Need a sound recorder, what should I get?

[Michael A. Terrell]

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <macy@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.


Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.


Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282>

Here is the owner's manual:

<http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282>

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for the URLs.

I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.

The sound meter has an output jack after the preamp to let you either
record the signal being measured, or to look at it on a scope. Other
than the plastic nose piece and yellow knob, it looks quite a bit like
my 20+ year old Radio Shack meter.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 11, 10:15 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.  

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.



Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Excellent information, thank you.

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for the URLs.

I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.

 

[b]

On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant"  no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation.  That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried
a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know ,
be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the
landlord about it?
If so, what was their response(s)?
usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the
right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and geting
into legal action.
Just my .02 worth

-B

 

[Mark Zenier]

In article <5ce869bd-d2d4-4eb5-a6bb-088e9a1a75f2@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Robert Macy <macy@california.com> wrote:

Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

Higher end digital sound recorders seem to not be a Buy More/office
supply/Radio Shack type item. But I've seen them in the local electric
guitar store's flyers. A bit pricier than the Sony, $150-$300 and
more. Also probably a good place to get a better than average quality
microphone. (Also, there's probably a store or two in any major metro
area that specializes in pro and semi-pro video production equipment,
maybe even rentals).

Or maybe Radio Shack still sells their sound level meter,
(or Frys, or one of the mail order electronic instrument outfits).
Combine that with a video record what it sounds like during
of the events.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

 

[PeterD]

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:33:34 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<macy@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 5:08 am, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy

m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

We have our TV on while this is going on, that makes a great reference
and/or talking and living normally as a comparison.

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. That's why we moved in.

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

Then what are you doing here? You are asking how to take action, and
saying you don't think it is necessary. I'm confused.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

Is that in the lease? Padwan, you have a lot to learn in this life.

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 11, 4:19 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant"  no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation.  That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried
 a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know ,
be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the
landlord about it?
If so, what was their response(s)?
usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the
right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and  geting
into legal action.
Just my .02 worth

-B

Appreciate your approach, but all that has been already exhausted.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

   A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would.  One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

There is a little information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 12, 11:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

   A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would.  One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

   There is a little information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Excellent site!

That verifies the C-weighted curve extends flat to lower frequencies.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 11:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

There is a little information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Excellent site!

That verifies the C-weighted curve extends flat to lower frequencies.

Good luck 'Squelching' them. ;-)


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for this URL !!!

Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product.

The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If
it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart
recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending
tenant.

VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements:

TV, set at our normal listening level = 56
TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58
Conversation above TV = 60 to 62
Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62
Water faucet full output = 66
Bathroom exhaust fan = 68
Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our
claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective
impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds.

 

[Adrian Tuddenham]

Robert Macy <macy@california.com> wrote:

[...]

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

Hells bells! Have you spoken to the other tenants about this?

Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the
immediate neighbours.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for this URL !!!

You're welcome.

Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product.

The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If
it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart
recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending
tenant.

VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements:

TV, set at our normal listening level = 56
TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58
Conversation above TV = 60 to 62
Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62
Water faucet full output = 66
Bathroom exhaust fan = 68
Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our
claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective
impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 26, 11:48 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

[...]

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am.  You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

Hells bells!  Have you spoken to the other tenants about this?

Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the
immediate neighbours.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Actually, no one else is greatly affected. Flats are 'sound proofed'
causing sound to only go vertically. Thus from top floor down into
our flat. Absolutely barely hear anything in the hallway outside
origin flat.

Sometimes the tenants below us have pounded on their ceiling (our
floor), evidently thinking it's coming from us. And, that really
catches us in the middle.

According to management, no one else has complained. But that always
strikes me like a customer service complaint response, "No one else
has that problem." ...ok

I did find a tenant adjacent to the offending flat that claimed to
hear, and properly characterize the origin, "sounds like throwing a
ball around the room" and promise to call management, but weasels is
weasels, it never happened. In spite of 3 requests and 3 promises to
complain.

Talk about serrendipitous timing. Just today caught part of a Korean
TV KBS show called 3 Days. In the segment I caught, a Sr. Program
Director corrects a rooky PD who is editing a piece to be shown later
that night. The rooky PD had used the phrase "irritating deciBel
level" and the Sr PD corrected him saying, "That's confusing. Be
specific. Just, say 70 deciBels." They think 70 dB is irritating! We
get hit with over 72 to 74 dB from the tenant above!

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't
availible. It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the
local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock.
Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

 

[Robert Macy]

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

 

[Robert Macy]

On Apr 8, 12:16 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't
availible.  It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the
local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock.
Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

I'll check later. I was surprised at the $14+ price. I can't even
get boxes w battery compartments, let alone knobs, switches, panel
meters, etc for those kinds of prices.

But, everything from Cen-Tech looked extremely low priced, like
everything is discontinued.

Examples, laser level for $49, non-contact thermometers for $22 etc