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On 08/21/2022 03:54 PM, Don Y wrote:
Without sheet music, it is often hard to sort out the intended lyrics.
I recall a friend calling me, ecstatic, having resolved \"their walls are
built of canon balls\".

Then, of course, we have enigmas like:
A fine little girl, she waits for me
Me catch the ship across the sea
Me sailed the ship all alone
Me never think I\'ll make it home
(c\'mon... you KNOW this one -- but likely never the right lyrics! :> )

I never even got that much out of it. I still hear \'every night at ten
we do it again\' and have no idea which line in the published lyrics that
might be.

I really like \'Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress\', have read the lyrics,
but I still only hear snatches of them.

> Charlie handed in his dime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lcOHE3Or4

Van Ronk\'s diction varied by the time of night. I caught him once at the
Cafe Lena in Saratoga. He disappeared after the first set. Lena\'s had a
very tasty non-alcoholic drink made with orzata but my wife,
brother-in-law and myself had something else in mind so we hit the
street too looking for the first bar. It was just down the block and
there was Dave holding court. We settled in figuring it would be time to
go back for the second set when the performer headed out. The scheduled
time came and went. Then Lena appeared and dragged Van Ronk back bodily.
The place had filled up but Lena let us hang out on the back stairs to
listen to the second set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVqfX4ys4M

That\'s one of the few songs I tried to master and never succeeded even
though Van Ronk has an instructional video. My version is closer to
Reverend Gary Davis\' where Van Ronk learned it but I can\'t get his phrasing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1RIoalqKgw




I preferred brass/horns. But, very few pieces work as solos (The Lonely
Bull?)
Its one of the reasons I enjoy the Chase album mentioned upthread.

In grade school when it came time for music lessons I said \'cornet\'. The
teacher thought I said \'clarinet\'. That didn\'t last long and I switched
to flute. I have a Boehm system flute but usually stick with the six
hole simple system.

Most of my creative work goes into system design. I enjoy learning
about \"needs\" and coming up with ways to address them. Always
trying to see how *little* of my own \"policies\" I can impose on
the design (build mechanism, not policy).

I enjoy software design but there\'s more to life.

> Distinctive sound. Sort of like Janis.

I saw her in a roadhouse on the Albany-Schenectady road. Probably \'68
when she did some east coast touring and before really taking off. It
wasn\'t a prime time venue. The stage was a raised dais on the dance
floor and people were free to wander up and leave pints of Southern
Comfort.


I have a fair bit of Dylan but get tired of him really quick.
\"It all sounds the same\".

Despite not being able to remember lyrics, it\'s the lyrics that make a
song for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y2FuDY6Q4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grp5oROAfBg

Different stories. Or are they? Dylan\'s is more apropos since the powers
that be still hate the Russians. Brendan Behan\'s brother Dominic write
the lyrics to the Patriot Game. Dylan probably copied Behan though at
one point he said he might have maybe heard it from Jean Redpath.

A lot of Springsteen is the same. The melodies, if not recycled, are
simple enough that they are similar but the lyrics tell the stories.

My appreciation for the Dead is for albums like Workingman\'s Dead or
American Beauty. Those 20 minute musical journeys to nowhere do nothing
to me.
 
On 8/21/2022 5:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/21/2022 03:54 PM, Don Y wrote:

Without sheet music, it is often hard to sort out the intended lyrics.
I recall a friend calling me, ecstatic, having resolved \"their walls are
built of canon balls\".

Then, of course, we have enigmas like:
A fine little girl, she waits for me
Me catch the ship across the sea
Me sailed the ship all alone
Me never think I\'ll make it home
(c\'mon... you KNOW this one -- but likely never the right lyrics! :> )

I never even got that much out of it. I still hear \'every night at ten we do it
again\' and have no idea which line in the published lyrics that might be.

