magnetic field

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <9cdkd15b1heb8l062kkmr0k214s6ufu55d@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> writes:

True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.

They used to fit the next size up connectors to their SLA's, from
what you'll standardly find on the same size/capacity commodity
SLA. Not sure if that's still the case.

--
Andrew Gabriel

 

I had a strange symptom of a UPS problem - the Carbon Monoxide detector
in my living room started indicating low levels (about 17ppm I think)
when it usually reads zero and there were no sources of it in the room
- the gas fire wasn't being used.

Then I noticed I was getting high temperatures inside the UPS, to a
pattern. It would run at its usual level (around +32C) for some hours,
then start rising over about half an hour, getting to about +50C, then
falling back again. I opened it up and found that the batteries were
bulging, and I had to lever them out with a crowbar!

I contacted APC who said that obviously the batteries were knackered,
but because of the swelling I should get a whole new UPS (yeah, right!
I went to MDS (on the North Circular near Edmonton, I think) and
bought the new batteries there for about a third of the APC price. I
had to do a bit of work to fit the old bits to the new batteries - they
have some plastic plates and a set of leads and connectors that
presumably would come with them from APC, and the two batteries are
stuck together to form one unit. A bit of prising and resticking of
the plates and some gaffa tape to hold the batteries together did the
job, and they've been working fine since.

This is a Smart-UPS 1400 iNet by the way, and the original batteries
lasted 5 years (APC reckon 3 years is their design life). The
batteries I fitted were the same type of Yuasa that APC use,
incidentally.

The UPS top-up charges the battery from time to time, but also does
some "maintenance" of the battery if you are using the Powerchute
software - you can schedule self-tests and "calibration" runs, and I
had the latter being done monthly, which runs it down to the "low
battery" condition then recharges it, noting the energy needed to
discharge it, so it can calculate run-time remaining.

I think the failure mode was this: The batteries were worn out, and
the top-up charge was overcharging their (reduced) capacity and the
excess energy went to heat, raising the temperature and pressure,
causing the casing to soften and bulge. Then the pressure-limiting
vents let out some of the gasses (Hydrogen and Oxygen) and that's what
my CO detector was reading. This reduced the battery capacity even
more, and lead to a downward spiral. As more electrolyte was lost, the
peak temperature during the top-up charge would have risen further and
further, but I got to it before it reached the stage of thermal
shutdown, as David's did.

If David's unit is still overheating even with new batteries, there is
obviously another problem, and maybe a case for a new unit, but if only
the old batteries overheated, new ones should solve it. Mine has been
running with the MDS-supplied batteries for about 16 months now, with
no problems (so much for APC's suggestion to replace it!

Oh, and the battery voltage has been showing 27.74V for some time
according to the logs, so I think the reading given above is perfectly
normal!

Cheers,

Howard

 

[Jeremy C B Nicoll]

In article <1121677526.998534.263490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<HDRW@H2Org.demon.co.uk> wrote:

I think the failure mode was this: ... Then the pressure-limiting
vents let out some of the gasses (Hydrogen and Oxygen) and that's what
my CO detector was reading.

Why would you think that a CO detector would be triggered by other
gases? Isn't it more likely that someing in the UPS was actually
combusting?

If David's unit is still overheating even with new batteries, there
is obviously another problem, and maybe a case for a new unit, but if
only the old batteries overheated, new ones should solve it.

Suppose the problem is in the control electronics? Putting in new
batteries will just get them wrecked.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

 

[kony]

On 17 Jul 2005 13:46:29 GMT, andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

In article <9cdkd15b1heb8l062kkmr0k214s6ufu55d@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> writes:

True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.

They used to fit the next size up connectors to their SLA's, from
what you'll standardly find on the same size/capacity commodity
SLA. Not sure if that's still the case.

Personally I'd buy the more standard battery and swap the
connectors on the APC's battery leads (with appropriate
aftermarket ones).

 

[Peter Corlett]

Jeremy C B Nicoll <Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...]

Why would you think that a CO detector would be triggered by other
gases? Isn't it more likely that someing in the UPS was actually
combusting?

It depends on the technology used to detect CO. Some actually use an
artificial haemoglobin which darkens when it binds to CO, and this is
picked up with a light sensor.

Others use tin dioxide on a ceramic base with wires running through.
This causes it to be electrically charged and attracts both O2 and CO
which both affect the resistance - a low resistance corresponds to a
high level of CO. Other molecules can be attracted and cause false
readings, but typically these don't normally appear in high enough
concentrations to make any difference so it's a reasonable test.
Besides, if it does pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't
you rather be safe than sorry?

