New Raspberry Pi 4 presented today

[Joerg]

On 2019-06-25 12:10, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:03:39 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gnf5vnFi6h8U1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-24 02:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New Raspberry Pi 4 quadcore presented today:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

USB3, gigabit ethernet, micro HDMI dual display 4K, WiFi,
bluetooth H264 and H265 hardware decode, 40 pin GPIO, 1, 2, or 4
GB RAM,. 5V 3 A supply.


Only minus I see is that the power consumption goes up and up
with each model, my old 1 core raspi only needs 300 mA :-(


Unfortunately it seems that it still can't do fast video such as
1080 Youtube in full screen, otherwise this would have been the
time I'd get on board:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-4-b,6193.html


Test is OK, but has some silly remarks like 'charging' via USB, and
toggling GIO pins with python (I'd use asm or C to get the real
speed), so he gets kHz and not MHz??? Could be a typo, I do not speak
snake languages,

They probably did that to test how fast the CPU can wiggle a pin from
code generated with a high-level language. That test was of little
practical value IMHO.

There is a way via omxplayer on the command line but we aren't
living in the stone age anymore.

Holly cow, who is in the stone age?

Most Linux guys are

<ducking for cover>

... I do everything from the command
line. It is only silly clueless whimsy MS widows poisoned poor left
hand mouse clunkers that do not know about scripts and commend line
because Billy the Gates removed that interface to it to avoid DrDOS
running with win 3.1, in win95.

Now try to transform yourself into a non-techie user. For example a
visitor. In our case those would be, for example, Europeans visiting and
the Raspberry would be in the guest room. Jet lag -> can't sleep ->
let's watch some news or whatever from back home. And now you seriously
want them to copy every URL they find on Youtube into a command line
windows and try it with omxplayer, only to find out this URL was no good
and then trying another 5-10 URLs?

That is stone-age.

We are 24 years later now and every kid now uses the command line ...

No, they do not. Ask some kids.

I grew up with the command line but have grown since. I also no longer
crank the motor of my car to start it, like I used to at a younger age.

... if
not they are doomed to be destroyed by Hacker in the next war trumpy
starts,


Get real. 4k I do not use, this monitor I use now is 1680 * 1050 and
is my work station.

For my older Pi you had to buy a license key to enable hardware mpeg
playback.

Does not work for Youtube.

... Not sure he had it enabled? Maybe no more key needed? I do
not know. Anyways people making 4k youtube videos with only
themselves talking should be banned to some island without
connectivity, as looking at some silly babble in 4k is a crime
against humanity and a waste, and bad for the climate [1], and etc
etc... does not add anything to the content. I am sure software will
be improved but I could not care less.

Look beyond yourself, there are others. People who want to watch foreign
news at good screen resolution, a Western at 1080p, et cetera. Or like
me yesterday, watching "Saving Private Ryan", all three hours and 20
mintes of it, very worthwhile seeing that.

... I type this on a 2.8 GHz
single core AMD sempron, so wtf. 5625.59 bogomips. Load factor 7.3 ..
about all the time that is ...

Yes I have a core i5 too, but those are full of security holes.

But they do play Youtube video in hi-def. Also, you can use Linux, makes
it much safer. I recently converted my wife's laptop to the Lubuntu OS.
After the last update it has problems with Youtube. Oh well. We can use
the Android TV box in the living room for that, it always works.

Anyways I'd expect to see youtube working , but I could not care
less. If it really does not work and I need it I will write it,


[1] we had a heat wave today, really: t_min 25.7 at 08:15 t_max 38.2
at 15:59 rh_min 24.0 at 13:42 rh_max 67.0 at 20:57

It is also clear we need a heatsink and fan in the Pi4 housing,

Yes, they were even talking about active cooling. At least a heat sink
should be added. It is not healthy to run a CPU into thermal throttling
on a reglar basis.

I wonder why. All those cheap Android TV boxes could do that since
years. We have one.

Tom does nice test, but I wonder... Was looking again today, no 4G
memory model available... But I do want one

I'll wait until there is a contemprary fix for the Youtube deficiency,
not just a stone-age kludge. Also, they should be sold with at least a
heat sink and some glue in the package. Raise the price a little to
cover that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:09:24 -0700) it happened Joerg
<news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <gnhg4uF54qqU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-25 12:10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:03:39 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gnf5vnFi6h8U1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-24 02:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New Raspberry Pi 4 quadcore presented today:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

USB3, gigabit ethernet, micro HDMI dual display 4K, WiFi,
bluetooth H264 and H265 hardware decode, 40 pin GPIO, 1, 2, or 4
GB RAM,. 5V 3 A supply.


Only minus I see is that the power consumption goes up and up
with each model, my old 1 core raspi only needs 300 mA :-(


Unfortunately it seems that it still can't do fast video such as
1080 Youtube in full screen, otherwise this would have been the
time I'd get on board:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-4-b,6193.html


Test is OK, but has some silly remarks like 'charging' via USB, and
toggling GIO pins with python (I'd use asm or C to get the real
speed), so he gets kHz and not MHz??? Could be a typo, I do not speak
snake languages,


They probably did that to test how fast the CPU can wiggle a pin from
code generated with a high-level language. That test was of little
practical value IMHO.


