MiniCircuits kits...

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
<ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.

MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.

Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?
LOL and you cannot even spice <do you have a spice model for these?> it!
Seems all a bit .well not snake oil, those thing will work, but
lemme say \"strange target audience...\"

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.

Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.

Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?


No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram

Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

Jeroen Belleman

 

[Phil Hobbs]

John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:41:05 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John
Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened
John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic
problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for
components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission
lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used
with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can
be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

Jeroen Belleman

They make it fast and fix up the impulse response afterwards.
Interleaving many ADCs always makes a huge mess.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Given unlimited DSP resources, the analog design needs bandwidth but
can be arbitrarily hideous. That changes ones\' design approach
entirely.

Deconvolution!

Arbitrarily hideous, except that it needs to be LTI (within the sampling
approximation of course). Slew limiting and suchlike will lose information.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?

 

[John S]

On 11/12/2022 10:37 AM, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 05:35:50 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 07:53:04 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highlandSNIPMEtechnology.com> wrote in
g0rsmh5vkni0h712uvc36tm1lvpnbro3nd@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:27:42 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:14:56 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkllcv$1juo$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 13:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Well twist all the way you want, you said:
it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz bandwidths

Bit decent analog (call it \'vintage if you like) scope vertical amps do that WITHOUT silly secret blocks
and with discrete components, most of those still available today.

Vertical amps now just feed an ADC. They don\'t need to drive a delay
line and swing a hundred volts into deflection plates.

The last-gen Tek analog scopes were full of full-custom ICs in the
vertical path. Both of Jim Williams\' analog circuit design books have
chapters about Tek scope amps.

I can lift my 500 MHz 4-channel color storage scope with one hand, and
it barely runs warm. It does pretrigger display, signal averaging,
measurements, FFTs, and I haven\'t replaced a tube yet.


I remember in the early seventies \'Elektuur\' (think it is \'Elector\' now) published the V amp for a 300 MHz Tek
analog scope, it used BFY90 IIRC, I immediately went to work and build it, to drive my 300 MHz East German CRT,,,
Much later when I worked for Tek I met the guy who gave Elektuur that circuit, he got quite a bit of head wind
he told me because he published that circuit...
BFY90 is still available (ebay)... 42 years later,,,
There are many faster transistors now, same circuits should work,
Have a good look at those old circuits!

Opamps and mosfets would be great for a CRT-based scope, but it would
need an expensive distributed-deflection CRT to get the bandwidth of a
cheap modern digital scope.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/evoq6p2nvzyl6wo/547_crt.JPG?raw=1

I really don\'t miss tube scopes at all. Barbaric.

I love my 11802 sampler, but it\'s a digital scope with a CRT display,
in fact magnetic deflection vertical raster scan.

Oh I agree with you, but then..
I still have - and use my old Trio / Kenwood 10 MHz dual channel scope.
Bought it in about 1979... Was the tool in my repair shop for many years..
Now there is quality,, Do not need more as these days a simple RTL_SDR stick
used as spectrum analyzer gives me all I need including GPS frequencies.. .1.6 GHz is my sticks limit
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xpsa/index.html
but have a down-converter for 2.4 GHz etc...
But for fun sure you can integrate anything
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/
and use software...
You are more of a pulse - watcher right?

Mostly pulses, but some low-level analog and of course a lot of power
supplies for everything. Low jitter pulse generation is essentially an
analog design problem. Electro-optics is mostly analog too.

Signal averaging is wonderful, especially in a high EMI location like
ours. Color storage is great; when I get a nice waveform I can freeze
it, add a post-it note, and take a picture.

well if it is repetitive it is just RF and you can monitor the spectrum,

And then, cars cannot be sold as the chips are not available,
same for other chips needing stuff...

We need GHz PCs now to read f*cking Microsoft email...

And you have to keep relearning the interface and working around the
ever-changing bugs.

They seem to have just fixed the email search/drag/drop bug after
about 5 years. In another 5 maybe they will fix the
typing-where-I-dont-want-to-type bug.


(Godaddy, my website hosting company) moved to Microsoft mail, no more pop email!

We used to use pop and Thunderbird, and someone moved us to Outlook
webmail. It\'s awful. But having the same stuff from multiple PCs is
good.


I have terminated auto-renewal so the site will move elsewhere around February,
that is if the Internet still exists (chips, nukes, politics).
Is is now more difficult to read messages than when I was online with a 75/300 Bd modem.
So where will it go?
Best to have some transistors around to do things, maybe even tubes...
Lots is now hype, sort of expect a big setback, human made climate change hype is like witch hunt was in medieval times,,,
Selling bloated software is the business way...

Will archaeologists dig up our cellphones and wonder \'hoe did they ever do that in the 21 first century?
Or some alien species lands here and looks at what we left behind.. While the mosquitos remained...


Life will be interesting 1000 years from now. And 10,000.
[/quote]

What Jan needs is a time machine to go back and enjoy working in the
electronics so important to him.

