Looking For Usable Multimeter - Cheap

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article <ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.
Click to expand...

When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
On 2/25/2011 9:19 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.


As long as you don't have to set something to an exact value. Too
many years in TV Broadcast& Aerospace where you had to be able to set
something to less than a 1 mV error at 15 V. :(
Click to expand...
Well, that's what the FLuke bench DMMs are for. ;-)

Jeff
 
Jeffrey Angus wrote:
On 2/25/2011 9:19 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 2/25/2011 4:10 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I prefer a good bench meter, and always found meters with bargraphs
to be very annoying. They don't have enough resolution for the work I
need a DVM for. For some jobs I've had to use a 5&3/4 digit DVM.

For a simple "Is it more or less?" Nothing beats a DC
coupled scope. If you're tuning for a maximum (or
minimum) you can easily see that out of the corner of
your eye with out having to take your eyes off your
fingers or the end of the tool you're adjusting things
with.


As long as you don't have to set something to an exact value. Too
many years in TV Broadcast& Aerospace where you had to be able to set
something to less than a 1 mV error at 15 V. :(



Well, that's what the Fluke bench DMMs are for. ;-)
Click to expand...

Actually some were HP 5+3/4 digit with IEEE-488 interface to verify
calibration.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
In article <V9SdnShGi7c67PXQnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside are
wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new analog
meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle
movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.
Click to expand...

When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.
Click to expand...
Thought the question was about the spec for a basic DVM?

As regards a bargraph being 'visual noise' that's the whole point. It
draws your attention to the direction and rate of change. If you're using
'30 pieces of test equipment' at once, you can't possibly read them all
accurately at any one point in time - so a bargraph sounds to me even more
useful here.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 
This discussion reminds me of the article on digital voltmeters in
"Electronics World" about 50 years ago.

Back then, they were huge, taking up (if I recall correctly) a 3U or 4U
space. The meter they described was a Non-Linear Systems model. Its ADC was
electromechanical, (!) using a relay-controlled voltage divider on a
highly-accurate voltage source to create successively closer approximations
to the input voltage.

There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the results were
displayed using incandescent lamps to side-illuminate numbers cut into
polycarbonate blocks! (I don't know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)
 
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article <V9SdnShGi7c67PXQnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside are
wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new analog
meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle
movement.

A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.

It's there to inform. Of course information may well annoy you. And I
consider my Fluke quite decent.

When you're at a bench with over 30 pieces of test equipment,
including four or more identical DVMs the bargraph is just more visual
noise.

Thought the question was about the spec for a basic DVM?

As regards a bargraph being 'visual noise' that's the whole point. It
draws your attention to the direction and rate of change. If you're using
'30 pieces of test equipment' at once, you can't possibly read them all
accurately at any one point in time - so a bargraph sounds to me even more
useful here.
Click to expand...

Maybe, if you want to be distracted. I was testing modules in
$20,000 to $80,000 (US) telemetry receiving systems. The 'Video
Combiner' module compared the linear 0-5V AGC buss in two receivers, and
was allowed an error of under 1.5 mV.

I wouldn't use any meter with one on my bench, but some techs wanted
them even though they were useless. They also clutter their benches with
piles of other useless crap. Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give
useful indication when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage
being measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts per
division. The bargraph driver is noisy enough that the display is
unstable at the boundaries, and some are used with an overlap to reduce
flicker. it does this by dithering the reference voltage.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
William Sommerwerck wrote:
This discussion reminds me of the article on digital voltmeters in
"Electronics World" about 50 years ago.

Back then, they were huge, taking up (if I recall correctly) a 3U or 4U
space. The meter they described was a Non-Linear Systems model. Its ADC was
electromechanical, (!) using a relay-controlled voltage divider on a
highly-accurate voltage source to create successively closer approximations
to the input voltage.

There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the results were
displayed using incandescent lamps to side-illuminate numbers cut into
polycarbonate blocks! (I don't know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)
Click to expand...

HP made a voltmeter plugin for their 5245L frequency counter. That
was mid '60s vintage.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give useful indication
when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage being
measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts
per division.
Click to expand...
I think it's rather finer than that. (My Fluke 87 has 51 points.) But no one
(that I know of) makes a DVM with that can display millivolt changes when
the input is hundreds of millivolts.

The purpose of the bargraph is to give the tech an easily interpreted
indication of which way the measurement is tending, without having to
"interpret" the numbers. And it responds much more quickly than the display
can settle.

I have little need for the bargraph display. But it adds little to the cost
of the meter, and it's there when I do.
 
There were no commercial LED displays, of course, so the
results were displayed using incandescent lamps to side-
illuminate numbers cut into polycarbonate blocks! (I don't
know why NLS didn't use Nixie tubes.)