There is a way via omxplayer on the command line but we aren't
living in the stone age anymore.

Holly cow, who is in the stone age?


Most Linux guys are

ducking for cover

Well, opinions..
Last windows I had came with the laptop was it XP?
removed it and replaced it with Ubuntu, everything worked immediately.

... I do everything from the command
line. It is only silly clueless whimsy MS widows poisoned poor left
hand mouse clunkers that do not know about scripts and commend line
because Billy the Gates removed that interface to it to avoid DrDOS
running with win 3.1, in win95.


Now try to transform yourself into a non-techie user. For example a
visitor. In our case those would be, for example, Europeans visiting and
the Raspberry would be in the guest room. Jet lag -> can't sleep -
let's watch some news or whatever from back home. And now you seriously
want them to copy every URL they find on Youtube into a command line
windows and try it with omxplayer, only to find out this URL was no good
and then trying another 5-10 URLs?

No, that is not how it works.
But people DO need education to use advanced systems.
I find it strange that that Pi4 they tested runs that google browser (cannot remember the name)
I have seamonkey on laptop and PCs and I have no problems with youtube videos.
I do not use the raspis I have for browsing, in fact none even have a monitor connected,
it is all ssh -Y from the main PC, and the main PC can play youtube fine.
But I have a lot of real useful stuff running on those raspis, this runs 24/7 for example:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html
I can access it from the main PC, it records 24/7 there to H264,
but that program can also use the raspi monitor.

You can specify a different player I think, and then make a script that calls omxplayer,

That is stone-age.


We are 24 years later now and every kid now uses the command line ...


No, they do not. Ask some kids.

Well, US is maybe a different case
But even the Precedent types text in twitter.

I grew up with the command line but have grown since. I also no longer
crank the motor of my car to start it, like I used to at a younger age.

So silly, such a lot of work looking through icons, such a limited choice if no command line options
such a horrible search through menus, it is really for the idiots.

Look at it this way,
you need a special screw (this was my experience weeks ago)
No you go to teh super market / DIY store and see shelves full of the ones you do not want,
wasting time.
I asked the guy in the hardware shop hen I could not find what I wanted,
he came with me looking, we discussed solution (was for putting up a new fence here)
and finally we agreed on some stuff, and last week I put up the new fence and no problem.
Linux command line is like that, my computah speaks English!
Wanna know something?
apropos something
try it
then
man whatever
then run it

And learn programming in C not that kiddie snake stuff.

... if

not they are doomed to be destroyed by Hacker in the next war trumpy
starts,


Get real. 4k I do not use, this monitor I use now is 1680 * 1050 and
is my work station.

For my older Pi you had to buy a license key to enable hardware mpeg
playback.


Does not work for Youtube.

WHAT does not work on youtube?

... Not sure he had it enabled? Maybe no more key needed? I do
not know. Anyways people making 4k youtube videos with only
themselves talking should be banned to some island without
connectivity, as looking at some silly babble in 4k is a crime
against humanity and a waste, and bad for the climate [1], and etc
etc... does not add anything to the content. I am sure software will
be improved but I could not care less.


Look beyond yourself, there are others. People who want to watch foreign
news at good screen resolution, a Western at 1080p, et cetera. Or like
me yesterday, watching "Saving Private Ryan", all three hours and 20
mintes of it, very worthwhile seeing that.

On a pi? Look Joerg, I have a huge collection of movies.
I converted some in Linux with ffmpeg to a suitable format for my big Samsung 3D TV.
On a harddisk connected to that TV.
But I have just a much fun or more watching movies on this monitor.
I do not give a shit about 4k HD, it is the story not the hi-res..
That was the nice thing about books, the visualization was left to the imagination,
and at least my imagination surpasses the 4K TV in many ways ;-)
I remember reading Tolkien (Frodo stuff), and being touched to tears,
and then that movie came, well OK, nice job, but don't give a shit...

... I type this on a 2.8 GHz
single core AMD sempron, so wtf. 5625.59 bogomips. Load factor 7.3 ..
about all the time that is ...

Yes I have a core i5 too, but those are full of security holes.


But they do play Youtube video in hi-def. Also, you can use Linux, makes
it much safer. I recently converted my wife's laptop to the Lubuntu OS.
After the last update it has problems with Youtube. Oh well. We can use
the Android TV box in the living room for that, it always works.

OK, so you discovered Linux.
I switched to Linux in 1998 when I found SLS Linux (Softlanding System Linux then) on a CD that came with some magazine.
There we very few application available, so I wrote what I needed,
this newsreader is one of those early works:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html
it still works perfectly until this day, written using the RFC spec.
I have written almost everything you can think of and it all runs here
from email to video, I dunno, and also a lot for raspberries, so you could learn from that.
After all the raspberry was to introduce kids to computing, affordable, a teaching instrument
that is why I have some with a free version of mathlab.
https://www.mathworks.com/campaigns/subdomain/hardware-support.html
More typing

Anyways I'd expect to see youtube working , but I could not care
less. If it really does not work and I need it I will write it,


[1] we had a heat wave today, really: t_min 25.7 at 08:15 t_max 38.2
at 15:59 rh_min 24.0 at 13:42 rh_max 67.0 at 20:57

It is also clear we need a heatsink and fan in the Pi4 housing,


Yes, they were even talking about active cooling. At least a heat sink
should be added. It is not healthy to run a CPU into thermal throttling
on a reglar basis.


