Newsgroup death spiral

[Mark Zacharias]

I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of sci.electronics.repair,
rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just about everyone has left the
room for good, except the spammers of course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote in message
news:002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of sci.electronics.repair,
rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just about everyone has left the
room for good, except the spammers of course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

Don't leave this one Mark. Your input and experience on hifi service is much
valued, not only by the amateurs I suspect, but the rest of us who are also
involved professionally at the sharp end of this sort of service work.
Overall, I still think that this group is one of the better ones, with some
very good people experienced in a wide range of electronic, electrical, and
electro-mechanical disciplines, still contributing.

People always come and go, and sometimes disappear for months on end before
coming back. Activity always drops a bit in the summer months, as people
have grass to cut, and barbecues to have ...

Arfa

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:

I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Samuel M. Goldwasser]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> writes:

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote in message
news:002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of sci.electronics.repair,
rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just about everyone has left the
room for good, except the spammers of course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

Don't leave this one Mark. Your input and experience on hifi service is much
valued, not only by the amateurs I suspect, but the rest of us who are also
involved professionally at the sharp end of this sort of service work.
Overall, I still think that this group is one of the better ones, with some
very good people experienced in a wide range of electronic, electrical, and
electro-mechanical disciplines, still contributing.

People always come and go, and sometimes disappear for months on end before
coming back. Activity always drops a bit in the summer months, as people
have grass to cut, and barbecues to have ...

Agreed.

Forums with fancy fluffy graphics come and go and only serve to fragment
the cummunity. I don't think there is no single one that has the same
extebt if experience as the S.E. newsgroups. There are only so many hours
int he day and to start reading and posting to multiple forums is simply
a poor use of limited resources.

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

 

[petrus bitbyter]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:508921fb07dave@davenoise.co.uk...

In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

--
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I blocked the Googles already though I sometimes have to use the Google
groups to find the postings my providers newsservers have missed. Of course
I complained about that but the newsservers are "only experimental services"
without any guarantee. I dislike to pay extra for newsserver only services
and so far I did not find a good free newsserver. Anyone else did?

petrus bitbyter

 

[Richard Crowley]

petrus bitbyter wrote:

I blocked the Googles already though I sometimes have to use the
Google groups to find the postings my providers newsservers have
missed. Of course I complained about that but the newsservers are
"only experimental services" without any guarantee. I dislike to pay
extra for newsserver only services and so far I did not find a good
free newsserver. Anyone else did?

Many people have commented positively about Mozarella which
has changed its name to: http://www.eternal-september.org/
It appears to be a reliable free service.

Nearly free is individual.net which is operated by the Free University
in Berlin. It costs 10 Euro per year and I find it to be completely
reliable. (No binaries, only text-based newsgroups)

NNTP (news) is not a handshaking, guaranteed service like
SMTP (email), so nobody can guarantee that every message
gets posted on every server. It is a peer-to-peer, store-n-
forward, best-effort kind of thing.

Complaining about the death of Usenet is an annual summer sport.

 

[Ray L. Volts]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Well, I guess I'm blocked, too, so Dave probably won't see this, but
googlegroups can be dropped w/o dropping the whole of gmail. NewsProxy
and nfilter work quite well for doing exactly this. I've not been
seeing spam from gmail sources.

Gmail offers a nice set of features and perfect functionality with
T-bird -- compared to yahoo (blasted negative vibes AGAIN!), live.com,
etc. I don't think it's silly at all to use something that works so
well for free and lets the user keep his/her ISP email address private.

That being said, are a good alternative. Would it really be that
difficult for NG users to find one another after the move to forums? I
think not, so the question is why NOT leave the NG's to the spammers?


Advantages I see with forums are:

1) user registration prior to posting! stop spammers before they
strike; if one bothers registering, moderator/admin deletes them
2) moderators (many can be assigned to handle heavy traffic)
3) easier searches (depends on app)
3) thread retention not dependent upon NG server
4) image hosting (as if there aren't enough photo album servers out there)
5) bios (for those so inclined)
6) private messaging system -- keeps email addresses private

I can think of only two advantages normal NG's have over today's forums:

1) reliability/availability -- if a forum site goes down, it's down for
everyone
2) access/availability in some parts of the world --though I'm not sure
that's as much of an issue as it once was.

I said "normal" above to distinguish text NG's from binaries, where
copyrighted and obscene material can be easily exchanged; a purpose
which can be defeated in a forum.

 

[Ray L. Volts]

Ray L. Volts wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...
Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?
(those of you still around here that is...)

Well, I guess I'm blocked, too, so Dave probably won't see this, but
googlegroups can be dropped w/o dropping the whole of gmail. NewsProxy
and nfilter work quite well for doing exactly this. I've not been
seeing spam from gmail sources.