HP made a voltmeter plugin for their 5245L frequency counter.
That was mid '60s vintage.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I had an SWTP modular unit, though that was a lot later.

The NLS appeared earlier, I believe. George Kay (as in Kaypro) is given
credit for the first digital voltmeter.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <20110223-162100.250.0@news.astraweb.com>,
Peabody <waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
Click to expand...

Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.
 
Shaun wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <20110223-162100.250.0@news.astraweb.com>,
Peabody <waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.
Click to expand...

God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
William Sommerwerck wrote:
Tell me of ANY bargraph that will give useful indication
when the change is in millivolts, where the voltage being
measured is 5 to 15 volts. The bargraph would be 2 volts
per division.

I think it's rather finer than that. (My Fluke 87 has 51 points.) But no one
(that I know of) makes a DVM with that can display millivolt changes when
the input is hundreds of millivolts.

The purpose of the bargraph is to give the tech an easily interpreted
indication of which way the measurement is tending, without having to
"interpret" the numbers. And it responds much more quickly than the display
can settle.

I have little need for the bargraph display. But it adds little to the cost
of the meter, and it's there when I do.
Click to expand...

I used meters like a Boonton 9200, a Fluke 8920A and several 4.5
digit or better general purpose DVMs. The signal generators and
frequency counters were all connected to the in house 10 MHz frequency
standard and we had an in house metrology lab.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:aPOdnbQ2UolB_PTQnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
Shaun wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article <20110223-162100.250.0@news.astraweb.com>,
Peabody <waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com> wrote:
There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
information that a digital readout doesn't easily
communicate.

I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?

A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.


A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.


God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.
Click to expand...

And Good is spelled with two "O"s
 
Per Shaun:
God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.

And Good is spelled with two "O"s
Click to expand...
----------------------------------------
Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.

Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.

As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.

Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.
----------------------------------------
--
PeteCresswell
 
Shaun wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
news:aPOdnbQ2UolB_PTQnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
?
? Shaun wrote:
??
?? "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
?? news:ipCdnVVbGqQnmvXQnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@earthlink.com...
?? ?
?? ? "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? In article ?20110223-162100.250.0@news.astraweb.com?,
?? ?? Peabody ?waybackNO746SPAM44@yahoo.com? wrote:
?? ?? ? ? There's a bi-monthly swap meet near me for computer
?? ?? ? ? stuff, etc. that has old voltmeters (analog too!). They
?? ?? ? ? are mostly returns that somebody blew the fuse in and
?? ?? ? ? returned. Watching a needle move *can* give useful
?? ?? ? ? information that a digital readout doesn't easily
?? ?? ? ? communicate.
?? ??
?? ?? ? I agree. I use mine all the time, but the contacts inside
?? ?? ? are wearing out. Where would you find an inexpensive new
?? ?? ? analog meter? Do they even make them anymore?
?? ??
?? ?? A half decent DVM will have a a bargraph to mimic a needle movement.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? A decent DVM won't have a bargraph to annoy you.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? --
?? ? You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
?? ? Teflon coated.
?? ?
??
?? Fluke meters have a bar graph and I find it usefull.
?
?
? God for you. I never have. BTW, it's spelled useful, with one 'l'.

And Good is spelled with two "O"s
Click to expand...

I never claim to be perfect.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
In article <U9ednZqye5aIv_bQnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
I never claim to be perfect.
Click to expand...
Just as well. ;-)

--
*If a thing is worth doing, wouldn't it have been done already?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ?U9ednZqye5aIv_bQnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@earthlink.com?,
Michael A. Terrell ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote:
? I never claim to be perfect.

Just as well. ;-)
Click to expand...

When someone claims to be perfect, I ask to see the nail holes.


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
 
On 2/28/2011 11:51 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ?U9ednZqye5aIv_bQnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@earthlink.com?,
Michael A. Terrell ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote:

? I never claim to be perfect.

Just as well. ;-)

When someone claims to be perfect, I ask to see the nail holes.
Click to expand...
Ha!

Your one-line responses are generally annoying, but this one's a zinger!


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet
 
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got a Micronta that's getting weird on me. Thing must be
30 years old, but it always did what little I needed of it:

- Checking automobile battery voltages

- Checking various other batteries' voltages

- Looking for shorts


Can anybody recommend a replacement that doesn't cost an arm and
a leg?

I'm thinking hardware-store quality is going tb adequate, but
don't know the ins and outs.
Click to expand...
You can get them at Wal-Mart for around $12.99. Just be aware though,
that Sitre Magana can be hanging out at Wal-Mart and could think that
he's still at the Post Office.

LV
--


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