I wonder why. All those cheap Android TV boxes could do that since
years. We have one.

Tom does nice test, but I wonder... Was looking again today, no 4G
memory model available... But I do want one


I'll wait until there is a contemprary fix for the Youtube deficiency,
not just a stone-age kludge. Also, they should be sold with at least a
heat sink and some glue in the package. Raise the price a little to
cover that.

man man, just WRITE the fix, why wait for the other part of the universe to do it for you ?
Thats IS how open source works.

Now you did say you were retiring IIRC, well plenty of time, get a decent keyboard, and have a go.
My Unix (I started with that before Linux existed) book was a great help to get going in Linux.

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-06-26 10:16, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:09:24 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gnhg4uF54qqU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-25 12:10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:03:39 -0700) it happened
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gnf5vnFi6h8U1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-24 02:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New Raspberry Pi 4 quadcore presented today:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/raspberry-pi-4-model-b/

USB3, gigabit ethernet, micro HDMI dual display 4K, WiFi,
bluetooth H264 and H265 hardware decode, 40 pin GPIO, 1, 2,
or 4 GB RAM,. 5V 3 A supply.


Only minus I see is that the power consumption goes up and
up with each model, my old 1 core raspi only needs 300 mA
:-(


Unfortunately it seems that it still can't do fast video such
as 1080 Youtube in full screen, otherwise this would have been
the time I'd get on board:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-4-b,6193.html




Test is OK, but has some silly remarks like 'charging' via USB, and
toggling GIO pins with python (I'd use asm or C to get the real
speed), so he gets kHz and not MHz??? Could be a typo, I do not
speak snake languages,


They probably did that to test how fast the CPU can wiggle a pin
from code generated with a high-level language. That test was of
little practical value IMHO.


There is a way via omxplayer on the command line but we aren't
living in the stone age anymore.

Holly cow, who is in the stone age?


Most Linux guys are

ducking for cover

Well, opinions.. Last windows I had came with the laptop was it XP?
removed it and replaced it with Ubuntu, everything worked
immediately.

It was the exact opposite here. A lot of stuff no longer worked after
switching to Linux. Some never did, such as hibernate. Then some stuff
worked and after a regular OS update of Lubuntu it no longer did, such
as audio on Youtube. Doesn't leave a very professional taste but, oh
well, it's free.

The main reason for my switch is that I am gradually retiring so the
number of important programs that won't run under Linux is shrinking and
I do not wish to expose myself to Windows 10 next year.

... I do everything from the command
line. It is only silly clueless whimsy MS widows poisoned poor
left hand mouse clunkers that do not know about scripts and
commend line because Billy the Gates removed that interface to it
to avoid DrDOS running with win 3.1, in win95.


Now try to transform yourself into a non-techie user. For example
a visitor. In our case those would be, for example, Europeans
visiting and the Raspberry would be in the guest room. Jet lag -
can't sleep -> let's watch some news or whatever from back home.
And now you seriously want them to copy every URL they find on
Youtube into a command line windows and try it with omxplayer, only
to find out this URL was no good and then trying another 5-10
URLs?

No, that is not how it works. But people DO need education to use
advanced systems. I find it strange that that Pi4 they tested runs
that google browser (cannot remember the name) I have seamonkey on
laptop and PCs and I have no problems with youtube videos. I do not
use the raspis I have for browsing, in fact none even have a monitor
connected, it is all ssh -Y from the main PC, and the main PC can
play youtube fine.

We were talking about the Raspberry. Of course a PC can do it, even with
Linux.

... But I have a lot of real useful stuff running on
those raspis, this runs 24/7 for example:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html I can access it from
the main PC, it records 24/7 there to H264, but that program can also
use the raspi monitor.

Such more embedded applications are some of the reasons I'd like to jump
to Raspberry, mainly to automate my hobby brewrey a bit more than it is.
But it has to properly run Youtube full screen so I can watch mountain
bike videos while waiting for the next hop additions.

You can specify a different player I think, and then make a script
that calls omxplayer,

Well, I do not want to become a hardcore programmer. This sort of stuff
should work out-of-the-box on any modern system. So far it doesn't on
the Rasberry even after several generations. Beats me why, since the
Android boxes can do it with much less CPU horsepower for years it can't
be rocket science.

That is stone-age.


We are 24 years later now and every kid now uses the command line
...


No, they do not. Ask some kids.

Well, US is maybe a different case But even the Precedent types
text in twitter.

Texting on Twitter has absolutely nothing to do with command line work.
It's essentially modern day typewriter use, at best.

