Microwave Oven Layout...

[Rich S]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:14:42 PM UTC-4, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS

I\'m not looking for a microwave. I was just pondering the possibilities of layout variations. Which model is narrowest?

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Rich S]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS

here is a typical \"Small countertop\" model
PRICE $69.88 - $98.59
Galanz GLCMKA07BER-07
10 in. high , 18 in. wide, 14 in. deep
We have no reliability data on this brand
but it performed quite well for evenness and
(low) acoustical noise, but poor for speed (I
take that to mean low RF output power).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085JSK3JP

 

[Rich S]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:21:49 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS
here is a typical \"Small countertop\" model
PRICE $69.88 - $98.59
Galanz GLCMKA07BER-07
10 in. high , 18 in. wide, 14 in. deep
We have no reliability data on this brand
but it performed quite well for evenness and
(low) acoustical noise, but poor for speed (I
take that to mean low RF output power).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085JSK3JP

actually ALL the small countertops are poor
for speed : output power) so no differentiator
unless we step up to mid-size....

many Small are 10 x 17 x 13 (HWD), e.g.,

Magic Chef HMM770B
Midea MMC07S1AWW
Open Kitchen by Williams Sonoma Stainless-Steel Microwave
Black+Decker EM720CPN-P

but this one is bit shorter, only 9\" tall
Oster OGCMV207S2-07

 

[Ricky]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:28:49 PM UTC-4, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:21:49 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS
here is a typical \"Small countertop\" model
PRICE $69.88 - $98.59
Galanz GLCMKA07BER-07
10 in. high , 18 in. wide, 14 in. deep
We have no reliability data on this brand
but it performed quite well for evenness and
(low) acoustical noise, but poor for speed (I
take that to mean low RF output power).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085JSK3JP
actually ALL the small countertops are poor
for speed : output power) so no differentiator
unless we step up to mid-size....

many Small are 10 x 17 x 13 (HWD), e.g.,

Magic Chef HMM770B
Midea MMC07S1AWW
Open Kitchen by Williams Sonoma Stainless-Steel Microwave
Black+Decker EM720CPN-P

but this one is bit shorter, only 9\" tall
Oster OGCMV207S2-07

Someone else posted this one, Specifications
Height: 14-1/8”
Width: 15-3/8”
Depth: 13-3/4”

Seems intended for this purpose.
https://www.whirlpool.com/kitchen/cooking/microwaves/countertop/p.0.5-cu.-ft.-countertop-microwave-with-add-30-seconds-option.wmc20005yw.html

At almost $200 it seems I was right about vendors wanting a pretty penny for the convenience.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[bitrex]

On 7/10/2022 8:59 AM, Don Y wrote:

On 7/10/2022 5:46 AM, amdx wrote:
I haven\'t had a newer switching style microwave apart, but with the
older heavy transformer, that had to be set out side
the cooking area, along with the magnetron and control pcb, it just
seems reasonable to put the control panel in the
expanded area made for the other parts. Putting it on top would add
about 5\" to the height, also make it very top heavy,
instead having uneven weight distribution. Maybe it could all be put
underneath, I don\'t know enough to know if the magnetron
energy could efficiently guided up to where it needs to be, probably.
It might be niche need that a company could make a buck on,
but they don\'t seem to have made that happen.

You can find microwaves with the controls on right (most common, by a huge
factor), top (common in industrial settings), bottom (rare) and *left*
(rarer
still!)

There\'s little demand for \"tiny\" ovens as most folks are looking for
something
in which they can, at least, reheat a plate of leftovers.  And, with
convection
capabilities, \"turkeys\" are probably the high end of that size range.

[Having turned down an offer to design said controls for a firm
specializing in
that, many decades ago]

We do mostly stovetop cooking in my household so the +30 button tends to
be the most-used button and the rest rarely to never.

