lead free solder

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <hJMVy.1172338$5R5.323195@fx33.am4>,
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says...

ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com...

Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that looks
even more dodgy than the original lead free.

When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before most
people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian
manufacturers a lot longer to get it right).

My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with bizzare
random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over the
soldering fixed them as if by magic.

With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole solder
fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black layer of
oxide on the copper.

On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but going
over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults.

During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs,
and not many of those had anything to do with solder.

I had a RCA (think that was the brand) that had a classic case of bad
solder around the tuner. This was in the days before the internet,but
there was the FIDO net that I found the solution of the problem. Went
over the solder around the tuner and it was good for about 2 years and
then had to do it again. Not sure what kind of solder was used way back
then as it was over 20 years ago. Seems that RCA had many solder issues
around tht period of time. Should have been a total recall for them.
Last thing I bought with the RCA name on it.

 

[Ian Field]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.319168591467246198969c@news.east.earthlink.net...

In article <hJMVy.1172338$5R5.323195@fx33.am4>,
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says...

ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com...

Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that looks
even more dodgy than the original lead free.

When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before
most
people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian
manufacturers a lot longer to get it right).

My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with
bizzare
random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over
the
soldering fixed them as if by magic.

With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole
solder
fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black layer
of
oxide on the copper.

On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but going
over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults.

During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced
repairs,
and not many of those had anything to do with solder.

I had a RCA (think that was the brand) that had a classic case of bad
solder around the tuner. This was in the days before the internet,but
there was the FIDO net that I found the solution of the problem. Went
over the solder around the tuner and it was good for about 2 years and
then had to do it again. Not sure what kind of solder was used way back
then as it was over 20 years ago. Seems that RCA had many solder issues
around tht period of time. Should have been a total recall for them.
Last thing I bought with the RCA name on it.

AFAICR: RoHS came in about 96. It probably isn't law in America and Asia,
but they have to comply if they want to export to Europe.

Certification is expensive - and much more expensive if they also run a non
RoHS production line, as they have to prove that cross contamination cant
happen.

Last time I checked - RCA had been taken over by the French Thomson firm.

Last Hitachi I looked inside; the innards were made by the Turkish Vestel
company - while researching servicing info; I learned that quite a few big
name manufacturers stick their badge on the very same chassis I found.

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <z0PVy.1194992$5R5.1036694@fx33.am4>,
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says...

Last time I checked - RCA had been taken over by the French Thomson firm.

Last Hitachi I looked inside; the innards were made by the Turkish Vestel
company - while researching servicing info; I learned that quite a few big
name manufacturers stick their badge on the very same chassis I found.

That is one big problem for me. I never know who or where anything is
really made. I was repairing some CB radios for friends around 1970 and
found even then the same insides were put into different cabinets for
different brands. Sometimes even the same color wires were used.

The Brand names are often sold and moved to a different country so the
quality may or may not be worse.

Sometimes it gets as bad as the Jeep. From what I heard you almost need
to know the day it was made to find out what kind of engine or
transmission was used in it.

 

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:09:22 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 2:00:53 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:


As it is just for my own use at home I am not worried about the legal
Rohs part.
OK, just for your own use, you can do repairs with PbSn solder on
assemblies
made originally with Pb free. I do this all the time, never had a
problem.

Me too, the amalgamate talk makes me wonder though.

Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that looks
even more dodgy than the original lead free.

When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before most
people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian
manufacturers a lot longer to get it right).

My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with bizzare
random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over the
soldering fixed them as if by magic.

With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole solder
fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black layer of
oxide on the copper.

On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but going
over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults.

During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs,
and not many of those had anything to do with solder.

Thanks Ian, I'm a bit confused by your response though.
It's starts by saying 60/40 on lead free is dodgy,
and ends by saying you had few problems when using it.

George H.

 

[N_Cook]

On 03/05/2016 13:25, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:09:22 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 2:00:53 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:


As it is just for my own use at home I am not worried about the legal
Rohs part.
OK, just for your own use, you can do repairs with PbSn solder on
assemblies
made originally with Pb free. I do this all the time, never had a
problem.

Me too, the amalgamate talk makes me wonder though.

Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that looks
even more dodgy than the original lead free.

When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before most
people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian
manufacturers a lot longer to get it right).

My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with bizzare
random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over the
soldering fixed them as if by magic.

With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole solder
fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black layer of
oxide on the copper.

On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but going
over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults.

During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs,
and not many of those had anything to do with solder.

Thanks Ian, I'm a bit confused by your response though.
It's starts by saying 60/40 on lead free is dodgy,
and ends by saying you had few problems when using it.

George H.

60/40 on lead free is dodgy, PbF is dodgey, PbF on PbF is dodgey, SAC on
PbF is dodgey, you do your own thing with fingers crossed and monitor
for bouncers over the next few years.

 

[Ian Field]

"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.31919968828164ed98969d@news.east.earthlink.net...

In article <z0PVy.1194992$5R5.1036694@fx33.am4>,
gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says...



Last time I checked - RCA had been taken over by the French Thomson firm.

Last Hitachi I looked inside; the innards were made by the Turkish Vestel
company - while researching servicing info; I learned that quite a few
big
name manufacturers stick their badge on the very same chassis I found.

That is one big problem for me. I never know who or where anything is
really made. I was repairing some CB radios for friends around 1970 and
found even then the same insides were put into different cabinets for
different brands. Sometimes even the same color wires were used.

The Brand names are often sold and moved to a different country so the
quality may or may not be worse.

AFAIK: there's wheelers & dealers brokering brand names.

Bush wasn't the Rolls Royce of consumer electronics, but it was a well
respected brand. Its now one of quite a few badges that get stuck on very
cheap & very nasty Vestel equipment like the one I found.

 

[Ian Field]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ngacfi$6b6$1@dont-email.me...

On 03/05/2016 13:25, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:09:22 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:
ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com...
On Saturday, April 30, 2016 at 2:00:53 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote:


As it is just for my own use at home I am not worried about the legal
Rohs part.
OK, just for your own use, you can do repairs with PbSn solder on
assemblies
made originally with Pb free. I do this all the time, never had a
problem.

Me too, the amalgamate talk makes me wonder though.

Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that
looks
even more dodgy than the original lead free.

When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before
most
people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian
manufacturers a lot longer to get it right).

My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with
bizzare
random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over
the
soldering fixed them as if by magic.

With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole
solder
fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black
layer of
oxide on the copper.

On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but
going
over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults.

During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced
repairs,
and not many of those had anything to do with solder.

Thanks Ian, I'm a bit confused by your response though.
It's starts by saying 60/40 on lead free is dodgy,
and ends by saying you had few problems when using it.

George H.


60/40 on lead free is dodgy, PbF is dodgey, PbF on PbF is dodgey, SAC on
PbF is dodgey, you do your own thing with fingers crossed and monitor for
bouncers over the next few years.

They do seem to be getting better at lead free - at one point, the bulk of
TVs going to landfill increased five-fold because of dodgy soldering. They
are gradually getting that figure down a bit.

Apart from the fact that manufacturing was taking lead out of the
environment and binding into a relatively stable alloy - what difference is
RoHS going to make with rain and hail lashed lead roofs running into the
water table. There's been about 100 yrs of the landed gentry peppering
agricultural land with lead shot. They're most unlikely to have got all the
lead pipes that were used upto the 50s - in the UK; they're still
discovering Roman lead water ducting.

The other side of the coin was lead in petrol - the petrochemical industry
lead procurement was in tons, and the number had a lot of noughts on the
end. That lead was being pumped in the air as particulates for us all to
breathe.