I grew up with the command line but have grown since. I also no
longer crank the motor of my car to start it, like I used to at a
younger age.

So silly, such a lot of work looking through icons, such a limited
choice if no command line options such a horrible search through
menus, it is really for the idiots.

You don't seem to know any programs with good GUI.

Example: Try to find the movies or even still images you like via the
command line, only being able to see their file names.

Look at it this way, you need a special screw (this was my experience
weeks ago) No you go to teh super market / DIY store and see shelves
full of the ones you do not want, wasting time. I asked the guy in
the hardware shop hen I could not find what I wanted, he came with me
looking, we discussed solution (was for putting up a new fence here)
and finally we agreed on some stuff, and last week I put up the new
fence and no problem. Linux command line is like that, my computah
speaks English! Wanna know something? apropos something try it then
man whatever then run it

And learn programming in C not that kiddie snake stuff.

I don't want to learn any programming. Believe it or not but I
successfully went through several decades of career without it. Whenever
something needs to be coded I outsource that just like I do with board
layouts.

... if
not they are doomed to be destroyed by Hacker in the next war
trumpy starts,


Get real. 4k I do not use, this monitor I use now is 1680 * 1050
and is my work station.

For my older Pi you had to buy a license key to enable hardware
mpeg playback.


Does not work for Youtube.

WHAT does not work on youtube?

MPEG playback. That is not enough to make Youtube work. The computer has
to properly execute HTML5 or run a Youtube app.

... Not sure he had it enabled? Maybe no more key needed? I do
not know. Anyways people making 4k youtube videos with only
themselves talking should be banned to some island without
connectivity, as looking at some silly babble in 4k is a crime
against humanity and a waste, and bad for the climate [1], and
etc etc... does not add anything to the content. I am sure
software will be improved but I could not care less.


Look beyond yourself, there are others. People who want to watch
foreign news at good screen resolution, a Western at 1080p, et
cetera. Or like me yesterday, watching "Saving Private Ryan", all
three hours and 20 mintes of it, very worthwhile seeing that.

On a pi? Look Joerg, I have a huge collection of movies. I converted
some in Linux with ffmpeg to a suitable format for my big Samsung 3D
TV. On a harddisk connected to that TV. But I have just a much fun or
more watching movies on this monitor. I do not give a shit about 4k
HD, it is the story not the hi-res.. That was the nice thing about
books, the visualization was left to the imagination, and at least my
imagination surpasses the 4K TV in many ways ;-) I remember reading
Tolkien (Frodo stuff), and being touched to tears, and then that
movie came, well OK, nice job, but don't give a shit...

Canned movies work fine, even on a Rasberry. That's not what we are
talking about. We are talking about browsing Youtube, finding this, that
and the other thing, then watching the selected movie right on Youtube
like I did yesterday. You want to _quickly_ be able to try all those
until you find the movie you like. That simply does not work via the
command line.

... I type this on a 2.8 GHz single core AMD sempron, so wtf.
5625.59 bogomips. Load factor 7.3 .. about all the time that is
...

Yes I have a core i5 too, but those are full of security holes.


But they do play Youtube video in hi-def. Also, you can use Linux,
makes it much safer. I recently converted my wife's laptop to the
Lubuntu OS. After the last update it has problems with Youtube. Oh
well. We can use the Android TV box in the living room for that, it
always works.

OK, so you discovered Linux. I switched to Linux in 1998 when I found
SLS Linux (Softlanding System Linux then) on a CD that came with some
magazine. There we very few application available, so I wrote what I
needed, this newsreader is one of those early works:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/newsflex/index.html it still works
perfectly until this day, written using the RFC spec. I have written
almost everything you can think of and it all runs here from email to
video, I dunno, and also a lot for raspberries, so you could learn
from that. After all the raspberry was to introduce kids to
computing, affordable, a teaching instrument that is why I have some
with a free version of mathlab.
https://www.mathworks.com/campaigns/subdomain/hardware-support.html
More typing

Well, I use Thunderbird as a newsreader since day one, no need to write
anything myself. It just works. Same with all other stuff. For example,
if something needs to be automated there are reay-made GUI programs such
as Azeotech DAQFactory for that. Why should I spend time re-inventing
the wheel?

Anyways I'd expect to see youtube working , but I could not care
less. If it really does not work and I need it I will write it,


[1] we had a heat wave today, really: t_min 25.7 at 08:15 t_max
38.2 at 15:59 rh_min 24.0 at 13:42 rh_max 67.0 at 20:57

It is also clear we need a heatsink and fan in the Pi4 housing,


Yes, they were even talking about active cooling. At least a heat
sink should be added. It is not healthy to run a CPU into thermal
throttling on a reglar basis.


I wonder why. All those cheap Android TV boxes could do that
since years. We have one.

Tom does nice test, but I wonder... Was looking again today, no
4G memory model available... But I do want one


I'll wait until there is a contemprary fix for the Youtube
deficiency, not just a stone-age kludge. Also, they should be sold
with at least a heat sink and some glue in the package. Raise the
price a little to cover that.

man man, just WRITE the fix, why wait for the other part of the
universe to do it for you ? Thats IS how open source works.