--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key

Please contribute to the beer fund and a tidier house:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZpndc

 

[Jeremy C B Nicoll]

In article <42de3027$0$30957$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
Peter Corlett <abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk> wrote:

It depends on the technology used to detect CO... Besides, if it does
pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't you rather be safe
than sorry?

Yes, but I didn't think O was that rare, though maybe H is.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

 

[Peter Corlett]

Jeremy C B Nicoll <Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Peter Corlett <abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
It depends on the technology used to detect CO... Besides, if it
does pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't you rather
be safe than sorry?
Yes, but I didn't think O was that rare, though maybe H is.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere.

Summary: Oxygen is extremely plentiful, hydrogen is pretty rare.

--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin

 

[Aidan Grey]

On 21 Jul 2005 20:27:24 GMT, backon@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:

For an experiment, a colleague in the Toronto area urgently needs
access to an oscilloscope with realtime multiplication (e.g.
Tektronics TDS-1012, 2012, 2014 or any model with a FFT option
which would have the multiplier function in its mathematics
setting). He would be willing to pay for use.

Thanks in advance


Dr. Josh Backon
at the medical school

Toronto Surplus and Scientific on Gordon Baker Rd may be
able to supply such a unit. Or, if they don't have one, they might
know who would.

Another suppler is Electronic Surplus (??), near Lawrence and
Jane.

Aidan Grey

 

[BFoelsch]

Hmmmmm, I did not realize that the Tek models listed had a multiplication
function. They have FFT (of sorts) but no multiplication.

Or did I miss something?

<backon@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message news:2005Jul21.202724@hujicc...

For an experiment, a colleague in the Toronto area urgently needs
access to an oscilloscope with realtime multiplication (e.g.
Tektronics TDS-1012, 2012, 2014 or any model with a FFT option
which would have the multiplier function in its mathematics
setting). He would be willing to pay for use.

Thanks in advance


Dr. Josh Backon
at the medical school

 

[Mike Harrison]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:33:15 -0400, "BFoelsch" <BFoelsch@comcast.ditch.this.net> wrote:

Hmmmmm, I did not realize that the Tek models listed had a multiplication
function. They have FFT (of sorts) but no multiplication.

Or did I miss something?

backon@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message news:2005Jul21.202724@hujicc...
For an experiment, a colleague in the Toronto area urgently needs
access to an oscilloscope with realtime multiplication (e.g.
Tektronics TDS-1012, 2012, 2014 or any model with a FFT option
which would have the multiplier function in its mathematics
setting). He would be willing to pay for use.

Thanks in advance


Dr. Josh Backon
at the medical school

My HP54654D has an a*b function - I guess others in the series probably do as well.

 

In article <ncterlplorehfpn.ik36t60.pminews@news.execulink.com>, "Aidan Grey" <apgrey@nospam.con> writes:

On 21 Jul 2005 20:27:24 GMT, backon@vms.huji.ac.il wrote:

For an experiment, a colleague in the Toronto area urgently needs
access to an oscilloscope with realtime multiplication (e.g.
Tektronics TDS-1012, 2012, 2014 or any model with a FFT option
which would have the multiplier function in its mathematics
setting). He would be willing to pay for use.

Thanks in advance


Dr. Josh Backon
at the medical school





Toronto Surplus and Scientific on Gordon Baker Rd may be
able to supply such a unit. Or, if they don't have one, they might
know who would.

Another suppler is Electronic Surplus (??), near Lawrence and
Jane.

Thanks !!!!

Josh

Aidan Grey

 

[Kryten]

Those links just led to some link farm pages.

I saw links to Jewish/Christian singles, Finance, Gambling, Alcohol
recovery.

What electronic links there were led to mostly consumer electronics sales.

What a crock.

 

[Tom MacIntyre]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:13:05 GMT, "Kryten"
<kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Those links just led to some link farm pages.

I saw links to Jewish/Christian singles, Finance, Gambling, Alcohol
recovery.

What electronic links there were led to mostly consumer electronics sales.

What a crock.

What links would they be?

Tom

 

[AJH]

alan.webb@DogForAWalkblueyonder.co.uk wrote:

On 13 Jul 2005 03:57:05 -0700, "AJH" <ajhbox-3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
snip
My equivalent product would be this:
http://www.proporta.co.uk/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=635&t_mode=des
but the picture is wrong. Time to e-mail proporta again I think.
Thanks
The pictures are not always accurate. The item you linked to appears
different to the 9v adapter I have and so I would not expect it to
accept a Nokia lead.

