MessageView 421F schematic

[TekMan]

"joe4702" <joe4702@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1114026566.864978.261090@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...

...snippety..

This scope is very pristine inside and out. I bought it
from a private owner who obviously didn't use it much.
I'm hoping the hybrids hold out but I paid less than $200,
so I'm not in too deep.

$200 is a bargain for such a beauty.

scnr,
Andreas

 

[Chris]

Leonard Martin wrote:

Well, how nice for you that you function in a world where $75 for a
manual is small change! There are lots of us hobbyists out here who
like
to experiment with electronics but who might find that to be their
"mad"
money for a month. Somehow, as one of them, I'm not convinced by your

"all us well-off businessmen should be good t each other" argument.

This kind of stuff is part of a trend that's been going on, to my
amazement, for a couple of decades now. It might be summed up as
"Business is more important than anything. The market is God.
Whatever's
good for either is great, and the devil take the rest!" Under this
regime each new enormity perpetrated by some business, like this one
by
Aligent (or the copyright extension that business got away with a
while
ago) first causes a bit of squirming on the part of the victims, but
then other virtuous souls remind them of the three divine maxims set
out
above, and everyone then naturally knuckles under.

How did a once-free, and in fact instinctively rebellious, people
come
to this?

Leonard

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

As to your ad hominem argument about well-off businessmen all watching
each others' backs, I showed that to the War Department, and she got a
good laugh out of that one. A slightly bitter laugh, but a good one.
I expect to be called "The Well-Off Businessman" or "Bourgeoise
Capitalist" or "Moneybags Industrialist" for at least several days.
But as a matter of fact, most of the manuals I've purchased over the
years have been for employers or customers. If you compare the cost of
a new lab instrument to a used/reconditioned one, $25 to $75 is small
change. They're still way ahead. As to my own few lab quality
instruments, if I can't afford the manual I need, I can't afford the
instrument.

It's not an issue of being an acolyte of the neo-liberal economic
church of Milton Friedman and his divine maxims. It's an issue of
fairness, which usually comes from the other side of the
political/economic aisle, as do I. And it's an issue of encouraging
creativity and rewarding the creators of intellectual property for
their work. Copyright is a very American idea. Before the formation
of the United States, the King of England had the right to award
monopolies on the publication of books. This monopoly was sometimes
used to reward cronies or punish the creators of the IP by burying the
book. Look at any American History survey course textbook, and Article
I, Section 8 of our constitution, as well as the original Copyright Act
of 1790.

It's kind of funny, really. Here's a newsgroup for electronics design.
Contributors include researchers, authors, teachers and professors,
chip designers, and many really good electronic engineers who make
original contributions to the field and write for everyone's benefit in
this newsgroup, trade journals and their websites. (I don't belong in
their league. For the most part, I just try to stay out of their way
and answer simple, obvious questions so they won't have to, along with
a suggestion to post to s.e.b. next time.) I'm just happy to read
their conversations and learn from them. But one thing they all have
in common is creating intellectual property for a living. One would
think they would be willing to go to the wall for IP rights in general.
Or possibly they're just being a little short-sighted.

These are not good times for U.S. engineers in general, particularly in
manufacturing. There seems to be a disconnect in our country between
the value of a thing which is made and the value of the intelligence
behind it. Managers of manufacturing companies feel they can do it
with fewer engineers, and then are surprised when their product line
gets stale, customers complain they can't get support with their
product and will buy something else next time, disastrous manufacturing
glitches happen on the floor -- things don't work right and nobody
knows why.

In my career, I've seen good engineers creating IP and increasing the
value of the companies they worked for, far in excess of whatever
they're paid (sometimes the equivalent of years salary on one project),
then being thrown away like used coffee grounds. The current crop of
tender, green MBAs could have a notion to shoot the company in the foot
by reducing "indirect labor and overhead costs". Management may decide
they can hire a fresh fish out of school or a foreign visa applicant
for a lot less money. They might even just let an engineer go if he
gets sick. In short, they really don't value IP because they don't
value the creators of IP.

