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It takes about 100mA through the heart to kill you.As to the risk here, I routinely touch both clips of the 1-amp 12 volt
battery charger I have. I havent' done that with the 8 amp charger,
probably because the phrase "8 amp" scares me, but it shoudln't
and tomorrow I will, I'll even find some alcohol to spark in. If I
don't
post back, it means my house burned down and took my computer
and me with it.
It only takes a few milliamps to kill you. Assuming the current
has a path to a vital organ, like the heart.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. The voltage has nothing whatever to doCertainly you can be killed with a few milliamps,
but only if the voltage is 60V or higher.
60V is not lethal (unless, perhaps, the electrodes were under the skin). It60 volts isn't considered 'safe' anywhere I know of.
About half that is the accepted norm.
That's one of the problems with electric chairs -- they don't work the wayHow many 'milliamps' on average does 'your' electric chair
seek to achieve to be fairly certain of killing someone
without blowing them apart?
I was talking about safety, not safety standards or regulations.I can't believe the participants in /this/ group aren't
more familiar with electrical safety.
Electrical safety standards vary between countries.
That bit is correct.Certainly you can be killed with a few milliamps,
but only if the voltage is 60V or higher.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. The voltage has nothing whatever to
do with electrocution (other than affecting how much current flows).
ONLY THE CURRENT MATTERS.
The actual amount will vary from person to person. That may well be anYou cannot be killed "with a few milliamps". The thresholds are known,
and the lethal level is at about 100mA through the heart.
Electrical safety standards vary between countries. And over the years.I can't believe the participants in /this/ group aren't more familiar
with electrical safety.
That's a way-low value. Try grabbing the probes of a DVM.Human skin has a resistance between 1K and 6K, and
that resistance varies with the voltage aplied to skin.
Human skin has a resistance between 1K and 6K, and that resistanteCertainly you can be killed with a few milliamps,
but only if the voltage is 60V or higher.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. The voltage has nothing whatever to do
with electrocution (other than affecting how much current flows). ONLY THE
CURRENT MATTERS.
You cannot be killed "with a few milliamps". The thresholds are known, and
the lethal level is at about 100mA through the heart.
I can't believe the participants in /this/ group aren't more familiar with
electrical safety.
Summarizing: we agree that current is what kills, but in order to make
your body draw that amount of current, you need a high enough voltage.
Voltages under 60V are unlikely to kill anyone, unless the person is
applying electricity directly through an open wound. Just do the math.
Certainly a DVM will show a body impedance of 20K or more, but pleaseHuman skin has a resistance between 1K and 6K, and
that resistance varies with the voltage aplied to skin.
That's a way-low value. Try grabbing the probes of a DVM.
The actual resistance varies with the skin's wetness, the area covered, and
whether the skin has been penetrated.
;-)How many 'milliamps' on average does 'your' electric chair
seek to achieve to be fairly certain of killing someone
without blowing them apart?
That's one of the problems with electric chairs -- they don't work the
way they're supposed to. They do a better job of slowly frying the
criminal, rather than quickly stopping his heart.
I'll have to write a new version of Gilbert... "The criminal fried..."
Indeed. To you or me it seems so simple.I can't believe the participants in /this/ group aren't
more familiar with electrical safety.
Electrical safety standards vary between countries.
I was talking about safety, not safety standards or regulations.
Then there's me. Thick skinned. As you have to be to post to a US groupHuman skin has a resistance between 1K and 6K, and
that resistance varies with the voltage aplied to skin.
That's a way-low value. Try grabbing the probes of a DVM.
The actual resistance varies with the skin's wetness, the area covered,
and whether the skin has been penetrated.
Certainly. My mistake.lsmartino wrote:
Summarizing: we agree that current is what kills, but in order to make
your body draw that amount of current, you need a high enough voltage.
Voltages under 60V are unlikely to kill anyone, unless the person is
applying electricity directly through an open wound. Just do the math.
A humman body doesn't 'draw current'. It 'passes current' if you are
in a circuit.
--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!
It's not a mistake at all. To 'draw current' is a common figure ofOn 15 dic, 13:18, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
lsmartino wrote:
Summarizing: we agree that current is what kills, but in order to make
your body draw that amount of current, you need a high enough voltage.
Voltages under 60V are unlikely to kill anyone, unless the person is
applying electricity directly through an open wound. Just do the math.
A humman body doesn't 'draw current'. It 'passes current' if you are
in a circuit.
--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!
Certainly. My mistake.
