light leakage through loose threads, teflon tape

W

Winfield Hill

Guest
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On 22 May 2019 08:49:53 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

Black teflon tape?

The goopy pipe joint compound would probably work too. I'd guess there
might be a lot of grazing incidence reflections spiraling in on the
threads. So anything that scatters light might work.

ThorLabs should fix that.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
"Winfield Hill" wrote in message news:qc3r3107rq@drn.newsguy.com...
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

Probably not applicable here but it is cute so I wanted to pass it on. I
recently I saw a little blurb in Chemical and Engineering News (weekly
American Chemical Society news magazine) about researchers who needed an
antireflective coating to block stray light in a "lab on a chip" they built
up on microscope slides, with liquid flow channels, mixing chambers, and
finally an analysis cell where they did laser fluorescence. After trying a
variety of ideas they settled on matte black nail polish as the most
effective and easiest to apply without damaging other chip layers. Not sure
if this is behind a paywall or not, but see
https://cen.acs.org/biological-chemistry/microbiome/Microbes-both-world/97/i16.

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames
 
On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:50:08 AM UTC-7, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

Two quick-and-dirty, and two longterm/mass production thoughts.

Black paint (magic marker, usually) on the shiny metal bits
or
antiseize lubricant in the threads (graphite in grease - or petroleum jelly and penclil lead)

and

black-anodized aluminum threads (fine ones are good) oughtn't leak much
or
tapered threads (like pipe thread) never have to be loose - just turn until tight

Pipe threads for a two-inch tube aren't easy with hand tools, though I've got
the taps and dies, but a real machine shop can do fine-pitch equivalents

The (thin) oxide on iron is ubiquitous, and a lot less transparent than Al2O3,
 
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 3:15:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?



That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

Well I use a single layer of teflon tape to take out the backlash
in the fine threads of a thor lab lens tube. Not to block any light.

Not to you, but others. If you are blocking light to a silicon photodiode
then one thing to be aware of is that something 'black' in the visible,
may not be 'black' in the Near IR. (Which is one reason I like my
incandescent bulb... lotsa NIR photons.)

I haven't done any sort of systematic study, but I find that black
electrical tape makes a good light blocker at least down to 1 um.

George H.
Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 16:50:08 UTC+1, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

Here there are 2 common grades, the gas grade is yellow which should work better than the white.


NT
 
On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 22:44:22 UTC+1, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

How about Kapton tape. Its already fairly dark in the visible and is
reported to have high emissivity in the far infra-red, so it might
be quite black in the near infra red also.

John
 
On Wed, 22 May 2019 14:53:08 -0700 (PDT), jrwalliker@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, 22 May 2019 22:44:22 UTC+1, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

How about Kapton tape. Its already fairly dark in the visible and is
reported to have high emissivity in the far infra-red, so it might
be quite black in the near infra red also.

John

Even thin Kapton tape is black at thermal wavelengths. I stick a bit
onto shiny things to measure their temperature with our Flir.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ie7yzt6opasa0le/Cool1.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uem00xept19rl3h/Cool2.jpg?dl=0


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
 
On 22 May 2019 19:50:15 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

Even thin Kapton tape is black at thermal wavelengths.
I stick a bit onto shiny things to measure their
temperature with our Flir.

Do you think it should be taped over 1210 resistors
and SOT-23 transistors, for accurate readings? I'm
setting T-max for part surface readings of 120 deg C.
The circuit is working fine, but what about long-term
reliability? I have 2 watts dissipated in three near-
spaced 1210 resistors and three SOT-23 transistors.

That doesn't sound bad. More copper helps a lot, since most parts dump
their heat through their pads and leads. A 1210 is fine at 1 watt if
it's soldered to some hunky copper pours.


Maybe could cover them with thermal tape or a heat-
spreader, plus a heatsink, but what's the temp then?

The other things that work are to dab the part with a black whiteboard
marker, or a bit of whiteout, or some Testor model paint.