TAANSTAAFL means There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (Robert A.
Heinlein, "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", one of the icons of my
misspent youth). That's been used as a motto of the Scaife, Coors and
Murdoch neoliberals at the Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise
Institute and Fox as they try to march the United States back to the
Gilded Age of the 1890s. I'm afraid Heinlein even used it himself that
way. But before the politics and the macroeconomics comes the basic
issue of paying for value received and doing what's fair. If you don't
pay an engineer for the value received from his IP he's trying to sell,
he'll stop making IP and do something profitable to support his family.
If you don't pay for the value of IP received from a coprporation, the
people whose job is making the IP will not be profitable to employ, and
will be let go. Fewer working engineers, less creativity and less IP
will mean a declining manufacturing economy. And as things go down the
drain and there are no more manufacturing jobs available, people will
just console themselves with anti-intellectual, anti-science beliefs,
following people like Ron Grossi and staring at Fox. They'll let other
countries take the lead, and they'll call it God's just punishment on a
sinful society.

So much for the big picture. I treat IP as always having value because
it does. I do it out of respect to the creators, and to maintain the
value of the IP. I also do it in order to keep from devaluing IP in
general.

Agilent isn't running around with platoons of armed library police, and
they definitely aren't buying up old manuals to keep 'em out of your
hands. I have never known of anybody who quietly copied a manual for
personal use who was busted by the legal department at HP or any
instrument manufacturer. I don't believe they really care about
manuals for orphaned instruments, except that there are several
long-term consequences to not making pro forma efforts to defend their
IP from obvious attempts to devalue it (like putting scans on the net).
Actually, I'm sure they look on this whole issue as a money and good
will loser and a general PITA. They see you acting like since it's
their fault they made these great, reliable instruments 25 years ago
that still work great today, they should be punished for it. I get the
feeling they already are, and I'm personally afraid they might be
thinking about learning from their "mistakes".

And as for me, I'll "pay for my pleasures", and have my employers and
customers pay for theirs, not so much because I can afford to light my
cigars with $100 bills as that's just the right way to do it. You
know, the right thing to do? Like, ethics and honesty and all that? I
know it seems obsolete in these times, but some of us (at least as many
Blue as Red) still feel that way.

Good luck
Chris

 

Aidan Grey wrote:

On 21 Apr 2005 06:16:41 -0700, free_tron@yahoo.com wrote:

I am looking for a PC PCI card that can perform the function of the
HP
4194A, but does only need to have a band of 100HZ to 10MHZ.

If anyone know of any thing that might help please let me know.

Thanks


I am not familiar with the HP 4194A.

However, if you are looking for a PC oscilloscope, check the sites
www.gage-applied.com and www.ni.com. Both companies carry a
variety of cards for data acquisition.

Aidan, *explitive deleted*. 4194A != oscilloscope. Try google first!

The 4194A is an "impedance analyzer". You may be able to "fake" what
it does with an FFT card, sig gen card and a directional coupler but
then you'll need to worry about calibration and accuracy.

If you have gelt, find (rent, buy, borrow, whatever) an Agilent 4294A
which does pretty much everything the 4194A did but has LCR meter-like
fixturing and a spectrum analyzer-like UI. It's much easier to use
than the 4194A.

MM

 

[Yzordderrex]

Looks like HP has agreed to allow BAMA to publish. A well coined
letter to Agilent counsul was the key to open this door. Thanks to all
involved with getting this important job done. We all love surplus HP
gear!

regards
N9NEO


http://amfone.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4565

 

[Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su]

"Leonard Martin" <lmarti49NOSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lmarti49NOSPAM-E2DF67.22084927042005@bignews.bellsouth.net...

In article <1114279907.850741.161850@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Chris" <cfoley1064@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]

Chris


Well, how nice for you that you function in a world where $75 for a
manual is small change! There are lots of us hobbyists out here who
like
to experiment with electronics but who might find that to be their
"mad"
money for a month. Somehow, as one of them, I'm not convinced by your
"all us well-off businessmen should be good t each other" argument.