You could probably market a microwave oven with just that control to the
younger crowd, nobody under 30 uses the temperature probes or
auto-defrost or the \"Popcorn\" button (will only burn your popcorn) or
all that crap.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/10/2022 5:56 PM, bitrex wrote:

On 7/10/2022 8:59 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/10/2022 5:46 AM, amdx wrote:
I haven\'t had a newer switching style microwave apart, but with the older
heavy transformer, that had to be set out side
the cooking area, along with the magnetron and control pcb, it just seems
reasonable to put the control panel in the
expanded area made for the other parts. Putting it on top would add about 5\"
to the height, also make it very top heavy,
instead having uneven weight distribution. Maybe it could all be put
underneath, I don\'t know enough to know if the magnetron
energy could efficiently guided up to where it needs to be, probably. It
might be niche need that a company could make a buck on,
but they don\'t seem to have made that happen.

You can find microwaves with the controls on right (most common, by a huge
factor), top (common in industrial settings), bottom (rare) and *left* (rarer
still!)

There\'s little demand for \"tiny\" ovens as most folks are looking for something
in which they can, at least, reheat a plate of leftovers. And, with convection
capabilities, \"turkeys\" are probably the high end of that size range.

[Having turned down an offer to design said controls for a firm specializing in
that, many decades ago]

We do mostly stovetop cooking in my household so the +30 button tends to be the
most-used button and the rest rarely to never.

We use:
- beverage (to reheat tea/coffee)
- reheat (to heat/thaw frozen marinara/bolognese sauce)
- digits (to set timer)
- +30 (bump the time remaining, quick-heat tea, soften butter)
- CLOCK (to force ToD into the display when it is otherwise \"timing\")
- CLEAR (to discard remaining time on the timer)

You could probably market a microwave oven with just that control to the
younger crowd, nobody under 30 uses the temperature probes or auto-defrost or
the \"Popcorn\" button (will only burn your popcorn) or all that crap.

Popcorn is best made in hot oil (olive or sesame, despite low smoke point).
The \"specialty\" buttons (and \"modes\") primarily just adjust the power level
and/or duty cycle. But, only save labor if something will be *in* the
oven for a long time. It\'s rare the oven is \"on\" for more than a minute
at a time (though often used to TIME longer intervals).

[I think it takes 2.5 minutes to \"heat to serving temperature from frozen\"
a piece of meatloaf. A bit longer to defrost a pint of red sauce to serving
temperature...]

One surprise (that shouldn\'t have been!) I discovered was that increasing
a timer from 60 to 70 to 90 seconds behaves as expected. But, 90 to 100
can catch you off guard!

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 9:20:46 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:

On 7/10/2022 5:56 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/10/2022 8:59 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/10/2022 5:46 AM, amdx wrote:
I haven\'t had a newer switching style microwave apart, but with the older
heavy transformer, that had to be set out side
the cooking area, along with the magnetron and control pcb, it just seems
reasonable to put the control panel in the
expanded area made for the other parts. Putting it on top would add about 5\"
to the height, also make it very top heavy,
instead having uneven weight distribution. Maybe it could all be put
underneath, I don\'t know enough to know if the magnetron
energy could efficiently guided up to where it needs to be, probably. It
might be niche need that a company could make a buck on,
but they don\'t seem to have made that happen.

You can find microwaves with the controls on right (most common, by a huge
factor), top (common in industrial settings), bottom (rare) and *left* (rarer
still!)

There\'s little demand for \"tiny\" ovens as most folks are looking for something
in which they can, at least, reheat a plate of leftovers. And, with convection
capabilities, \"turkeys\" are probably the high end of that size range.

[Having turned down an offer to design said controls for a firm specializing in
that, many decades ago]

We do mostly stovetop cooking in my household so the +30 button tends to be the
most-used button and the rest rarely to never.
We use:
- beverage (to reheat tea/coffee)
- reheat (to heat/thaw frozen marinara/bolognese sauce)
- digits (to set timer)
- +30 (bump the time remaining, quick-heat tea, soften butter)
- CLOCK (to force ToD into the display when it is otherwise \"timing\")
- CLEAR (to discard remaining time on the timer)
You could probably market a microwave oven with just that control to the
younger crowd, nobody under 30 uses the temperature probes or auto-defrost or
the \"Popcorn\" button (will only burn your popcorn) or all that crap.
Popcorn is best made in hot oil (olive or sesame, despite low smoke point).
The \"specialty\" buttons (and \"modes\") primarily just adjust the power level
and/or duty cycle. But, only save labor if something will be *in* the
oven for a long time. It\'s rare the oven is \"on\" for more than a minute
at a time (though often used to TIME longer intervals).

