New high-temperature super-conductor

[Bill Sloman]

This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 05:18:09 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

Not very interesting, since it is still below 77 K, the boiling point
of liquid nitrogen.

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.

In addition to the temperature, the other critical parameter is the
maximum current densities supported by any exotic HTS. They tend to
loose superconductivity if too high current densities are used, so
wide sheets of metal is needed to carry a decent current. AC is out of
the question for such cables and even bringing up a DC current can
take a long time.

 

[George Herold]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 9:27:08 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 05:18:09 -0700 (PDT), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

Not very interesting, since it is still below 77 K, the boiling point
of liquid nitrogen.


I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.

In addition to the temperature, the other critical parameter is the
maximum current densities supported by any exotic HTS. They tend to
loose superconductivity if too high current densities are used, so
wide sheets of metal is needed to carry a decent current. AC is out of
the question for such cables and even bringing up a DC current can
take a long time.

Yeah I don't get the numbers. YBaCuO's are ~90 K.
(an other higher ones... no idea about the critical currents/ B-fields.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_superconductivity#YBaCuO_superconductors

George H.

 

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:51:38 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

On 21/06/2019 10:18 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:
This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences
reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical
temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but
above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even
speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.


I don't accept the hype about using superconductors for power
transmission anyway. It's not as if the existing transmission
infrastructure wastes that much, and the infrastructure required to keep
cables cool would be hugely expensive.

A superconducting cable has a constant dissipation due to the cooling.
With sufficient power, the cooling losses are smaller than the copper
losses in ordinary HV lines. Unfortunately, the breaking point is
about 10 GW for a few thousand kilometer links. Such power levels
require a few nuclear reactors or something like full scale DESERTEC
solar power system (politically too risky after the Arab spring).

Seems to be a solution looking for a problem and one that would be
killed by economics.

Sylvia.

 

[Rick C]

It's easy to tell this is an engineering group. When research is announced it is immediately criticized if it isn't ready for commercialization. In this case no one is talking about this being an immediately useful substance. Rather they say, "with two unique features: an exceptionally compressed local octahedron and heavily overdoped hole carriers. These two features are in sharp contrast to the favorable criteria for all previously known cuprate superconductors. Thus, the discovery of high-Tc superconductivity in Ba2CuO4-y calls into question the widely accepted scenario of superconductivity in the cuprates. This discovery provides a direction to search for additional high-Tc superconductors."

In other words, "Hmmm... isn't this curious? Let's take a better look."

Superconductivity is still a new field with lots of corners to look around. Much of the research is still a matter of searching a rather large tree.

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Sylvia Else]

On 21/06/2019 10:18 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:

This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences
reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical
temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but
above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even
speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.

I don't accept the hype about using superconductors for power
transmission anyway. It's not as if the existing transmission
infrastructure wastes that much, and the infrastructure required to keep
cables cool would be hugely expensive.

Seems to be a solution looking for a problem and one that would be
killed by economics.

Sylvia.

 

[Winfield Hill]

Bill Sloman wrote...

This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences
reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical
temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature
but above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet,
or even speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.

I thought there were super-conductors that operate at
much higher temperatures than that, what's the catch?


--
Thanks,
- Win

 

[Rick C]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 9:51:44 AM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:

On 21/06/2019 10:18 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:
This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences
reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical
temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but
above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even
speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.


I don't accept the hype about using superconductors for power
transmission anyway. It's not as if the existing transmission
infrastructure wastes that much, and the infrastructure required to keep
cables cool would be hugely expensive.

Seems to be a solution looking for a problem and one that would be
killed by economics.

The refrigeration costs are pretty small actually. The Ampacity project is running a 1 km, 10 kV, 4 kA cable with good results. The power used to keep the cable cold appears to only be 43 kW or about 0.1%. The actual cooling used is only about 1.8 kW.

The power industry is not stupid. They can figure out what will work and what won't. If there was no need, no one would be looking at it.

