N. Cook

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 8:51:25 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

dansabr...@yahoo.com wrote:


** Not the point.

Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is normally too expensive or impossible to do.

You do what you have to do to live Phil. A lot of the boards I work on are for consumer level TV, and with the price erosion of the last few years, I can't afford to pay more for a board than a customer is willing to spend in total for a repair. I can replace an AS15F gamma IC on an LCD TCON board in 10 minutes tops, and you'd have to look *very* carefully to see that it was replaced. I buy them 50 at a shot out of China for less than 0.50 each.

There are some boards that defy repair and those need to be replaced, but they are usually a break even deal at best, so we do whatever we can to avoid replacements.

In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no help at all.

.... Phil

True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help. But we adapt by utilizing the datasheets for the ICs on the boards. Fortunately, manufacturers no longer deface ICs and/or put house numbers on them, so using the "typical" circuit topology provided by the chip maker goes a long way in replacing the missing schematic.

Every main board that has a 25 series eeprom gets the .bin file removed, read, and stored on my computer (and backed up to half a dozen flash drives). A lot of main boards just have corrupted firmware, and I can pull an eeprom, reprogram it, and get it back on the board in 10 minutes.

I love getting guitar amps in because the guys want them back right away and don't care a lot about cost. It's nice to work on parts that I don't need to wear opti-visors to repair.

I do the occasional "antique" tube radio because it's a lot of fun to bring these old timers back to life.

 

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-----------------------

** Not the point.

Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is
normally too expensive or impossible to do.


You do what you have to do to live Phil.

In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
help at all.


True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.

** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.

What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.

Cos it is completely uneconomic.



..... Phil

 

"Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier than
searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial numbers. "

Even better, put the last four digits of the SN on the receipt which they must bring in to get warranty service. In some cases it is on a sticker, in which case you can etch it into something inside the cabinet.

 

[John Robertson]

On 2017/05/12 2:15 PM, Ian Field wrote:

"John Robertson" <spam@flippers.com> wrote in message
news:8JmdnQ-1f5pdvovEnZ2dnUU7-fHNnZ2d@giganews.com...
On 2017/05/12 10:47 AM, Ian Field wrote:


"Phil Allison" <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0402dda5-23f5-411d-89a3-13b754a3aa43@googlegroups.com...
Ian Field wrote:

----------------


I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for
customers
to present entirely different items as returns.



** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.

Plus recent repair work is generally visible.

Recent repair work could've been done elsewhere - warranty repairs for
items someone else fucked up is the oldest trick in the book.

Taking the back off and look if I signed and dated it is *MUCH* easier
than searching through a notebook of longer than phone number serial
numbers.

We have a sticker we put on our customers' boards - it has the shop
name, URL, and work order number (that # is added by pen along with
quantity of boards 1/x, 2/x...x/x).

The sticker serves two purposes - helps us track board repairs when/if
it comes back or customer has trouble, and it is advertising for the
shop - that pays off big time as people buy and sell games all over
the place and I keep getting notes from folks saying something like "I
saw your sticker on a game I just bought - do you service or sell XYZ?"

As far as possible, I avoided dealing with Joe public.

Different market. My shop fixes coin operated amusement machines, hourly
rate is good, and people appreciate us as we are one ot he few
professional shops around that deals with these games.

My customers were small local businesses and recommendations kept me
busy enough.

Other than our customers are mostly private we seem to get a lot of
referrals.

Some of them turned up with a van load at a time.

We keep a wait list (285 folks on the list = bigger shop needed, so
moving this week and next, and have to hire more people) - too many jobs!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

 

You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?



...... Phil

I don't think too rare. Much of my repair work is SMD components.

Your not going to find too many through-hole components in professional video cameras these days...

The same goes for high end touring gear as well. While there are "standard" components, much is SMD these days.

Dan

 

[Gareth Magennis]

wrote in message
news:724d6cf4-bedf-42a5-ba38-3ed1b57b3d89@googlegroups.com...

You do realise how rare it is for repairers to do SMD work ?



...... Phil

I don't think too rare. Much of my repair work is SMD components.

Your not going to find too many through-hole components in professional
video cameras these days...

The same goes for high end touring gear as well. While there are "standard"
components, much is SMD these days.

Dan



**********************************************************************************************



I am increasingly finding my work turning from linear PSU's and through hole
components, to SMPS and SMD.
This is mostly MI and Pro Audio.


So, you adapt or die.
I now have a hot air station and a microscope.

