Lego Motor as dynamo and transforming 9v 350mA into 600V, 10

[Ken Moffett]

simmingk@gmail.com wrote in
news:d09aedc4-3f02-48c1-8379-16fb3c73ecb9
@c4g2000hsg.googlegro
ups.com:

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic
hydrogenerator which could turn a Lego motor (acting as a
dynamo) to turn another Lego motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at
very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a
video segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/v
i
ew/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive
two water pumps with current available devices in the
market?

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

Sincerely,
joseph sim

OK...am I missing something with this system? Beyond the
9V/350mA > 600V/10A.

"The water starts at ground level and is pushed to the siphon
hydro-generator far below on the seabed."

So...they're letting water fall down a tube from sea level,
to the inlet of a turbine at some ocean depth. Driving
turbines work on a differential of pressure between the inlet
and outlet. Water flowing down the tube from the surface has
more pressure than the outlet which is at the static pressure
of the ocean at depth?

What am I missing?

Ken

 

[Bob Monsen]

<simmingk@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d09aedc4-3f02-48c1-8379-16fb3c73ecb9@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic hydrogenerator which
could turn a Lego motor (acting as a dynamo) to turn another Lego
motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a video
segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive two water
pumps with current available devices in the market?

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

Sincerely,
joseph sim

There is a guy who uses this kind of technology to power a village (which is
too far away from the power grid to get commercial power) in the Domincan
Republic. However, 600V and 10A is probably not feasible (maybe a
translation issue?). He does a typical (for us) 120VAC output, which is then
converted into 12V at the various homes to power lights and radios and such.
I think he said he does 20 homes, although this was about 4 years ago, so I
may have forgotten the details.

China is the world leader in micro-hydro power, so you should try to get
references from China.

http://www.renewable-energy-world.com/display_article/272801/121/ARTCL/none/RHEAT/1/Global-revolution/

 

[Tim Wescott]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:13:22 -0800, simmingk wrote:

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic hydrogenerator which could
turn a Lego motor (acting as a dynamo) to turn another Lego motor
(approx. 9V, 350mA) at very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a video
segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/
view/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive two water
pumps with current available devices in the market?

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

Sincerely,
joseph sim

Let me expand on the answers you've gotten so far.

Physicists make their life easy by using the law of conservation of
energy: for any bounded system, energy in = energy out + stored energy.
No one's proved this from first principals, but it's never been observed
to fail.

So you have a system that consists of your dynamo, a converter, and your
pump. If you assume that none of these devices store much energy, then
to sustain operation power in must equal power out (power is just energy
per unit time, after all).

So your pump needs (600V * 10A) to operate, or 6000 watts. Your motor
generates 9V at 350mA, or a hair over 3 watts.

Do you see the disconnect?

The way to find the power for your 6kW pumps is to find a generator that
can generate in excess of 6kW, and a way to turn it. This is _not_ a
trivial project unless you count waltzing down to your local home
improvements store to buy a generator as 'educational'.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Greg Neill]

<simmingk@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d09aedc4-3f02-48c1-8379-16fb3c73ecb9@c4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic hydrogenerator which
could turn a Lego motor (acting as a dynamo) to turn another Lego
motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a video
segment):-

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive two water
pumps with current available devices in the market?

Use the 9V @ 350mA to charge batteries, then use
the batteries to drive an inverter.

32 hours of charging the batteries will yield less
than a minute's worth of 600V @ 10A.

 

[John Fields]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:13:22 -0800 (PST), simmingk@gmail.com wrote:

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic hydrogenerator which
could turn a Lego motor (acting as a dynamo) to turn another Lego
motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a video
segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive two water
pumps with current available devices in the market?

---
Simply put, you can't.

Watts is watts, and 9V * 0.35A cannot be transformed into 600V *
10A.
---

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

---
1. In English, the first letter of a sentence and the personal
pronoun "I" are always capitalized.

2. From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siphon


"The maximum height of the intermediate point (the crest) is limited
by atmospheric pressure and the density of the liquid. At the high
point of the siphon, gravity tends to draw the liquid down in both
directions, creating a partial vacuum. Atmospheric pressure on the
top surface of the higher reservoir is transmitted through the
liquid in the reservoir and up the siphon tube and prevents a vacuum
from forming. When the pressure exerted by the weight of the height
of the column of liquid equals that of atmospheric pressure, a
partial vacuum will form at the high point and the siphon effect is
ended. For water at standard pressure, the maximum height is
approximately 10 m (33 feet); for mercury it is 76 cm (30 inches)."