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 17:29:30 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:51:38 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid
wrote:

On 21/06/2019 10:18 pm, Bill Sloman wrote:
This week's Proceedings of the (US) National Academy of Sciences
reports a new high temperature super-conductor, with a critical
temperature up at 73K (which is still well below room temperature but
above the 66K which was the previous peak).

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/25/12156.abstract?etoc

I can get access to the full paper if anybody is interested.

Nobody is talking about making cables out of the stuff yet, or even
speculating if it could be made into a conducting lead.


I don't accept the hype about using superconductors for power
transmission anyway. It's not as if the existing transmission
infrastructure wastes that much, and the infrastructure required to keep
cables cool would be hugely expensive.

A superconducting cable has a constant dissipation due to the cooling.
With sufficient power, the cooling losses are smaller than the copper
losses in ordinary HV lines. Unfortunately, the breaking point is
about 10 GW for a few thousand kilometer links. Such power levels
require a few nuclear reactors or something like full scale DESERTEC
solar power system (politically too risky after the Arab spring).


Seems to be a solution looking for a problem and one that would be
killed by economics.

Sylvia.

Failures would be spectacular and slow to repair.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

 

[whit3rd]

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 8:57:22 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

> Failures would be spectacular and slow to repair.

So, just like bridges, oil pipelines, and aircraft softwares.
Sounds good, let's do it!

The experience is with liquid helium technoology (too expensive).
A grid-scale application of superconducting links can be economic as
materials and technologies evolve.

 

[bitrex]

On 6/21/19 2:56 PM, whit3rd wrote:

On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 8:57:22 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Failures would be spectacular and slow to repair.

So, just like bridges, oil pipelines, and aircraft softwares.
Sounds good, let's do it!

The experience is with liquid helium technoology (too expensive).
A grid-scale application of superconducting links can be economic as
materials and technologies evolve.

Superconducting inductor as bulk energy storage, pump energy in and the
current goes round and round and round. Failure would also be
spectacular but most high density energy storage failures usually are

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 19:34:14 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/21/19 2:56 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 8:57:22 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Failures would be spectacular and slow to repair.

So, just like bridges, oil pipelines, and aircraft softwares.
Sounds good, let's do it!

The experience is with liquid helium technoology (too expensive).
A grid-scale application of superconducting links can be economic as
materials and technologies evolve.


Superconducting inductor as bulk energy storage, pump energy in and the
current goes round and round and round. Failure would also be
spectacular but most high density energy storage failures usually are

One idea was a miles-in-diameter superconducting coil to store energy.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

 

[bitrex]

On 6/21/19 8:47 PM, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 19:34:14 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 6/21/19 2:56 PM, whit3rd wrote:
On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 8:57:22 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

Failures would be spectacular and slow to repair.

So, just like bridges, oil pipelines, and aircraft softwares.
Sounds good, let's do it!

The experience is with liquid helium technoology (too expensive).
A grid-scale application of superconducting links can be economic as
materials and technologies evolve.


Superconducting inductor as bulk energy storage, pump energy in and the
current goes round and round and round. Failure would also be
spectacular but most high density energy storage failures usually are

One idea was a miles-in-diameter superconducting coil to store energy.

One of those megaprojects where I would say the chances between it and a
transatlantic maglev train from New York to London via Greenland, which
will come first, about 50/50. I'm hoping for the train

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 1:17:33 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:

On 6/21/19 8:47 PM, John Larkin wrote:

One idea was a miles-in-diameter superconducting coil to store energy.



One of those megaprojects where I would say the chances between it and a
transatlantic maglev train from New York to London via Greenland, which
will come first, about 50/50. I'm hoping for the train

It wasn't too long ago Larkin was singing his praises of brainstorming and how valuable the people who will propose extreme ideas were. When he hears about someone else running a new idea up a flagpole to see who salutes he has to ridicule it.

Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 6/22/19 2:20 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 2:16:05 AM UTC-4, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rick C wrote:

Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

There was a plan to put it in a submerged but near the surface tunnel
across the atlantic and pump the atmosphere out. Expected speed was
18,000 miles per hour but it would take the whole of the planets
production of steel for a year to accomplish. This was well before
Musks hyperloop idea.