--
Dogs make me happy. Humans make my head hurt.

 

[Jeroen Belleman]

On 2022-11-11 13:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?

We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Jeroen Belleman

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 05:56:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.

MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.

Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

In the days of discrete design, there were multiple sources for
pretty-similar 2N2219. There are no multiple sources for FPGAs and uPs
and complex parts like that.

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?
LOL and you cannot even spice <do you have a spice model for these?> it!

MiniCircuits is adamant that they will NEVER have Spice models for
their parts. Since we work in time domain, we measure things that are
not specified and hack our own models. Not complete models, but good
enough for what we are doing.

I build instant-start Colpitts oscillators with the SAV551 phemt. They
behaved very badly until I put a 499 ohm (not a typo) resistor in
series with the gate. Guess we didn\'t model the wire bonds right.

Seems all a bit .well not snake oil, those thing will work, but
lemme say \"strange target audience...\"

Lunatic fringe electronics is fun.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.

Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?


No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

MiniCircuits has fabulous MMIC amplifiers. GHz bw, simple, and would
be a bargain at 10 times their price. And when they say
\"unconditionally stable\" they mean it.

But the data sheets are full of silly things like s-parameters, and
are vague about biasing.

 

[Jan Panteltje]

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:14:56 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkllcv$1juo$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 13:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Well twist all the way you want, you said:
it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz bandwidths

Bit decent analog (call it \'vintage if you like) scope vertical amps do that WITHOUT silly secret blocks
and with discrete components, most of those still available today.

I remember in the early seventies \'Elektuur\' (think it is \'Elector\' now) published the V amp for a 300 MHz Tek
analog scope, it used BFY90 IIRC, I immediately went to work and build it, to drive my 300 MHz East German CRT,,,
Much later when I worked for Tek I met the guy who gave Elektuur that circuit, he got quite a bit of head wind
he told me because he published that circuit...
BFY90 is still available (ebay)... 42 years later,,,
There are many faster transistors now, same circuits should work,
Have a good look at those old circuits!

 

[Mike Monett VE3BTI]

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Jeroen Belleman

Phil pointed out Jan\'s only point is to cause confusion and outrage, then to
run away laughing.

He rarely offers information useful to the group. I PLONKED him long ago.

Modern wideband oscilloscopes do not use Y-axis amplifiers. They break the
signal down into multiple bands and use fast samplers and A/D converters. For
example, HP\'s 110GHz scope is illustrated here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXYje2B04xE



--
MRM

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:27:42 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:14:56 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkllcv$1juo$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 13:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B
It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Well twist all the way you want, you said:
it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz bandwidths

Bit decent analog (call it \'vintage if you like) scope vertical amps do that WITHOUT silly secret blocks
and with discrete components, most of those still available today.

Vertical amps now just feed an ADC. They don\'t need to drive a delay
line and swing a hundred volts into deflection plates.

The last-gen Tek analog scopes were full of full-custom ICs in the
vertical path. Both of Jim Williams\' analog circuit design books have
chapters about Tek scope amps.

I can lift my 500 MHz 4-channel color storage scope with one hand, and
it barely runs warm. It does pretrigger display, signal averaging,
measurements, FFTs, and I haven\'t replaced a tube yet.

I remember in the early seventies \'Elektuur\' (think it is \'Elector\' now) published the V amp for a 300 MHz Tek
analog scope, it used BFY90 IIRC, I immediately went to work and build it, to drive my 300 MHz East German CRT,,,
Much later when I worked for Tek I met the guy who gave Elektuur that circuit, he got quite a bit of head wind
he told me because he published that circuit...
BFY90 is still available (ebay)... 42 years later,,,
There are many faster transistors now, same circuits should work,
Have a good look at those old circuits!

Opamps and mosfets would be great for a CRT-based scope, but it would
need an expensive distributed-deflection CRT to get the bandwidth of a
cheap modern digital scope.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/evoq6p2nvzyl6wo/547_crt.JPG?raw=1

I really don\'t miss tube scopes at all. Barbaric.

I love my 11802 sampler, but it\'s a digital scope with a CRT display,
in fact magnetic deflection vertical raster scan.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 15:51:18 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett VE3BTI
<spamme@not.com> wrote:

Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Jeroen Belleman

Phil pointed out Jan\'s only point is to cause confusion and outrage, then to
run away laughing.

He rarely offers information useful to the group. I PLONKED him long ago.

Be nice.

Modern wideband oscilloscopes do not use Y-axis amplifiers. They break the
signal down into multiple bands and use fast samplers and A/D converters. For
example, HP\'s 110GHz scope is illustrated here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXYje2B04xE

That\'s a megabuck-class scope. Affordable scopes have a simple
wideband amp driving an ADC. The cheaper ones grossly overclock the
ADC, but it works.

 

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 11.11.22 um 15:50 schrieb John Larkin:

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100, Jeroen Belleman

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

MiniCircuits has fabulous MMIC amplifiers. GHz bw, simple, and would
be a bargain at 10 times their price. And when they say
\"unconditionally stable\" they mean it.