[I think it takes 2.5 minutes to \"heat to serving temperature from frozen\"
a piece of meatloaf. A bit longer to defrost a pint of red sauce to serving
temperature...]

One surprise (that shouldn\'t have been!) I discovered was that increasing
a timer from 60 to 70 to 90 seconds behaves as expected. But, 90 to 100
can catch you off guard!

I\'m pretty sure they don\'t adjust power level, the magnetron is an on/off proposition. They do adjust duty cycle and total time. And the microwave computes total time based up your input. Defrost asks you for the weight to be defrosted, self-adjusts the total time, and hits it with a 33% duty, just as an example, and it works pretty well for just about everything. POTATO works pretty well for baking a medium size potato in about 8 minutes, but if it\'s a big one, you need to run it through twice. The user needs to be willing to play with and remember the performance. If they\'re dumb the oven is not going to be a convenience for them But I guess that\'s true of everything.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:39:44 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:28:49 PM UTC-4, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:21:49 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS
here is a typical \"Small countertop\" model
PRICE $69.88 - $98.59
Galanz GLCMKA07BER-07
10 in. high , 18 in. wide, 14 in. deep
We have no reliability data on this brand
but it performed quite well for evenness and
(low) acoustical noise, but poor for speed (I
take that to mean low RF output power).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085JSK3JP
actually ALL the small countertops are poor
for speed : output power) so no differentiator
unless we step up to mid-size....

many Small are 10 x 17 x 13 (HWD), e.g.,

Magic Chef HMM770B
Midea MMC07S1AWW
Open Kitchen by Williams Sonoma Stainless-Steel Microwave
Black+Decker EM720CPN-P

but this one is bit shorter, only 9\" tall
Oster OGCMV207S2-07
Someone else posted this one, Specifications
Height: 14-1/8”
Width: 15-3/8”
Depth: 13-3/4”

Seems intended for this purpose.
https://www.whirlpool.com/kitchen/cooking/microwaves/countertop/p.0.5-cu.-ft.-countertop-microwave-with-add-30-seconds-option.wmc20005yw.html

At almost $200 it seems I was right about vendors wanting a pretty penny for the convenience.

It\'s the economy of scale for the market. If the market is relatively small, the product is going to cost. As usual you\'re totally out to lunch.

--

Rick C.

+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 3:21:49 PM UTC-4, Rich S wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:14:42 PM UTC, Rich S wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 4:22:20 PM UTC, Ricky wrote:
On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 7:00:37 AM UTC-4, Malcolm Moore wrote:
On Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:17:56 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
Thirty years ago Mitsubishi had several models with the controls above
the door, so it is possible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rDhgAwdGUc
https://imgur.com/qQ22mNS&Wx8gnnV
Possibly not enough purchasers wanted to buy them so they deleted them
from their range.
That\'s exactly what I was thinking. Not only would it be more narrow, if used in the corner still, it would sit back further, wasting less space behind it in the corner.

Like most \"new ideas\", they probably wanted a premium price and small microwave are mostly budget units.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Rick, what size footprint are you looking for?
I can look it up in our ratings database, there
60+ current US models there.
FWIW, the range in dimensions are:
Height, 9 to 16\"
Width, 17 to 30\"
Depth, 13 to 26\"
regards, RS
here is a typical \"Small countertop\" model
PRICE $69.88 - $98.59
Galanz GLCMKA07BER-07
10 in. high , 18 in. wide, 14 in. deep
We have no reliability data on this brand
but it performed quite well for evenness and
(low) acoustical noise, but poor for speed (I
take that to mean low RF output power).
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085JSK3JP

That\'s not typical at all! It\'s an old fashioned weakling oven.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/10/2022 7:51 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Sunday, July 10, 2022 at 9:20:46 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 7/10/2022 5:56 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 7/10/2022 8:59 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/10/2022 5:46 AM, amdx wrote:
I haven\'t had a newer switching style microwave apart, but with the
older heavy transformer, that had to be set out side the cooking
area, along with the magnetron and control pcb, it just seems
reasonable to put the control panel in the expanded area made for
the other parts. Putting it on top would add about 5\" to the height,
also make it very top heavy, instead having uneven weight
distribution. Maybe it could all be put underneath, I don\'t know
enough to know if the magnetron energy could efficiently guided up
to where it needs to be, probably. It might be niche need that a
company could make a buck on, but they don\'t seem to have made that
happen.

