lithium battery fun?

Guest
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On 08/01/2020 15:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes



Yawn

for every single BEV fire there are thousands of gasoline cars catching
fire.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/vauxhall-recalls-more-than-220000-zafira-cars-after-reports-of-dashboard-fires-a6723391.html

https://abc7chicago.com/tag/car-fire/

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/narrow-escape-family-four-their-bmw-car-catches-fire-bengaluru-113710

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/04/more-than-100-firefighters-called-to-massive-blaze-at-car-dealership-8103423/

https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/car-fire-sparks-massive-building-fire-in-somerville_necn/2069914/

etc etc etc
 
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 16.12.51 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes

nope, police confirmed that the fire started with an old diesel car
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:39:43 AM UTC-7, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 08/01/2020 15:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes



Yawn

for every single BEV fire there are thousands of gasoline cars catching
fire.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/vauxhall-recalls-more-than-220000-zafira-cars-after-reports-of-dashboard-fires-a6723391.html

https://abc7chicago.com/tag/car-fire/

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/narrow-escape-family-four-their-bmw-car-catches-fire-bengaluru-113710

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/04/more-than-100-firefighters-called-to-massive-blaze-at-car-dealership-8103423/

https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/car-fire-sparks-massive-building-fire-in-somerville_necn/2069914/

etc etc etc

....And for every single EV there are tens of thousands of gasoline vehicles. Now, being engineers, how should we actually approach this analysis?
 
On 1/8/2020 9:50 AM, DemonicTubes wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 8:39:43 AM UTC-7, Andy Bennet wrote:
On 08/01/2020 15:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes



Yawn

for every single BEV fire there are thousands of gasoline cars catching
fire.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/vauxhall-recalls-more-than-220000-zafira-cars-after-reports-of-dashboard-fires-a6723391.html

https://abc7chicago.com/tag/car-fire/

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/narrow-escape-family-four-their-bmw-car-catches-fire-bengaluru-113710

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/04/more-than-100-firefighters-called-to-massive-blaze-at-car-dealership-8103423/

https://www.necn.com/news/national-international/car-fire-sparks-massive-building-fire-in-somerville_necn/2069914/

etc etc etc

...And for every single EV there are tens of thousands of gasoline vehicles. Now, being engineers, how should we actually approach this analysis?

+1
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:49:23 AM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 16.12.51 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes


nope, police confirmed that the fire started with an old diesel car

There you go again with your mindless linking to factoid articles without regard to relevance. Did it occur to you the EVs may have exacerbated the fire beyond control when they caught fire??? The heat was so intense there was partial collapse of the structure in numerous areas. That makes it kind of difficult to get the fire under control. And the fact that plain water was ineffective in fire suppression sort of gives away the fact that lots of batteries were burning. And the very limited floor to ceiling clearance with ample avenues for air jet formation to feed the fire, turned the place into a rocket stove.
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:12:51 AM UTC-5, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes

Once again the Lark troll posts his crap without even looking for real information...

https://www.thelocal.no/20200108/norway-airport-flights-held-as-hundreds-of-cars-burn-in-fire

"The fire was initially reported at 3:33pm on Tuesday. The initial alert was a report of an electric car having caught fire, but police later confirmed to NRK that the fire started in a 2005 model diesel car."

If after a hundred years of development we still can't prevent petroleum fueled cars from causing such massive fires, perhaps we need to find an alternative?

--

Rick C.

- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:00:49 PM UTC-5, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:49:23 AM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 16.12.51 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes


nope, police confirmed that the fire started with an old diesel car

There you go again with your mindless linking to factoid articles without regard to relevance. Did it occur to you the EVs may have exacerbated the fire beyond control when they caught fire??? The heat was so intense there was partial collapse of the structure in numerous areas. That makes it kind of difficult to get the fire under control. And the fact that plain water was ineffective in fire suppression sort of gives away the fact that lots of batteries were burning. And the very limited floor to ceiling clearance with ample avenues for air jet formation to feed the fire, turned the place into a rocket stove.

I expect the Lark troll to post garbage without thinking. You seem to actually give thought, just not very good thought. Everything you posted here was just made up crap. I guess you have some sort of irrational bias towards EVs?