But the data sheets are full of silly things like s-parameters, and
are vague about biasing.

But they do not always say \"unconditionally stable\".
For example, the PGA103+ has negative input impedance below
100 MHz. there is an app note about it.

<
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/52492807839/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
>

Between Marker 2 and 3, S11 leaves the circle that goes through
0 and +inf. real Ohms. That means: you put some power into the
input, and even more power comes back. That means you get an
oscillator if you attach the right inductive source to the
oscillator. Thus the condition for stablility is: source must
be capacitive or there must be a resistive gate stopper
(> +1.0185 KOhms around 10 MHz), or a combination.

This is the workaround from the app note:

<
https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/52492044197/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/
>

It consists of a series tuned, damped RLC circuit in par
to the input. Now the S11 trace stays completely in the circle.
With that, the PGA103 won\'t oscillate no matter what you
connect to the input. Unconditional stability.

The curls around M1 is the 432 MHz SAW filter at the
output of the PGA103, shining backwards to the input SMA.

The 1 in the middle of the circle is 50 Ohms real, the 0.5
one tick left is 25 Ohms, the 2 to the right is 100 Ohms.
Above that line is inductive, below is capacitive.

The wool above 25 to 50 Ohms is probably a calibration
artefact. I did the cal with 401 points and the measurement
with 5001.

Cheers, Gerhard

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 22:51:56 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:41:05 -0500, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John
Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened
John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic
problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for
components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission
lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used
with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can
be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

Jeroen Belleman

They make it fast and fix up the impulse response afterwards.
Interleaving many ADCs always makes a huge mess.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Given unlimited DSP resources, the analog design needs bandwidth but
can be arbitrarily hideous. That changes ones\' design approach
entirely.

Deconvolution!


Assuming the SNR survives. For scopes, it generally does, to a
point--your average superfast scope has 6-7 ENOB anyway.

I just wish they\'d dork it into a Gaussian step response like an actual
_oscilloscope_, rather than the sorts of peaky overshooting messes I\'ve
seen in the last 15 years or so.

Yes. All of my modern scopes ring.

A sad day for me, from a technical POV, was when I had to explain to a
bunch of _Tektronix factory engineers_ that a scope lives and dies by
its step response.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened John
Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened
John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic
problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for
components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission
lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used
with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can
be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

Jeroen Belleman

They make it fast and fix up the impulse response afterwards.
Interleaving many ADCs always makes a huge mess.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

 

[Phil Hobbs]

Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2022-11-11 13:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 10:56:19 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl683$k9q$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

On 2022-11-11 09:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 09:14:16 +0100) it happened Jeroen
Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkl08o$394$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 11 Nov 2022 08:24:45 +0100) it happened
Jeroen Belleman
jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <tkktbt$v5s$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 13:07:11 -0800) it happened
John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
ntpqmhlvkuahf6tu96bhffdrv0ci4t6d9k@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:10:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje
pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 10 Nov 2022 09:49:15 -0800) it happened
John Larkin
jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
49eqmhpf0j56bojsvnh3frftvam9h3kg1l@4ax.com>:

They have some interesting stuff.

https://www.minicircuits.com/WebStore/dashboard.html?model=K1-SAV_TAV%2B

It will make you very depending on their products.
MiniCircuits has been pretty good. Parts lifetime is a chronic
problem
in our business.
Sure, but in my time we needed at least one second source for
components we used.
Mil would require that too over there?

An other thing that makes me wonder is the 50 Ohm issue
At 1 GHz the wavelength is 30 cm
If this was to sort of \'appeal to people to
just chaining blocks together on a PCB with 50 Ohm transmission
lines in between\'
then its silly.

In many of not most cases the parts can be more efficiently used
with a different coupling impedance
when a few mm apart even more so.
Then it is RC times or LC[R] coupling (thinking RF now) that can
be optimized.
Done it many times .
So who is it for, the RF clueless?

No, it\'s for broadband amplifiers, (near) constant gain over GHz
bandwidths.

Jeroen Belleman

Ever looked at the Y amplifiers of a modern GHz scope?

Not in detail, no. How do they do it?

Jeroen Belleman

Google tektronics circuit diagram


Lots of vintage circuits, which I *did* see before. Interesting, but not
modern. Can you be a more specific?

In those vintage circuits did you see any minicircuits like stuff?
Max frequency was?


We were talking about mini Circuits RF gain blocks, easy to throw
together. There\'s nothing silly about that. You brought up scope Y
amplifiers, which have a completely different purpose and a completely
different architecture. Now what was your point, exactly?

Jeroen Belleman

The main issue with most of MCL\'s packaged amps is that their gain rolls
off steadily. Put a few in series with no peaking networks, and the
results can be very disappointing.

I\'ve used RFBay for higher-performance things, with excellent results at
good prices.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com