A fine little girl, she waits for me
Me catch the ship across the sea
Me sailed the ship all alone
Me never think I\'ll make it home

Three nights and days I sailed the sea
Me think of girl constantly
On the ship, I dream she there
I smell the rose in her hair

Me see
Me see Jamaica, the moon above
It won\'t be long me see me love
Me take her in my arms and then
I tell her I\'ll never leave again

If you memorize them (or read them) and listen to the
music, they actually \"fit\".

And, they \"make (some sort of) sense\". Not true of
many lyrics!

I recall seeing a series of interviews with various
musicians asked what THEY thought the lyrics to be.
It was hilarious!

I really like \'Long Cool Woman in a Black Dress\', have read the lyrics, but I
still only hear snatches of them.

Charlie handed in his dime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lcOHE3Or4

Mitch McConnell will be thrilled to know that a singing career isn\'t out of the
question! :>

Van Ronk\'s diction varied by the time of night. I caught him once at the Cafe
Lena in Saratoga. He disappeared after the first set. Lena\'s had a very tasty
non-alcoholic drink made with orzata but my wife, brother-in-law and myself had
something else in mind so we hit the street too looking for the first bar. It
was just down the block and there was Dave holding court. We settled in
figuring it would be time to go back for the second set when the performer
headed out. The scheduled time came and went. Then Lena appeared and dragged
Van Ronk back bodily. The place had filled up but Lena let us hang out on the
back stairs to listen to the second set.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVqfX4ys4M

That\'s one of the few songs I tried to master and never succeeded even though
Van Ronk has an instructional video. My version is closer to Reverend Gary
Davis\' where Van Ronk learned it but I can\'t get his phrasing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1RIoalqKgw

When I played an instrument, it was always to sheet music. I never had
to try to mimic someone else\'s performance. Kind of like paint by the
numbers -- no room for improvisation.

I preferred brass/horns. But, very few pieces work as solos (The Lonely
Bull?)
Its one of the reasons I enjoy the Chase album mentioned upthread.

In grade school when it came time for music lessons I said \'cornet\'. The
teacher thought I said \'clarinet\'. That didn\'t last long and I switched to
flute. I have a Boehm system flute but usually stick with the six hole simple
system.

I played many different horns -- but always valved instruments (e.g.,
no trombone). Big difference between a trumpet, french horn,
baritone horn, etc. in terms of how much air you have to move
(and how heavy the damn thing is when marching!)

Most of my creative work goes into system design. I enjoy learning
about \"needs\" and coming up with ways to address them. Always
trying to see how *little* of my own \"policies\" I can impose on
the design (build mechanism, not policy).

I enjoy software design but there\'s more to life.

I apply hardware/software design skills to the various problems
I encounter in the activities in which I\'m involved. Whether it\'s
automating \"inventory\" or wiping disks or building systems, etc.
How can I leverage skills and available equipment to make this
easier or less error prone.

It also lets me try out new design approaches in a more forgiving
environment: \"Make one to throw away\"

Distinctive sound. Sort of like Janis.

I saw her in a roadhouse on the Albany-Schenectady road. Probably \'68 when she
did some east coast touring and before really taking off. It wasn\'t a prime
time venue. The stage was a raised dais on the dance floor and people were free
to wander up and leave pints of Southern Comfort.

I saw Buddy Guy in a similar venue -- but no raised stage, just a small
open space with the \"patrons\" (~50 of us) standing around and him standing
in the middle. Very intimate.

Saw Dizzy Gillespie in a similar venue.

I have a fair bit of Dylan but get tired of him really quick.
\"It all sounds the same\".

Despite not being able to remember lyrics, it\'s the lyrics that make a song for
me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y2FuDY6Q4M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Grp5oROAfBg

Different stories. Or are they? Dylan\'s is more apropos since the powers that
be still hate the Russians. Brendan Behan\'s brother Dominic write the lyrics to
the Patriot Game. Dylan probably copied Behan though at one point he said he
might have maybe heard it from Jean Redpath.

A lot of Springsteen is the same. The melodies, if not recycled, are simple
enough that they are similar but the lyrics tell the stories.

My appreciation for the Dead is for albums like Workingman\'s Dead or American
Beauty. Those 20 minute musical journeys to nowhere do nothing to me.