The whiteboard marker is very thin so pretty well represents the part
temperature.

Image a part and wave your hand around in a place that its
"reflection" would bounce off the part into the imager. If the
apparent temperature of the part doesn't change, its emissivity is
high so its temperature indicates accurately. If it seems to reflect
the heat from your hand, dab it with something.

Epoxy parts, like SOT23s, are pretty good.


Hey, here's a thermal image of a short under an FPGA, with a couple of
amps injected. I think that was a ball-ball solder bridge.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rxk5dd8i6gr74nq/PCB_Short.jpg?dl=0



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
John Larkin wrote...
Even thin Kapton tape is black at thermal wavelengths.
I stick a bit onto shiny things to measure their
temperature with our Flir.

Do you think it should be taped over 1210 resistors
and SOT-23 transistors, for accurate readings? I'm
setting T-max for part surface readings of 120 deg C.
The circuit is working fine, but what about long-term
reliability? I have 2 watts dissipated in three near-
spaced 1210 resistors and three SOT-23 transistors.

Maybe could cover them with thermal tape or a heat-
spreader, plus a heatsink, but what's the temp then?


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On 2019-05-22, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 3:15:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?



That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

Well I use a single layer of teflon tape to take out the backlash
in the fine threads of a thor lab lens tube. Not to block any light.

Not to you, but others. If you are blocking light to a silicon photodiode
then one thing to be aware of is that something 'black' in the visible,
may not be 'black' in the Near IR. (Which is one reason I like my
incandescent bulb... lotsa NIR photons.)

I haven't done any sort of systematic study, but I find that black
electrical tape makes a good light blocker at least down to 1 um.

electrical tape seems to cut the brightness of LEDs by an aparrent
factor of about 50 (mark-1 eyeball), metal tape is much more effective.



--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
John Larkin wrote...
On 22 May 2019 19:50:15 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

Even thin Kapton tape is black at thermal wavelengths.
I stick a bit onto shiny things to measure their
temperature with our Flir.

Do you think it should be taped over 1210 resistors
and SOT-23 transistors, for accurate readings? I'm
setting T-max for part surface readings of 120 deg C.
The circuit is working fine, but what about long-term
reliability? I have 2 watts dissipated in three near-
spaced 1210 resistors and three SOT-23 transistors.

That doesn't sound bad. More copper helps a lot ...
A 1210 is fine at 1 watt if it's soldered to some
hunky copper pours.

I have larger solder pads, but all six parts are
in close proximity. At 1kV, dissipating 2.1 watts
they get to 115C, at 2.6 watts, they show 144C.
That's at my 1.2kV goal, so add thermal tape and
heatsinks, or scale back a bit on the performance.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
On Thursday, May 23, 2019 at 12:30:59 AM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote:
On 2019-05-22, George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 3:15:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?



That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

Well I use a single layer of teflon tape to take out the backlash
in the fine threads of a thor lab lens tube. Not to block any light.

Not to you, but others. If you are blocking light to a silicon photodiode
then one thing to be aware of is that something 'black' in the visible,
may not be 'black' in the Near IR. (Which is one reason I like my
incandescent bulb... lotsa NIR photons.)

I haven't done any sort of systematic study, but I find that black
electrical tape makes a good light blocker at least down to 1 um.

electrical tape seems to cut the brightness of LEDs by an aparrent
factor of about 50 (mark-1 eyeball), metal tape is much more effective.
Eyeballs aren't calibrated. Incandescent lamp butted into photodiode
3 mA of current. (3 V at 1 k ohm)

1 layer black electrical tape (Scotch, Super 33+, professional grade.)
0.055 mV at 10 Meg ohm, but that's just the offset and doesn't change when
the light is switched off.

A cheaper piece of electrical tape passed 0.5 V at 10 meg ohm
~50 nA... many orders of magnitdue! But the Scotch stuff is what I use.