I wonder how you would keep it from floating?

18,000 mph is an impossible speed there's not enough distance to
accelerate and slow down gently enough, making your passengers pull 5 Gs
like an astronaut on launch is bad for ticket sales!

1000 - 2000 mph is fine

 

[bitrex]

On 6/22/19 2:07 AM, Rodney Pont wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rick C wrote:

Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

There was a plan to put it in a submerged but near the surface tunnel
across the atlantic and pump the atmosphere out. Expected speed was
18,000 miles per hour but it would take the whole of the planets
production of steel for a year to accomplish. This was well before
Musks hyperloop idea.

If you're going to go that fast might as well go Labrador -> Greenland
-> Iceland -> UK you "only" have to cross like 700 miles of open water
that way.

 

[Rick C]

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 2:16:05 AM UTC-4, Rodney Pont wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rick C wrote:

Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

There was a plan to put it in a submerged but near the surface tunnel
across the atlantic and pump the atmosphere out. Expected speed was
18,000 miles per hour but it would take the whole of the planets
production of steel for a year to accomplish. This was well before
Musks hyperloop idea.

I wonder how you would keep it from floating?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rodney Pont]

On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rick C wrote:

>Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

There was a plan to put it in a submerged but near the surface tunnel
across the atlantic and pump the atmosphere out. Expected speed was
18,000 miles per hour but it would take the whole of the planets
production of steel for a year to accomplish. This was well before
Musks hyperloop idea.

--
Regards - Rodney Pont
The from address exists but is mostly dumped,
please send any emails to the address below
e-mail rpont (at) gmail (dot) com

 

[bitrex]

On 6/22/19 1:26 AM, Rick C wrote:

On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 1:17:33 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
On 6/21/19 8:47 PM, John Larkin wrote:

One idea was a miles-in-diameter superconducting coil to store energy.



One of those megaprojects where I would say the chances between it and a
transatlantic maglev train from New York to London via Greenland, which
will come first, about 50/50. I'm hoping for the train

It wasn't too long ago Larkin was singing his praises of brainstorming and how valuable the people who will propose extreme ideas were. When he hears about someone else running a new idea up a flagpole to see who salutes he has to ridicule it.

It didn't sound like ridicule, exactly. It's a pretty old idea I think.
Only really feasible with "room temperature" superconductors given the
size the thing would have to be to store appreciable energy to make it
worth the time, but all sorts of wild stuff would be possible with a
ductile, machinable room-temperature superconducting material it'd be
one of the greatest discoveries in engineering/materials science
history, surely.

> Will the maglev train be in a tunnel? Hopefully it will be more comfortable than a plane.

I would expect, even the parts on land would be in a vacuum tunnel of
some kind. To be competitive with air travel times.

The economic advantage would be the enormous number of people a single
train could haul, four trains or so each way per day hauling several
thousand people each would cover pretty much the entire current
transatlantic NYC - London air travel demand

 

[bitrex]

On 6/22/19 2:39 AM, bitrex wrote:

On 6/22/19 2:20 AM, Rick C wrote:
On Saturday, June 22, 2019 at 2:16:05 AM UTC-4, Rodney Pont wrote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Rick C wrote:

Will the maglev train be in a tunnel?  Hopefully it will be more
comfortable than a plane.

There was a plan to put it in a submerged but near the surface tunnel
across the atlantic and pump the atmosphere out. Expected speed was
18,000 miles per hour but it would take the whole of the planets
production of steel for a year to accomplish. This was well before
Musks hyperloop idea.

I wonder how you would keep it from floating?


18,000 mph is an impossible speed there's not enough distance to
accelerate and slow down gently enough, making your passengers pull 5 Gs
like an astronaut on launch is bad for ticket sales!

1000 - 2000 mph is fine

at the top end of that range, even, acceleration and deceleration would
have to be carefully managed with tilting seats or something to keep
your passengers from puking