--
JF

 

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic hydrogenerator which
could turn a Lego motor (acting as a dynamo) to turn another Lego
motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a video
segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive two water
pumps with current available devices in the market?

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

Sincerely,
joseph sim

 

[amdx]

"Ken Moffett" <KLMoffett@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9A237371165E7qwerty@216.196.97.136...

simmingk@gmail.com wrote in
news:d09aedc4-3f02-48c1-8379-16fb3c73ecb9
@c4g2000hsg.googlegro
ups.com:

Dear All,

i am a teacher from Kranji Secondary School in Singapore.

recently, we developed an underwater siphonic
hydrogenerator which could turn a Lego motor (acting as a
dynamo) to turn another Lego motor (approx. 9V, 350mA) at
very low frequency.

the following website shows our story (it used to have a
video segment):-
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/v
i
ew/317603/1/.html

how can i transform the voltage into 600V and 10A to drive
two water pumps with current available devices in the
market?

in advance, Thank You Very Much for your advice and help.

my email is sim_ming_kwang@moe.edu.sg

Sincerely,
joseph sim

OK...am I missing something with this system? Beyond the
9V/350mA > 600V/10A.

"The water starts at ground level and is pushed to the siphon
hydro-generator far below on the seabed."

So...they're letting water fall down a tube from sea level,
to the inlet of a turbine at some ocean depth. Driving
turbines work on a differential of pressure between the inlet
and outlet. Water flowing down the tube from the surface has
more pressure than the outlet which is at the static pressure
of the ocean at depth?

What am I missing?

Ken

A belief in perpetual motion!

Mike

 

no, it is water from within the body of water (sea, lake) will enter
from the siphon tube travel up a height and falls directly onto the
turbine as the air pressure inside the container is lower than that of
the water pressure which surronds the container.

as such, it becomes an underwater siphon which does not need to worry
about the high point and low point concept as long as the siphon tubes
remains underwater.

water outside of container which is immersed = high
air pressure inside of container = low
siphon exists --> hence, thinking out of the box, i change (high point
of atmospheric) --> (low point of atmospheric)

into (high pressure of water) --> (low point of air pressure)

this project was funded by Citibank two years ago and initially we
started it for underwater environment suction to keep the environment
clean.


joseph sim

 

[Gareth]

simmingk@gmail.com wrote:

no, it is water from within the body of water (sea, lake) will enter
from the siphon tube travel up a height and falls directly onto the
turbine as the air pressure inside the container is lower than that of
the water pressure which surronds the container.

as such, it becomes an underwater siphon which does not need to worry
about the high point and low point concept as long as the siphon tubes
remains underwater.

water outside of container which is immersed = high
air pressure inside of container = low
siphon exists --> hence, thinking out of the box, i change (high point
of atmospheric) --> (low point of atmospheric)

into (high pressure of water) --> (low point of air pressure)

So you just have water flowing into a hollow container through a syphon?

Do you realise that the syphon doesn't help? You would get just as much
energy if you just put a whole in the side of the container?

Then you have to pump the water out of the container. This cannot be
done without using MORE energy than you generated, unless you pump the
water out to a lower level than the height of the original water level.
If there is a lower level to pump the water to you would be better off
just letting the water flow through the turbine to this lower level
without the syphon, pump and container.

this project was funded by Citibank two years ago and initially we
started it for underwater environment suction to keep the environment
clean.


joseph sim

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
To reply to me directly:

Replace privacy.net with: totalise DOT co DOT uk and replace me with
gareth.harris

 

[amdx]

<simmingk@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7a73150e-3025-4d95-86a3-b49198997bec@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...

no, it is water from within the body of water (sea, lake) will enter
from the siphon tube travel up a height and falls directly onto the
turbine as the air pressure inside the container is lower than that of
the water pressure which surronds the container.

as such, it becomes an underwater siphon which does not need to worry
about the high point and low point concept as long as the siphon tubes
remains underwater.

water outside of container which is immersed = high
air pressure inside of container = low
siphon exists --> hence, thinking out of the box, i change (high point
of atmospheric) --> (low point of atmospheric)

into (high pressure of water) --> (low point of air pressure)

this project was funded by Citibank two years ago and initially we
started it for underwater environment suction to keep the environment
clean.


joseph sim

Do you have a picture of this system: high pressure, low pressure,

underwater siphon. I don't get it from the description.
Mike