I regularly replace SMD op-amps, multi pin flatpack USB and firewire IC's,
and keep coming across new SMPS controllers.
With these, you can just download the datasheet, which usually gives you an
advisory circuit on it's use, which is very often pretty much what the
manufacturer used for his design.

Agreed, there is NO support from ANYTHING coming out of China. No parts,
nothing.


I struggled at first with all this, but actually quite like a challenge, and
learning new things.
And I have learnt a lot.



I would suggest anyone needing to make the leap from old school to current
school check out Louis Rossmann videos on Youtube.
He mostly repairs Apple laptops, all SMD.
You don't have to like him, or his methods, but watch his videos and you
will learn some skills you can adapt and put into good practice in your own
world.


I have.




Gareth.

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 12/05/2017 10:52 AM, Phil Allison wrote:

Ian Field wrote:

----------------


I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for customers
to present entirely different items as returns.



** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.

Plus recent repair work is generally visible.

**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Ian Field]

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:enp6gkF3g21U1@mid.individual.net...

On 12/05/2017 10:52 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
Ian Field wrote:

----------------


I found that signing and dating my repairs made it difficult for
customers
to present entirely different items as returns.



** Recording serial numbers is the usual precaution against that one.

Plus recent repair work is generally visible.


**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair. I
was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial numbers
failed to match. Arsehole.

One of the shops I narrowly avoided doing business with allegedly sent a
printer under warranty back to Epson - when they took it apart, they found
that serial numbers on individual parts were allocated to over a dozen
different printers.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <ncJRA.45721$tm3.24604@fx37.am4>,
soundserviceleeds@outlook.com says...

I would suggest anyone needing to make the leap from old school to current
school check out Louis Rossmann videos on Youtube.
He mostly repairs Apple laptops, all SMD.
You don't have to like him, or his methods, but watch his videos and you
will learn some skills you can adapt and put into good practice in your own
world.

I am retired and never worked with the SMD. I watched many of the
Rossmann youtubes to learn about how to work with the SMD. If you don't
mind his tlk, he gives some very good ideas and teaching about them. I
bought one of the microscopes he recommended and an inexpensive hot air
and soldering iron station for about $ 65. While I don't think it would
hold up under much usage, it works well for hobby usage. If I was using
the tools to make any money with, I would buy a better hot air station.

There are several other good videos on youtube that show how to work
with the smd. I think there is a woman named Jessica that does a lot of
them.

I really like working with the smd better than the through hole devices
once I find the problem. Found the kapton tape to keep the hot air off
parts that are close in works well. It just takes the correct tools to
make it easy to work with.

 

[Gareth Magennis]

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
news:MPG.338136ccf4b7806e9898fe@news.east.earthlink.net...

In article <ncJRA.45721$tm3.24604@fx37.am4>,
soundserviceleeds@outlook.com says...

I would suggest anyone needing to make the leap from old school to current
school check out Louis Rossmann videos on Youtube.
He mostly repairs Apple laptops, all SMD.
You don't have to like him, or his methods, but watch his videos and you
will learn some skills you can adapt and put into good practice in your
own
world.

I am retired and never worked with the SMD. I watched many of the
Rossmann youtubes to learn about how to work with the SMD. If you don't
mind his tlk, he gives some very good ideas and teaching about them. I
bought one of the microscopes he recommended and an inexpensive hot air
and soldering iron station for about $ 65. While I don't think it would
hold up under much usage, it works well for hobby usage. If I was using
the tools to make any money with, I would buy a better hot air station.

There are several other good videos on youtube that show how to work
with the smd. I think there is a woman named Jessica that does a lot of
them.

I really like working with the smd better than the through hole devices
once I find the problem. Found the kapton tape to keep the hot air off
parts that are close in works well. It just takes the correct tools to
make it easy to work with.



***********************************************************



Yep, once you learn what you need to do the job, then you can start to do
the jobs, properly.




Gareth.

 

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 10:38:26 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-----------------------


** Not the point.

Faulty SMD boards are replaced, not repaired, cos the latter is
normally too expensive or impossible to do.


You do what you have to do to live Phil.





In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
help at all.


True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.


** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.

I don't know what you're working on, but there is *rarely* an IC that can't be bought on Aliexpress. I also buy LED chips for flat TVs a thousand at a shot for $20. Sometimes it takes a bit of time to identify these parts but they are available, and manufacturers no longer remove the OEM's number and replace it with a house number (fortunately).


> What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.

I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?

Cos it is completely uneconomic.

Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over here is to replace at the smd component level. It is the *only* economic way to repair over here.

