Life of round DIN connectors ?

[Andre Majorel]

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Buy in bulk, that's my advice." -- Lemmy

 

[Baron]

Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail, but I have
had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating part. After that all
you can do is replace the socket. Which sadly I've had to do several
times. Same with USB sockets. How people manage to break the plastic
tongue off beats me !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Baron]

GMAN wrote:

In article <g5b3oj$1ue$1@aioe.org>, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail, but I
have
had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating part. After that all
you can do is replace the socket. Which sadly I've had to do several
times. Same with USB sockets. How people manage to break the plastic
tongue off beats me !

I hate DIN sockets and DC sockets where the only way the socket is
anchored is by the solder joint to the board. Why dont more of these
use a screw thru the top to anchor the socket????

Replacing the DC socket on a PCB is easy compared to the USB and Dual
Mini DIN ones. Although I have seen the DC sockets with a metal shroud
over them that is soldered to the board ! They are a lot more robust.
Its usually the pin that breaks off though.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Andre Majorel]

On 2008-07-12, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail,
but I have had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating
part. After that all you can do is replace the socket. Which
sadly I've had to do several times.

I see, thanks. I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home
brewed polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to
20 kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

Modular connectors (RJ45-style) have for them low cost and the
availability of pre-made patch cords. But when life expectancy
is specified, it is very low, on the order of dozens of cycles.

High quality DE-9 are available but even the Canon ones are only
spec'd to a few hundred insertions at most. And there is the
problem of making a D-shaped hole in the panel.

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.
In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Buy in bulk, that's my advice." -- Lemmy

 

[Baron]

Andre Majorel wrote:

On 2008-07-12, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail,
but I have had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating
part. After that all you can do is replace the socket. Which
sadly I've had to do several times.

I see, thanks. I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home
brewed polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to
20 kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

The frequencies are not a problem for the mini DIN and I doubt that the
natural impedance is either !

Modular connectors (RJ45-style) have for them low cost and the
availability of pre-made patch cords. But when life expectancy
is specified, it is very low, on the order of dozens of cycles.

AFAIW the mini DIN is similar ! Just a few hundred !

High quality DE-9 are available but even the Canon ones are only
spec'd to a few hundred insertions at most. And there is the
problem of making a D-shaped hole in the panel.

Their expensive and the punch for the hole is around ÂŁ25 !

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.

Most if not all low cost connectors don't have high make/break
lifetimes !

In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

Wouldn't it be prudent to have a chat with somebody like AMP's tech
support people. Quite a while back I needed a high voltage connector
5.5Kv and they were very helpful.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Andre Majorel]

On 2008-07-19, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

Andre Majorel wrote:
On 2008-07-12, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail,
but I have had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating
part. After that all you can do is replace the socket. Which
sadly I've had to do several times.

I see, thanks. I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home
brewed polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to
20 kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

The frequencies are not a problem for the mini DIN and I doubt
that the natural impedance is either !

That was my way of saying that the currents involved are on the
order of 0.1 mA so a very low contact resistance is not needed.

Modular connectors (RJ45-style) have for them low cost and the
availability of pre-made patch cords. But when life expectancy
is specified, it is very low, on the order of dozens of cycles.

AFAIW the mini DIN is similar ! Just a few hundred !

I was afraid of that...

High quality DE-9 are available but even the Canon ones are only
spec'd to a few hundred insertions at most. And there is the
problem of making a D-shaped hole in the panel.

Their expensive and the punch for the hole is around Ł25 !

Yes, and punching a hole with a hand punch and die is rather
time consuming in my experience.

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.

Most if not all low cost connectors don't have high make/break
lifetimes !

With the notable exception of 1/4" phone jacks. I need an 8-way
1/4" phone jack.

In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

Wouldn't it be prudent to have a chat with somebody like AMP's
tech support people. Quite a while back I needed a high
voltage connector 5.5Kv and they were very helpful.

Good idea, thanks.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Buy in bulk, that's my advice." -- Lemmy

 

[Baron]

Andre Majorel Inscribed thus:

On 2008-07-19, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:
On 2008-07-12, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

Manufacturers tend not to give a figure for the number of
insertions their DIN connectors can take. I've never seen one
fail but those don't tend to be the type you plug/unplug ten
times a day. Does anyone have data or experience with that ?

Yes I do this far more often ! I've yet to have a plug fail,
but I have had the odd socket loose a leg from the mating
part. After that all you can do is replace the socket. Which
sadly I've had to do several times.

I see, thanks. I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home
brewed polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to
20 kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

The frequencies are not a problem for the mini DIN and I doubt
that the natural impedance is either !

That was my way of saying that the currents involved are on the
order of 0.1 mA so a very low contact resistance is not needed.

With very low currents I would have thought that you would need a low
contact resistance and probably gold plating as well.

Modular connectors (RJ45-style) have for them low cost and the
availability of pre-made patch cords. But when life expectancy
is specified, it is very low, on the order of dozens of cycles.

AFAIW the mini DIN is similar ! Just a few hundred !

I was afraid of that...

High quality DE-9 are available but even the Canon ones are only
spec'd to a few hundred insertions at most. And there is the
problem of making a D-shaped hole in the panel.

Their expensive and the punch for the hole is around ÂŁ25 !

Yes, and punching a hole with a hand punch and die is rather
time consuming in my experience.

Yes I agree it can be. I used to have a bench press that I used for
punching chassis. It took more time jigging up or drilling pilot hoes
to accurately locate the punch than it was worth.