Unless, of course googlegroups necessarily equals gmail, which would
uhm.. explain it rather well. <sigh>

Gmail offers a nice set of features and perfect functionality with
T-bird -- compared to yahoo (blasted negative vibes AGAIN!), live.com,
etc. I don't think it's silly at all to use something that works so
well for free and lets the user keep his/her ISP email address private.

That being said, are a good alternative. Would it really be that
difficult for NG users to find one another after the move to forums? I
think not, so the question is why NOT leave the NG's to the spammers?


Advantages I see with forums are:

1) user registration prior to posting! stop spammers before they
strike; if one bothers registering, moderator/admin deletes them
2) moderators (many can be assigned to handle heavy traffic)
3) easier searches (depends on app)
3) thread retention not dependent upon NG server
4) image hosting (as if there aren't enough photo album servers out there)
5) bios (for those so inclined)
6) private messaging system -- keeps email addresses private

I can think of only two advantages normal NG's have over today's forums:

1) reliability/availability -- if a forum site goes down, it's down for
everyone
2) access/availability in some parts of the world --though I'm not sure
that's as much of an issue as it once was.

I said "normal" above to distinguish text NG's from binaries, where
copyrighted and obscene material can be easily exchanged; a purpose
which can be defeated in a forum.

 

[Rich Webb]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:27:53 GMT, "Ray L. Volts"
<raylvolts@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote:

Unless, of course googlegroups necessarily equals gmail, which would
uhm.. explain it rather well. <sigh

Probably not. I'd guess that most filters are based around finding
googlegroups in the Message-ID field rather than just gmail.com in the
From line.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[GregS]

In article <k8fgm.1576$nh2.1050@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)


Well, I guess I'm blocked, too, so Dave probably won't see this, but
googlegroups can be dropped w/o dropping the whole of gmail. NewsProxy
and nfilter work quite well for doing exactly this. I've not been
seeing spam from gmail sources.

Gmail offers a nice set of features and perfect functionality with
T-bird -- compared to yahoo (blasted negative vibes AGAIN!), live.com,
etc. I don't think it's silly at all to use something that works so
well for free and lets the user keep his/her ISP email address private.

That being said, are a good alternative. Would it really be that
difficult for NG users to find one another after the move to forums? I
think not, so the question is why NOT leave the NG's to the spammers?


Advantages I see with forums are:

1) user registration prior to posting! stop spammers before they
strike; if one bothers registering, moderator/admin deletes them
2) moderators (many can be assigned to handle heavy traffic)
3) easier searches (depends on app)
3) thread retention not dependent upon NG server
4) image hosting (as if there aren't enough photo album servers out there)
5) bios (for those so inclined)
6) private messaging system -- keeps email addresses private

I can think of only two advantages normal NG's have over today's forums:

1) reliability/availability -- if a forum site goes down, it's down for
everyone
2) access/availability in some parts of the world --though I'm not sure
that's as much of an issue as it once was.

I said "normal" above to distinguish text NG's from binaries, where
copyrighted and obscene material can be easily exchanged; a purpose
which can be defeated in a forum.

If a forum goes down, down goes the info. Newsgroups are archieved
by Google and that info can still be obtained. Google calls them Google Groups.
Google groups is a generic name of the google function, but google
makes it appear Usenet is theirs.

I have been in a number of forums. Too hard to keep track of passwords.

I feel priviledges to have recently been booted out of a forum.
One moderator seemed to be of an asshole type. I could care less.

greg

 

[Ron]

Rich Webb wrote:

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:27:53 GMT, "Ray L. Volts"
raylvolts@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote:


Unless, of course googlegroups necessarily equals gmail, which would
uhm.. explain it rather well. <sigh

Probably not. I'd guess that most filters are based around finding
googlegroups in the Message-ID field rather than just gmail.com in the
From line.

Just blocking anything from gmail sorts out an awful lot of spam. It`s

worth losing a few (generally clueless) Google posters to be rid of all
the rubbish.

Ron

 

[Rich Webb]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:57:13 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
wrote:

If a forum goes down, down goes the info. Newsgroups are archieved
by Google and that info can still be obtained. Google calls them Google Groups.
Google groups is a generic name of the google function, but google
makes it appear Usenet is theirs.

I have been in a number of forums. Too hard to keep track of passwords.

I feel priviledges to have recently been booted out of a forum.
One moderator seemed to be of an asshole type. I could care less.

Also a good point.

