magnetic field

Jim Thompson · Jul 10, 2005

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:00:06 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:41:21 +0000, Guy Macon
_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

Oh, wait. Guy Macon has me plonkfiled, so he doesn't have to hear
any rebuttal from me.

No I don't. Do you wish me to?

That's a hell of a way to run an engineering business - close
oneself off to feedback.

Sophmoric namecalling is not feedback. It's noise injected into
the feedback loop.

---

It _is_ feedback, but not feedback which a freshman could be expected
to appreciate.

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

keith · Jul 11, 2005

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:03:32 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:00:06 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:41:21 +0000, Guy Macon
_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

Oh, wait. Guy Macon has me plonkfiled, so he doesn't have to hear
any rebuttal from me.

No I don't. Do you wish me to?

That's a hell of a way to run an engineering business - close
oneself off to feedback.

Sophmoric namecalling is not feedback. It's noise injected into
the feedback loop.

---

It _is_ feedback, but not feedback which a freshman could be expected
to appreciate.

Of course not... after all it is SOPHOMORIC ;-)

Come on Jim! Everyone knows a sophomore is older and wiser than a
freshman. After all, "sophomore" == sophisticated moron.

--

Keith

Jim Thompson · Jul 11, 2005

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:25:17 -0400, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:03:32 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:00:06 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:41:21 +0000, Guy Macon
_see.web.page_@_www.guymacon.com_> wrote:

Rich Grise wrote:

Oh, wait. Guy Macon has me plonkfiled, so he doesn't have to hear
any rebuttal from me.

No I don't. Do you wish me to?

That's a hell of a way to run an engineering business - close
oneself off to feedback.

Sophmoric namecalling is not feedback. It's noise injected into
the feedback loop.

---

It _is_ feedback, but not feedback which a freshman could be expected
to appreciate.

Of course not... after all it is SOPHOMORIC ;-)

Come on Jim! Everyone knows a sophomore is older and wiser than a
freshman. After all, "sophomore" == sophisticated moron.

Duh! The comments were SOPHOMORIC and directed at a FROSH... get it
?

480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax

ehsjr · Jul 11, 2005

Winfield Hill wrote:

ehsjr wrote...

Guy Macon wrote:

Google Envy... That's a good one! Maybe he's like Larkin,
intimidated by his technical and social superiors.

On your best day, you might consider yourself to be lucky
if you were 1/10th of Larkin on his worst.

Yes, agreed. But to be taken more as a very well-earned and
well-deserved compliment to John than a slam to Guy.

*Exactly*

Ed

Terry Given · Jul 11, 2005

Pig Bladder wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 08:58:23 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On 9 Jul 2005 07:44:47 -0700, rgregoryclark@yahoo.com wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 7 Jul 2005 10:22:15 -0700, rgregoryclark@yahoo.com wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 6 Jul 2005 21:07:52 -0700, rgregoryclark@yahoo.com wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

...
Suppose you had a light, high-voltage, high-current power supply. You
connect one power supply terminal to the lifter body. Where do you
connect the other?

John

This page shows construction of a lifter:

How to build an HexaLifter for your experiments.
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/lifters/hexalifter/index.htm

One lead from the power supply is connected to wires at the top of the
lifter. The other lead is connected to metal foil at the bottom. You
have insulators separating the wires from the foil. Then the air
between the wires and foil serves as a dielectric for a capacitor. The
asymmetric geometry of the two sides of the capacitor, the wires
compared to the flat metal foil, causes a flow of ions from one to the
other.

Bob Clark

But that's not the way the hexalifter is wired. External (grounded)
+HV is run through a wire from the power supply to the upper wire
array, and no connection is made to the foil thingie.

If you did make an unthethered lifter, with no return current path to
ground, its ion emission would quickly build up a huge net potential
on the whole structure. Has anybody ever got this to work?

There's a much more efficient way to convert electrical energy to
lift; a helicopter rotor.

John

Perhaps the second wire connection is not visible on that page, but
all lifters are made in this same way. See for example this page:

The hexlifter page says that one wire supplies hv to the lifter's
upper wire array, and that it "is maintained with three thin nylon
wires to the styrofoam base plate" which doesn't sound conductive to
me.

So the single uplink wire replentishes the charge lost by creating
ions. If you float the power supply onboard, and still eject ions, a
huge charge will quickly build up on the structure.

Has anybody ever built a self-powered, unthethered lifter?

John

John, I really don't see why you're arging this point.

Because I'm an engineer.

The "thin nylon
wires" are used to hold the lifter in place so it won't fly away. They
are not the conducting wires for the power supply. Lots of amateurs
have made lifters with no tethers: they usually fly up far enough to
disconnect the power supply wires or damage the lifter.

But can they fly with *no* wires?

Yeah, it's sounding to me like, "Put up or shut up" time. Hell, if
I'm allowed to use an extension cord, I can fly a fuckin Muffin fan. ;-)

Lol. The only problem with hiking is the weight of the extension cord.....

