid
out in fairly straight lines, because there is more than plowing
involved. ďż˝
"Fairly" straight?�That is why crops are laid
out in fairly straight lines,
That's exactly what gave me the idea. Take hay. First they wastebecause there is more than plowing
involved.
I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you to try to dig your wayI don't run into anyone that stupid on the street. �Maybe I scare away
most the idiots in real life.
� �That's because you are the village idiot, for at least six states.
We're still waiting for you to tell us about those pivots used on
contour plowing terrain.
  No, you're not. Â
My idea was pivots which are necessarily used on flat terrain.That is your ignorant idea. Â
When I was in high-school I bucked wheat for part of a summer, and as an?That is why crops are laid
out in fairly straight lines,
"Fairly" straight?
? ? ?
They use lasers. Farmers are _very_ particular. They'll screw around
so long at the end of the field getting everything just right --
plenty of time to recharge a cheap lead acid battery -- that it's easy
to tell they are just begging to be automated.
When they switch to concentric circles they'll want the roundness will
be +/- 0.00001%.
because there is more than plowing
involved.
That's exactly what gave me the idea. Take hay. First they waste
gallons of diesel to plant the hay. Then they waste gallons of diesel
to mow the hay. Then they waste gallons of diesel to rake the hay.
Then they waste gallons of diesel to bail the hay. Then they waste
gallons of diesel to stack the hay. Then they waste gallons of diesel
to line up the stacks by the road. Then they waste gallons of diesel
to load the hay onto a flatbed.
Bret Cahill
"But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
-- Paine