Newbie: tips on how to start?

[John Fields]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:12:38 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com>
wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:47:45 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com
wrote:

I'm looking into picking up electronics as a hobby. What advice can you
spare?

---
stay away from sci.electronics.design.

Why is that?

---
Lots of grouchy old men flaming each other; hardly any electronics.

This is a pretty good group for newbies, though.

 

[Nobody]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:30:15 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

The two aren't mutually exclusive; in fact, the latter is a subset of the
former.

The word "forum" has been around far longer than the internet, or
computers, or even electricity. It refers to any "place" which exists for
discussion.

On the internet, that includes newsgroups, mailing lists, and IRC
channels, as well as Web-based fora (or "forums" for people who don't
believe in etymology).

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:48:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:28:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-14, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

How often do people drop dead from actual electrocutions in places
that use 240, just doing plain tasks like you might at home or
outside?

People do die from electrocution on 240 volt AC mains. More often than
not the reflex action causes you to pull away. I agree with your
comment that "the danger is almost always from what you end up hitting
or falling off (like a ladder) /into than from the shock itself."
DC is far more likely to kill you, simply because the muscle contracts
and makes it impossible to let go.

AC can do that too, My dad had trouble putting a skilsaw down after
cutting the lead. luckily he was able to out-distance the extension
lead. Next time he used it with an isolating transformer.


It would be simpler to make sure you can't cut the cord with the saw.

Batteries? ;-)


I've never seen a battery operated saw I would buy.

I have a 9.6V 3-3/8" Makita circular saw that worked great on cedar siding. I
could even use it while on the ladder. I resided my house in VT with it. It
paid for itself in that one job but I haven't found much other use for it.

http://www.makitapowertoolsonline.com/Cordless-Circular-Saws/Makita-5090D-Cordless-Circular-Saw.html

A couple of years ago I bought an 18V 6-1/2" Dewalt circular saw. It's *very*
useful. I've used it to cut down several sheets of 3/4" ply.

http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-saws-circular-saws-dc390k.aspx

I have rarely ever been where it was difficult to get AC for a
regular saw, so by the time I needed one again, the batteries would be
bad.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-17, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-14, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

How often do people drop dead from actual electrocutions in places
that use 240, just doing plain tasks like you might at home or
outside?

People do die from electrocution on 240 volt AC mains. More often than
not the reflex action causes you to pull away. I agree with your
comment that "the danger is almost always from what you end up hitting
or falling off (like a ladder) /into than from the shock itself."
DC is far more likely to kill you, simply because the muscle contracts
and makes it impossible to let go.

AC can do that too, My dad had trouble putting a skilsaw down after
cutting the lead. luckily he was able to out-distance the extension
lead. Next time he used it with an isolating transformer.

It would be simpler to make sure you can't cut the cord with the saw.

This is a handheld critular saw. a cord short enough to be
intrinsically safe isn't long enough to be useful.

But, yeah, definately more care would have helped.

A short cord is easier to get in your way. You need the cord behind
you as you cut, so you can pull it behind the saw. I've seen a lot of
people run it the other direction, and cut it.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

John Fields wrote:

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:12:38 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com
wrote:

John Fields wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:47:45 +0100, Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com
wrote:

I'm looking into picking up electronics as a hobby. What advice can you
spare?

stay away from sci.electronics.design.

Why is that?

Lots of grouchy old men flaming each other; hardly any electronics.

This is a pretty good group for newbies, though.

Come on, John. It's what they're best at. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:51:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?


Usenet is hosted on multiple servers around the world. A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

Care to give a citation for that definition? A forum is simply a (place for)
public discussion.

Street corners have very poor bandwidth, or data retention.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-18, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?

A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

That requirement seems very arbitrary.

So is life.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:33:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:48:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Fri, 16 Jul 2010 20:28:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-14, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

How often do people drop dead from actual electrocutions in places
that use 240, just doing plain tasks like you might at home or
outside?

People do die from electrocution on 240 volt AC mains. More often than
not the reflex action causes you to pull away. I agree with your
comment that "the danger is almost always from what you end up hitting
or falling off (like a ladder) /into than from the shock itself."
DC is far more likely to kill you, simply because the muscle contracts
and makes it impossible to let go.

AC can do that too, My dad had trouble putting a skilsaw down after
cutting the lead. luckily he was able to out-distance the extension
lead. Next time he used it with an isolating transformer.


