NiCad SpotWelder?

M

MikeM

Guest
Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM
 
"MikeM" <joe@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c34h8d$f3e$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM
Click to expand...
I just solder directly to the battery, I tin it first, then solder either a tab (ie:
keystone makes all sorts of PCB mount tabs), but this all depends on how many you need to
make.

I'm pretty sure those tabs are welded on before they assemble the entire battery, at least
in one process I've observed. If you have hundreds, then yes, a spot welder would be
easy, but for several, soldering isn't a bad solution. I've been careful not to destroy
the batteries I've done this to, and it's worked out fine.


--
Myron Samila
Toronto, ON Canada
Samila Racing
http://204.101.251.229/myronx19
 
Myron Samila wrote:

I just solder directly to the battery, I tin it first, then solder
either a tab (ie:
keystone makes all sorts of PCB mount tabs), but this all depends on how many you need to
make.

I'm pretty sure those tabs are welded on before they assemble the entire battery, at least
in one process I've observed. If you have hundreds, then yes, a spot welder would be
easy, but for several, soldering isn't a bad solution. I've been careful not to destroy
the batteries I've done this to, and it's worked out fine.
Click to expand...

The key is to sand the contacts lightly with 400 grit sandpaper and use
a very hot iron with minimum solder so you can tin the battery button
quickly. Then tin the tabs separately and while still hot press them in
place.

So far I haven't messed up any of the 60 odd el cheapo NiMH AAAs I
picked up on eBay. If I were using $2.50 each panasonics I would
probably think twice about it.
--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
 
"MikeM" <joe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c34h8d$f3e$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM
Click to expand...
Unless you get really stuck don't try soldering to them.
Soldering can be OK but you have no way of knowing of you have damaged the
cell or its venting mechanism.

Any dental technician will have a little spot welder that will do the job
admirably.
Most communities of any size will have one, or more, such companies serving
the local dentists.
 
Dentists?? With a Spot Welder??

Holy crap!! I hope I don't need one of those :)

Yours, Mark.

R.Lewis wrote:

"MikeM" <joe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c34h8d$f3e$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...

Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM



Unless you get really stuck don't try soldering to them.
Soldering can be OK but you have no way of knowing of you have damaged the
cell or its venting mechanism.

Any dental technician will have a little spot welder that will do the job
admirably.
Most communities of any size will have one, or more, such companies serving
the local dentists.
Click to expand...
 
"MikeM" <joe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c34h8d$f3e$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?
Click to expand...
The manufacturers don't recommend solder but lots of people do all the time.
It's even possible to solder cells end-to-end with no wire or tabs between
each cell, just solder.

The trick is to really clean the cells very carefully with fine wet and dry
paper used dry. Then apply plumbers flux to the end of the cell and "tin"
the cells with a clean hot iron. The iron must have a large bit with plenty
of thermal mass and at least 50W (and 75W is better). Your average fine tip
12W iron for general electronics won't do. The instant the solder flows out
you hit the cell with a wet sponge so the insides of the cell never get
really hot. The vents are usually around the edge of the +ve so unless you
use huge amounts of solder it's hard to block them.

This site explains how to do end-end soldering...

http://www.logoheli.com/end2end.htm

Note:

a) The T shape (or "Hammer head") soldering iron with two surfaces.
b) The L shape bar in the photo marked "Acculine". This is fixed in a vice
and is used to align the cells by sliding them along it.

It's even possible to seperate cells that have been end to end soldered and
re-solder them into a different shape pack.

Colin
 
MikeM wrote:
Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM

http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/welder.html
Click to expand...
I've since moved up from the microwave transformer
to a Unitek CD spot welder. Much more repeatable.
mike
--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
MikeM <joe@yahoo.com> wrote:

Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?
Click to expand...
sorry, no. But another question:

Anybody who knows the material of these tabs?

Doesn't seem to be copper...

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
 
A big electrolitic cap and some experimenting should do it.
 
My local ni-cad rep welded all of mine for 10 cents per tab
(4 welds) and 10 cents for each tab used. Check the yellow
pages in your town.

"CBarn24050" <cbarn24050@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040315182413.09068.00001409@mb-m14.aol.com...
> A big electrolitic cap and some experimenting should do it.
 
I just solder directly to the battery, I tin it first, then solder either
a tab (ie:
keystone makes all sorts of PCB mount tabs), but this all depends on how
many you need to
make.
Click to expand...
http://www.dvanhorn.org/NIMH/Index.php

This is a very bad idea, though I know people do it all the time.
The cell makers cringe when they hear stuff like this.
 