I am not a software coder and it is also no fun for me. Then, I do not
necessarily need the fix as I can simply buy an Android box. It costs
less than a Rasberry and does Youtube nicely. That's what I did for the
living room. Might do the same for downstairs, an Android box for
Youtube and a small laptop with a Labjack for automation.

Now you did say you were retiring IIRC, well plenty of time, get a
decent keyboard, and have a go. My Unix (I started with that before
Linux existed) book was a great help to get going in Linux.

I tried a bit of that, didn't like it. About the same "fun" as having to
eat pea soup which I don't like. For many people like me retiring does
not mean more free time as we engage more in volunteering. In my case
much of that is lay caregiving and elder care visits. There comes a
point where one should give back to society, IMHO. Long story short this
does not leave much time to pick up a new hobby.

Also, getting older one should engage in more sporting activities and
programming is pretty bad in that respect as it is a very sedentary
activity.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:13:11 -0700) it happened Joerg
<news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <gni8vfFabqcU1@mid.individual.net>:

ducking for cover

Well, opinions.. Last windows I had came with the laptop was it XP?
removed it and replaced it with Ubuntu, everything worked
immediately.


It was the exact opposite here. A lot of stuff no longer worked after
switching to Linux. Some never did, such as hibernate. Then some stuff
worked and after a regular OS update of Lubuntu it no longer did, such
as audio on Youtube. Doesn't leave a very professional taste but, oh
well, it's free.

The main reason for my switch is that I am gradually retiring so the
number of important programs that won't run under Linux is shrinking and
I do not wish to expose myself to Windows 10 next year.

Again, Linux works just fine, a lot better than MS stuff.
Again Raspberry is an education system,
if Tom's review treats it as a full blown PC,
and then cannot get youtube working, means he is just observing and clueless to the purpose of that raspberry.

And yes it is meant to make all sort of projects, if YOU want something YOU think should be there, WRITE IT!!!
That is the idea.

... I do everything from the command
line. It is only silly clueless whimsy MS widows poisoned poor
left hand mouse clunkers that do not know about scripts and
commend line because Billy the Gates removed that interface to it
to avoid DrDOS running with win 3.1, in win95.


Now try to transform yourself into a non-techie user. For example
a visitor. In our case those would be, for example, Europeans
visiting and the Raspberry would be in the guest room. Jet lag -
can't sleep -> let's watch some news or whatever from back home.
And now you seriously want them to copy every URL they find on
Youtube into a command line windows and try it with omxplayer, only
to find out this URL was no good and then trying another 5-10
URLs?

No, that is not how it works. But people DO need education to use
advanced systems. I find it strange that that Pi4 they tested runs
that google browser (cannot remember the name) I have seamonkey on
laptop and PCs and I have no problems with youtube videos. I do not
use the raspis I have for browsing, in fact none even have a monitor
connected, it is all ssh -Y from the main PC, and the main PC can
play youtube fine.


We were talking about the Raspberry. Of course a PC can do it, even with
Linux.

You are talking about your house guests, so leave a nice PC for them with whatever you think they need.
If it is a techy kid give it a Raspberry, make sure you secretly keep a backup of the sdcard that works
and have them have a go.

I have backups of every raspi system here on hardisk on a normal PC, and on a stand alone 1TB, and some on optical.

... But I have a lot of real useful stuff running on
those raspis, this runs 24/7 for example:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html I can access it from
the main PC, it records 24/7 there to H264, but that program can also
use the raspi monitor.


Such more embedded applications are some of the reasons I'd like to jump
to Raspberry, mainly to automate my hobby brewrey a bit more than it is.
But it has to properly run Youtube full screen so I can watch mountain
bike videos while waiting for the next hop additions.

One system I sometimes use is copy the youtube URL,
do a google for 'save youtube video', select that site, copy that youtube URL into it
and save the youtube video to harddisk.
then I can play it with whatever I want whenever I want even if not online.
l ~/youtube_videos/
....
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20613192 Jan 7 2014 Schlieren_photography_of_moving_air.webm
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 10699185 May 21 2014 NASA_SDO_fiery_looping_rain_on_the_sun.flv
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7248818 Jul 1 2014 The_pilot-wave_dynamics_of_walking_droplets.flv
.....

BTW 'l' is short for ls -rtl, specify in your .bashrc script.
No way around scripts and command lines in Linux.

Even on the raspberries I have replaced whatever the GUI is these days with my good old fvwm
using 9 virtual screens, 8 of these have rxvt terminals, one has xfm file selector with icons
one runs browser, an other one an audio mixer, well for software development you want terminals
pdf datasheet in one, source code in one, compiler in the next, other program to connect to
in other terminals, ssh to other putahs on the LAN or wherever more terminal,
standard setup in ALL systems here,
Compiled from source every time, no raspberry release is left untouched.

You can specify a different player I think, and then make a script
that calls omxplayer,


Well, I do not want to become a hardcore programmer. This sort of stuff
should work out-of-the-box on any modern system. So far it doesn't on
the Rasberry even after several generations. Beats me why, since the
Android boxes can do it with much less CPU horsepower for years it can't
be rocket science.