There\'s a lot of harmonizing on those albums instead of reliance on
instruments. \"Ripple\", in concert, is mind-blowing. EVERYONE is singing
it! And nothing beats Sugar Mags! But, I\'m a fan of Jerry songs.

Not Fade Away, as a show closer, is predictably \"audience participation\".
It\'s always interesting to see how long the audience can keep the song
going AFTER the band exits the stage!

I\'m not fond of \"Space\" or \"Drums\". But, I really enjoy the transitions
between songs -- especially in concerts (where you are the first people
hearing it so you have no idea what\'s coming next!). Carefully listening
to bass rifts or percussion changes and trying to anticipate where
its going.

Certain combinations are standard fare. E.g., China Cat into Rider.
It just fits!

I recall a show where they started song A then morphed into B after a
while. Then C. Then D. Then, *back* to C. And back to *B*. And,
finally, finished up A. It was delightful. Much more satisfying than
A, pause, B, pause, C, pause D.

Many of the studio albums seem too \"produced\". Of the classic albums,
I probably like Europe, best, as it is most suggestive of a live show.

The Movie is actually a pretty good \"treatment\" -- especially the
intro graphic and initial tunes. (I much preferred the Keith and
Donna lineup -- despite Donna\'s flat renditions -- than most of the
subsequent ones)

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPJ_VN3Iis>

Morning Dew is delightfully performed (near the very end) -- even better
than on Europe! Sure beats the 4 minute singles that were on the
\"pop\" airwaves.
 
On 08/22/2022 12:53 AM, Don Y wrote:
When I played an instrument, it was always to sheet music. I never had
to try to mimic someone else\'s performance. Kind of like paint by the
numbers -- no room for improvisation.

I\'ve gotten better at reading music but have trouble with the times.
I\'ve been trying to learn Garryowen, which is a jig. The sheet music has
a lot of triplets but damned if I can see how they go. I\'ve never been
fond of jigs and reels but have always thought I should know at least
one. The Screaming Orphans explained it all. If you can say rutabaga
rutabaga, it\'s a reel.

I saw Buddy Guy in a similar venue -- but no raised stage, just a small
open space with the \"patrons\" (~50 of us) standing around and him standing
in the middle. Very intimate.

I saw him at the Boston Tea Party. Hardly an intimate venue but I
remember him wandering around through the audience.
 
On 8/22/2022 8:05 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2022 12:53 AM, Don Y wrote:
When I played an instrument, it was always to sheet music. I never had
to try to mimic someone else\'s performance. Kind of like paint by the
numbers -- no room for improvisation.

I\'ve gotten better at reading music but have trouble with the times. I\'ve been
trying to learn Garryowen, which is a jig. The sheet music has a lot of
triplets but damned if I can see how they go. I\'ve never been fond of jigs and
reels but have always thought I should know at least one. The Screaming Orphans
explained it all. If you can say rutabaga rutabaga, it\'s a reel.

Triplets are just... triplets. Just speed up your internal clock, a bit
so you can cram an extra note in the time of two! Dunno how that relates
on a string instrument. On a valved instrument, you just pump the valves
at a slightly different rate (or tongue the mouthpiece if the same note).
It sort of becomes \"muscle memory\".

Time is something I tend to feel, not \"see\". It\'s mainly a convenience
for writing the music; you know the time based on how the music feels.
I only use the \"bars\" in sheet music to keep track of where I am,
visually, as (playing in a school band) I had to keep one eye on
the conductor so needed a way to findmy place back on the sheet music
with little glances.

Lots of pieces have weird signatures. \"The Eleven\" is 11:8 (and now
you know why it\'s called The Eleven! :> ). Often, \"St Stephen\" (12:8)
would morph into it... they just dropped a beat and, voila!

\"Playing in the Band\" is 4+2+4:8. \"Estimated Prophet\" is 7:4 but
written as alternating 4:4 and 3:4 bars. Harrison\'s \"Here Comes the Sun\"
can\'t seem to make up its mind what signature to hold. <grin>

But, each piece, somehow, *feels* like it was written correctly, regardless
of any syncopation that might creep in.