Cheers
Terry

Bob Stephens · Jul 11, 2005

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:43:28 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 20:52:32 -0400, Boris Mohar
borism_-void-_@sympatico.ca> wrote:

Here is a hint:
http://www.geocities.com/sgraessle/folder1/incomp.htm

I find the psychology of design to be fascinating, and too little
studied.

Arrogance: On one day, you have to stand in front of a bunch of
customers or fellow engineers and state calmly and confidently that
you can certainly fit 16 channels of whatever ghastly thing onto a 6U
Eurocard, meet insane specs, and deliver in three months for $200 a
channel.

Discipline: now you have to design it, manage all the tradeoffs, cram
it onto the board, and not screw up, because there's no time for a
respin.

Fear and paranoia: after it's on paper, and you're about to etch
boards, you have to question the sanity and competance of the morons
who designed it; you just know that these guys made a half-dozen
stupid, fatal mistakes.

Despair: when you occasionally do find a fatal mistake, and before you
come up with a work-around.

One key to success is to accurately gauge one's own incompetance, and
to take carefully calibrated risks in only the situations that demand
it.

John

Don't forget
Elation: When the dammned thing finally works and you think you may
actually get paid!

Bob

Spehro Pefhany · Jul 11, 2005

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:45:35 -0700, the renowned Bob Stephens
<roberts@dcxchol.com> wrote:

Don't forget
Elation: When the dammned thing finally works and you think you may
actually get paid!

Bob

I've not experienced that for the last decade or so. It's the people
around me who say "you mean, it's done!" let's go celebrate. <sigh>

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Jul 11, 2005

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:43:21 +0000, Guy Macon

Nope, Google is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Why do people keep harping on this inferior technology? The buzzword
that makes the dictionary is supposed to be Yahoo, not Google! You
don't "Google" something, you "Yahoo" it! People! Get your icons
straight!

Google sucks as a search engine and has always been run around circles
by Yahoo. The only good use for Google is its USENET archive.

Spehro Pefhany · Jul 11, 2005

On 11 Jul 2005 12:59:13 -0700, the renowned markwh04@yahoo.com wrote:

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 21:43:21 +0000, Guy Macon
Nope, Google is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

Why do people keep harping on this inferior technology? The buzzword
that makes the dictionary is supposed to be Yahoo, not Google! You
don't "Google" something, you "Yahoo" it! People! Get your icons
straight!

Google sucks as a search engine and has always been run around circles
by Yahoo. The only good use for Google is its USENET archive.

I don't think Google has improved dejanews at all. As a search engine,
Google is pretty good, although dependent on the skill of the person
forming the query and it is sensitive to deliberate attempts to fool
it.

Google Earth is kind of cool. Froogle is pretty useless so far, and
Desktop search is only of limited use due to a stupid limitation on
the total number of files indexed.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

exxos · Jul 11, 2005

"Rich Grise" <richgrise@example.net> wrote in message
news

an.2005.07.10.16.21.54.18547@example.net...

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:35:05 -0500, Jim Douglas wrote:

Sounds like you may have some "google envy", whereas another individual
shows up more on google that you do! WTF, who cares, get over it!

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Rich+Grise%22&btnG=Search
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?q=%22Rich%20Grise%22&num=50&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wg

Cheers!
Rich

Now theres someone with a real problem ;-) lol

Chris

AJH · Jul 13, 2005

alan.webb@DogForAWalkblueyonder.co.uk wrote:

On 8 Jul 2005 02:33:47 -0700, "AJH" <ajhbox-3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Alan
It's actually the 9v charger. It takes a 9v pp3 battery but the
adapter that plugs in to the pda can be unplugged from the main body
and will accept the standard nokia charger. You'd have to buy the
whole thing as I doubt the adapter is available as a separate item.
The adapter for my Tosh steps up from Nokia's 3.5mm?(female) to the
slightly larger Toshiba male. From the look of the above link though
it may plug into the sync port for your Zire.

OK.
Actually the product you provided a link to is for the old-style
"Universal Palm COnnector" which is now not so universal.
My equivalent product would be this:
http://www.proporta.co.uk/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=635&t_mode=des
but the picture is wrong. Time to e-mail proporta again I think.
Thanks
The pictures are not always accurate. The item you linked to appears
different to the 9v adapter I have and so I would not expect it to
accept a Nokia lead.

I'm trying a different tack. Surely it must be possible to buy power
plugs and sockets for these devices (Nokia phones, Palm Zire 72) and
just make what I need?

So I want a socket that will take a Nokia charger cable and a plug that
will fit a Zire 72. Who supplies these? Anyone any ideas? Cross-posted
to sci.electronics.misc to see who knows.
The Nokia charger plug is roughly 3mm in dia and the Zire plug about
2mm, both hollow with +ve inside, -ve outside. Need socket for Nokia
and plug for Zire. Cannot find on rswww or maplin.

exxos · Jul 13, 2005

http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/pictures/google.jpg

Jul 13, 2005

On 13 Jul 2005 03:57:05 -0700, "AJH" <ajhbox-3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

My equivalent product would be this:
http://www.proporta.co.uk/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=635&t_mode=des
but the picture is wrong. Time to e-mail proporta again I think.
Thanks
The pictures are not always accurate. The item you linked to appears
different to the 9v adapter I have and so I would not expect it to
accept a Nokia lead.