Because again, it is a learning system, fix it is a challenge,
else buy a rubbing device (als called 'pad' sometimes).

Texting on Twitter has absolutely nothing to do with command line work.
It's essentially modern day typewriter use, at best.

There is no difference, my puter speaks English
If I type
show zdf
then this happens:
http://panteltje.com/pub/zdf.gif

look at how it talks to you from top left.


show bbc1
http://panteltje.com/pub/bbc1.gif

or videotext (spoken as ceefax in the UK):
http://panteltje.com/pub/txt-zdf.gif

Want full screen? Just hit 'f'
all programs I wrote, xdipo dish positioning (it has to move, BBC1 is on a different satellite than ZDF,
xvtx-p is a ceefax viewer I wrote, with click on number and four pages at the time, macros
and a whole lot of things nobody else has.
The little window top right shows my raspi router net connection, the little xterm on the bottom right I specially
opened for you to be able to get a root window screen shot.... uploaded with a simple script to my website...

Joerg you have work to do (and BTW all this also runs on raspi),
I have voice command too, but never use it, not even sure it is still compiled on this PC.
Same xdipo will tune to qo100 satellite .. http://panteltje.com/pub/leandvb_wbbeacon_rx_2.gif
that is the ham wideband transponder on es'hail-2 qo100... decoded with leansdr in software (did not write that one myself)
etc etc

I grew up with the command line but have grown since. I also no
longer crank the motor of my car to start it, like I used to at a
younger age.

So silly, such a lot of work looking through icons, such a limited
choice if no command line options such a horrible search through
menus, it is really for the idiots.


You don't seem to know any programs with good GUI.

The programs I wrote / write that have a GUI have a GOOD GUI, there are now almost a hundred.

Example: Try to find the movies or even still images you like via the
command line, only being able to see their file names.

You really have no clue Joerg about the subject.

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie
show all movies I have

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie | grep bond
show all bond movies I have

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie | grep star
will likely show all the starwars movies
etc etc
say it says: From Russia With Love (I am safe I have the DVD too, cuppy thing..)

panteltje12: ~ # cat dvd-list.txt | grep -i from_russia
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5938849792 Oct 8 16:37 bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg

so then simply type:
xine bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg
or
mplayer bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg

ffwd etc is so fast with mplayer you will find anything in seconds.

You want to see individual pictures and write Dutch subtitles for a movie?
I wrote that too:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/index.html

OK it is getting boring
Get a clue, program something in Linux, then ask again if you run into trouble
Else just stay with mswidows


http://panteltje.com/pub/NewsFleX_posting_screenshot_IMG_7150.JPG
can use any editor I want, I use 'joe', been using it for > 20 years I think.

 

[Joerg]

On 2019-06-27 00:39, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:13:11 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gni8vfFabqcU1@mid.individual.net>:

ducking for cover

Well, opinions.. Last windows I had came with the laptop was it
XP? removed it and replaced it with Ubuntu, everything worked
immediately.


It was the exact opposite here. A lot of stuff no longer worked
after switching to Linux. Some never did, such as hibernate. Then
some stuff worked and after a regular OS update of Lubuntu it no
longer did, such as audio on Youtube. Doesn't leave a very
professional taste but, oh well, it's free.

The main reason for my switch is that I am gradually retiring so
the number of important programs that won't run under Linux is
shrinking and I do not wish to expose myself to Windows 10 next
year.

Again, Linux works just fine, a lot better than MS stuff.

That is your opinion. My experience so far is different and I am not alone.

... Again
Raspberry is an education system, if Tom's review treats it as a full
blown PC, and then cannot get youtube working, means he is just
observing and clueless to the purpose of that raspberry.

Then why is even the Raspberyy Foundation harping on discussions to use
it as a PC?

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/raspberry-pi-desktop-pc/

And yes it is meant to make all sort of projects, if YOU want
something YOU think should be there, WRITE IT!!! That is the idea.

In real life that doesn't work for driver-level stuff. Which is probably
why nobody has ever written a fix for the sluggish Youtube performance
of the Raspberry over many years.

... I do everything from the command
line. It is only silly clueless whimsy MS widows poisoned
poor left hand mouse clunkers that do not know about scripts
and commend line because Billy the Gates removed that
interface to it to avoid DrDOS running with win 3.1, in
win95.


Now try to transform yourself into a non-techie user. For
example a visitor. In our case those would be, for example,
Europeans visiting and the Raspberry would be in the guest
room. Jet lag -> can't sleep -> let's watch some news or
whatever from back home. And now you seriously want them to
copy every URL they find on Youtube into a command line windows
and try it with omxplayer, only to find out this URL was no
good and then trying another 5-10 URLs?

No, that is not how it works. But people DO need education to
use advanced systems. I find it strange that that Pi4 they tested
runs that google browser (cannot remember the name) I have
seamonkey on laptop and PCs and I have no problems with youtube
videos. I do not use the raspis I have for browsing, in fact none
even have a monitor connected, it is all ssh -Y from the main PC,
and the main PC can play youtube fine.