--

Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On 08/01/20 15:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes

Too many people on this forum see something and jump to
a conclusion that fits in with their confirmatory bias.

I'm sure there will be quite a few such posts in this thread.
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:17:31 PM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:00:49 PM UTC-5, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:49:23 AM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 16.12.51 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes


nope, police confirmed that the fire started with an old diesel car

There you go again with your mindless linking to factoid articles without regard to relevance. Did it occur to you the EVs may have exacerbated the fire beyond control when they caught fire??? The heat was so intense there was partial collapse of the structure in numerous areas. That makes it kind of difficult to get the fire under control. And the fact that plain water was ineffective in fire suppression sort of gives away the fact that lots of batteries were burning. And the very limited floor to ceiling clearance with ample avenues for air jet formation to feed the fire, turned the place into a rocket stove.

I expect the Lark troll to post garbage without thinking. You seem to actually give thought, just not very good thought. Everything you posted here was just made up crap. I guess you have some sort of irrational bias towards EVs?

-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Dan
Rick C.

+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
> > -- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.
 
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 13:51:28 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee@gmail.com
wrote:

-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.

The reason tanks usually have diesel engines is that diesel is hard to
ignite.

I wonder if they are sure.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes

Too many people on this forum see something and jump to
a conclusion that fits in with their confirmatory bias.

I'm sure there will be quite a few such posts in this thread.

My first serious problem with a Chinese lithium-ion battery and/or
Chinese charger occurred yesterday. My drone batteries are charged
in a large and thick glass pan (thanks to all of the prior warnings
I have read). Was standing next to it when there was a burning smell
and the package was swollen to about twice its normal size. I threw
away all four of those batteries, no big deal. If that dirt cheap
charger is uncapped, I won't use it either.
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 4:34:12 PM UTC-5, dca...@krl.org wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:17:31 PM UTC-5, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:00:49 PM UTC-5, bloggs.fre...@gmail..com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 10:49:23 AM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 16.12.51 UTC+1 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes


nope, police confirmed that the fire started with an old diesel car

There you go again with your mindless linking to factoid articles without regard to relevance. Did it occur to you the EVs may have exacerbated the fire beyond control when they caught fire??? The heat was so intense there was partial collapse of the structure in numerous areas. That makes it kind of difficult to get the fire under control. And the fact that plain water was ineffective in fire suppression sort of gives away the fact that lots of batteries were burning. And the very limited floor to ceiling clearance with ample avenues for air jet formation to feed the fire, turned the place into a rocket stove.

I expect the Lark troll to post garbage without thinking. You seem to actually give thought, just not very good thought. Everything you posted here was just made up crap. I guess you have some sort of irrational bias towards EVs?

-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Dan

Lithium batteries don't contain large amounts of metallic lithium. The recommended way to deal with a lithium battery fire is to dunk it in water. Important to know if your cell phone bursts into flames in your pocket. Always carry your cell phone with a bottle of water next to it.

Oh, they don't let you carry gasoline or diesel fuel onto airplanes either, even in your checked baggage. They still let you bring lithium batteries though... laptops, cell phones, all sorts of devices in fact. Good thing the methanol based fuel cell never appeared in cell phones. I'm sure they would never make it on a commercial flight.

--

Rick C.

-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.

If you are worried about the 24 kWh in your battery, which will NEVER explode like a bomb, you should be just as afraid of a lawn mower, a motor scooter or any of dozens of other things that are fueled by gasoline which contains 35 kWh of energy per gallon and can actually explode under the right conditions of mixing with air. The military calls that a thermobaric weapon, or a fuel-air bomb. Very deadly. Heck, it should scare the living daylights out of you to drive on the highway with all those 400, 500 kWh bombs, not to mention the 18 wheel MWh mega-bombs.

--

Rick C.

-+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
 
On 9/1/20 9:00 am, John Larkin wrote:
The reason tanks usually have diesel engines is that diesel is hard to
ignite.

Diesel engines are also much less susceptible to variable fuel - as long
as the filters keep small particles out of the injectors and pumps.

