new GaN fet...

[John Larkin]

https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?

It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Phil Hobbs wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

BTW: they\'re specifying the output power at *3 dB compression*. Who
ever heard of that?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?

BTW EPC has a very interesting report on reliability vs. gate drive for
their GaN FET parts. You really really don\'t want to exceed 8V.

<https://epc-co.com/epc/DesignSupport/eGaNFETReliability/ReliabilityReportPhase14.aspx>

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:51:58 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


BTW EPC has a very interesting report on reliability vs. gate drive for
their GaN FET parts. You really really don\'t want to exceed 8V.

https://epc-co.com/epc/DesignSupport/eGaNFETReliability/ReliabilityReportPhase14.aspx

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I took some data on EPC gate degradation vs time, when biased above +5
volts. In my tests, high gate voltage caused increased gate leakage
over hours or days, but the parts still worked.

High drain voltages have a soft leakage that\'s not destructive if the
current is limited.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Joe Gwinn]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

BTW: they\'re specifying the output power at *3 dB compression*. Who
ever heard of that?

It\'s very common in RF power amplifiers, often the final amplifier in
a radio transmitter, striking a balance between linearity and output
power capability. One also sees 1 dB compression.

Joe Gwinn

 

[John Larkin]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:37:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

I like that package. The EPC BGAs are a pain and can\'t get heat out.

I\'ll try to get pricing and samples.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

BTW: they\'re specifying the output power at *3 dB compression*. Who
ever heard of that?

It\'s very common in RF power amplifiers, often the final amplifier in
a radio transmitter, striking a balance between linearity and output
power capability. One also sees 1 dB compression.

Joe Gwinn

1 dB I know about. But 3 dB, really?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 3/3/22 11:15 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?


It does specify the threshold as -1.5 to -3.5V, but doesn\'t give the
corresponding I_D.

Nice package--wonder if it comes in DIP?

(Almost certainly way too rich for my blood, if it\'s intended for cell
tower use, but an interesting part, for sure.)

BTW: they\'re specifying the output power at *3 dB compression*. Who
ever heard of that?

It\'s very common in RF power amplifiers, often the final amplifier in
a radio transmitter, striking a balance between linearity and output
power capability. One also sees 1 dB compression.

P1db is more common, but less relevant in a pulse application.
The data sheet introduction does say they can sustain linear operation,
but these devices seem to be specified mainly for pulse applications
like radar, c.f. the quiescent drain current of 15mA. No way you\'re
gonna build a linear amp with such a low drain current.

CH

 

[Rich S]

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:49:03 AM UTC, Clifford Heath wrote:

On 3/3/22 11:15 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

 

[server]

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
<richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:49:03 AM UTC, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 3/3/22 11:15 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 03.03.22 um 05:54 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Don\'t mke me laugh so hard. Spice IS the dark ages.
What we need is AWR or ADS design kits.

Gerhard

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Mar 2022 13:47:42 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<m9pv1h14dnn607t97es8530mg8mo787ijt@4ax.com>:

https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?

Yes
I sort of like the datasheet
Notation like 2.2-j2.3 shows capacitance effect etc.
?

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Mar 2022 20:54:28 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<0fi02hpt58odbjru88is7fpa4amta15lml@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:49:03 AM UTC, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 3/3/22 11:15 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Those are just illusions, BUILD the circuit and test!

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:

Am 03.03.22 um 05:54 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Don\'t mke me laugh so hard. Spice IS the dark ages.
What we need is AWR or ADS design kits.

Gerhard

\"Stop, you\'re both right.\"

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(former RF guy)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[server]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 06:32:58 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:

Am 03.03.22 um 05:54 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Don\'t mke me laugh so hard. Spice IS the dark ages.
What we need is AWR or ADS design kits.

Gerhard

What\'s wrong with knowing all the voltages and currents as a function
of time?

If you know that, you know all the RF stuff. That doesn\'t work in
reverse.

And what\'s wrong with knowing drain current as a function of gate
voltage? RF data sheets usually say \"turn the trimpot until the RF
comes out.\"

I wonder how people generate those \"design kits\" if they don\'t know
the basic electrical properties of the part. Maybe it\'s like \"load
pull\" engineering.







--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[server]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:51:12 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Mar 2022 20:54:28 -0800) it happened
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
0fi02hpt58odbjru88is7fpa4amta15lml@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 12:49:03 AM UTC, Clifford Heath wrote:
On 3/3/22 11:15 am, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 18:41:23 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Phil Hobbs wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Those are just illusions, BUILD the circuit and test!

I like to Spice things to prepare my instincts, and get close to a
working circuit. Less soldering. That blows up fewer expensive parts
too.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[server]

On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:47:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 02 Mar 2022 13:47:42 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
m9pv1h14dnn607t97es8530mg8mo787ijt@4ax.com>:

https://www.galliumsemi.com/products-1/gt010d

This being an RF part, there are no DC or capacitance specs. This
being a power part, there are no S-parms. All you get are load pull.

I suspect it\'s a depletion fet. Idss? What\'s that?

Yes
I sort of like the datasheet

I don\'t! The part is supposedly untuned, but the few impedances are
specified from 3400 to 3800 MHz. Strange.

Notation like 2.2-j2.3 shows capacitance effect etc.
?

At a single frequency and bias condition, in a power amp. A Spice
model would include the nonlinear capacitances and the inductances,
which might matter for RF. They sure matter in wideband time domain.

They might sell more parts if they considered a wider range of use
than a power amp over one small band.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye

 

[Phil Hobbs]

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 06:32:58 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 03.03.22 um 05:54 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Don\'t mke me laugh so hard. Spice IS the dark ages.
What we need is AWR or ADS design kits.

Gerhard

What\'s wrong with knowing all the voltages and currents as a function
of time?

If you know that, you know all the RF stuff. That doesn\'t work in
reverse.

And what\'s wrong with knowing drain current as a function of gate
voltage? RF data sheets usually say \"turn the trimpot until the RF
comes out.\"

I wonder how people generate those \"design kits\" if they don\'t know
the basic electrical properties of the part. Maybe it\'s like \"load
pull\" engineering.

They probably make about eight of them over the lifetime of the part, so
statistics are hard to come by.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[server]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 11:12:30 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 06:32:58 +0100, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de
wrote:

Am 03.03.22 um 05:54 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Rich S
richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

Those loadpull charts on page 5 are a mess,
unreadable, If this is what its like, then
No wonder a lot of RF guys retire unexpectedly.

RF lives in the dark ages. We need Spice models.

Don\'t mke me laugh so hard. Spice IS the dark ages.
What we need is AWR or ADS design kits.

Gerhard

What\'s wrong with knowing all the voltages and currents as a function
of time?

If you know that, you know all the RF stuff. That doesn\'t work in
reverse.

And what\'s wrong with knowing drain current as a function of gate
voltage? RF data sheets usually say \"turn the trimpot until the RF
comes out.\"

I wonder how people generate those \"design kits\" if they don\'t know
the basic electrical properties of the part. Maybe it\'s like \"load
pull\" engineering.


They probably make about eight of them over the lifetime of the part, so
statistics are hard to come by.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Rf is a strange world. I think its traditions pre-date computers, so
they emphasize analytical, necessarily linear, ideas like s-params and
Smith charts. Things that could be sort-of handled with pencils and
slide rules.

The nonlinear stuff became load-pull, basically documenting a few
bench tests.

The EPC GaN fets have Spice models and LT Spice examples, probably
because the intended market is switching power supplies.

The Cree SiC fets have Spice models, for the same reason.



--

I yam what I yam - Popeye