We were talking about the Raspberry. Of course a PC can do it, even
with Linux.

You are talking about your house guests, so leave a nice PC for them
with whatever you think they need. If it is a techy kid give it a
Raspberry, make sure you secretly keep a backup of the sdcard that
works and have them have a go.

I have backups of every raspi system here on hardisk on a normal PC,
and on a stand alone 1TB, and some on optical.

I will probably do that now, not a PC but an Android box or get a tablet
with HDMI output. I am the kind of guy who looks for the easiest
solution for a given problem.

... But I have a lot of real useful stuff running on those
raspis, this runs 24/7 for example:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xgpspc/index.html I can access it
from the main PC, it records 24/7 there to H264, but that program
can also use the raspi monitor.


Such more embedded applications are some of the reasons I'd like to
jump to Raspberry, mainly to automate my hobby brewrey a bit more
than it is. But it has to properly run Youtube full screen so I can
watch mountain bike videos while waiting for the next hop
additions.

One system I sometimes use is copy the youtube URL, do a google for
'save youtube video', select that site, copy that youtube URL into
it and save the youtube video to harddisk. then I can play it with
whatever I want whenever I want even if not online. l
~/youtube_videos/ ... -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 20613192 Jan 7 2014
Schlieren_photography_of_moving_air.webm -rw-r--r-- 1 root root
10699185 May 21 2014 NASA_SDO_fiery_looping_rain_on_the_sun.flv
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7248818 Jul 1 2014
The_pilot-wave_dynamics_of_walking_droplets.flv ....

That's like the method I used to start my Citroen 2CV. GRab the small
wood stick and the hand crank, open the hood, place the wood stick under
the regulator contacts in the (always open) regulator box, plug in a
stack of D-cells, crank the engine, remove the wood piece, close the
hood, remove the D-cell stack, start motoring out onto the roads.
Simple, right?

BTW 'l' is short for ls -rtl, specify in your .bashrc script. No way
around scripts and command lines in Linux.

Yeah, that's one of the problems I already figured out in Linux. Back to
the 70's. It's ok, I grew up with it but I do not like to go backwards.

Even on the raspberries I have replaced whatever the GUI is these
days with my good old fvwm using 9 virtual screens, 8 of these have
rxvt terminals, one has xfm file selector with icons one runs
browser, an other one an audio mixer, well for software development
you want terminals pdf datasheet in one, source code in one, compiler
in the next, other program to connect to in other terminals, ssh to
other putahs on the LAN or wherever more terminal, standard setup in
ALL systems here, Compiled from source every time, no raspberry
release is left untouched.

That's fine for hobbyists who like to program. For me a computer of any
sorts doesn't receive a higher regard than a tool such as a pair of pliers.

You can specify a different player I think, and then make a
script that calls omxplayer,


Well, I do not want to become a hardcore programmer. This sort of
stuff should work out-of-the-box on any modern system. So far it
doesn't on the Rasberry even after several generations. Beats me
why, since the Android boxes can do it with much less CPU
horsepower for years it can't be rocket science.

Because again, it is a learning system, fix it is a challenge, else
buy a rubbing device (als called 'pad' sometimes).

Then it should be advertized as such. Just as Linux should not be
advertized as an Windows alternative.

Texting on Twitter has absolutely nothing to do with command line
work. It's essentially modern day typewriter use, at best.

There is no difference, my puter speaks English If I type show zdf
then this happens: http://panteltje.com/pub/zdf.gif

look at how it talks to you from top left.


show bbc1 http://panteltje.com/pub/bbc1.gif

I don't need all that sermon in the command line windows.

As I said this does not work if you are searching for something where
you only vaguely remember the details and where you need to look at
umpteen _pictures_ simultaneously in a fast scroll. That won't work at
all via command line.

Looking for a mainstream TV station is a piece of cake, finding that
video about that lone mountain bike trail you want to re-visit but where
you only remember the scenery from an actual ride is not.

or videotext (spoken as ceefax in the UK):
http://panteltje.com/pub/txt-zdf.gif

Surprised that teletext still lives. My dad used it to track our flights
over but that was last century.

Want full screen? Just hit 'f' all programs I wrote, xdipo dish
positioning (it has to move, BBC1 is on a different satellite than
ZDF, xvtx-p is a ceefax viewer I wrote, with click on number and four
pages at the time, macros and a whole lot of things nobody else has.
The little window top right shows my raspi router net connection, the
little xterm on the bottom right I specially opened for you to be
able to get a root window screen shot.... uploaded with a simple
script to my website...

Joerg you have work to do (and BTW all this also runs on raspi), ...

My "work-work" won't run on a Raspberry, that needs the big i7 machine here.

... I
have voice command too, but never use it, not even sure it is still
compiled on this PC. Same xdipo will tune to qo100 satellite ..
http://panteltje.com/pub/leandvb_wbbeacon_rx_2.gif that is the ham
wideband transponder on es'hail-2 qo100... decoded with leansdr in
software (did not write that one myself) etc etc

For you as a programmer that's easy. For non-programmers like me it isn't.

