Lithium batteries, not worth it...

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:51:22 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 1:57:46 PM UTC+10, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle lead acid batteries costing £150?
The fact the e-bay advertises the product at that price isn\'t any indication that anybody has bought it. It is possible that it might work better in some peculiar application than a couple of lead acid batteries - it\'s almost certainly going to be lighter, for a start.

A dim wanker like you wouldn\'t know about anything like that. The ad may be aimed at a different kind of dim wanker - possibly a greeny, but not all greenies are dim wankers.

He\'s too much of an imbecile ( medically definitive diagnosis of lack of intellectual capacity ) to understand Ah is not the same as kWh, and that 2x 130 Ah does not equate. The GroWatt product claims lifetime of 6000 cycles, which by my estimate puts it at approximately 5x that achievable with low grade \"leisure\" AGMs, meaning he will go through 5x AGMs within the lifetime of lithium. Nor can he understand that for the same power delivery, the current feed for the AGM must have an ampacity 55/13 or over 4x the lithium circuit. Finally the lithium technology has nearly 100% charging efficiency, the AGM does not, which means he will need nearly twice ( 1.67) the renewable capacity to recharge the AGM with the same energy as the lithium per unit time, and that will NOT be inconsiderable.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 08:59:07 -0400, Paul, another mentally deficient
troll-feeding senile ASSHOLE blathered:

That means the Lithium battery lasts 25x as long, for 6x the price.

All it means is that the trolling wanker successfully bait yet another bunch
of real demented troll-feeding senile ASSHOLES!

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 11:15:38 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:

You seem to misunderstand units of energy. Wasn\'t your claimed degree in
Physics?

The clinically insane trolling wanker certainly should get a degree in
trolling, as he gets all you senile assholes to feed him, time and again,
though ALL of you know what\'s the matter with him!

--
More from the gay wanker\'s (now \"Commander Kinsey\" LOL) strange sociopathic
world:
\"...men are superior, so a woman dressed as a man looks better, not worse.\"
MID: <op.yzkf2xurjs98qf@red.lan>

 

[Frank]

On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles. Would be interesting to see what they would weigh
with a lead battery.

One problem with price is demand. Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries. Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.

 

[jim.gm4dhj]

On 14/04/2023 12:42, Brian Gaff wrote:

I find this hard to believe unless the Lithium one has been priced wrongly.
The power weight and size density is far better in Lithium cells than in
Lead acid ones. It depends if size and weight and max current are an issue
or not.

Brian

when things are out of stock they stick up the price to keep the advert open

 

[Frank]

On 4/14/2023 1:14 AM, T wrote:

On 4/13/23 21:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 04:57:37 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com
wrote:

Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

Or.... £446 for 100Ah, when you an get a 130Ah lead acid for £75:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114677041217


But, But, But, But lithium batteries rape the earth
to extract the lithium and are a nightmare to
recycle so they are considered green!!!!

I have seen analysis of ores coming out of Peruvian lead mine. There is
nothing green there and it is a nightmare compared to lithium salts with
all the other heavy, toxic metals along with the lead.

 

[Peeler]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 10:49:40 -0400, REAL dumb Frankie Boi, the notorious
troll-feeding senile asshole and Trumptard, blathered again:

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles.

If your stupidity had any weight, YOU\'d get crushed under it, REAL dumb
Frankie Boi!

 

[Ed Lee]

On Thursday, April 13, 2023 at 8:57:46 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle lead acid batteries costing £150?

Yes, make no sense to use this to crank your ICE, if you only need 500A for couple of seconds. However, if you want to drive motors, it\'s a different story.

 

[Ed P]

On 4/14/2023 10:49 AM, Frank wrote:

On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles.  Would be interesting to see what they would weigh
with a lead battery.

One problem with price is demand.  Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries.  Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.

lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

 

[Frank]

On 4/14/2023 12:04 PM, Ed P wrote:

On 4/14/2023 10:49 AM, Frank wrote:
On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles.  Would be interesting to see what they would weigh
with a lead battery.

One problem with price is demand.  Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries.  Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.


lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

Yes, there are a lot of technologies being looked into. Something like
sodium would be much cheaper and not have the flammability concerns even
though only slightly heavier.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:49:40 +0100, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles. Would be interesting to see what they would weigh
with a lead battery.

I worked out I could extend the range of a small EV by 120 miles with 250kg of Lead Acid. That\'s the weight of three adult male humans. Which you can put in the back of a car without breaking it.

Adding weight to an EV doesn\'t use much more power. It uses more to accelerate, but you get more back from braking. It uses more to go uphill, but you get more back going downhill. When going at a constant speed, the air resistance is what matters, which is unchanged. You just need stronger suspension.

One problem with price is demand. Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries. Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.

AFAIK we still haven\'t mastered recycling lithium.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:50:06 +0100, jim.gm4dhj <kinvig.netta@ntlworld.com> wrote:

On 14/04/2023 12:42, Brian Gaff wrote:
I find this hard to believe unless the Lithium one has been priced wrongly.
The power weight and size density is far better in Lithium cells than in
Lead acid ones. It depends if size and weight and max current are an issue
or not.

when things are out of stock they stick up the price to keep the advert open

When I see shit like that I report them. Another pet hate is selling a variety of things at say £20, £30, £40, but having a spare washer for £1. So I\'m hunting for the device by cheapest first, and encounter loads for \"£1 to £40\" listed first. \"Search and browse manipulation\", 5 seconds to report them.

But the genuine ones are 7 times more expensive than Lead Acid.