You can find microwaves with the controls on right (most common, by a
huge factor), top (common in industrial settings), bottom (rare) and
*left* (rarer still!)

There\'s little demand for \"tiny\" ovens as most folks are looking for
something in which they can, at least, reheat a plate of leftovers.
And, with convection capabilities, \"turkeys\" are probably the high end
of that size range.

[Having turned down an offer to design said controls for a firm
specializing in that, many decades ago]

We do mostly stovetop cooking in my household so the +30 button tends to
be the most-used button and the rest rarely to never.
We use: - beverage (to reheat tea/coffee) - reheat (to heat/thaw frozen
marinara/bolognese sauce) - digits (to set timer) - +30 (bump the time
remaining, quick-heat tea, soften butter) - CLOCK (to force ToD into the
display when it is otherwise \"timing\") - CLEAR (to discard remaining time
on the timer)
You could probably market a microwave oven with just that control to
the younger crowd, nobody under 30 uses the temperature probes or
auto-defrost or the \"Popcorn\" button (will only burn your popcorn) or
all that crap.
Popcorn is best made in hot oil (olive or sesame, despite low smoke
point). The \"specialty\" buttons (and \"modes\") primarily just adjust the
power level and/or duty cycle. But, only save labor if something will be
*in* the oven for a long time. It\'s rare the oven is \"on\" for more than a
minute at a time (though often used to TIME longer intervals).

[I think it takes 2.5 minutes to \"heat to serving temperature from
frozen\" a piece of meatloaf. A bit longer to defrost a pint of red sauce
to serving temperature...]

One surprise (that shouldn\'t have been!) I discovered was that increasing
a timer from 60 to 70 to 90 seconds behaves as expected. But, 90 to 100
can catch you off guard!

I\'m pretty sure they don\'t adjust power level, the magnetron is an on/off
proposition. They do adjust duty cycle and total time.

Here, \"duty cycle\" exists in the macro and micro sense.

The \"power level\" of the maggie is adjusted by controlling duty cycle in
the \"micro\" sense.

The \"duty cycle\" that the user sees is on a larger timescale -- i.e., power
is applied (at some \"power level\") for some number of seconds, then removed
for some other number of seconds, then repeated.

The user can *hear* when power is being applied and when \"resting\".

And the microwave
computes total time based up your input. Defrost asks you for the weight to
be defrosted, self-adjusts the total time, and hits it with a 33% duty, just
as an example, and it works pretty well for just about everything. POTATO
works pretty well for baking a medium size potato in about 8 minutes, but if
it\'s a big one, you need to run it through twice. The user needs to be
willing to play with and remember the performance. If they\'re dumb the oven
is not going to be a convenience for them But I guess that\'s true of
everything.

Ours has different \"modes\" for different items.

E.g., REHEAT allows you to specify:
1 PASTA
2 MEATS
3 VEGS
4 BEV
5 SAUCE
6 PLATE
(these are indicated in the display in case you\'ve forgotten
what each numeric code implies) with an optional followup digit
of \'2\' or \'3\' to determine the amount being reheated (servings).

AUTO DEF expects a weight -- in tenths of pounds.

Then, there is a TIME COOK control which allows
a duration and optional power level, defaulting to
\'10\'.

TIME DEF also expects a duration but fixes the power
level at \'3\'.

In each \"mode\", the oven decides how to modulate the
maggie to produce the expected \"power level\" as well
as how to \"gate\" the application of power vs. \"rest\"
time.

