Light bulb question

[John Carter]

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Thanks for your help.

John Carter

 

[Phil Allison]

"John Carter"

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

** The makers of CFLs recommend you do NOT use them in enclosed fittings.

More so if the CFL is of a high power rating, and if the fitting is exposed
to sunlight or mounted on the ceiling.

Problem is, incandescent lamps can operate happily at temps that would make
any CFL fail in a few minutes.



...... Phil

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:36:46 +0000, John Carter wrote:

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the new
CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses 27W
would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Thanks for your help.

John Carter

It'll die an early death. All of the CF bulbs that I've ever seen have
stipulated that they be used in an area of free air flow, and when I've
neglected to heed that advice they've died.

They're cheaply made, with mediocre parts; the ones we've put in fixtures
with air flow have lasted well, the others -- died.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

 

[Jon Slaughter]

"John Carter" <me@mymailsvr.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9C95F03CD833Bjcartgmailcom@74.209.136.93...

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Not necessarily. The 100W bulb is 100W of heat... or like 99W. So just
because it is equivalent to such a light bulb just means that it probably is
still 24W of heat. Hence enclosing that heat may or may not cause some
serious problems. It will still be somewhat hot as it's dissipating about
1/4 the heat. 25W is pretty significant... enough that you can easily burn
yourself(if the heat is localized at least).

 

On Sep 29, 9:57 pm, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

"John Carter" <m...@mymailsvr.org> wrote in message

news:Xns9C95F03CD833Bjcartgmailcom@74.209.136.93...

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb.  I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Not necessarily. The 100W bulb is 100W of heat... or like 99W. So just
because it is equivalent to such a light bulb just means that it probably is
still 24W of heat. Hence enclosing that heat may or may not cause some
serious problems. It will still be somewhat hot as it's dissipating about
1/4 the heat. 25W is pretty significant... enough that you can easily burn
yourself(if the heat is localized at least).

Not so Jon. Phil and Tim are correct _but_ I have seen a few CFLs that
stated they _were_ suitable for use in an enclosed space - and upside
down. Read the packages carefully.

G˛

 

[default]

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 00:28:54 -0700 (PDT), stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:

On Sep 29, 9:57 pm, "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaugh...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
"John Carter" <m...@mymailsvr.org> wrote in message

news:Xns9C95F03CD833Bjcartgmailcom@74.209.136.93...

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb.  I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Not necessarily. The 100W bulb is 100W of heat... or like 99W. So just
because it is equivalent to such a light bulb just means that it probably is
still 24W of heat. Hence enclosing that heat may or may not cause some
serious problems. It will still be somewhat hot as it's dissipating about
1/4 the heat. 25W is pretty significant... enough that you can easily burn
yourself(if the heat is localized at least).

Not so Jon. Phil and Tim are correct _but_ I have seen a few CFLs that
stated they _were_ suitable for use in an enclosed space - and upside
down. Read the packages carefully.

G˛
I think the technology keeps improving. My wife has them in an

enclosed fixture in the kitchen and they've been surviving for years
now - right over the electric range too.

I take apart the bad ones and salvage the ferrites - it is amazing how
much the semiconductors have shrunk over the years - all the parts
shrink, but now they have something the size of a TO92 where they used
to have TO220's


--

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <h9uof8$1cs$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Jon Slaughter wrote:

"John Carter" <me@mymailsvr.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9C95F03CD833Bjcartgmailcom@74.209.136.93...
I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the
new CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses
27W would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Not necessarily. The 100W bulb is 100W of heat... or like 99W. So just
because it is equivalent to such a light bulb just means that it probably is
still 24W of heat. Hence enclosing that heat may or may not cause some
serious problems. It will still be somewhat hot as it's dissipating about
1/4 the heat. 25W is pretty significant... enough that you can easily burn
yourself(if the heat is localized at least).

CFLs cooking themselves is a common problem.

Besides not being able to withstand high temperatures as well as
incandescents can, CFLs are more efficient at producing convected and
conducted heat than incandescents. Incandescents produce a fair amount of
infrared, which usually mostly escapes the fixture. A 100 watt
incandescent probably causes about 2-2.5 times as much heating of a
fixture as a 27 watt CFL does.