 

[Commander Kinsey]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:58:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid..invalid> wrote:

On 14/04/2023 13:59, Paul wrote:
On 4/14/2023 12:35 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 04:57:37 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com
wrote:

Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

Or.... £446 for 100Ah, when you an get a 130Ah lead acid for £75:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114677041217

A leisure battery is 200 cycles, LiPo is 5000-7000 cycles.

no, it really isnt

Indeed. I checked some EVs, they guarantee the battery will still hold a reasonable charge (80%) after 100,000 miles. Assuming a full charge is about 150 miles, that\'s well under 1000 charges, nevermind 5000-7000.

He\'ll be quoting discharging it by 20%, which is obviously cheating.

 

[Ed Lee]

On Friday, April 14, 2023 at 12:50:46 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:49:40 +0100, Frank <\"frank \"@frank.net> wrote:

On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton more
than ICE vehicles. Would be interesting to see what they would weigh
with a lead battery.
I worked out I could extend the range of a small EV by 120 miles with 250kg of Lead Acid. That\'s the weight of three adult male humans. Which you can put in the back of a car without breaking it.

https://www.renogy.com/deep-cycle-agm-battery-12-volt-200ah is 2000W 65kg $360

They suggest not to discharge beyond 50%. So, you needs 40 of them to go 120 miles, which is 40,000W 2,600 kg and $14,000.

 

[T]

On 4/14/23 07:51, Frank wrote:

On 4/14/2023 1:14 AM, T wrote:
On 4/13/23 21:35, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 04:57:37 +0100, Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com>
wrote:

Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep
cycle lead acid batteries costing £150?

Or.... £446 for 100Ah, when you an get a 130Ah lead acid for £75:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114677041217


But, But, But, But lithium batteries rape the earth
to extract the lithium and are a nightmare to
recycle so they are considered green!!!!

I have seen analysis of ores coming out of Peruvian lead mine.  There is
nothing green there and it is a nightmare compared to lithium salts with
all the other heavy, toxic metals along with the lead.

And the water used is not toxic to the point of not
being able to be used for a very, very long time.
You know that will eventually, with some palm
waxing, be flushed into the rivers. Oppps,
how did that happen???

 

[T]

On 4/14/23 10:11, Frank wrote:

On 4/14/2023 12:04 PM, Ed P wrote:
On 4/14/2023 10:49 AM, Frank wrote:
On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep
cycle lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton
more than ICE vehicles.  Would be interesting to see what they would
weigh with a lead battery.

One problem with price is demand.  Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries.  Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.


lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

Yes, there are a lot of technologies being looked into.  Something like
sodium would be much cheaper and not have the flammability concerns even
though only slightly heavier.

Natural gas fuel cells come to mind.

Also, gasoline engines continue to become
more efficient and less polluting.

 

[danny burstein]

[snip of more base64 garbage by \"T\"]

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 07:37:37 +0100, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

On 14/04/2023 04:57, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep cycle
lead acid batteries costing £150?

With a brand name of Growatt obviously aimed at the home cannabis farm -
they can afford it.

Growing weed was profitable when it was illegal. Now, anybody can do
it.

Wholesale prices in California dropped from $1200 to $100 per pound.

Used to be that Humboldt Country was a pioneer of solar, off-grid
power, for all the weed farms out in the wilderness.

 

[John Larkin]

On Fri, 14 Apr 2023 15:14:20 -0700, T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 4/14/23 10:11, Frank wrote:
On 4/14/2023 12:04 PM, Ed P wrote:
On 4/14/2023 10:49 AM, Frank wrote:
On 4/13/2023 11:57 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Are you greenies nuts?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385430139122
Nearly 3 grand for a battery with the same capacity of two deep
cycle lead acid batteries costing £150?

As it is EV\'s with lithium batteries weigh about about a half ton
more than ICE vehicles.  Would be interesting to see what they would
weigh with a lead battery.

One problem with price is demand.  Currently lead is a commodity and
most of it is available as recycle from depleted batteries.  Even if
price were equivalent there is probably more cost in manufacture of
lithium batteries needing additional materials and more complexity of
manufacture.


lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

Yes, there are a lot of technologies being looked into.  Something like
sodium would be much cheaper and not have the flammability concerns even
though only slightly heavier.

Natural gas fuel cells come to mind.

Fuel cells have been the thing of the future since 1838. Car makers
keep promising hydrogen fuel cell cars but don\'t deliver.

Seems to me that an NG fuel cell car would make more sense than
hydrogen. I suspect that fuel cells aren\'t very practical.

 

[Ed P]

On 4/14/2023 6:14 PM, T wrote:

lithium batteries are just a passing phase of technology.

The future will be either graphene, aluminum or silicone anode.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/01/04/1066141/whats-next-for-batteries/
This year could be a breakout year for one alternative: lithium iron
phosphate (LFP), a low-cost cathode material sometimes used for
lithium-ion batteries.

Yes, there are a lot of technologies being looked into.  Something
like sodium would be much cheaper and not have the flammability
concerns even though only slightly heavier.

Natural gas fuel cells come to mind.

Also, gasoline engines continue to become
more efficient and less polluting.

Yes, been many advances. Fact is, not in our lifetime, but in the
future, oil will run out. It will get expensive as it get harder to
find and process.

Fortunately there are people working on renewable technology to keep
that from becoming a big problem. Long way to go, but working towards in.

Our grandkids and great grandkids will be driving EVs, thank to the
effort made today.