A few years ago, on a motherboard manufacturer's public forum, there
were discussions about one particular model that was experiencing odd
behavior with the latest release of Athlon "Thunderbird" CPUs. Some good
detective work by one member traced the cause to one voltage sense
resistor under the CPU. The fix was just to swap the resistor for
another value. Bit of a PITA (0402 form factor) but do-able.

It was very repeatable. Before: memory test errors, CRC errors moving
large files, etc. After: 100% clean on all tests. Did the fix and I was
a happy camper. "Mr Athlon" (the good detective) was a hero.

Except, not to the manufacturer. They apparently didn't like having the
problem pointed out and booted Mr Athlon off the forum and deleted the
affected threads.

For all the spammage and flames (and sock-puppets) there are some real
advantages to usenet's anarchy.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Ray L. Volts" <raylvolts@REMOVECAPSgmail.com> wrote in message
news:k8fgm.1576$nh2.1050@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com>,
Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Just block g-mail to get rid of most of it. Those private individuals
silly enough to use it will soon get the message.
Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)


Well, I guess I'm blocked, too, so Dave probably won't see this, but
googlegroups can be dropped w/o dropping the whole of gmail. NewsProxy
and nfilter work quite well for doing exactly this. I've not been seeing
spam from gmail sources.

Gmail offers a nice set of features and perfect functionality with
T-bird -- compared to yahoo (blasted negative vibes AGAIN!), live.com,
etc. I don't think it's silly at all to use something that works so well
for free and lets the user keep his/her ISP email address private.

That being said, are a good alternative. Would it really be that
difficult for NG users to find one another after the move to forums? I
think not, so the question is why NOT leave the NG's to the spammers?


Advantages I see with forums are:

1) user registration prior to posting! stop spammers before they strike;
if one bothers registering, moderator/admin deletes them
2) moderators (many can be assigned to handle heavy traffic)
3) easier searches (depends on app)
3) thread retention not dependent upon NG server
4) image hosting (as if there aren't enough photo album servers out there)
5) bios (for those so inclined)
6) private messaging system -- keeps email addresses private

I can think of only two advantages normal NG's have over today's forums:

1) reliability/availability -- if a forum site goes down, it's down for
everyone
2) access/availability in some parts of the world --though I'm not sure
that's as much of an issue as it once was.

I said "normal" above to distinguish text NG's from binaries, where
copyrighted and obscene material can be easily exchanged; a purpose which
can be defeated in a forum.

The main advantage is that usenet is for grownups, who don't need to be
moderated by some failed wannabe police officer. 'Problems' are usually
sorted by short-lived flame wars, that can be a lot of fun (unless you're on
the receiving end) which is the whole point. If enough 'sensible' opinions
are levelled against you, and you are made to look a dope, most trouble
makers will slope back off quietly on their own, without any need for
banning.

The way it is, is the way it is, and has been, pretty much unchanged, for a
very long time. I for one find forums very tedious, and often very difficult
to navigate. Finding your way back to a thread a few days later, can be a
very frustrating process. Email addresses on usenet are not really an issue.
You just keep a separate one for usenet activity, and change it if becomes a
problem. Although I have never bothered, I think you can even have a
completely invalid return address, although I'm sure that there are very
clever usenet people who could trace you back to a valid address anyway.

As for bios, I'm not the slightest bit interested in seeing a picture of
someone, or knowing anything of their personal details (as they would have
you know them). I'm not looking to date anyone, so such details are
irrelevant to me in the normal course of things. If anyone is desperately
interested to know what I do, or how long I've been doing it, or what gender
I am, or where I live near, they ask, and I tell.

If I want to talk to someone privately, I use "Reply" instead of "Reply
Group", and if there's not a valid address to do that, I just post in the
thread and ask them to contact me direct off-group. Personally, for all of
this sort of thing, give me usenet newsgroups over web-based forums, any day
of the week.

Arfa

 

[Ken Layton]

I use the free "Trollkiller" program to eliminate the spam:

http://www.source9.com/trollkiller.html

 

[Franc Zabkar]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 05:01:46 -0500, "Mark Zacharias"
<mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of sci.electronics.repair,
rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just about everyone has left the
room for good, except the spammers of course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

One advantage of private forums is that many have a file area where
you can upload/download schematics, manuals, photos, etc.

That said, I haven't found one which isn't annoying to use. One
popular one appears to be http://www.fixya.com/. However, most of the
questions are from end users and are along the lines of "where is the
fuse?" or "my power button doesn't work, what do I do now?". The techs
that respond to these questions are rewarded monetarily, so there is a
disincentive to release income-generating information to the public.
For example, a tech may tell you to that error code Enn points to a
faulty water pump in a washer, but he will not upload the service
manual that enables you to find this out for yourself.