Once, I tried a 42 watt CFL and a 60 watt incandescent in an enclosed
fixture, and the fixture got very slightly hotter with the 42 watt CFL
than with the 60 watt incandescent.

There is a 23 watt CFL rated for recessed ceiling fixtures and probably
OK in enclosed fixtures: Philips 23-watt non-dimmable SLS ("triple arch")
"Marathon".

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[T]

In article <BrOdnbnyIvqLR1_XnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d@web-ster.com>,
tim@seemywebsite.com says...

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 03:36:46 +0000, John Carter wrote:

I have an enclosed light fixture that is rated and is using a 6oW
incndescent bulb. I really need more light, so I thought one of the new
CF bulbs that says it is equivalent to a 100W bulb, yet only uses 27W
would be a solution.

My question is can I be certain that this CF bulb will NOT generate too
much heat to be used in this enclosed unit?

Thanks for your help.

John Carter

It'll die an early death. All of the CF bulbs that I've ever seen have
stipulated that they be used in an area of free air flow, and when I've
neglected to heed that advice they've died.

They're cheaply made, with mediocre parts; the ones we've put in fixtures
with air flow have lasted well, the others -- died.

Ikea sells FCL's that are enclosed in a plastic globe. I'd say that
kills the airflow.

I've got em' in the bathroom and they do fine since it's not a constant
light situation in there.

 

[Phil Allison]

"T"

Ikea sells FCL's that are enclosed in a plastic globe. I'd say that
kills the airflow.

** It's not the temp of the glass tubes that matters - it's the temp INSIDE
the plastic base.

Cos that is where all the electronics is !!

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#exist

I've got em' in the bathroom and they do fine since it's not a constant
light situation in there.

** Shame that is the one place where CFLs are least likely to be
satisfactory.

1. Most CFLs are not moisture proof and will fail if allowed to get damp
inside.

2. Constant cycling dramatically shortens lifespan.

3. Most CFLs are slow to give full light output, the opposite of what one
needs in a bathroom.


..... Phil

 

[George Herold]

On Oct 1, 9:03 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"T"

Ikea sells FCL's that are enclosed in a plastic globe. I'd say that
kills the airflow.

** It's not the temp of the glass tubes that matters - it's the temp INSIDE
the plastic base.

   Cos that is where all the electronics is !!

   http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#exist

I've got em' in the bathroom and they do fine since it's not a constant
light situation in there.

** Shame that is the one place where CFLs are least likely to be
satisfactory.

 1.  Most CFLs are not moisture proof and will fail if allowed to get damp
inside.

 2.  Constant cycling dramatically shortens lifespan.

 3.  Most CFLs are slow to give full light output, the opposite of what one
needs in a bathroom.

   .....   Phil

"> ** Shame that is the one place where CFLs are least likely to be

satisfactory.

1. Most CFLs are not moisture proof and will fail if allowed to get damp
inside."

Gotta agree, I put in a whole bunch of 'vanity' CFL's around the
bathroom mirror. That was a few years ago, they are slowly dying and
I'm replacing them with the original incandescent. (I assume the
death is caused my the humid environs of the bathroom.)

live and learn,
George H.

 

[Phil Allison]

"Don Klipstein = Stupid Old Fart "

I have mostly good experience with both CFLs and regular fluoreascents
in bathrooms.

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

The next biggest
issue appears to me to be color rendering of skin, makeup and clothing.

** Most CFLs are available in " warm white" colour temp - which gives
good skin tones.

I have heard of the humidity issue before,

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

Message to Don:
-------------------

Fact is, those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to
shut the fuck up.

Don has no sense at all.



...... Phil

 

[Don Klipstein]

In <660cc737-33ba-4444-b8c2-1afb89f99529@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
George Herold wrote:

On Oct 1, 9:03 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
"T"

Ikea sells FCL's that are enclosed in a plastic globe. I'd say that
kills the airflow.

** It's not the temp of the glass tubes that matters - it's the temp INSIDE
the plastic base.

Cos that is where all the electronics is !!

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#exist

I've got em' in the bathroom and they do fine since it's not a constant
light situation in there.

** Shame that is the one place where CFLs are least likely to be
satisfactory.

1. Most CFLs are not moisture proof and will fail if allowed to get damp
inside.

2. Constant cycling dramatically shortens lifespan.

3. Most CFLs are slow to give full light output, the opposite of what one
needs in a bathroom.

SNIP repeat of part of this

Gotta agree, I put in a whole bunch of 'vanity' CFL's around the
bathroom mirror. That was a few years ago, they are slowly dying and
I'm replacing them with the original incandescent. (I assume the
death is caused my the humid environs of the bathroom.)

I have mostly good experience with both CFLs and regular fluoreascents
in bathrooms. My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters
and 60 Hz inductor ballasts lasting roughly 1500 operating hours, due to
this type of starting rougher than other starting methods and short on
time per start. Even with gentler starting methods used by electronic
ballasts, life is likely to be less than full rated. The next biggest
issue appears to me to be color rendering of skin, makeup and clothing.

I have heard of the humidity issue before, but my experience with
bathroom and outdoor CFL usage leads me to believe it is a minor one.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[Phil Allison]

" Don Klipstein = Fucking Stupid Old Fart "

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

"PL" types such as F13TT, F13DTT and F26DTT do.

** Those are still regular INSTALLED fluoros - you imbecile.

Colors are still not quite the same.

** Piss off - you PITA old fool.

I have heard of the humidity issue before,

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

I have used choke ballasted and electronic-ballasted CFLs in my bathroom
since 1991 without this problem occurring even once.

** Then YOU have no idea what the problem is and so have NOTHING to say
about it.

Message to Don:
-------------------

Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!



...... Phil

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <7io7l7F323m36U1@mid.individual.net>, Phil Allison wrote:

"Don Klipstein = Stupid Old Fart "

I have mostly good experience with both CFLs and regular fluoreascents
in bathrooms.

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

"PL" types such as F13TT, F13DTT and F26DTT do.

The next biggest
issue appears to me to be color rendering of skin, makeup and clothing.

** Most CFLs are available in " warm white" colour temp - which gives
good skin tones.

Colors are still not quite the same. I find skin is shown more pinkish
under a CFL than under an incandescent of the same overall color. All
CFLs with the usual triphosphor formulation claim a color rendering index
of 82.

I have heard of the humidity issue before,

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

I have used choke ballasted and electronic-ballasted CFLs in my bathroom
since 1991 without this problem occurring even once.

Message to Don:
-------------------

Fact is, those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to
shut the fuck up.

Don has no sense at all.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[Phil Allison]

" Don Klipstein = a Fucking Stupid Old Fart "

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

"PL" types such as F13TT, F13DTT and F26DTT do.

** Those are still regular INSTALLED fluoros

- you FUCKING IMBECILE .

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

I have used choke ballasted and electronic-ballasted CFLs in my
bathroom
since 1991 without this problem occurring even once.

** Then YOU have no idea what the problem is and so have NOTHING to say
about it.

Except that if that particular problem was a really serious one,

** Serious enough for CFL makers to WARN USERS not to
put their CFLs in wet areas like bathrooms !!!!!


Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

Does it take a bullet in the head to shut you up ?

Fuckwit.



..... Phil

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <7it5h0F3187rdU1@mid.individual.net>, Phil Allison wrote:

" Don Klipstein = Fucking Stupid Old Fart "

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

"PL" types such as F13TT, F13DTT and F26DTT do.

** Those are still regular INSTALLED fluoros - you imbecile.

I have seen plenty of screw-in adapters to use F13TT/"PL-13",
F13DTT/"PLC-13", F9TT/"PL-9", and a few for F7TT/"PL-7" and F5TT/"PL-5".
Ones for the last one are still being used in part of the front lobby area
of my apartment building.

I even used those somewhat heavily during the 1990's before spiral
CFLs became common. I continued using some of them until at least
2002. After 2002, I used spirals in my bathroom with 100% satisfaction.