 

>"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that. And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public relations, they would have never made it stick because the "elements of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to criticize him about without making shit up. Every college in this country should be sued. Look for a video called "The College Conspiracy".

But when they pull that shit it is out and out fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it. "Look, this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit with that serial number on it in this shop it is yours". In fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.

And when the crook shows up tell him "Go ahead and call the law MF"

 

[Gareth Magennis]

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this
case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it. "Look,
this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit with that
serial number on it in this shop it is yours".







In fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and
put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.

****************************************************************************************************************



Well that would be fraud then.

No wonder people hate you kind of people.



Gareth.

 

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 23:05:55 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that. And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public relations, they would have never made it stick because the "elements of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to criticize him about without making shit up. Every college in this country should be sued. Look for a video called "The College Conspiracy".

But when they pull that shit it is out and out fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it. "Look, this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a unit with that serial number on it in this shop it is yours". In fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial number and put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is going on.

And when the crook shows up tell him "Go ahead and call the law MF"

Then you lose the customer. Sometimes that's ok, sometimes not. I'd either return it and say it's not the unit repaired, they must have picked up the wrong one by mistake. Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid.


NT

 

On Saturday, May 13, 2017 at 7:25:42 PM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:

No wonder people hate you kind of people.



Gareth.

I've been reading Jeff's posts for over 20 years on and off on this group, and although I've never met him, I can promise you that he was just spitballing. I've often fantasized about diabolical things I could do to deserving customers, but of course never did. Sometimes the fantasy has to be enough..

 

[rickman]

On 5/13/2017 6:05 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:

"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

You are such a bull artist. "Lock and load" That's a laugh if I ever
heard one.

--

Rick C

 

[Trevor Wilson]

On 14/05/2017 9:52 AM, tabbypurr@gmail.com wrote:

On Saturday, 13 May 2017 23:05:55 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was
duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical
repair. I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the
serial numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "

I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load, but
in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with
fraud.

People think Trump U committed fraud but if that's the case all
colleges do it, especially liberal arts, art history and all that.
And making you take all kinds of irrelevant courses for shit you'll
never use. Trumpp gioving the money back was just good public
relations, they would have never made it stick because the
"elements of the crime" simply were not there. There is enough to
criticize him about without making shit up. Every college in this
country should be sued. Look for a video called "The College
Conspiracy".

But when they pull that shit it is out and out fraud.

Either that or I would just keep the unit and say I don't have it.
"Look, this is the serial number of your unit, if you can find a
unit with that serial number on it in this shop it is yours". In
fact I would write a ticket for the unit with the "new" serial
number and put someone's name on it I knew and tell them what is
going on.

And when the crook shows up tell him "Go ahead and call the law
MF"

Then you lose the customer. Sometimes that's ok, sometimes not. I'd
either return it and say it's not the unit repaired, they must have
picked up the wrong one by mistake.

**Which is precisely my approach. I knew and I am certain the customer
knew what he was doing. I simply provided a way he could avoid being
labelled a criminal. That way I could continue to do business with him.

Or repair it and not hand it over
> until the repair bill was paid.

**That is a given, unless the client is a very good one.



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

 

[Phil Allison]

ohg...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

In the real world, the manufacturer is in China and supplies no
help at all.


True. No schematics, no .bin files, no help.


** And crucially no spare ICs are sold, only whole PCBs.

I don't know what you're working on, but there is *rarely* an IC
that can't be bought on Aliexpress.

** There are massive numbers of them that cannot.

All the older stuff and anything programed for starters.

I do not service TVs.

What YOU claim YOU sometimes do is unheard of in this country.

I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?

** Cut out he smartarse crap.

Cos it is completely uneconomic.


Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over
here is to replace at the smd component level.

** Which, like I say, nobody here does and darn few elsewhere.




..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

jurb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

"**Yup. I had a guy who brought in an NAD amp for service. It was duly
fixed. He brought it back 2 weeks later for an almost identical repair.
I was surprised, so I checked my records and noted that the serial
numbers failed to match. Arsehole. "


I know I said I almost never call the police, I lock and load,
but in this case I would have called the law and had him charged with fraud.

** Not even faintly possible.

The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced.


..... Phil

 

[Clifford Heath]

On 14/05/17 07:35, ohger1s@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 10:38:26 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:
I can't speak for anything in Australia, but I assume China ships to Oz, no?
Cos it is completely uneconomic.
Can't speak for your country, but the only way we make money over here is to replace at the smd component level. It is the *only* economic way to repair over here.

I'm curious now - where is "over here"?.

I'm guessing your average wage is under $5/hour.