It would be simpler to make sure you can't cut the cord with the saw.

Batteries? ;-)


I've never seen a battery operated saw I would buy.

I have a 9.6V 3-3/8" Makita circular saw that worked great on cedar siding. I
could even use it while on the ladder. I resided my house in VT with it. It
paid for itself in that one job but I haven't found much other use for it.

http://www.makitapowertoolsonline.com/Cordless-Circular-Saws/Makita-5090D-Cordless-Circular-Saw.html

A couple of years ago I bought an 18V 6-1/2" Dewalt circular saw. It's *very*
useful. I've used it to cut down several sheets of 3/4" ply.

http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-saws-circular-saws-dc390k.aspx


I have rarely ever been where it was difficult to get AC for a
regular saw, so by the time I needed one again, the batteries would be
bad.

It's not usually difficult to get AC for my cordless drills, either. It's
very convenient that I don't have to, though. OTOH, cordless saws are more
marginal, but the later models are still useful. Like I said, I use mine to
cut down sheet goods, though I just bought a more precise (corded) saw for
this purpose.

Many times the getting an extension cord out and putting it away is more
hassle than the rest of the "project" (e.g. hanging pictures or curtain rods).
Cordless tools are great for these small "projects".

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:37:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:51:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?


Usenet is hosted on multiple servers around the world. A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

Care to give a citation for that definition? A forum is simply a (place for)
public discussion.


Street corners have very poor bandwidth, or data retention.

The Usenet has a lot of bandwidth, but no information to retain. ;-)

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:35:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-17, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-14, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

How often do people drop dead from actual electrocutions in places
that use 240, just doing plain tasks like you might at home or
outside?

People do die from electrocution on 240 volt AC mains. More often than
not the reflex action causes you to pull away. I agree with your
comment that "the danger is almost always from what you end up hitting
or falling off (like a ladder) /into than from the shock itself."
DC is far more likely to kill you, simply because the muscle contracts
and makes it impossible to let go.

AC can do that too, My dad had trouble putting a skilsaw down after
cutting the lead. luckily he was able to out-distance the extension
lead. Next time he used it with an isolating transformer.

It would be simpler to make sure you can't cut the cord with the saw.

This is a handheld critular saw. a cord short enough to be
intrinsically safe isn't long enough to be useful.

But, yeah, definately more care would have helped.


A short cord is easier to get in your way. You need the cord behind
you as you cut, so you can pull it behind the saw. I've seen a lot of
people run it the other direction, and cut it.

The only cord I've cut recently was on my router. I cut it as I was putting
the router down after a cut. I don't even think it was spinning when I sliced
the cord, though that didn't stop it from sparking. :-/

I thought the cord had a special molded strain relief so I ordered the exact
replacement. Turns out that the strain relief just slipped over an ordinary
line cord; a $35 lesson.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I have rarely ever been where it was difficult to get AC for a
regular saw, so by the time I needed one again, the batteries would be
bad.

It's not usually difficult to get AC for my cordless drills, either. It's
very convenient that I don't have to, though. OTOH, cordless saws are more
marginal, but the later models are still useful. Like I said, I use mine to
cut down sheet goods, though I just bought a more precise (corded) saw for
this purpose.

Many times the getting an extension cord out and putting it away is more
hassle than the rest of the "project" (e.g. hanging pictures or curtain rods).
Cordless tools are great for these small "projects".

I have 100' extension cords hanging on the walls of the shops, right
next to the doors. I leave them plugged in, and just lift off the
number of loops I need. They are about 5' per loop so it's easy to see
what I need. I generally use the cordless drills to work on computers,
and the regular drills for most other work. Like the 1/2" hammer drill
with a 1" masonry bit.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:35:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-17, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

Jasen Betts wrote:

On 2010-07-14, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

How often do people drop dead from actual electrocutions in places
that use 240, just doing plain tasks like you might at home or
outside?

People do die from electrocution on 240 volt AC mains. More often than
not the reflex action causes you to pull away. I agree with your
comment that "the danger is almost always from what you end up hitting
or falling off (like a ladder) /into than from the shock itself."
DC is far more likely to kill you, simply because the muscle contracts
and makes it impossible to let go.

AC can do that too, My dad had trouble putting a skilsaw down after
cutting the lead. luckily he was able to out-distance the extension
lead. Next time he used it with an isolating transformer.