[And *that* triggered a memory: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQPLrVC8PTQ>]

If you paid attention to the bass line and percussion, in their concerts,
you could keep track of where the music was *likely* headed. Or, when it
would \"return to normalcy\" in things like \"Space\".

I saw Buddy Guy in a similar venue -- but no raised stage, just a small
open space with the \"patrons\" (~50 of us) standing around and him standing
in the middle. Very intimate.

I saw him at the Boston Tea Party. Hardly an intimate venue but I remember him
wandering around through the audience.

It was cool to be a few feet from him while he played -- with no \"security\"
in the way, etc.

Same thing with Gillespie (christ, his cheeks are amazing!). Some
performers are \"all about the music\", others are \"all about themselves\"!
 
On 08/22/2022 02:07 PM, Don Y wrote:
[And *that* triggered a memory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQPLrVC8PTQ>]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0CfElspVm8

That\'s more of my idea of syncopation. He even throws in some triplets.
That rhythm comes easy to me, this doesn\'t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vSF_svUvlo
 
On 8/22/2022 8:45 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/22/2022 02:07 PM, Don Y wrote:
[And *that* triggered a memory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQPLrVC8PTQ>]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0CfElspVm8

That\'s more of my idea of syncopation.

Sorry, my reference was just a memory throwback brought
on by the use of syncopation in a discussion re: music.
(I\'d not heard that song in at least 40 years and had
forgotten I\'d *ever* heard it! Amusing how much stuff
one can dig up with a search engine!)

He even throws in some triplets. That
rhythm comes easy to me, this doesn\'t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vSF_svUvlo

\"Comes easy/doesn\'t\" -- in terms of being able to *reproduce* it
or \"relate\" to it?

What about this? Not quite as severe?

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fQrvvlZ6YI>

Lots of tunes exploit the \"up beat\" as it adds a bit of
tension to the rendering.

I only have a prpoblem with it when the first word of a verse
occurs \"off-beat\"... it always seems too early -- until its sung.
 
On 08/23/2022 12:36 AM, Don Y wrote:
He even throws in some triplets. That rhythm comes easy to me, this
doesn\'t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vSF_svUvlo

\"Comes easy/doesn\'t\" -- in terms of being able to *reproduce* it
or \"relate\" to it?

Comes easy, not as a note by note reproduction but able to play \'in the
style of\'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X6q_1BP664

That\'s another easy one for me, again the style, and I don\'t play a set
piece that could be transcribed. Whatever feels good.

It\'s jigs and reels that I have a problem with, getting that lilt,
swing, or whatever it is. It\'s one of those things I\'ve promised myself
I\'ll do but I don\'t particularly like that genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_mP3ywamA

That\'s more like it, a nice slow air...


What about this? Not quite as severe?
 
On 8/23/2022 9:30 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 08/23/2022 12:36 AM, Don Y wrote:

He even throws in some triplets. That rhythm comes easy to me, this
doesn\'t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vSF_svUvlo

\"Comes easy/doesn\'t\" -- in terms of being able to *reproduce* it
or \"relate\" to it?

Comes easy, not as a note by note reproduction but able to play \'in the style of\'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X6q_1BP664

That\'s another easy one for me, again the style, and I don\'t play a set piece
that could be transcribed. Whatever feels good.

It\'s jigs and reels that I have a problem with, getting that lilt, swing, or
whatever it is. It\'s one of those things I\'ve promised myself I\'ll do but I
don\'t particularly like that genre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17_mP3ywamA

That\'s more like it, a nice slow air...

I\'ve opted for the easy way out -- making little black marks on a staff
and hitting \"PLAY\"; lather, rinse, repeat. It\'s absolutely AMAZING how
consistent my performances! :>

[A big part of getting older is realizing where I want to spend my time,
given that it moves at a rate considerably faster than desired!]
 

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