Pressing \"+30\" while the oven is off acts as a shortcut
for \"TIME COOK 30 POWER LEVEL 10\" with subsequent presses
adding 30 seconds to the time remaining. So, to soften
butter (~10 seconds), it is easier to \"+30\", wait until
display has counted down to \"20\", press CLEAR. To thaw
marinara sauce, \"REHEAT 5 3 (servings as I freeze it in
pint size containers)\" and periodically check to see if
it might need more time; if so, \"+30\" continues the cycle
at the current power level and \"duty cycle\".

Somewhere, there is a probe that lets the oven monitor
the internal temperature of a roast. And, I think the
POPCORN setting \"listens\" for the cessation of \"pops\"
to determine when to stop heating the kernels.

As bitrex said, pretty much all of these are useless
options, for most folks.

We use the stovetop for fried foods and parboiling/steaming
veggies. The convection toaster oven for normal meals
(chicken parmigiana, pizzas, etc.) as there are only two
of us. And the big oven for baking.

 

[Don Y]

On 7/10/2022 8:26 PM, Don Y wrote:

Ours has different \"modes\" for different items.

E.g., REHEAT allows you to specify:
1 PASTA
2 MEATS
3 VEGS
4 BEV
5 SAUCE
6 PLATE
(these are indicated in the display in case you\'ve forgotten
what each numeric code implies) with an optional followup digit
of \'2\' or \'3\' to determine the amount being reheated (servings).

There are also \"SNACK\" and \"COOK\" buttons with their own similar
submenus (e.g., how many ounces of veggies or slices of bread, etc.)

A typical case of some engineer designing a product as it COULD
be designed instead of as it SHOULD be designed!

[We bought one for my MinL, many years ago, with a big rotary KNOB!
Ideal UI for her! \"Turn to *here* to reheat a cup of coffee...\"]

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

mandag den 11. juli 2022 kl. 05.26.51 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

And, I think the
POPCORN setting \"listens\" for the cessation of \"pops\"
to determine when to stop heating the kernels.

https://youtu.be/UiS27feX8o0?t=249

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-07-10, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 9:14:04 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to
simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same?
I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they
can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven
cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or
alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.
The standard layout is fine, and works fine for making $60 microwaves.

What\'s you looking for is called a \"microwave drawer\" and they\'re all
rediculous to use. Its like loading and pulling food from a slide out
trash can. Everything about them sort of sucks.

No, I\'m asking about a $60 microwave that has the controls above the door, rather than beside it. The part I don\'t know about, never having taken a microwave apart, is if it\'s a big deal to try to reposition the rest of the oven layout. Someone has said it\'s a problem, but that guy sounds like a moron. Another talked about the magnetron, but didn\'t say it was a problem moving it.

The place I\'m in this week has a medium size microwave, wedged diagonally in the corner of a small counter and takes up a much larger portion of the counter than is needed. But there\'s just no other place to put it really. Turning it parallel to either wall makes it less convenient and still doesn\'t give back any worthwhile space. But if it were four inches less wide, that would make it worthwhile to sit against the wall rather than cross ways in the corner.

All in all this is one of the more accommodating places I\'ve been in Puerto Rico. Nothing in particular stands out, but it doesn\'t have many of the many oddities you find here. There are no steps in the floor anywhere in the house or the porches. This may be the first place I\'ve stayed without that oddity. One apartment I was in had a 1 inch rise to the bathroom. With the tile (nearly everywhere is ceramic tile in PR) and the grout about the same color, I stubbed my toe on it a number of times in the dim light. Another place had a flush threshold from patio to inside at one door, but a one inch rise at another door. I guess levels are not popular in Puerto Rico. That same place, had an 8 inch step into the bathroom (not uncommon, maybe for pipes) but no wall. That\'s right, the bathroom only had three walls, so a full view from the bedroom with a queen and a bunk bed.