I use http://www.eserviceinfo.com/ for uploading service manuals, but
I haven't participated in any of the forums.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

 

[David Nebenzahl]

On 8/11/2009 8:28 AM Rich Webb spake thus:

For all the spammage and flames (and sock-puppets) there are some real
advantages to usenet's anarchy.

Of the three things you listed, only the first is a significant problem,
at least in the two newsgroups this is posted to.

Myself, I just ignore spam. Easy, requires no configuration or programming.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

 

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <4a81dd7c$0$7465$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

Myself, I just ignore spam. Easy, requires no configuration or
programming.

Used to annoy more when you had to pay to download it.

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

 

[Nelson]

On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:01:46 -0400, Mark Zacharias wrote
(in article <002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com&gt:

I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of sci.electronics.repair,
rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just about everyone has left the
room for good, except the spammers of course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

This has indeed happened to many of the groups I once followed but
sci.electronics.repair still seems healthy to me. spam, like the poor,
will always be with us but once you get over the indignity, it's easy
enough to just ignore. The type of people who read
sci.electronics.repair are exactly the type of people who have no
trouble figuring out how to use usenet. Everyone else is accustomed to
browsers and yahoo-type groups which I find incredibly tedious to read
and navigate.

One of the big reasons usenet usage and readership is down is that most
of the big ISP's have stopped carrying it. Google Groups is a
lifesaver for those who still want to follow it but don't want to pay a
subscription to an NSP. Furthermore, in contrast to what others have
posted in this thread, I don't find that the majority of spam
originates from google groups. It just isn't an efficient way to spam.
If I wanted to spam the newsgroups, I'd use a usenet spambot. It's
much more efficient than trying to use Google. Also, don't assume that
a gmail email address means that the post originates from google
groups.

I have gotten a lot of good help from this group and would really hate
to see it die.

--
Nelson

 

[Mark Zacharias]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6Scgm.103896$Th1.65199@newsfe02.ams2...

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote in message
news:002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

Don't leave this one Mark. Your input and experience on hifi service is
much valued, not only by the amateurs I suspect, but the rest of us who
are also involved professionally at the sharp end of this sort of service
work. Overall, I still think that this group is one of the better ones,
with some very good people experienced in a wide range of electronic,
electrical, and electro-mechanical disciplines, still contributing.

People always come and go, and sometimes disappear for months on end
before coming back. Activity always drops a bit in the summer months, as
people have grass to cut, and barbecues to have ...

Arfa

Not so much leaving as wanting to hear more from the techs. Haven't had much
luck filtering the spam using Windoze Mail, which along with OE previously,
has all my old postings and others in the various message folders.

I can visually scan the list of messages in a given newsgroup and filter
accordingly, the trouble is there just aren't many relevant posts any more.
Often I'll see fifty spam posts along with one or two legitimate posts which
mostly don't even relate to my areas of interest. So many of our best seem
to have left the room for good.

Once upon a time I might make several posts in any given day which might
have some relevance or actually help someone. I was typing away so much my
wife almost thought I was fooling around! Nowadays it's down to about one or
two posts per week tops.


Mark Z.

 

[Mark Zacharias]

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6Scgm.103896$Th1.65199@newsfe02.ams2...

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote in message
news:002d484d$0$699$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
I used to spend a lot of time perusing the likes of
sci.electronics.repair, rec.audio.tech, etc but anymore it seems just
about everyone has left the room for good, except the spammers of
course...

Any good electronics repair forums you guys like?

(those of you still around here that is...)

Mark Z.

Don't leave this one Mark. Your input and experience on hifi service is
much valued, not only by the amateurs I suspect, but the rest of us who
are also involved professionally at the sharp end of this sort of service
work. Overall, I still think that this group is one of the better ones,
with some very good people experienced in a wide range of electronic,
electrical, and electro-mechanical disciplines, still contributing.

People always come and go, and sometimes disappear for months on end
before coming back. Activity always drops a bit in the summer months, as
people have grass to cut, and barbecues to have ...

Arfa

Not so much leaving as wanting to hear more from the techs. Haven't had much
luck filtering the spam using Windoze Mail, which along with OE previously,
has all my old postings and others in the various message folders.

I can visually scan the list of messages in a given newsgroup and filter
accordingly, the trouble is there just aren't many relevant posts any more.
Often I'll see fifty spam posts along with one or two legitimate posts which
mostly don't even relate to my areas of interest. So many of our best seem
to have left the room for good.

Once upon a time I might make several posts in any given day which might
have some relevance or actually help someone. I was typing away so much my
wife almost thought I was fooling around! Nowadays it's down to about one or
two posts per week tops.


Mark Z.