I grew up with the command line but have grown since. I also
no longer crank the motor of my car to start it, like I used to
at a younger age.

So silly, such a lot of work looking through icons, such a
limited choice if no command line options such a horrible search
through menus, it is really for the idiots.


You don't seem to know any programs with good GUI.

The programs I wrote / write that have a GUI have a GOOD GUI, there
are now almost a hundred.

Then I don't get it why you do not understand my examples and the value
a GUI can provide over a command line.

Example: Try to find the movies or even still images you like via
the command line, only being able to see their file names.

You really have no clue Joerg about the subject.

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie show all movies I have

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie | grep bond show all bond
movies I have

cat /root/dvd-list.txt | grep amovie | grep star will likely show
all the starwars movies etc etc say it says: From Russia With Love (I
am safe I have the DVD too, cuppy thing..)

panteltje12: ~ # cat dvd-list.txt | grep -i from_russia -rw-r--r-- 1
root root 5938849792 Oct 8 16:37 bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg

so then simply type: xine bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg or mplayer
bond_from_russia_with_love.mpg

ffwd etc is so fast with mplayer you will find anything in seconds.

You want to see individual pictures and write Dutch subtitles for a
movie? I wrote that too:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/dvd/index.html

<sigh>

It is _not_ about movies I have, it is about the ones I do _not_ have.
Searching for such stuff as outlined above and in posts before without a
GUI is useless.

OK it is getting boring Get a clue, program something in Linux, then
ask again if you run into trouble Else just stay with mswidows

http://panteltje.com/pub/NewsFleX_posting_screenshot_IMG_7150.JPG can
use any editor I want, I use 'joe', been using it for > 20 years I
think.

I converted one computer to Linux so far, for my wife. Some things no
longer work in Linux but it's "good enough". Next up is the lab bench PC
when I have time. No rush there because that one isn't used for Internet.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:22:59 -0700) it happened Joerg
<news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <gnk8qrFnfniU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 2019-06-27 00:39, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:13:11 -0700) it happened Joerg
news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in
gni8vfFabqcU1@mid.individual.net>:

ducking for cover

Well, opinions.. Last windows I had came with the laptop was it
XP? removed it and replaced it with Ubuntu, everything worked
immediately.


It was the exact opposite here. A lot of stuff no longer worked
after switching to Linux. Some never did, such as hibernate. Then
some stuff worked and after a regular OS update of Lubuntu it no
longer did, such as audio on Youtube. Doesn't leave a very
professional taste but, oh well, it's free.

The main reason for my switch is that I am gradually retiring so
the number of important programs that won't run under Linux is
shrinking and I do not wish to expose myself to Windows 10 next
year.

Again, Linux works just fine, a lot better than MS stuff.


That is your opinion. My experience so far is different and I am not alone.

Sure, but try to understand what I wrote.


... Again

Raspberry is an education system, if Tom's review treats it as a full
blown PC, and then cannot get youtube working, means he is just
observing and clueless to the purpose of that raspberry.


Then why is even the Raspberyy Foundation harping on discussions to use
it as a PC?

Anybody can discuss anything (this group being g a perfect example of that)
and indeed you can use a raspberry (any Raspberry Pi) as general purpose PC.


get a life, when in 19998 I started with Linux it was on a DX2-66
That twas the days of Win3.1, running on DRDOS for me, trumpet winsock
and NOBODY did say it was not a general purpose PC.

What we call general purpose PC has changed a lot since X86, or Kaypro II for that matter.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/raspberry-pi-desktop-pc/


And yes it is meant to make all sort of projects, if YOU want
something YOU think should be there, WRITE IT!!! That is the idea.


In real life that doesn't work for driver-level stuff. Which is probably
why nobody has ever written a fix for the sluggish Youtube performance
of the Raspberry over many years.

Are you always so silly self centered?

Who The Fuck do you think writes all those kernel drivers,
all that application software?
All people who do it for fun, and if you cannot find a way to use it, then it is your problem.
those kernel developers do great work.
There are fantastic application developers, unlike half sleeping moronic tinkers that work for MS
or even Boeing it seems for max profit only.

Nothing is perfect, but it is constantly being developed and if YOU do not take the time
to study 1) Unix, 2) Linux, 3) how to write scripts, 4) how to program for that system,
then go elsewhere with your silly complaints.
You have money buy a core I7 or whatever,

For your alcoholic drives a simple PIC micro controller would likely already be overkill, I would
then write that in PIC asm, but here nobody already wrote it for you, how bad of them.
Do NOT piss me off, study the raspi, learn how to use it, CONTRIBUTE f*cking something
and stop complaining like an idiot.
I Have Spoken.

I just wrote an other program that does not exist to fix a problem I encountered with some cameras.
It is almost ready for release so an other one, few hours work, interesting, fun, testing, making a release,

The world is full of complainers, no shortage of those.
If it is not to your linking and beyond your capabilities to fix it, then hire someone
if you cannot afford that, find an other hobby or stop drinking
that also solves the problem.
Again I have Spoken,