Well, that\'s a drift from the microwave, so I guess I should stop dragging my own thread off topic.

the magnetron is about as big as half a beer can. there\'s room for it in a
corner of the cooking box. the big part is the transformer, but you
could do an SMSPSU and fit that behind the control strip. The magnetron
needs forced airflow to keep it cool but there\'s ways to handle that.
eg: put a fan in the opposite corner

--
Jasen.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-07-11, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

On 7/10/2022 8:59 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 7/10/2022 5:46 AM, amdx wrote:
I haven\'t had a newer switching style microwave apart, but with the
older heavy transformer, that had to be set out side
the cooking area, along with the magnetron and control pcb, it just
seems reasonable to put the control panel in the
expanded area made for the other parts. Putting it on top would add
about 5\" to the height, also make it very top heavy,
instead having uneven weight distribution. Maybe it could all be put
underneath, I don\'t know enough to know if the magnetron
energy could efficiently guided up to where it needs to be, probably.
It might be niche need that a company could make a buck on,
but they don\'t seem to have made that happen.

You can find microwaves with the controls on right (most common, by a huge
factor), top (common in industrial settings), bottom (rare) and *left*
(rarer
still!)

There\'s little demand for \"tiny\" ovens as most folks are looking for
something
in which they can, at least, reheat a plate of leftovers.  And, with
convection
capabilities, \"turkeys\" are probably the high end of that size range.

[Having turned down an offer to design said controls for a firm
specializing in
that, many decades ago]

We do mostly stovetop cooking in my household so the +30 button tends to
be the most-used button and the rest rarely to never.

You could probably market a microwave oven with just that control to the
younger crowd, nobody under 30 uses the temperature probes or
auto-defrost or the \"Popcorn\" button (will only burn your popcorn) or
all that crap.

The one we have here has instant start buttons for 1 to 6 minutes and a +30
or you can set the timer, and powere level etc. - if you can remember how!



--
Jasen.

 

[Jasen Betts]

On 2022-07-10, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 10:18:00 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

Or, just putting the controls on the door; something like a four-wire USB cord could easily be routed through
a door hinge.

I think most of the magetrons are kinda... cubes, though. That and a mode mixer (fan) andtable rotator are always going to be space hogs.

the active parts are cylindrical, but there are square heatsinks
magnetic paths, and radio proof boxes, these parts could all be
cylindrical too.

--
Jasen.

 

[Cydrome Leader]

Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

On 7/10/2022 8:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
Ours has different \"modes\" for different items.

E.g., REHEAT allows you to specify:
1 PASTA
2 MEATS
3 VEGS
4 BEV
5 SAUCE
6 PLATE
(these are indicated in the display in case you\'ve forgotten
what each numeric code implies) with an optional followup digit
of \'2\' or \'3\' to determine the amount being reheated (servings).

There are also \"SNACK\" and \"COOK\" buttons with their own similar
submenus (e.g., how many ounces of veggies or slices of bread, etc.)

A typical case of some engineer designing a product as it COULD
be designed instead of as it SHOULD be designed!

[We bought one for my MinL, many years ago, with a big rotary KNOB!
Ideal UI for her! \"Turn to *here* to reheat a cup of coffee...\"]

Those old Tappan and Litton units with the single knob and maybe
cook/defrost were basically perfection, until the spinning carousel was
standard issue. Some of the old unit had a \"fan\" blade to scatter the
microwaves around the cavity to try to even out the cooking.

All the other crap is feature bloat. Does anyone really look at the entree
legend in the door or menus instead of just hitting the minute button a
few times?

I do like the weird kitchen TVCR looking Whirlpool that was posted here.

 

[Brian Howie]

On 09/07/2022 18:17, Ricky wrote:

I\'ve seen microwave ovens designed for small spaces. None of them are actually so good, because they put the control panel on the side of the oven door making the oven larger and taking up more space on the counter than needed.

Is there something about the internal organization that precludes putting the controls above or below the oven door, giving the oven a smaller footprint on the counter?

It seems there must be some reason for this. Does it come down to simple expediency on their part, keeping all oven layouts the same? I\'ve seen no shortage of microwave ovens with openings so small, they can barely cook a bag of popcorn. Remove the side panel and the oven cavity can be that much larger without using more counter space, or alternately, use less counter space in places that have very little.

I guess the oven cavity has to be a multiple of half wavelengths at
2.4GHz , which quantises the dimensions which work.

http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys283/lectures/three_d/hauck.pdf

Brian

--
Brian