This kind of stuff is part of a trend that's been going on, to my
amazement, for a couple of decades now. It might be summed up as
"Business is more important than anything. The market is God.
Whatever's
good for either is great, and the devil take the rest!" Under this
regime each new enormity perpetrated by some business, like this one
by
Aligent (or the copyright extension that business got away with a
while
ago) first causes a bit of squirming on the part of the victims, but
then other virtuous souls remind them of the three divine maxims set
out
above, and everyone then naturally knuckles under.

How did a once-free, and in fact instinctively rebellious, people come
to this?

It seems that to maintain civility, some loss of freedom seems to be
necessary. Like with spam and email. Taking away the ability to spam
anonymously brings complaints from those who say that will also take
away the freedom to email anonymously. Yeah, it seems so. If you want
to remain anonymous by wearing a ski mask, it'd probably make a lot of
difference on how you're treated when you walk into a 7-11.

Leonard

--

 

[JeffM]

for automotive use on a 12V DC system.
Or does some know where one can buy one off the shelf?
Tony Christian

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:jcwhitney.com+ammeter

Note: Running 50A into the passengers' compartment
just to measure it is probably a terrible idea.
**Remote sensing** with **Local Readout**
is likely what you want.

 

[Leonard Martin]

In article <1114729510.293466.122090@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Chris" <cfoley1064@yahoo.com> wrote:

Leonard Martin wrote:

Well, how nice for you that you function in a world where $75 for a
manual is small change! There are lots of us hobbyists out here who
like
to experiment with electronics but who might find that to be their
"mad"
money for a month. Somehow, as one of them, I'm not convinced by your

"all us well-off businessmen should be good t each other" argument.

This kind of stuff is part of a trend that's been going on, to my
amazement, for a couple of decades now. It might be summed up as
"Business is more important than anything. The market is God.
Whatever's
good for either is great, and the devil take the rest!" Under this
regime each new enormity perpetrated by some business, like this one
by
Aligent (or the copyright extension that business got away with a
while
ago) first causes a bit of squirming on the part of the victims, but
then other virtuous souls remind them of the three divine maxims set
out
above, and everyone then naturally knuckles under.

How did a once-free, and in fact instinctively rebellious, people
come
to this?

Leonard

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

As to your ad hominem argument about well-off businessmen all watching
each others' backs, I showed that to the War Department, and she got a
good laugh out of that one. A slightly bitter laugh, but a good one.
I expect to be called "The Well-Off Businessman" or "Bourgeoise
Capitalist" or "Moneybags Industrialist" for at least several days.
But as a matter of fact, most of the manuals I've purchased over the
years have been for employers or customers. If you compare the cost of
a new lab instrument to a used/reconditioned one, $25 to $75 is small
change. They're still way ahead. As to my own few lab quality
instruments, if I can't afford the manual I need, I can't afford the
instrument.

It's not an issue of being an acolyte of the neo-liberal economic
church of Milton Friedman and his divine maxims. It's an issue of
fairness, which usually comes from the other side of the
political/economic aisle, as do I. And it's an issue of encouraging
creativity and rewarding the creators of intellectual property for
their work. Copyright is a very American idea. Before the formation
of the United States, the King of England had the right to award
monopolies on the publication of books. This monopoly was sometimes
used to reward cronies or punish the creators of the IP by burying the
book. Look at any American History survey course textbook, and Article
I, Section 8 of our constitution, as well as the original Copyright Act
of 1790.

It's kind of funny, really. Here's a newsgroup for electronics design.
Contributors include researchers, authors, teachers and professors,
chip designers, and many really good electronic engineers who make
original contributions to the field and write for everyone's benefit in
this newsgroup, trade journals and their websites. (I don't belong in
their league. For the most part, I just try to stay out of their way
and answer simple, obvious questions so they won't have to, along with
a suggestion to post to s.e.b. next time.) I'm just happy to read
their conversations and learn from them. But one thing they all have
in common is creating intellectual property for a living. One would
think they would be willing to go to the wall for IP rights in general.
Or possibly they're just being a little short-sighted.