George H.
--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.
 
On Thursday, 23 May 2019 13:26:49 UTC+1, Winfield Hill wrote:

> I have larger solder pads,

That would explain why you're a natural at electronics


NT
 
On 23 May 2019 05:26:33 -0700, Winfield Hill
<hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

On 22 May 2019 19:50:15 -0700, Winfield Hill
hill@rowland.harvard.edu> wrote:

John Larkin wrote...

Even thin Kapton tape is black at thermal wavelengths.
I stick a bit onto shiny things to measure their
temperature with our Flir.

Do you think it should be taped over 1210 resistors
and SOT-23 transistors, for accurate readings? I'm
setting T-max for part surface readings of 120 deg C.
The circuit is working fine, but what about long-term
reliability? I have 2 watts dissipated in three near-
spaced 1210 resistors and three SOT-23 transistors.

That doesn't sound bad. More copper helps a lot ...
A 1210 is fine at 1 watt if it's soldered to some
hunky copper pours.

I have larger solder pads, but all six parts are
in close proximity. At 1kV, dissipating 2.1 watts
they get to 115C, at 2.6 watts, they show 144C.
That's at my 1.2kV goal, so add thermal tape and
heatsinks, or scale back a bit on the performance.

I like to cool the backside of a hot spot on a PCB with a small
gap-pad. That can really pull the temp down, and is still good HV
insulation. One sq inch of decent pad, maybe 50 mils thick, would be
well under 1 K/W.

Image the back of the board if you can. It may be a real hot spot.

Inner layer copper pours can spread heat too.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics
 
On 5/23/19 2:50 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

The teflon tape worked. 5032nm.
Plastic is pretty opaque in the mid-IR, so that's no big surprise.
(Unless you meant 532 nm.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
 
Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

The teflon tape worked. 5032nm.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
Phil Hobbs wrote...
On 5/23/19 2:50 PM, Winfield Hill wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote...

On 5/22/19 11:49 AM, Winfield Hill wrote:
We used teflon tape to solve a problem with light
leakage, through loose threads, in a Thor Labs
2" optical tube. Comments or suggestions?

That's a favourite technique of George's. Normally black anodized
threads aren't much of a problem--it takes many bounces off a black
surface for the light to get into your detector.

Of course most black anodize is coloured with organic dyes, which aren't
highly absorbing in the IR. You really want carbon for broadband loss.

How big was the leak, and what wavelength was it?

The teflon tape worked. 5032nm.

Plastic is pretty opaque in the mid-IR, so that's no
big surprise. (Unless you meant 532 nm.)

Yes, I misttyyppeedd! It was 532.


--
Thanks,
- Win
 
Teflon tape is junk. It is an automatic leak. It is not code for gas lines or any of that shit though the assholes at the DIYs will try to tell you it is. Less diligent plumbers use it because it is less messy than pipe dope.


The main question here is how much pressure you are dealing with. If it is high then you might want to consider Locktite instead. I know it is not the EXACT purpose of the shit but then do we care what they wanted done with it once they got their money ? Fukum.

If you are involved with the possibility of any big liability here I would do serious product testing before it goes out the door.

The problem with the pipe dope in your application is if the thing is glass or glass supported then unscrewing it may break it.


Just what I am saying. Not the expert on LASERs n shit at all but I have been involved with some weird kinda processes. The guy to ask would have been the olman. he might have used like an alloy of maybe mercury and tin, to have it solid at operating temperatures but with a little Burnsomatic or maybe even a pencil torch you could get it hot and take it back apart easily. but it has to not only well below the melting temperature, it also has to not cause too much thermal expansion or it might break or deform.

I am assuming right now that you have a reason for that tape. The way I see that is first of all that tape is white and quite translucent. Duct tape would be better as a light shield. however it has an aggressive adhesive so maybe not so good. Will masking tape take the heat ? (only if you are dealing with any really pressure of course)
 

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