On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:12:48 -0700, MikeM <joe@yahoo.com> wrote:

Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM
Click to expand...

All you have to do is solder.
I scuff up the solder point a bit to get a better tack.
Flux it well and solder with a high watt soldergun.(Weller etc...)
Then depending on what the cluster config is like I either heat shrink
a sleeve on the batteries or pack it in a custom case.
 
Oliver Betz wrote:
MikeM <joe@yahoo.com> wrote:


Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?


sorry, no. But another question:

Anybody who knows the material of these tabs?

Doesn't seem to be copper...

Oliver
Click to expand...
It's nickel.
It's 0.005" thick.
Any thicker and it won't weld. Thinner and
it blows thru. Thickness is CRITICAL.
And the 0.005" stuff is very hard to find.
I managed to find some surplus tab material from
a defunct battery builder.

You can improve the weld by punching a small slot
in the tab between the weld points to increase the
tab resistance in that area and make more weld current go
thru the top of the battery.

0.005" brass welds very nicely, way easier than nickel 'cause
of the higher resistance. You can get 0.005" sheet at
any hobby shop.
The resistance is higher.
There are corrosion concerns, but if you can't get
nickel...

mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
Toshiba & Compaq LiIon Batteries, Test Equipment
Honda CB-125S $800 in PDX
Yaesu FTV901R Transverter, 30pS pulser
Tektronix Concept Books, spot welding head...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
 
It's nickel.
It's 0.005" thick.
Any thicker and it won't weld. Thinner and
it blows thru. Thickness is CRITICAL.
Click to expand...
Must depend on the welder. My local batteries plus has multiple thicknesses,
and widths for different current ratings.

I use them to make up packs for me, from sample cells.
 
MikeM wrote:

Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM
Click to expand...
Google for microwave oven welder and you will come up with a homemade
spot welder that can weld even thicker metal than NiCad battery tabs.
 
Myron Samila wrote:

"MikeM" <joe@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c34h8d$f3e$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...

Anybody build a welder capable of spot welding
tabs on batteries?

I came into a bunch of tabless NiCads, and would like to
attach tabs.

MikeM

I just solder directly to the battery, I tin it first, then solder either a tab (ie:
keystone makes all sorts of PCB mount tabs), but this all depends on how many you need to
make.

I'm pretty sure those tabs are welded on before they assemble the entire battery, at least
in one process I've observed. If you have hundreds, then yes, a spot welder would be
easy, but for several, soldering isn't a bad solution. I've been careful not to destroy
the batteries I've done this to, and it's worked out fine.
Click to expand...
I soldered a wire onto a battery once. It caused the internal battery
contact to become intermittent. I'll _never_ do that again.
 
"Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:c375r4$6blpb$3@hades.csu.net...

I soldered a wire onto a battery once. It caused the internal battery
contact to become intermittent. I'll _never_ do that again.
Click to expand...
I've soldered more than 100 cells and never had a problem.
 
In sci.electronics.design CWatters <colin.watters@pandorabox.be> wrote:
"Watson A.Name "Watt Sun - the Dark Remover"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote
in message news:c375r4$6blpb$3@hades.csu.net...

I soldered a wire onto a battery once. It caused the internal battery
contact to become intermittent. I'll _never_ do that again.

I've soldered more than 100 cells and never had a problem.

I've soldered more than 100 cells, and never had a problem too.
Click to expand...
If you'r doing it right, the soldering iron should be touching the battery
for under half a second, but still result in a fully wetted joint.

Done the same for a few Li-ion cells too.
 
"Dave VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote:

It's nickel.
It's 0.005" thick.
Any thicker and it won't weld. Thinner and
it blows thru. Thickness is CRITICAL.

Must depend on the welder. My local batteries plus has multiple thicknesses,
and widths for different current ratings.
Click to expand...
ack, some days ago I looked at my 8*KAN1050 pack, the packs were
approx. 0.25mm thick.

Are the tabs you know also made from Ni?

Oliver
--
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
 
"Oliver Betz" <OBetz@despammed.com> wrote in message
news:40585d34.44249276@z1.oliverbetz.de...
"Dave VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net> wrote:

It's nickel.
It's 0.005" thick.
Any thicker and it won't weld. Thinner and
it blows thru. Thickness is CRITICAL.

Must depend on the welder. My local batteries plus has multiple
thicknesses,
and widths for different current ratings.

ack, some days ago I looked at my 8*KAN1050 pack, the packs were
approx. 0.25mm thick.

Are the tabs you know also made from Ni?
Click to expand...
The ones that my shop uses are Nickle, at least that's what they tell me. :)
 
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