These are not good times for U.S. engineers in general, particularly in
manufacturing. There seems to be a disconnect in our country between
the value of a thing which is made and the value of the intelligence
behind it. Managers of manufacturing companies feel they can do it
with fewer engineers, and then are surprised when their product line
gets stale, customers complain they can't get support with their
product and will buy something else next time, disastrous manufacturing
glitches happen on the floor -- things don't work right and nobody
knows why.

In my career, I've seen good engineers creating IP and increasing the
value of the companies they worked for, far in excess of whatever
they're paid (sometimes the equivalent of years salary on one project),
then being thrown away like used coffee grounds. The current crop of
tender, green MBAs could have a notion to shoot the company in the foot
by reducing "indirect labor and overhead costs". Management may decide
they can hire a fresh fish out of school or a foreign visa applicant
for a lot less money. They might even just let an engineer go if he
gets sick. In short, they really don't value IP because they don't
value the creators of IP.

TAANSTAAFL means There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch (Robert A.
Heinlein, "The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress", one of the icons of my
misspent youth). That's been used as a motto of the Scaife, Coors and
Murdoch neoliberals at the Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise
Institute and Fox as they try to march the United States back to the
Gilded Age of the 1890s. I'm afraid Heinlein even used it himself that
way. But before the politics and the macroeconomics comes the basic
issue of paying for value received and doing what's fair. If you don't
pay an engineer for the value received from his IP he's trying to sell,
he'll stop making IP and do something profitable to support his family.
If you don't pay for the value of IP received from a coprporation, the
people whose job is making the IP will not be profitable to employ, and
will be let go. Fewer working engineers, less creativity and less IP
will mean a declining manufacturing economy. And as things go down the
drain and there are no more manufacturing jobs available, people will
just console themselves with anti-intellectual, anti-science beliefs,
following people like Ron Grossi and staring at Fox. They'll let other
countries take the lead, and they'll call it God's just punishment on a
sinful society.

So much for the big picture. I treat IP as always having value because
it does. I do it out of respect to the creators, and to maintain the
value of the IP. I also do it in order to keep from devaluing IP in
general.

Agilent isn't running around with platoons of armed library police, and
they definitely aren't buying up old manuals to keep 'em out of your
hands. I have never known of anybody who quietly copied a manual for
personal use who was busted by the legal department at HP or any
instrument manufacturer. I don't believe they really care about
manuals for orphaned instruments, except that there are several
long-term consequences to not making pro forma efforts to defend their
IP from obvious attempts to devalue it (like putting scans on the net).
Actually, I'm sure they look on this whole issue as a money and good
will loser and a general PITA. They see you acting like since it's
their fault they made these great, reliable instruments 25 years ago
that still work great today, they should be punished for it. I get the
feeling they already are, and I'm personally afraid they might be
thinking about learning from their "mistakes".

And as for me, I'll "pay for my pleasures", and have my employers and
customers pay for theirs, not so much because I can afford to light my
cigars with $100 bills as that's just the right way to do it. You
know, the right thing to do? Like, ethics and honesty and all that? I
know it seems obsolete in these times, but some of us (at least as many
Blue as Red) still feel that way.

Good luck
Chris

Copyright is fine. Patents are fine. But their continual extension, both
in time and ambit, at the behest of lobbyists for big corporations just
contributes to the increasing concentration of assets in fewer and fewer
hands.

It's amusing, as corporations grow ever larger, more powerful, and more
expansive in what they control, to hear folks defending free enterprise
and fairly-compensated innovation of hard-working engineers as if the
interests of such individual workers and creators were the same as those
of the wealthy stockholders who deploy immensely more power simply by
virtue of their wealth. Obviously those interests are not the same, as
the current endless tale of "layoffs for the workers equals more profits
for the stockholders" continually demonstrates.

Once the right-wing TV personality John Stossel did a show about a
little old lady in Atlantic City who refused to sell her house to a huge
neighboring casino that wanted to expand. How cruel was the pressure
they put on her! How noble was her fight! What sympathy she deserved for
being mistreated by that big, mean corporation.....etc., etc., etc.,
with lots and lots more sentimentality and tear jerking.