I'm trying a different tack. Surely it must be possible to buy power
plugs and sockets for these devices (Nokia phones, Palm Zire 72) and
just make what I need?

So I want a socket that will take a Nokia charger cable and a plug that
will fit a Zire 72. Who supplies these? Anyone any ideas? Cross-posted
to sci.electronics.misc to see who knows.
The Nokia charger plug is roughly 3mm in dia and the Zire plug about
2mm, both hollow with +ve inside, -ve outside. Need socket for Nokia
and plug for Zire. Cannot find on rswww or maplin.
If you have no luck with the socket you could try what I ended up
doing with my Jabra charger when the pin broke.(Same size as Nokia)
Check out your local Poundshop for the emergency phone charger. The
adapters usually plug into a Nokia size socket which you can remove
and connect whatever plug you need for the Zire. It's not as tidy as
the other adapter but if it works for you....

HTH
Alan

OK, solved it. I bought the product you suggested, but the Zire 72

version, here:
http://www.proporta.co.uk/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=635&t_mode=des
It does indeed come with a little adaptor (really for the 9v PP3
keyring charger) that takes a Nokia phone charger output plug and
converts to the tiny Zire plug. This works fine, the Zire charges up
Ok. (as long as I use the newer, lightweight Nokia chargers, my old,
fat, square one does not charge the Zire despite claiming it has the
same voltage and similar current output).

In the set also is a USB charger and Car lighter socket to USB, so I
have many charging options now!

However all I really needed was the little adaptor I have described,
and I'd love some more, as I have Nokia chargers all over the place.

Still, as long as I don't lose it I'll be fine.
Thanks for your help.
Alan

 

[JeffM]

What a crock.
Kryten

Yup. He comes by once a month, leaves his droppings, and departs.
Veterans have learned to ignore him.

 

On 27 Jul 2005 04:27:22 -0700, "AJH" <ajhbox-3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

OK, solved it. I bought the product you suggested, but the Zire 72
version, here:
http://www.proporta.co.uk/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=635&t_mode=des
It does indeed come with a little adaptor (really for the 9v PP3
keyring charger) that takes a Nokia phone charger output plug and
converts to the tiny Zire plug. This works fine, the Zire charges up
Ok. (as long as I use the newer, lightweight Nokia chargers, my old,
fat, square one does not charge the Zire despite claiming it has the
same voltage and similar current output).

In the set also is a USB charger and Car lighter socket to USB, so I
have many charging options now!

However all I really needed was the little adaptor I have described,
and I'd love some more, as I have Nokia chargers all over the place.

Still, as long as I don't lose it I'll be fine.
Thanks for your help.
Alan
Glad you got it sorted. If you ever find somewhere to get just the

adapter let me know as the one for the Tosh e750 also fits my mp3-cd
player and a couple of other gadgets I have.


Alan
Take DogForAWalk before replying by e-mail

 

[scanner80]

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123349201.340958.142220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

...reading from a device of 1355 ohms...
Jeff (scanner80)

Posting the same question individually to multiple groups
is not only foolish (worse than linked cross-posting), it is selfish.

Those people who do not visit each of the groups
will not benefit by the intelligence of the responses at those other
groups.

Despite those folks who warn about EXCESSIVE cross-posting,
posting the same question individually to 4 groups
is a really bad approach.

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?filter=0&q=ohms-change&enc_author=OnQYWRUAAAAyzOE-dhhFNNxnTzSF4k0hZk8LRyw6Fzc364xXu3mYhA

This practice robs those people
who do not habitually visit all the groups
of the wisdom of others on the topic.
It also doesn't let everyone know
when the question has been answered sufficiently.

Most importantly, it does not allow those in 1 group
to gain from further details revealed in another group.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/afeafaf14bf3f345/4a59ccea8c81d035?q=The-device-will-use-an-opamp-circuit-to-create-the-resistances

If the query is relevant to multiple groups,
put the names of ALL the groups in which you would like it to appear
on the Groups line (the To line) THE FIRST TIME you post it.

Proper use of the Followup-To line is also useful.


Hello,

First, I want to say I'm very sorry for the multiple postings.
I did not realize I was causing a problem.
I'm kinda new to newsgroups and did not know the correct way to do it.
I also did not know there was so many helpful people out there and was just
tring to reach as many people as I could.
Also now I know to post at the end of the post , another mistake I made.
Once again I'm very sorry.