They're not as tolerant as turbines however, which can run on almost
anything that burns.
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:25:44 PM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.

If you are worried about the 24 kWh in your battery, which will NEVER explode like a bomb, you should be just as afraid of a lawn mower, a motor scooter or any of dozens of other things that are fueled by gasoline which contains 35 kWh of energy per gallon and can actually explode under the right conditions of mixing with air. The military calls that a thermobaric weapon, or a fuel-air bomb. Very deadly. Heck, it should scare the living daylights out of you to drive on the highway with all those 400, 500 kWh bombs, not to mention the 18 wheel MWh mega-bombs.

Gasoline fire is by no mean safer, but as least it flows and spread out. Lithium fire will stay until it burns out completely.
 
On Wed, 8 Jan 2020 22:01:39 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
<always.look@message.header> wrote:

Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-07/fire-at-norway-airport-destroys-hundreds-of-cars-grounds-planes

Too many people on this forum see something and jump to
a conclusion that fits in with their confirmatory bias.

I'm sure there will be quite a few such posts in this thread.

My first serious problem with a Chinese lithium-ion battery and/or
Chinese charger occurred yesterday. My drone batteries are charged
in a large and thick glass pan (thanks to all of the prior warnings
I have read). Was standing next to it when there was a burning smell
and the package was swollen to about twice its normal size. I threw
away all four of those batteries, no big deal. If that dirt cheap
charger is uncapped, I won't use it either.

We had an outbreak of "hoverboard" (battery powered skateboard) fires
here, from cheap import lithium batteries. Batteries pack chemical
reactants very close together.

--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 23.39.32 UTC+1 skrev edward...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:25:44 PM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.

If you are worried about the 24 kWh in your battery, which will NEVER explode like a bomb, you should be just as afraid of a lawn mower, a motor scooter or any of dozens of other things that are fueled by gasoline which contains 35 kWh of energy per gallon and can actually explode under the right conditions of mixing with air. The military calls that a thermobaric weapon, or a fuel-air bomb. Very deadly. Heck, it should scare the living daylights out of you to drive on the highway with all those 400, 500 kWh bombs, not to mention the 18 wheel MWh mega-bombs.

Gasoline fire is by no mean safer, but as least it flows and spread out. Lithium fire will stay until it burns out completely.

here they recently got containers for EV, they idea is to pull the car inside and flood it

https://ekstrabladet.dk/incoming/wtbxmj/7872420/IMAGE_ALTERNATES/p730/dcx-77907736-20191113144023
 
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 3:38:28 PM UTC-8, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
onsdag den 8. januar 2020 kl. 23.39.32 UTC+1 skrev edward...@gmail.com:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 2:25:44 PM UTC-8, Rick C wrote:
On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 4:51:36 PM UTC-5, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
-- Being concerned about Lithium batteries is not irrational They are banned on aircraft flights for a reason. If I remember correctly lithium will burn if you get it wet.

Even if the EV is not involved in the original fire, it's a problem if it's involved later. I know. I am driving a 24kWh bomb, but still less dangerous than others.

If you are worried about the 24 kWh in your battery, which will NEVER explode like a bomb, you should be just as afraid of a lawn mower, a motor scooter or any of dozens of other things that are fueled by gasoline which contains 35 kWh of energy per gallon and can actually explode under the right conditions of mixing with air. The military calls that a thermobaric weapon, or a fuel-air bomb. Very deadly. Heck, it should scare the living daylights out of you to drive on the highway with all those 400, 500 kWh bombs, not to mention the 18 wheel MWh mega-bombs.

Gasoline fire is by no mean safer, but as least it flows and spread out.. Lithium fire will stay until it burns out completely.

And burning a 24kWh battery will release far more energy than 24kWh.

here they recently got containers for EV, they idea is to pull the car inside and flood it

https://ekstrabladet.dk/incoming/wtbxmj/7872420/IMAGE_ALTERNATES/p730/dcx-77907736-20191113144023

Problem is if the car is inside a garage. It will consume everything around it before you can pull it out. I ban my EV from my garage.
 

Welcome to EDABoard.com

Sponsor

Back
Top