And finally (and this was the why Stossel did the story) there was the
true message hidden within all the schmaltz: See how important it is
that property rights are always defended to the max!!!!

Stossel couldn't have cared less about the woman's suffering, but I'm
sure he appreciated her story as a good way of confusing things nicely.
What he didn't want the viewers to notice, and I'm sure they mostly
didn't, is that it's not usually a sweet little property owner standing
up for property rights against larger forces. It's the reverse.
Something like 90 percent of all of the private assets of this country
are controlled by less than 10 percent of its people (and the latter is
a percentage that's continually decreasing these days!). That means
that, to the extent that property rights are made increasingly rigid and
sacred, our society becomes increasingly a place where more and more
power is concentrated in the same fewer and fewer hands.

This is what they've got in several Latin American countries, and the
result is constant unrest from the poor and repression, torturing, and
killing from the rich. In the US we've been slowly working our way in
that direction for the past 30 years.

Sorry, guy, what we're in in the US now is one very, very big case where
more "hair of the dog that bit you" (i.e., more, and safer, returns for
the stockholders) won't fix things. They've shown for a generation that
they only want their profits, period, and in the process of getting them
they will be happy to continue throwing away as many workers as they
possibly can without regret or compunction.

Cordially

Leonard (the other one)

--
"Everything that rises must converge"
--Flannery O'Connor

 

[Wayne.B]

On Mon, 2 May 2005 11:01:49 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore@cox.net>
wrote:

That type is probably the most practical digital ammeter for that kind of
use but one caution. The power to run the meter has to be isolated from the
circuit being measured. They need either a battery or an isolated dc/dc
converter to power them.

===========================

Is that because the meter needs a floating ground, or is there another
reason?

 

[alitonto]

Once I was in a similar situation.
If you can, connet the item to a 12 v car battery and measure the
current draw.( the battery will have 12 to 13.5 v and provide whatever
current is needed)
Then if it is about 400ma then it would be ok to use the adaptor
because anything drawing about that current will cause the voltage to
drop to about 12-13 volts.( as per the specs of the adaptor).
Ali Tonto

 

I can do it, send me the url.


Robert Baer wrote:
> Why would anyone "test" a URL that might be or have a *nasty* virus???

 

[JeffM]

(-PLEASE- No lectures or legal suppositions needed or desired)
Kathleen Carmody

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=suborn

..
..

There are vendors off shore, but none here in CONUS that I know of.

People (other than you?) are averse to going to jail.

What are you? 13 years old?

 

[Dr. Anton T. Squeegee]

In article <Ma2dna19_uD9OCDfRVnyjw@skypoint.com>,
councilmembercarmody@ci.brooklyn-center.mn.us says...

(-PLEASE- No lectures or legal suppositions needed or desired)

Anyone know where to purchase a cellular phone jammer, preferably
stateside. There are vendors off shore, but none here in CONUS
that I know of. Please post here any US vendors that sell cellular
jammers. (Extra points for relating your experience with using one.)

The reason there are no stateside vendors for such is because such
devices are illegal under FCC regs. Any seller of such who tried to
advertise them would get shut down so fast it wouldn't even be funny.

If you're going to buy one, you'll need to do so from an overseas
vendor. Period.

Keep the peace(es).


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

 

I would guess the elevator is not a solid cage, but has many longish
slots that allow the signals to get thru. A true faraday cage has lots
of very small openings (compared to a wavelength of a signal that is
being blocked).

The FCC legal department is believed to be preparing a special
notice/ruling/whatever to warn folks against trying to do what you
appear to be doing. Their legal department has already punished
several vendors of jammers, although I haven't heard of any of the
users of the jammers being jailed or fined, just warned that if they
were caught again there would be severe punishment.

Buy ear plugs instead, it is safer and cheaper.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

 

[Jerry G.]

Today, you can buy a modern digital volt meter for a few dollars that
would out perform your old AVO meter by better than a thousand to one.
The old AVO meters would not be safe to take measurements in most of
today's sensitive electronic equipment.