It would be simpler to make sure you can't cut the cord with the saw.

This is a handheld critular saw. a cord short enough to be
intrinsically safe isn't long enough to be useful.

But, yeah, definately more care would have helped.


A short cord is easier to get in your way. You need the cord behind
you as you cut, so you can pull it behind the saw. I've seen a lot of
people run it the other direction, and cut it.

The only cord I've cut recently was on my router. I cut it as I was putting
the router down after a cut. I don't even think it was spinning when I sliced
the cord, though that didn't stop it from sparking. :-/

I thought the cord had a special molded strain relief so I ordered the exact
replacement. Turns out that the strain relief just slipped over an ordinary
line cord; a $35 lesson.

I have been able to remove some molded on strain reliefs by cutting
off the wire and pulling it out of the jacket, then rolling the strain
relief across the bench while pressing down. Generally, if you can
break a small area loose, a few drops of water or alcohol will seep intp
the cracks and allow you to seperate the rest of the jacket.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:37:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:51:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?


Usenet is hosted on multiple servers around the world. A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

Care to give a citation for that definition? A forum is simply a (place for)
public discussion.


Street corners have very poor bandwidth, or data retention.

The Usenet has a lot of bandwidth, but no information to retain. ;-)

Maybe, but no one archives all of the forums.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:30:03 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I have rarely ever been where it was difficult to get AC for a
regular saw, so by the time I needed one again, the batteries would be
bad.

It's not usually difficult to get AC for my cordless drills, either. It's
very convenient that I don't have to, though. OTOH, cordless saws are more
marginal, but the later models are still useful. Like I said, I use mine to
cut down sheet goods, though I just bought a more precise (corded) saw for
this purpose.

Many times the getting an extension cord out and putting it away is more
hassle than the rest of the "project" (e.g. hanging pictures or curtain rods).
Cordless tools are great for these small "projects".


I have 100' extension cords hanging on the walls of the shops, right
next to the doors. I leave them plugged in, and just lift off the
number of loops I need. They are about 5' per loop so it's easy to see
what I need. I generally use the cordless drills to work on computers,
and the regular drills for most other work. Like the 1/2" hammer drill
with a 1" masonry bit.

The only corded drill I own is a 1/2" hammer drill. I have ten cordless ones,
though.

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:24:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:37:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:51:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?


Usenet is hosted on multiple servers around the world. A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

Care to give a citation for that definition? A forum is simply a (place for)
public discussion.


Street corners have very poor bandwidth, or data retention.

The Usenet has a lot of bandwidth, but no information to retain. ;-)


Maybe, but no one archives all of the forums.

Not even the Greek ones.

 

[JW]

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:46:06 -0500 "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in Message id:
<m66c46pnqkf8esbee8912g5k88bv27ssae@4ax.com>:

The only corded drill I own is a 1/2" hammer drill. I have ten cordless ones,
though.

One for every room in the house?

 

[krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:32:28 -0400, JW <none@dev.null> wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:46:06 -0500 "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in Message id:
m66c46pnqkf8esbee8912g5k88bv27ssae@4ax.com>:


The only corded drill I own is a 1/2" hammer drill. I have ten cordless ones,
though.

One for every room in the house?

They accumulate. ;-) Actually, I included both driver/drills.

9.6/12V Makita (old, but it still works)
9.6V Makita right angle (batteries for above)
14.4V PC - Still works but I killed one set of batteries
18V Dewalt
12V Dewalt - wanted something lighter
18V Dewalt compact - was cheaper than the batteries that came with it
12V Bosch Impactor - Impact driver
12V Bosch Driver - freebie with Impactor (not terribly useful)
12V Bosch Drill - so impressed with the Impactor that I bought its brother
18V(2) Harbor Freight - borrowing bait (absolute junk)

If I didn't have any I'd buy at least four of them today.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:24:49 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:37:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:51:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:


Rui Maciel wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

This isn't a forum, it's a newsgroup.

In your opinion what's the difference?


Usenet is hosted on multiple servers around the world. A 'Forum' is
hosted on a single machine, or a single, small server farm.

Care to give a citation for that definition? A forum is simply a (place for)
public discussion.


Street corners have very poor bandwidth, or data retention.

The Usenet has a lot of bandwidth, but no information to retain. ;-)


Maybe, but no one archives all of the forums.

Not even the Greek ones.

They are too busy, getting drunk.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.