Colors are still not quite the same.

** Piss off - you PITA old fool.

I have heard of the humidity issue before,

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

I have used choke ballasted and electronic-ballasted CFLs in my bathroom
since 1991 without this problem occurring even once.

** Then YOU have no idea what the problem is and so have NOTHING to say
about it.

Except that if that particular problem was a really serious one, then I
expect that I would have run into it at least once while using exclusively
CFLs in my bathroom, and ones with electronic ballasts and circuit boards
since 2002.

Message to Don:
-------------------

Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[Phil Allison]

" Don Klipstein = a 100% Fucking Stupid Old Fart "



**Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

So SHUT THE FUCK UP about them !!!!


Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

Does it take a bullet in the head to shut you up ?

IGNORANCE cannot be used as KNOWLEDGE !!

You fucking stupid autistic pig.




....... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

" Don Klipstein = a 100% Fucking Stupid Old Fart "


**Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

So SHUT THE FUCK UP about them !!!!
-----------------------------------------------

Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

Does it take a bullet in the head to shut you up ?

IGNORANCE cannot be used as KNOWLEDGE !!

You fucking stupid autistic pig.




....... Phil

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <7it9p1F31d2o5U1@mid.individual.net>, Phil Allison wrote:

" Don Klipstein = a Fucking Stupid Old Fart "

** Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

My biggest problem was ones with glow switch starters ..

** CFLs do not have them.

"PL" types such as F13TT, F13DTT and F26DTT do.

<You snipped my examples with significant use as to where these are
not regular installed fluoros>

** Those are still regular INSTALLED fluoros

With the exception of use of screw-in adapters (with ballasts) for
using these in sockets originally intended for incandescents. This
was a major use of CFLs before screw-base CFLs with integral electronic
ballasts became common, and that occurred mostly with the spiral ones.

- you FUCKING IMBECILE .

** Not humidity - but CONDENSATION from steam in a bathroom.

This shows the insides of a typical CFL.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm#vis

Many CLFs have ventilation holes that allow moisture inside.

Switching 240 volts AC ( =340 volts DC) onto a wet PCB = BANG.

I have used choke ballasted and electronic-ballasted CFLs in my
bathroom
since 1991 without this problem occurring even once.

** Then YOU have no idea what the problem is and so have NOTHING to say
about it.

Except that if that particular problem was a really serious one,

** Serious enough for CFL makers to WARN USERS not to
put their CFLs in wet areas like bathrooms !!!!!

I have thoroughly read many CFL packages, and none warn against use in
bathrooms. Furthermore, vanity lights in most bathrooms are not "wet
areas" that are problematically wet to CFLs.

I have used exclusively integral-electronic-ballast CFLs in my bathroom
vanity starting in 2002, and those replaced screw-in combos of
ballast-adapters and CFLs with glow switch starters that I used before
then since late 1991. I have yet to find a moisture-related failure here,
and I do not know anyone who has. My only bathroom CFL failures had them
dying with obvious symptoms of normal end-of-life, accelerated by frequent
switching, worse so with the ones of older technology with glow switch
starters.

Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

Does it take a bullet in the head to shut you up ?

Fuckwit.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

 

[Don Klipstein]

In article <7itfn3F32q44eU1@mid.individual.net>, Phil Allison wrote:

" Don Klipstein = a 100% Fucking Stupid Old Fart "

**Regular fluoros are simply NOT the issue.

So SHUT THE FUCK UP about them !!!!

Those who know NOTHING about a problem ought to have the sense to

SHUT THE FUCK UP !!!

Does it take a bullet in the head to shut you up ?

IGNORANCE cannot be used as KNOWLEDGE !!

You fucking stupid autistic pig.

Given how much I was talking about CFLs including all fluorescents
that I mentioned of PL / PLC / TT / DTT type and also including screw
base spiral CFLs, I was talking mainly, almost exclusively, about CFLs.

And I used almost exclusively CFLs and absolutely no "regular
fluorescents" for bathroom illumination since 1991, with complete lack of
the problem that you mentioned.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)