If you have any old AVO meters in excellent condition, they have resale
value as antiques for collectors.


Jerry G.
======

 

[Jerry G.]

I realize you do not want legal advice. But, take the time to consider
that anyone caught selling a device to jam any kind of communications
that are considered esential services are fully liable.

In the US, Canada, UK, and many other countries around the world,
anyone selling or using any device that causes the jamming of any
public service or utility communicaitons will be full liable, and may
have to serve for it.


Jerry G.
======

 

[bryant]

Ron-

The 2N5809 is a small signal plastic case low noise, hi gain transistor
typically by Motorola used for audio applications. I used these in the
early 70's with good success. As I recall, hfe is on the order of 250,
Vce about 30v. I may have one or two left.

Bryant

 

Cellphones are damhard to jam, because they look for an open channel
you have to interfere with the entire 2.4G band, and some others.

You don't have to bother with old 900 Mhz band, I don't think anyone
will provide service for them anymore.

Cheapest thing I could think of is a wireless camera. We have 2.4 Ghz
phones and can't use this camera because it takes their range down to
about two feet. Apparently the video uses so much bandwidth, the "best"
channel they find is still laden with noise.

One wonders why you want to do this, I'm sure we all get the urge when
somebody does something stoooooooopid on the freeway. I can also think
of legitimate reasons for this, but only on private property. Doing it
in public might result in you finding out more about those "legal
suppositions" than you want. The FCC in the US is the most aggresive of
that type of agency in the world by far, THEY HAVE A SWAT TEAM ! I am
not kidding, they do, they are armed.

The political reasons for this are beyond the scope of this text,
suffice it to say that information control is very critical for the
government and big business, as such the FCC can use deadly force, and
with the control, cover it up.

If you are interested in the political end of this, say so in a post
here and I'll open up email with you, I don't want to stray too far off
topic.

JURB

 

[Andy]

Andy writes:

If the Faraday cage had perfect conductivity and were
seamless, it would work pretty well. However, using REAL
materials, the EM energy is only attenuated so many db,
depending on the material. Additionally, every discontinuity
such as a seam or change in material, sets up circulating
currents which retransmit the field on the inside of the cage,
with the attenuation depending on the thickness, the material,
the length of the discontinuity, and a dozen other things...

In other words, it ain't gonna work in the real world like it
works in the textbook.... A Faraday cage is a theoretical
concept which works on paper, but cannot be produced
in nature...... Besides, you would suffocate fairly quickly...

You can prove this by tuning a transistor radio to a local
AM station, then wrapping it in aluminum foil..... Damn little
effect , if any. Wrap it in several overlapping layers and try to
make it seamless..... it still won't get rid of that damn rap music...

... that's why the elevator you mentioned doesn't give a million
db of attenuation to the cell phone.

Andy (retired from Raytheon Electromagnetics Lab)

Regarding your second mention, about the TTL circuitry....
More than likely , there is enough electrical noise flying about
at a level greater than the cell tower signal in your receiver, to
keep the receiver from processing it. Hence, you will probably
get a "no signal" indication on you little cell phone indicator.
It probably doesn't work well around arc welders, either....

The basis of jammers is to prevent your receiver from processing
the cell tower signal. It doesn't take much energy to do this, since
we are talking about field strengths in the microvolt level.

 

I still use an Avo Mk8.On most jobs I find it better than the digital
stuff.With digital I have to think if the number is good or bad with
analogue I know instantly from the position of the needle.In Scotland a
good Avo in a case can usually be had for Ł30.
regards,Mark.

 

[Tom MacIntyre]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:32:09 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 20:14:35 GMT, the renowned Tom MacIntyre
tom__macintyre@hotmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:40:03 GMT, "St. John Smythe"
UndisclosedRecipient@privacy.net> wrote:

Mark Healey wrote:

Couldn't this be fixed with a better regulator added to the warts
circuitry?

Possibly (but only possibly). The old axiom about polishing a turd
comes to mind.

What if you use Turdle Wax?

Tom

Is that what it's for? Then what would you use Johnson wax for?

Tom

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany