led's

On Friday, August 2, 2013 6:43:51 PM UTC-4, John Fields wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 12:49:08 -0700, John Larkin

jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:



The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in

the gas. Gotta be noisy.



---

The filament of an incandescent lamp is made of pure tungsten, which

has a positive temperature coefficient of resistance and is

extensively heat-treated in order to make it ductile enough to survive

the drawing and coiling process required to form it into the shape

required for a particular filament.



Thermistors are an entirely different breed of cat in that they're

constructed by pressing and sintering metal oxides, generally have a

negative temperature coefficient, and can only be enticed to emit

humanly visible photons once, and then only for a very short time.

---



One issue is that the filament loops were also an inductor and they would pickup local magnetic field interference. (Mostly from the room lights, which I couldn't turn off because those in the workshop would have objected.)



---

Marie and Pierre Curie sifted through a ton of pitchblende, in the

winter and in unheated quarters, and discovered Radium.



You couldn't make your measurements after everyone else left your
comfy lab and you had it all to yourself?
Yeah the workshop was at a university.. not my comfy lab.


So before I try this again I need some big torodial inductors and some mu metal to >>shield the bulb.



---

Why?
Click to expand...
Why what? Why try again? why a big toroid?, why shield the bulb?
---



But this resistance question is great! What does resistance really mean? (Should I be thinking in terms of damping or energy?)



---

It's arguably best to think of resistance as collisions between

electrons which liberate heat.
Click to expand...
Well there are other 'kinds' of electrical resistance.. but I agree electron scattering is the most common.

But if we stick to light bulbs, then there is a question of the DC resistance vs the dynamical resistance.

For instance if I was to use a bulb as part of small signal RC low pass filter. (The bulb is the R) Then I think it will be the dynamical resistance (dV/dI)


----



AC coupled into the filament, it looks just like a resistor. I'm not

sure what the small-signal value will be.



---

With AC coupled into the filament, its wound nature will cause it to

look inductive, so it can't look like a pure resistance regardless of

how lightly it's driven.
Click to expand...
Well sure, even without the turns it has inductance and capacitance.

George H.
--

JF
Click to expand...
 
On Friday, August 2, 2013 3:49:08 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:52:14 -0700 (PDT), George Herold

gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:



On Friday, August 2, 2013 12:04:13 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 07:13:30 -0700 (PDT), George Herold <gherold@teachspin.com



wrote:







On Thursday, August 1, 2013 11:23:52 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:



On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 19:35:47 -0500, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com







snip







You're confused.















Since Ohm's law is used to determine the relationship between voltage,







current, and resistance - AT A SINGLE POINT - it, alone, can say







nothing about the linearity of the relationship between voltage and







current.















That's goofy.















---







Not at all, it's just true.















If you choose to contest the veracity of my claim, then I expect you







to prove, mathematically, that I'm wrong.















Can you?







---















It's not a law, it's just two numbers that you enjoy







dividing because you think it means something.















---







Wrong.















It is a law, and it defines the instantaneous relationship between







voltage, current, and resistance in a circuit.















The way you use it, it's not a law, it's a definition.







Hey this is kinda interesting. (But let's not have a big John vs John confrontation.)







So last week I was running this workshop on noise. I knew I'd have some spare time while the attendees were doing stuff. So I took along a setup to measure the Johnson noise of a light bulb with a DC current going through it. (The measruements were a bit of a pain, I had to abandon the inductor I was using as a bias element and go with a simple resistor...anyway that's not important.)



So at some voltage across the light bulb I measured the current. And I took that ratio to be the resistance of the bulb. And then I assumed that the bulb would be making Johnson noise given by v^2 = 4kTR*BW. Where I'd see more noise because of increased temperature of the bulb.



(The idea was to try and measure the temperature.)



Do you think there is something wrong with this 'theory'?



Does the light bulb have resistance?



Does it have Johnson noise?



What's the 'correct' relation between them?







George H.







Sure, any resistor has Johnson noise.







If you were to drive the filament through an inductor or a noiseless current



source, and couple a small AC signal into it with a capacitor, at higher



frequencies it would look like a resistor of some ohms, and it would have the



corresponding Johnson noise. If the filament is incandescent, the Johnson noise



will be high.



Yup, that's what I tried (inductor from voltage source) (Driving a light bulb with a current source is asking for trouble. IMHO)

Problem was I didn't have a big enough toroid and the coil inductor picked up magnetic noise big time. (I already knew this, but sometimes I need my face rubbed into something a few times till I remember.)



So I got some data with a resistor as bias, but at the highest temperatures the bias resistance was much smaller than the DC bulb resistance and it shunted most of the noise to ground.







That equivalent Johnson resistance would not be the DC E/I and will (probably)



be close to the slope, dE/dI at the operating point. Thermal mass makes dE/dI



frequency dependant. The exact math is beyond my pay grade.



Hmm.. OK I'll have to think some more... why dE/dI?



RE the thermal mass: The time constant for a bulb is something like a second maybe 10mS at the fastest. So only at low frequency is that going to be an issue.



I did once make a photo-optical link that transmitted usable audio,

from a radio. With a flashlight bulb.











I bet a filament has mountains of low frequency noise. Might be interesting to



measure.



Well I had the thing perched on bubble wrap to try and keep the building shake out of it. Better might be to suspend it. I would sometimes see a bunch of low frequency 'crude'. Which I assumed was adjacent filament loops bumping into each other. But there were long periods of relative quite. (I also could filter out the LF stuff.)



The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in

the gas. Gotta be noisy.
Click to expand...
Grin, there's not that much gas inside the bulb. It really wasn't too bad..

George H.
One issue is that the filament loops were also an inductor and they would pickup local magnetic field interference. (Mostly from the room lights, which I couldn't turn off because those in the workshop would have objected..) The pickup would increase at higher bulb currents.. which still has me a bit confused. So before I try this again I need some big torodial inductors and some mu metal to shield the bulb.



But this resistance question is great! What does resistance really mean? (Should I be thinking in terms of damping or energy?)



AC coupled into the filament, it looks just like a resistor. I'm not

sure what the small-signal value will be.





--



John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc



jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com

http://www.highlandtechnology.com



Precision electronic instrumentation

Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators

Custom laser drivers and controllers

Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links

VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
Click to expand...
 
On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message

news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:



The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in

the gas. Gotta be noisy.



Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're

using krypton in some now.





Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy a

flashlight with one in it.



There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type

flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs round

the reflector.
Click to expand...
You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.

George H.
 
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message

news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:



The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in

the gas. Gotta be noisy.



Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're

using krypton in some now.





Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy a

flashlight with one in it.



There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type

flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs
round

the reflector.

You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.
Click to expand...

Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still be a
few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small assortment
of dynamo bulbs.

As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been banned and
anything lower is thin on the ground.

They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass bulb with
a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but that is
probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the
choice.

LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet are
some way short of matching CFLs.
 
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb' will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north coast of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and then
the
killer frogs attack.
Click to expand...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AOfbnGkuGc
 
On Sun, 4 Aug 2013 15:57:24 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message

news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...

On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:



The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in

the gas. Gotta be noisy.



Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're

using krypton in some now.





Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy a

flashlight with one in it.



There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type

flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs
round

the reflector.

You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.


Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still be a
few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small assortment
of dynamo bulbs.
Click to expand...
---
Regardless of what's happening in the UK, your statement:

"Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy a flashlight with one in it."

is wrong, yes?

--
JF
 
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57:24 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message

news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message



news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...



On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:







The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in



the gas. Gotta be noisy.







Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're



using krypton in some now.











Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy a



flashlight with one in it.







There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type



flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs

round



the reflector.



You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.





Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still be a

few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small assortment

of dynamo bulbs.



As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been banned and

anything lower is thin on the ground.



They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass bulb with

a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but that is

probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the

choice.



LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet are

some way short of matching CFLs.
Click to expand...
Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=422+2203+202082&Ntk=gensearch&Ntt=incandescent+bulb&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial

George H.
 
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:464f08d6-d7be-4ac1-b596-68b6255b30e4@googlegroups.com...
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57:24 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message

news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message



news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...



On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:







The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence
in



the gas. Gotta be noisy.







Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're



using krypton in some now.











Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy a



flashlight with one in it.







There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type



flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs

round



the reflector.



You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.





Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still be a

few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small
assortment

of dynamo bulbs.



As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been banned
and

anything lower is thin on the ground.



They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass bulb
with

a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but that
is

probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the

choice.



LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet are

some way short of matching CFLs.

Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?
Click to expand...
Never heard of it, so maybe not in the UK or only in cities.
 
On 8/5/2013 3:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:464f08d6-d7be-4ac1-b596-68b6255b30e4@googlegroups.com...
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57:24 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message

news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message



news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...



On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:







The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own
turbulence >> >> in



the gas. Gotta be noisy.







Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're



using krypton in some now.











Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb
is >> buy a



flashlight with one in it.







There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type



flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs

round



the reflector.



You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.





Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still
be a

few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small
assortment

of dynamo bulbs.



As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been
banned and

anything lower is thin on the ground.



They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass
bulb with

a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but
that is

probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the

choice.



LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet are

some way short of matching CFLs.

Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?

Never heard of it, so maybe not in the UK or only in cities.
Click to expand...
Element 14 was called farnell. They are at least in the UK, Germany,
Austria and the Netherlands. I do not know if they have connections with
Newark.

Draw back is that as private person you can not buy there, atleast not
in Austria and Germany.
It took me a long time to get a Raspberry pi.
 
"tuinkabouter" <dachthetniet@net.invalid> wrote in message
news:ktod4f$385$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/5/2013 3:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:464f08d6-d7be-4ac1-b596-68b6255b30e4@googlegroups.com...
On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57:24 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message

news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...

On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message



news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...



On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:







The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own
turbulence >> >> in



the gas. Gotta be noisy.







Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think
they're



using krypton in some now.











Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb
is >> buy a



flashlight with one in it.







There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type



flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs

round



the reflector.



You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.





Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still
be a

few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small
assortment

of dynamo bulbs.



As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been
banned and

anything lower is thin on the ground.



They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass
bulb with

a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but
that is

probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the

choice.



LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet
are

some way short of matching CFLs.

Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?

Never heard of it, so maybe not in the UK or only in cities.

Element 14 was called farnell. They are at least in the UK, Germany,
Austria and the Netherlands. I do not know if they have connections with
Newark.
Click to expand...
From time to time I used to order a package from Farnell - usually 75% stuff
just to make the minimum order to get the bits I want.

Funnily enough I never looked there for bulbs.
 
On Monday, August 5, 2013 10:35:17 AM UTC-4, tuinkabouter wrote:
On 8/5/2013 3:32 PM, Ian Field wrote:





"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message

news:464f08d6-d7be-4ac1-b596-68b6255b30e4@googlegroups.com...

On Sunday, August 4, 2013 10:57:24 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message



news:8bd8878f-26cb-489e-af3f-0f4c3789bbd5@googlegroups.com...



On Saturday, August 3, 2013 11:26:06 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message







news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...







On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:















The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own

turbulence >> >> in







the gas. Gotta be noisy.















Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're







using krypton in some now.























Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb

is >> buy a







flashlight with one in it.















There are still one or two discount stores that carry bulb type







flashlights - but increasingly they're dual type with a ring of LEDs



round







the reflector.







You can still buy light bulbs from Newark.











Flashlight bulbs are pretty much extinct in the UK - there may still

be a



few long established independent bicycle shops that carry a small

assortment



of dynamo bulbs.







As for household lightbulbs; I think anything over 60W has been

banned and



anything lower is thin on the ground.







They have introduced halogen capsules enclosed in a regular glass

bulb with



a standard (for UK) bayonet cap - the highest I've seen is 70W, but

that is



probably as bright as the 100W filament most people would buy given the



choice.







LED house lights are starting to appear in supermarkets - but as yet are



some way short of matching CFLs.



Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?



Never heard of it, so maybe not in the UK or only in cities.



Element 14 was called farnell. They are at least in the UK, Germany,

Austria and the Netherlands. I do not know if they have connections with

Newark.



Draw back is that as private person you can not buy there, atleast not

in Austria and Germany.

It took me a long time to get a Raspberry pi.
Click to expand...
Wow, that stinks. So where do you get electronics?

George H.
 
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb' will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north coast of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the end of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.
Click to expand...
You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!

Sticking a frog on the business end of the barrel to quench the muzzle
flash would seriously affect the trajectory of the bullet, idiot.
Click to expand...
Can you prove that mathematically?


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
 
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:hvsvv8hgvg71og8q9sguaeavmqmdbcen9i@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north coast
of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the end
of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!
Click to expand...
You expected better from that dumbass!!!
 
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:12:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:hvsvv8hgvg71og8q9sguaeavmqmdbcen9i@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north coast
of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the end
of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!

You expected better from that dumbass!!!
Click to expand...
There are radar systems that track incoming rounds and fire on the
enemy guns even before the enemy rounds hit the ground. It wouldn't at
all surprise me if an M1 tank can put a cannon round on a sniper's
muzzle flash in a second or two, before the sniper's round even
bounces off the tank.

But anyone who knows so much about Ohm's Law is probably an expert on
military matters, too.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
 
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:3h0009pdat645kbjtq6lq97qe371tapgpj@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:12:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:hvsvv8hgvg71og8q9sguaeavmqmdbcen9i@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com
wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own
turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think
they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north
coast
of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and
then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the
end
of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!

You expected better from that dumbass!!!

There are radar systems that track incoming rounds and fire on the
enemy guns even before the enemy rounds hit the ground. It wouldn't at
all surprise me if an M1 tank can put a cannon round on a sniper's
muzzle flash in a second or two, before the sniper's round even
bounces off the tank.

But anyone who knows so much about Ohm's Law is probably an expert on
military matters, too.
Click to expand...
I could do with a scaled down version of that tracking radar.

In this hot weather with all the windows open, loads of flies get in, the
fly-spray seems inefective unless you score a direct hit (in some cases you
have to literally drown the little fuckers!) - the bastards come in low &
fast so its difficult to draw a bead on them.
 
On 8/5/2013 2:53 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb' will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north coast of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the end of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!


Sticking a frog on the business end of the barrel to quench the muzzle
flash would seriously affect the trajectory of the bullet, idiot.

Can you prove that mathematically?


As an NRA certified instructor I must advise against putting any
Click to expand...
obstruction in front of the muzzle. As far as accuracy, just a small
nick in the crown at those distances will lead your bullet wide astray.
Just sayin"
Tom
 
"Tom Biasi" <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:XbULt.360973$aW2.170729@fx13.iad...
On 8/5/2013 2:53 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think
they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north
coast of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and
then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the
end of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!


Sticking a frog on the business end of the barrel to quench the muzzle
flash would seriously affect the trajectory of the bullet, idiot.

Can you prove that mathematically?


As an NRA certified instructor I must advise against putting any
obstruction in front of the muzzle. As far as accuracy, just a small nick
in the crown at those distances will lead your bullet wide astray.
Just sayin"
Tom
Click to expand...
I got the idea from a comedy duo of DJs who had a show on BBC R1 (Mark &
Lard).

Last I heard, they got kicked off R1 and moved to R2.
 
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:30:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:3h0009pdat645kbjtq6lq97qe371tapgpj@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:12:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:hvsvv8hgvg71og8q9sguaeavmqmdbcen9i@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com
wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own
turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think
they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside, too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north
coast
of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and
then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the
end
of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!

You expected better from that dumbass!!!

There are radar systems that track incoming rounds and fire on the
enemy guns even before the enemy rounds hit the ground. It wouldn't at
all surprise me if an M1 tank can put a cannon round on a sniper's
muzzle flash in a second or two, before the sniper's round even
bounces off the tank.

But anyone who knows so much about Ohm's Law is probably an expert on
military matters, too.

I could do with a scaled down version of that tracking radar.

In this hot weather with all the windows open, loads of flies get in, the
fly-spray seems inefective unless you score a direct hit (in some cases you
have to literally drown the little fuckers!) - the bastards come in low &
fast so its difficult to draw a bead on them.
Click to expand...
I had this idea for a mosquito tracking LIDAR with a coaxial YAG laser
to blow them out of the air. Bzzzz bzzzz POW! But it's been done now.

I moved to San Francisco, where we rarely see a mosquito, so lost
interest in the project.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Precision electronic instrumentation
Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
Custom laser drivers and controllers
Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation
 
"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:j36009dha3ukiqs67rp0b934cb1qonu7d0@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 21:30:16 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:3h0009pdat645kbjtq6lq97qe371tapgpj@4ax.com...
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 20:12:11 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
news:hvsvv8hgvg71og8q9sguaeavmqmdbcen9i@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 17:32:27 -0500, John Fields
jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 20:49:36 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:j2kqv8h5o1ee7soju61guatk37gmmhrfv3@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 18:44:58 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in
message
news:b6bqv8demo1lahn0sbfcvdo6scpoqcdla9@4ax.com...
On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:26:06 +0100, "Ian Field"
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com
wrote:



"Jasen Betts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ktha04$ku1$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx...
On 2013-08-02, John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com
wrote:

The filament is a heated thermistor that makes its own
turbulence
in
the gas. Gotta be noisy.

Flashlight bulbs used to be "filled" with a vacuum, I think
they're
using krypton in some now.


Last time I checked - the only way you can buy a flashlight bulb
is
buy
a
flashlight with one in it.

You can buy spare Maglite bulbs.

I bought a Maglite - and quickly formed the conclusion that they're
overrated.

A 3W LED flashlight is brighter, uses less batteries and the 'bulb'
will
probably outlast me.

The Maglites are physically very rugged, sealed, waterproof. Lots
of
LED
lights
are junk and *don't* last long. The Maglite bulbs last because such
lights
are
not used for weeks at a time. They usually have a spare inside,
too.

I got stuck in the dark on a cliff-side hiking trail on the north
coast
of
Kauai. The sun goes down fast, splat-sizzle, at that latitude, and
then
the
killer frogs attack.

Have you been licking toads again!!!

(If you're playing sniper in the jungle - you can stick a frog on the
end
of
your rifle to quench the muzzle flash).

---
Quenching the muzzle flash is of no use at all when using a supersonic
projectile traversing a long distance, which is what snipers do, since
the flash will have died out long before the target is rendered meat
and the direction of the shot undiscernable.

You seem to assume that a single shot always takes out every enemy
resource, so advertising your location is no big deal.

Ha!

You expected better from that dumbass!!!

There are radar systems that track incoming rounds and fire on the
enemy guns even before the enemy rounds hit the ground. It wouldn't at
all surprise me if an M1 tank can put a cannon round on a sniper's
muzzle flash in a second or two, before the sniper's round even
bounces off the tank.

But anyone who knows so much about Ohm's Law is probably an expert on
military matters, too.

I could do with a scaled down version of that tracking radar.

In this hot weather with all the windows open, loads of flies get in, the
fly-spray seems inefective unless you score a direct hit (in some cases
you
have to literally drown the little fuckers!) - the bastards come in low &
fast so its difficult to draw a bead on them.

I had this idea for a mosquito tracking LIDAR with a coaxial YAG laser
to blow them out of the air. Bzzzz bzzzz POW! But it's been done now.

I moved to San Francisco, where we rarely see a mosquito, so lost
interest in the project.
Click to expand...

The fly-spray is so useless, I'd be better off with hair-spray - turn them
into gliders.
 
On Mon, 5 Aug 2013 14:32:53 +0100, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"George Herold" <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote in message
news:464f08d6-d7be-4ac1-b596-68b6255b30e4@googlegroups.com...

Newark lists 957 incandescent bulbs, isn't element 14 in europe?

Never heard of it, so maybe not in the UK or only in cities.
Click to expand...
---
Or maybe it sneaked in when you weren't watching?

--
JF
 
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