I'm trying a different tack. Surely it must be possible to buy power
plugs and sockets for these devices (Nokia phones, Palm Zire 72) and
just make what I need?

So I want a socket that will take a Nokia charger cable and a plug that
will fit a Zire 72. Who supplies these? Anyone any ideas? Cross-posted
to sci.electronics.misc to see who knows.
The Nokia charger plug is roughly 3mm in dia and the Zire plug about
2mm, both hollow with +ve inside, -ve outside. Need socket for Nokia
and plug for Zire. Cannot find on rswww or maplin.
If you have no luck with the socket you could try what I ended up

doing with my Jabra charger when the pin broke.(Same size as Nokia)
Check out your local Poundshop for the emergency phone charger. The
adapters usually plug into a Nokia size socket which you can remove
and connect whatever plug you need for the Zire. It's not as tidy as
the other adapter but if it works for you....

HTH
Alan
Take DogForAWalk before replying by e-mail

AJH · Jul 15, 2005

AJH wrote:

AJH wrote:
As per original Message-ID:
1115389973.994583.123800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
I'm still looking for this code, or another option. Sky and Asda have
been no help. Is my only option a learning remote?

Incidentally I have a Palm Zire 72 and I can get hold of an IR monitor
and capture the IR codes being generated by the genuine remote, could I
look these up anywhere?

Alan "2 remotes".

Pacific PVTV361 (tv/vcr combi from Asda) remote code needed.
Anyone got this yet?
It's all gone quiet. Any ideas?

Sorry to harp on, but someone else must have this TV and also Sky (or
One4All...)
Thanks
Alan

David Mahon · Jul 16, 2005

In article <57c45bb48baced97e101537e48a3b933@localhost>,
No.Sp@m.here.please writes

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, David Mahon wrote:

In article <a7cc7a5ad0474fef6fcf08b81c546bb4@localhost>,
No.Sp@m.here.please writes

The highest temperature I've recorded on the UPS is 42. ISTR that when

Previously the highest I recorded was around 45, which it would reach at
about 6pm on a hot day (30 degrees plus).

Same here and no air con (just opening/closing windows).

For the past week, the temperature has got steadily higher and then
rocketed in the last 2 days.

My batteries will need relacing before too much longer as they're now
almost 7 years old. I'll be keeping a close eye on things when I do that!

supplying load the temperature of the UPS actually falls. Have you tried
refitting the old batteries to see if the symptoms remain?

No, don't have them anymore.

Oh well. Whilst it sounds like the replacement batteries caused the fault,
they could have caused damage to the rest of the unit. Maybe you could
raise an issue with the battery supplier?

Looking back through my mail archives (I ordered them online) I see I
replaced them in October last year. It's not like I just replaced them.

Hopefully the automatic shutdown is done to prevent further problems and
the temperature (70 degrees centigrade) is selected because of that.

What I don't know is if the shutdown of the unit also shuts down the
charging or if it just turns off the power outlets. If the charging
continues, the temperature may continue to rise (it certainly hadn't
fallen much, if at all (from 70 degrees C) in the three hours it had
been turned off before I found it, unplugged it, opened it, removed the
batteries and threw them into the garden.

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

Anyway, as this is getting a bit off topic here, and to perhaps get any
further input, I'll crosspost to sci.electronics.misc,alt.comp.hardware
and uk.comp.misc.
--
David Mahon

Bob Eager · Jul 16, 2005

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

--
Bob Eager

Bob Eager · Jul 16, 2005

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

--
Bob Eager

David Mahon · Jul 16, 2005

In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-21yYq7dpEZTu@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, Bob Eager
<rde42@spamcop.net> writes

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

I bought Yuasa at a 1/3 of the price APC charged for their cells. When I
opened up my UPS to fit them, guess what APC had fitted at the factory.
Yep - the exact same Yuasa cells, the only difference being the letters
APC stamped on the grey plastic (along with all the regular Yuasa
branding/markings).
--
David Mahon

Jul 17, 2005

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, Bob Eager wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

Excellent. Thanks for the info, guys. I notice my UPS does a load run for
about 10 seconds once a week but this has had no effect on the quoted
runtime figure and the runtime has only changed (reduced) since we had
a 15 minutes powercut. I really should do a complete run-to-flat operation
to see how mich capacity the batteries really have.

kony · Jul 17, 2005

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:41:40 +0100, David Mahon
<news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

I bought Yuasa at a 1/3 of the price APC charged for their cells. When I
opened up my UPS to fit them, guess what APC had fitted at the factory.
Yep - the exact same Yuasa cells, the only difference being the letters
APC stamped on the grey plastic (along with all the regular Yuasa
branding/markings).

True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.

magnetic field

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