Second , I would like to thank you all very much for all your posts and
research on this project.
You have given me many great ideas.
You guys are so smart, I feel like I'm not qualified to change a 9V battery.
I work in a calibration lab calibrating Medical and test equipment. I also
do a lot of the research. I get ideas
of new ways to do things and try to work on them when time allows or at
home.
I'm not an engineer (as you could probably tell) I only have an Associates
Degree. But I do the best I can and I do alot of research on my own.

Once again THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!! . And thank for your time.
I will use your info and work out the details.

Jeff

 

[John Fields]

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:07:56 -0500, "scanner80"
<scanner80@charter.net> wrote:

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123349201.340958.142220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
...reading from a device of 1355 ohms...
Jeff (scanner80)

Posting the same question individually to multiple groups
is not only foolish (worse than linked cross-posting), it is selfish.

Those people who do not visit each of the groups
will not benefit by the intelligence of the responses at those other
groups.

Despite those folks who warn about EXCESSIVE cross-posting,
posting the same question individually to 4 groups
is a really bad approach.

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?filter=0&q=ohms-change&enc_author=OnQYWRUAAAAyzOE-dhhFNNxnTzSF4k0hZk8LRyw6Fzc364xXu3mYhA

This practice robs those people
who do not habitually visit all the groups
of the wisdom of others on the topic.
It also doesn't let everyone know
when the question has been answered sufficiently.

Most importantly, it does not allow those in 1 group
to gain from further details revealed in another group.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/afeafaf14bf3f345/4a59ccea8c81d035?q=The-device-will-use-an-opamp-circuit-to-create-the-resistances

If the query is relevant to multiple groups,
put the names of ALL the groups in which you would like it to appear
on the Groups line (the To line) THE FIRST TIME you post it.

Proper use of the Followup-To line is also useful.


Hello,
First, I want to say I'm very sorry for the multiple postings.
I did not realize I was causing a problem.
I'm kinda new to newsgroups and did not know the correct way to do it.
I also did not know there was so many helpful people out there and was just
tring to reach as many people as I could.
Also now I know to post at the end of the post , another mistake I made.
Once again I'm very sorry.

Second , I would like to thank you all very much for all your posts and
research on this project.
You have given me many great ideas.
You guys are so smart, I feel like I'm not qualified to change a 9V battery.
I work in a calibration lab calibrating Medical and test equipment. I also
do a lot of the research. I get ideas
of new ways to do things and try to work on them when time allows or at
home.
I'm not an engineer (as you could probably tell) I only have an Associates
Degree. But I do the best I can and I do alot of research on my own.

Once again THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!! . And thank for your time.
I will use your info and work out the details.

Jeff

---
What details???

I don't know how to say this without being insulting, but if I was
in a hospital and being monitored by instruments which you were
supposed to be responsible for, I'd be in fear for my life. How has
it come to pass that you, who has less than a rudimentary knowledge
of even basic electronic circuitry, can be relied upon to perform
calibration on equipment which is critical to the maintenance of
human life?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[scanner80]

Wow, you are something of a butthead aren't you?
I don't cal the equipment used on patients. I cal the test equipment . I
have been to many oem training classes and (here is the key thing ) I follow
a cal procedure.
Duh! If you know anything about calibration ,you would know you need a
calibration procedure. You seem like you did not know that. I forgive you.
I do know about the equipment used in hospitals and the biomeds who use
them. While the majority of them are good. I have seen things that would
scare the h*ll out of you.
My advise ? STAY HEALTHY!
Once again, for all you good and nice people that offered advise in good
faith , THANK YOU!
Jeff
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:tfjaf1dm0mp1p68r05rcu00sp1od421us2@4ax.com...

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:07:56 -0500, "scanner80"
scanner80@charter.net> wrote:


"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123349201.340958.142220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
...reading from a device of 1355 ohms...
Jeff (scanner80)

Posting the same question individually to multiple groups
is not only foolish (worse than linked cross-posting), it is selfish.

Those people who do not visit each of the groups
will not benefit by the intelligence of the responses at those other
groups.

Despite those folks who warn about EXCESSIVE cross-posting,
posting the same question individually to 4 groups
is a really bad approach.


http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?filter=0&q=ohms-change&enc_author=OnQY
WRUAAAAyzOE-dhhFNNxnTzSF4k0hZk8LRyw6Fzc364xXu3mYhA

This practice robs those people
who do not habitually visit all the groups
of the wisdom of others on the topic.
It also doesn't let everyone know
when the question has been answered sufficiently.