BTW, I know that an 8 amp charger won't put any more current throughIn article <aj0hg65q8716asl7teltu2vlg1jrahfcgq@4ax.com>,
mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
As to the risk here, I routinely touch both clips of the 1-amp 12 votl
battery charger I have. I havent' done that with the 8 amp charger,
probably because the phrase "8 amp" scares me, but it shoudln't and
The body gives thousands of ohms resistance, even when one's fingerstomorrow I will, I'll even find some alcohol to spark in. If I don't
post back, it means my house burned down and took my computer and me
with it.
It only takes a few milliamps to kill you. Assuming the current has a path
to a vital organ, like the heart.
20 volts.Of course many modern car battery chargers have a relay on their output
with the coil operated by the battery - via a diode - to prevent damage to
the charger if it's connected with the wrong polarity. Which also means
it's less likely you'll touch the connectors when they're live.
A powered up but disconnected battery charger of a basic design might well
present a greater 'hazard' than when connected to the battery as the open
circuit voltage could be much higher than the nominal 12 volts.
Except that the current is directly proportional to the voltage, so ICertainly you can be killed with a few milliamps,
but only if the voltage is 60V or higher.
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. The voltage has nothing whatever to do
with electrocution (other than affecting how much current flows). ONLY THE
CURRENT MATTERS.
You cannot be killed "with a few milliamps". The thresholds are known, and
the lethal level is at about 100mA through the heart.
I can't believe the participants in /this/ group aren't more familiar with
electrical safety.
Well...On 12 dic, 23:51, mike <spam...@go.com> wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:
"mike"
Ok, but how did it make it past the "fire hazard" category.
** The design of the transformer prevents any fire or electrocution hazard.
It's surely a source of ignition when you knock it over onto
a pair of scissors on the desk.
** Shorting the secondary winding is one of the tests carried out when
certifying a transformer as "class 2" or double insulated. The unit must not
overheat or burn to the extent that primary and secondary circuits can
become fused.
Most often this is achieved by adding a thermal fuse to the primary circuit
that will open if the winding temp reaches a point that could damage the
insulation used to make the tranny - about 120C in most examples.
Some older designs used fireproof insulation between the primary and
secondary and the winding were contained on separate halves of a plastic
bobbin. Such a tranny could smoke and burn but still not present an
electrocution hazard.
.... Phil
Ok, but what about the spark that happens when you knock it over
while refilling your butane torch? Or when you just cleaned a part
with alcohol. Dumb design!!!
Safety design is a LOT more than just the obvious.
There'd be a lot fewer houses burned to the ground if only engineers
thought more about how their products are used and the hazards
caused by confluence of circumstance.
Did I mention...DUMB DESIGN!!
But you bought a chinese no name "design" lamp, with chinese
construction "quality" and chinese design "aspect" and you pretend
that this lamp should be properly designed??? I bet you that the
creator of that "jewel" isn´t even an engineer.
If you don´t fell comfortable with the lamp, and I wouldn´t BTW, just
trash it.
That's a "creative" interpretation.lsmartino wrote:
Summarizing: we agree that current is what kills, but in order to make
your body draw that amount of current, you need a high enough voltage.
Voltages under 60V are unlikely to kill anyone, unless the person is
applying electricity directly through an open wound. Just do the math.
A humman body doesn't 'draw current'. It 'passes current' if you are
in a circuit.
I doubt you've considered ALL possibilities.As to the risk here, I routinely touch both clips of the 1-amp 12 volt
battery charger I have. I havent' done that with the 8 amp charger,
probably because the phrase "8 amp" scares me, but it shoudln't
and tomorrow I will, I'll even find some alcohol to spark in. If I
don't
post back, it means my house burned down and took my computer
and me with it.
It only takes a few milliamps to kill you. Assuming the current
has a path to a vital organ, like the heart.
It takes about 100mA through the heart to kill you.
Guys, a battery charger is not a constant-current device! It provides only
the current determined by its charging voltage (which I assume starts at
around 14V) and your skin resistance, which even when your hands are wet, is
no lower than a few thousand ohms.
YOU CANNOT BE ELCTROCUTED BY THE OUTPUT OF A CAR-BATTERY CHARGER.
That statement suggests a misguided interpretation of "certainty".
You're right in principle, but it's difficult to think of /any/ situation inYOU CANNOT BE ELCTROCUTED BY THE
OUTPUT OF A CAR-BATTERY CHARGER.
That statement suggests a misguided interpretation of
"certainty". I doubt you've considered ALL possibilities.
"unlikely" might be a better word than "cannot" for use
in that sentence.
You're right in principle, but it's difficult to think of /any/ situation inYOU CANNOT BE ELCTROCUTED BY THE
OUTPUT OF A CAR-BATTERY CHARGER.
That statement suggests a misguided interpretation of
"certainty". I doubt you've considered ALL possibilities.
"unlikely" might be a better word than "cannot" for use
in that sentence.