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.

Most if not all low cost connectors don't have high make/break
lifetimes !

With the notable exception of 1/4" phone jacks. I need an 8-way
1/4" phone jack.

I've see six pole post office type jacks ! But I wouldn't like to have
to buy any. They must have cost the post office a fortune.

In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

You could always make a test jig for that job.

Wouldn't it be prudent to have a chat with somebody like AMP's
tech support people. Quite a while back I needed a high
voltage connector 5.5Kv and they were very helpful.

Good idea, thanks.

Let me know how you get on.

--
Best Reagrds:
Baron.

 

[Andre Majorel]

On 2008-07-23, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

Andre Majorel Inscribed thus:
On 2008-07-19, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home brewed
polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to 20
kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

The frequencies are not a problem for the mini DIN and I doubt
that the natural impedance is either !

That was my way of saying that the currents involved are on the
order of 0.1 mA so a very low contact resistance is not needed.

With very low currents I would have thought that you would need a low
contact resistance and probably gold plating as well.

My possibly naive thinking was that with so little current,
you wouldn't need a super-low contact resistance to achieve
low voltage drop and low dissipated power. What am I missing ?

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.

Most if not all low cost connectors don't have high make/break
lifetimes !

With the notable exception of 1/4" phone jacks. I need an 8-way
1/4" phone jack.

I've see six pole post office type jacks ! But I wouldn't
like to have to buy any. They must have cost the post office
a fortune.

Apple used a 4-way jack in one of their insanely great projects.

Let me guess... Single-sourced from a factory in Taiwan that
won't even speak to you unless you need 10,000 a month... :-D

In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

You could always make a test jig for that job.

from your description of the failure mode (one branch of the
fork breaking), regular visual inspection would be the fastest
method.

Wouldn't it be prudent to have a chat with somebody like AMP's
tech support people. Quite a while back I needed a high
voltage connector 5.5Kv and they were very helpful.

Good idea, thanks.

Let me know how you get on.

Will do, if/when I get around to building *that* pyramid.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Buy in bulk, that's my advice." -- Lemmy

 

[Baron]

Andre Majorel wrote:

On 2008-07-23, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel Inscribed thus:
On 2008-07-19, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:

I'm after an 8- or 9-way connector for a home brewed
polyphonic modular synth. Frequencies involved are DC to 20
kHz, 30 Vpp, input impedances on the order of 100 k.

The frequencies are not a problem for the mini DIN and I doubt
that the natural impedance is either !

That was my way of saying that the currents involved are on the
order of 0.1 mA so a very low contact resistance is not needed.

With very low currents I would have thought that you would need a low
contact resistance and probably gold plating as well.

My possibly naive thinking was that with so little current,
you wouldn't need a super-low contact resistance to achieve
low voltage drop and low dissipated power. What am I missing ?

Noise ! This is a potential problem with any connectors particularly in
audio circuits.

It better be a low-cost part because I'll need several hundreds.

Most if not all low cost connectors don't have high make/break
lifetimes !

With the notable exception of 1/4" phone jacks. I need an 8-way
1/4" phone jack.

I've see six pole post office type jacks ! But I wouldn't
like to have to buy any. They must have cost the post office
a fortune.

Apple used a 4-way jack in one of their insanely great projects.

Let me guess... Single-sourced from a factory in Taiwan that
won't even speak to you unless you need 10,000 a month... :-D

Quite probably !

In itself, replacing a panel connector is not a big deal if
there is a wire-to-board connector behind it. The problem is
that spotting one bad contact can take a while.

You could always make a test jig for that job.

from your description of the failure mode (one branch of the
fork breaking), regular visual inspection would be the fastest
method.

Yes I agree it probably would. I have to use a big magnifying glass to
see the ends of the tines. The other thing that I see quite often is
the someone has stood on the plug and bent the shroud and sometimes one
or two of the pins. (usually keyboards and mice)

Along similar lines I had a client this morning with a broken USB
connector on his computer. Now how on earth do you manage to break off
the white plastic bit that supports the contacts ? Fortunately its on
the front panel, so its not as time consuming a repair as replacing a
motherboard one.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Baron]

Andre Majorel wrote:

On 2008-07-30, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel wrote:
On 2008-07-23, Baron <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
Andre Majorel Inscribed thus:

That was my way of saying that the currents involved are on the
order of 0.1 mA so a very low contact resistance is not needed.

With very low currents I would have thought that you would
need a low contact resistance and probably gold plating as
well.

My possibly naive thinking was that with so little current,
you wouldn't need a super-low contact resistance to achieve
low voltage drop and low dissipated power. What am I missing ?

Noise ! This is a potential problem with any connectors
particularly in audio circuits.

Can anyone point me to an online document going into the when,
why and how of that ? I searched for "contact noise" and
variations thereof but got nowhere.

That surprises me ! I would have thought that there would be some
information about it. Maybe it has a different description ?

Along similar lines I had a client this morning with a broken
USB connector on his computer. Now how on earth do you manage
to break off the white plastic bit that supports the contacts ?

Maybe they stepped on the cable. The plug gives quite a bit of
leverage for the height of shell.

I didn't see what they had plugged into it... I just get to fix
it !


Hi Andre,
I'm not going to be around for the next four weeks. I'll be in Calais
tomorrow evening heading for the sunnier parts of France ! So no
computers, internet or servicing ! Just a total get away from it all !
Catch you when I get back !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.