Most importantly, it does not allow those in 1 group
to gain from further details revealed in another group.


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/threa
d/afeafaf14bf3f345/4a59ccea8c81d035?q=The-device-will-use-an-opamp-circuit-t

o-create-the-resistances

If the query is relevant to multiple groups,
put the names of ALL the groups in which you would like it to appear
on the Groups line (the To line) THE FIRST TIME you post it.

Proper use of the Followup-To line is also useful.


Hello,
First, I want to say I'm very sorry for the multiple postings.
I did not realize I was causing a problem.
I'm kinda new to newsgroups and did not know the correct way to do it.
I also did not know there was so many helpful people out there and was
just
tring to reach as many people as I could.
Also now I know to post at the end of the post , another mistake I made.
Once again I'm very sorry.

Second , I would like to thank you all very much for all your posts and
research on this project.
You have given me many great ideas.
You guys are so smart, I feel like I'm not qualified to change a 9V
battery.
I work in a calibration lab calibrating Medical and test equipment. I
also
do a lot of the research. I get ideas
of new ways to do things and try to work on them when time allows or at
home.
I'm not an engineer (as you could probably tell) I only have an
Associates
Degree. But I do the best I can and I do alot of research on my own.

Once again THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!! . And thank for your time.
I will use your info and work out the details.

Jeff

---
What details???

I don't know how to say this without being insulting, but if I was
in a hospital and being monitored by instruments which you were
supposed to be responsible for, I'd be in fear for my life. How has
it come to pass that you, who has less than a rudimentary knowledge
of even basic electronic circuitry, can be relied upon to perform
calibration on equipment which is critical to the maintenance of
human life?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer

 

[Martin Riddle]

Now I know why those instruments that we send out for cal, come back wacky.
We make it a pracitce, for new equipment, to hang on as long as possible with out sending the thing in for cal.

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message news:tfjaf1dm0mp1p68r05rcu00sp1od421us2@4ax.com...

On Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:07:56 -0500, "scanner80"
scanner80@charter.net> wrote:


"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1123349201.340958.142220@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
...reading from a device of 1355 ohms...
Jeff (scanner80)

Posting the same question individually to multiple groups
is not only foolish (worse than linked cross-posting), it is selfish.

Those people who do not visit each of the groups
will not benefit by the intelligence of the responses at those other
groups.

Despite those folks who warn about EXCESSIVE cross-posting,
posting the same question individually to 4 groups
is a really bad approach.

http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?filter=0&q=ohms-change&enc_author=OnQYWRUAAAAyzOE-dhhFNNxnTzSF4k0hZk8LRyw6Fzc364xXu3mYhA

This practice robs those people
who do not habitually visit all the groups
of the wisdom of others on the topic.
It also doesn't let everyone know
when the question has been answered sufficiently.

Most importantly, it does not allow those in 1 group
to gain from further details revealed in another group.


http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.basics/browse_frm/thread/afeafaf14bf3f345/4a59ccea8c81d035?q=The-device-will-us
e-an-opamp-circuit-to-create-the-resistances

If the query is relevant to multiple groups,
put the names of ALL the groups in which you would like it to appear
on the Groups line (the To line) THE FIRST TIME you post it.

Proper use of the Followup-To line is also useful.


Hello,
First, I want to say I'm very sorry for the multiple postings.
I did not realize I was causing a problem.
I'm kinda new to newsgroups and did not know the correct way to do it.
I also did not know there was so many helpful people out there and was just
tring to reach as many people as I could.
Also now I know to post at the end of the post , another mistake I made.
Once again I'm very sorry.

Second , I would like to thank you all very much for all your posts and
research on this project.
You have given me many great ideas.
You guys are so smart, I feel like I'm not qualified to change a 9V battery.
I work in a calibration lab calibrating Medical and test equipment. I also
do a lot of the research. I get ideas
of new ways to do things and try to work on them when time allows or at
home.
I'm not an engineer (as you could probably tell) I only have an Associates
Degree. But I do the best I can and I do alot of research on my own.

Once again THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH!! . And thank for your time.
I will use your info and work out the details.

Jeff

---
What details???

I don't know how to say this without being insulting, but if I was
in a hospital and being monitored by instruments which you were
supposed to be responsible for, I'd be in fear for my life. How has
it come to pass that you, who has less than a rudimentary knowledge
of even basic electronic circuitry, can be relied upon to perform
calibration on equipment which is critical to the maintenance of
human life?

--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer