Looking for this switch (Midas Venice solo switch)

Eeyore · Sep 7, 2008

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

They are pcb vertical mount types, i.e. the control surface is a series
of large flat double sided boards. From appearance I guessed the
switches to be ALPS but the German parts list gives the following
reference as best as I can decode it.

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

It's a latching type btw.

Any help sourcing same would be appreciated. I only need 2 but knowing
this beast one or two more might pack up !

Thanks, Graham

Franc Zabkar · Sep 7, 2008

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:57:12 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Franc Zabkar · Sep 7, 2008

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:18:55 +1000, Franc Zabkar
<fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> put finger to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:57:12 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

http://www.babylon.com/definition/Tastschalter/English

Tastschalter

n. push button, press button, electric switch that operates via a
pressing

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Eeyore · Sep 7, 2008

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

That sounds very likely indeed.

I'd imagined SCHALTER might be the brand but that puts a new light on
it. However browsing the ALPS website which I took to be the best bet, I
couldn't find any 4 pole switches of that style. Maybe I'll look again.

Many thanks anyway.

Graham

Eeyore · Sep 7, 2008

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Franc Zabkar put finger to keyboard and composed:
Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

http://www.babylon.com/definition/Tastschalter/English

Tastschalter

n. push button, press button, electric switch that operates via a
pressing

Indeed it is.

Graham

Eeyore · Sep 7, 2008

Soundhaspriority wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

They are pcb vertical mount types, i.e. the control surface is a series
of large flat double sided boards. From appearance I guessed the
switches to be ALPS but the German parts list gives the following
reference as best as I can decode it.

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

It's a latching type btw.

Any help sourcing same would be appreciated. I only need 2 but knowing
this beast one or two more might pack up !

Thanks, Graham

I have a bunch of finds, none of which may be relevant, but I pass them on
to you. The most interesting is
http://www.henri-electronic.de/start.php?P_989.php, which depicts a
bat-handle Schalter 4XUM.

Nope, none of those. That's when consoles had 'real' switches instead of using
consumer parts ! You'll find those on my first home-made desk.

Have a look at the below link. From what I gather, the actual brand is
"Schalter", which is owned by Assmann. "Tast" is German for "test", which I
suppose is actually a colloquial expression of a function, I don't know
what.

Page down. Besides the DIP switches, there is a type called a "taster."
http://www.bimel.com.tr/urun/pdf/assmann/elkcomp/08-assmann-wsw-ec-switches.pdf

Those are the small low profile tact(ile) switches. This one is much taller.

Also, google for "SCHALTER 4XUM"

No luck with that other than blind alleys.

From Franc's comments I'm thinking again it may be more likely to be an ALPS part
that I didn't see in the online catalogue. Midas do make a point of using ALPS
parts.

Graham

Boris Lau · Sep 7, 2008

Soundhaspriority schrieb:

Have a look at the below link. From what I gather, the actual brand is
"Schalter", which is owned by Assmann. "Tast" is German for "test", which I
suppose is actually a colloquial expression of a function, I don't know
what.

Schalter means switch. "Tast" is most probably an abbreviation for
"Taster", which is a switch that closes (or opens) the connection only
as long as you push it, rather than making the connection until you push
it again. What would be the English term for that kind of switch?

The German word for "test" is "test" as well.

Best from Germany ;-)
Boris

--
http://www.borislau.de - computer science, music, photos

Eeyore · Sep 7, 2008

Boris Lau wrote:

Soundhaspriority schrieb:
Have a look at the below link. From what I gather, the actual brand is
"Schalter", which is owned by Assmann. "Tast" is German for "test", which I
suppose is actually a colloquial expression of a function, I don't know
what.

Schalter means switch. "Tast" is most probably an abbreviation for
"Taster", which is a switch that closes (or opens) the connection only
as long as you push it, rather than making the connection until you push
it again. What would be the English term for that kind of switch?

Momentary as opposed to latching.

But this is actually a latching switch. Maybe I selected the wrong part number.

Graham

Boris Lau · Sep 7, 2008

Eeyore wrote:

But this is actually a latching switch. Maybe I selected the wrong part number.

Let me know if you need more German assistance ;-)

Boris

Jamie · Sep 7, 2008

Boris Lau wrote:

Soundhaspriority schrieb:

Have a look at the below link. From what I gather, the actual brand is
"Schalter", which is owned by Assmann. "Tast" is German for "test",
which I suppose is actually a colloquial expression of a function, I
don't know what.

Schalter means switch. "Tast" is most probably an abbreviation for
"Taster", which is a switch that closes (or opens) the connection only
as long as you push it, rather than making the connection until you push
it again. What would be the English term for that kind of switch?

The German word for "test" is "test" as well.

Best from Germany ;-)
Boris

Momentary ?

That is a switch you must hold and will release (off) when you left go.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Franc Zabkar · Sep 7, 2008

On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 09:50:03 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> put finger to keyboard and
composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Franc Zabkar put finger to keyboard and composed:
Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

http://www.babylon.com/definition/Tastschalter/English

Tastschalter

n. push button, press button, electric switch that operates via a
pressing

Indeed it is.

Graham

After some searching, it appears that the term "4xUM" is often
associated with relays.

I now believe that "UM" is an abbreviation for "umschaltung" which
translates to "changeover".

See http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Umschaltung.html

So 4xUM = 4PCO = 4PDT, ie you have a pushbutton switch with 4 pole
changeover contacts. But of course you already knew that from the
outset ...

BTW, my favourite switch lubricant/cleaner is Philips 390CCS.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Jamie · Sep 7, 2008

Phil Allison wrote:

"Eeysore"

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!

Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
flood of it mind you.

Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....

..... Phil ;-)

WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.

Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.

Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces and
allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from the
switch action, erosion sets in.

For proper restoration, switch contacts and surface ways need to
be polished and optionally copper antioxidant applied as used in
wire drawing operations.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Ross Herbert · Sep 8, 2008

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:46:23 +1000, "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

:
:"Jamie" = Maynard A. Philbrook, KA1LPA
:
:A radio ham & demented coder scribbler by trade.
:
:> Phil Allison:
:>>
:>>
:>> ** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!
:>>
:>> Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
:>> flood of it mind you.
:>>
:>> Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....
:>>
:>
:>> ..... Phil ;-)
:>
:>>
:> WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.
:
:
:** WD40 residue is ordinary light oil - whether it evaporates depends on
:ambient temperature and local air flow.

WD40 MSDS
http://www.wd40.com.au/msds/ChemWatch%20MSDS%20WD-40_Aerosol.pdf

Certainly no fish oil in that lot. It is almost entirely petroleum based.

See http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/cdl/2005/1404.html
QUOTE
white spirit type 0;
CAS 64742 88 7, EC# 265 191 7.
Substance Name under ECB Annex 1 "Solvent naphtha (petroleum),
medium aliph. Straight run kerosine".
UNQUOTE

The secondary ingredient is a light petroleum based lubricating oil 64742-65-0.
http://msds.ergon.com/files/psmd-para/Hygold-P300N-MSDS.pdf

:
: At room temp and with no virtually no air flow, that takes years.
:
:
:> Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
:> temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.
:
:
:** The idea is to clean the surfaces and flush away contaminants.
:
: Nothing to do with mysterious "electrical issues ".
:
:
:> Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces
:
:** Light mineral oil is not a corrosive "chemical" - you fool.
:
:> and allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from
:> the
:> switch action, erosion sets in.
:
:** A coating of light oil protects the metal surfaces by excluding moisture
:and air - you colossally stupid ASS .
:
: Go away.
:
:
:
:...... Phil
:
:
:

Sep 8, 2008

On Sep 7, 4:05 pm, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"Eeysore"

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!

Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
flood of it mind you.

Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....

..... Phil ;-)

WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.

Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.

Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces and
allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from the
switch action, erosion sets in.

For proper restoration, switch contacts and surface ways need to
be polished and optionally copper antioxidant applied as used in
wire drawing operations.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

so sorry you posted this as PHIL will enter into his diatribe!!!
but you are correct in that wd 40 is not a lubricant!
water displacement formula 40.

Eeyore · Sep 8, 2008

Jamie wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:
"Eeysore"

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!

Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
flood of it mind you.

Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....

WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.

Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.

Which is why I won't be doing that.

Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces and
allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from the
switch action, erosion sets in.

For proper restoration, switch contacts and surface ways need to
be polished and optionally copper antioxidant applied as used in
wire drawing operations.

Or fit a new switch !

Graham

Eeyore · Sep 8, 2008

Franc Zabkar wrote:

Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:
Franc Zabkar wrote:
Franc Zabkar put finger to keyboard and composed:
Eeyore put finger to keyboard and composed:

SCHALTER-TAST 4XUM 1 switch 4pdt

I suspect 4xUM means 4PDT, and SCHALTER-TAST means switch-tactile.

http://www.babylon.com/definition/Tastschalter/English

Tastschalter

n. push button, press button, electric switch that operates via a
pressing

Indeed it is.

After some searching, it appears that the term "4xUM" is often
associated with relays.

I now believe that "UM" is an abbreviation for "umschaltung" which
translates to "changeover".

That makes perfect sense.

See http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Umschaltung.html

So 4xUM = 4PCO = 4PDT, ie you have a pushbutton switch with 4 pole
changeover contacts. But of course you already knew that from the
outset ...

BTW, my favourite switch lubricant/cleaner is Philips 390CCS.

I think these 2 are way beyond that.

Graham

Eeyore · Sep 8, 2008

Phil Allison wrote:

** Light mineral oil is not a corrosive "chemical" - you fool.

It WILL degrade certain plastics.

Graham

Jamie · Sep 8, 2008

Phil Allison wrote:

"Jamie" = Maynard A. Philbrook, KA1LPA

A radio ham & demented coder scribbler by trade.

Phil Allison:

** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!

Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
flood of it mind you.

Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....

..... Phil ;-)

WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.

** WD40 residue is ordinary light oil - whether it evaporates depends on
ambient temperature and local air flow.

At room temp and with no virtually no air flow, that takes years.

Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.

** The idea is to clean the surfaces and flush away contaminants.

Nothing to do with mysterious "electrical issues ".

Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces

** Light mineral oil is not a corrosive "chemical" - you fool.

and allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from
the
switch action, erosion sets in.

** A coating of light oil protects the metal surfaces by excluding moisture
and air - you colossally stupid ASS .

Go away.

...... Phil

I can see your all talk and no experience pecker head!.. this just

proves it..

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Jamie · Sep 8, 2008

audioaesthetic@gmail.com wrote:

On Sep 7, 4:05 pm, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Eeysore"

I'm repairing a Midas Venice mixing console. Try and avoid doing so.
It's a nightmare

Despite the agent's tech insisting that the 'solo' switches are 'self
cleaning', no amount of exercising them will prevent 2 of them behaving
intermittently.

** Obviously YOU lack the necessary Midas touch !!!!!

Maybe just a little WD40 down the shaft will do the trick - not a whole
flood of it mind you.

Don't want that precious console to wind up looking like Venice.....

..... Phil ;-)

WD-40 (fish oil as main ingredient or used to be) dries out.

Spraying the contacts for suspected electrical issues, only
temporarily fixes, and normally makes it worse afterwards.

Since most chemicals tend to deteriorate the contact surfaces and
allows for pitted areas that no longer receives regular wiping from the
switch action, erosion sets in.

For proper restoration, switch contacts and surface ways need to
be polished and optionally copper antioxidant applied as used in
wire drawing operations.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

so sorry you posted this as PHIL will enter into his diatribe!!!
but you are correct in that wd 40 is not a lubricant!
water displacement formula 40.
Yes, I realize my mistake of contradicting Phil. I'm sure this will

get him out of his rat hole to spit out more garbage.

Every one can place the blame on me for this one..!

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Jamie · Sep 8, 2008

Phil Allison wrote:

"Jamie" = Maynard A. Philbrook, KA1LPA

A radio ham & demented coder scribbler by trade.

And a rabid usenet menace by night.

...... Phil

Ha, is that all you can muster up boy?

I find your lack of creativity on the subject of
profound vocabulation , very boring..

It's my opinion and others may agree that
Phil, appears to be out to pasture.

For some of us, getting old is a real bitch!

P.S.
Have a good day Philis..

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Looking for this switch (Midas Venice solo switch)

Eeyore

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