Lead free solder - exposed in a UK national newspaper

[Doug Miller]

In article <65tud2F2h9kk4U1@mid.individual.net>, "Phil Allison"
<philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann Rabid Fucking NUTTER "

Pot ... kettle ... black ... <PLONK>

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
newsfyKj.1189$h75.157@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

In article <65tud2F2h9kk4U1@mid.individual.net>, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann Rabid Fucking NUTTER "

Pot ... kettle ... black ... <PLONK

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Whose tea is that then ??

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
newsfyKj.1189$h75.157@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...

In article <65tud2F2h9kk4U1@mid.individual.net>, "Phil Allison"
philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Jeff Liebermann Rabid Fucking NUTTER "

Pot ... kettle ... black ... <PLONK

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Whose tea is that then ??

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Mike" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:9qqkv39u4i7ed496uaith0maaafht8o1s5@4ax.com...

On 04 Apr 2008 03:42:35 GMT, Jay Ts <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com
wrote:

Another source of lead is CRTs, many of which are still in use.
They contain about 5 pounds of lead each for radiation protection,
quite a bit more than is contained in the solder in the PC boards.

And the replacements, flat screen monitors, have mercury in
the fluorescent backlights.

If you've ever seen the size of a fluorescent backlight for an LCD
you'd realise that scrapping even a few hundred of them produces three
fifths of seven sixteenths of bugger all mercury.


--

Which is, in turn, about the same level of threat to the environment, as
lead in solder ... d;~}

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Mike" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:9qqkv39u4i7ed496uaith0maaafht8o1s5@4ax.com...

On 04 Apr 2008 03:42:35 GMT, Jay Ts <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com
wrote:

Another source of lead is CRTs, many of which are still in use.
They contain about 5 pounds of lead each for radiation protection,
quite a bit more than is contained in the solder in the PC boards.

And the replacements, flat screen monitors, have mercury in
the fluorescent backlights.

If you've ever seen the size of a fluorescent backlight for an LCD
you'd realise that scrapping even a few hundred of them produces three
fifths of seven sixteenths of bugger all mercury.


--

Which is, in turn, about the same level of threat to the environment, as
lead in solder ... d;~}

Arfa

 

[Smitty Two]

In article <1207696617.47982@ftpsrv1>, Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org>
wrote:

these are great, they look fantastic, unity power factor, dimmable, and
last 50,000 hours.

Yeah, and they're only $145 each:

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s_lr6/

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jay Ts" <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com> wrote in message
news:47fc9bc8$0$651$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
The State of Maine did some research on the handling of broken CFL lamps
to avoid mercury poisoning. Basically, let the mercury vapor dissipate
before cleaning up the mess. See:
http://maine.gov/dep/rwm/homeowner/cflreport.htm

Thanks for that, Jeff.

I really wish I'd read that before breaking the bulb! ;-)

At the time, I just did what seemed like the best thing
to do, but I only got it about half right.

Nice trick, to use duct tape instead of a vaccuum cleaner.
Now I need to put a new vacuum cleaner on my shopping list.
Thing is, I have 2 of them, and I don't remember which one
I used to clean it up! I assumed that because I didn't see
any mercury, I was just vacuuming up a few tiny bits of
glass. Bummer.

I did some Googling for how much mercury is found in CFL lamps. The
numbers vary from 2.5mg to 10.0mg depending on size. Several
manufacturers advertise low or reduced mercury content in their CFL
bulbs. Methinks 20mg is far too high, unless it's a very large bulb.

It was huge. I'm not sure now, but it might have been a 150 watt equiv.

Fortunately, I've already been through the heavy metal detox thing,
and know how to flush the stuff out of my body pretty quickly. (As
in a couple of years.) Metallic mercury isn't so bad, as compared
to methyl mercury. I was amazed at how quickly I started feeling
better after I had my mercury fillings removed.

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

Whenever I see references to amalgam fillings in this context, I always
wonder just how 'real' the improvement in perceived well-being is. I don't
doubt that you feel better now you have had them removed, but I really
wonder how much of that is because you *expected* to feel better, because
that's why you were having them removed ? Kind of like the double-blind
placebo tests, when they are evaluating the efficacy of new pharmaceutical
drugs. Have you located any studies as to whether people who have amalgam
fillings actually have a higher level of mercury in their bodies than would
be expected for their given location / lifestyle, and did these levels
actually reduce, or at least stop going up, once the amalgam had been
removed ? I'm interested to know, not least because I have an amalgam
filling in just about every 4 - 8 tooth, both sides, top and bottom, and
have had for 40 years or more since I was a kid, and they were the 'norm'.
Although my memory, particularly short-term, is not as good as it was,
otherwise, I would have rated my health as 'OK', and not any worse than I
would expect for a mid 50's man with my location and lifestyle.

Arfa

 

[TheM]

"nospam" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message news:dekpv3hcklt7usjpiom7ogocp9kckvjs5i@4ax.com...

Pete Wilcox <pw2@st-andrews.ac.uk> wrote:

Folks our age are going to die of *something* in
two or three decades, regardless. I think that mercury, or lead, or
whatever-other-heavy-metal poisoning is the least of our worries.

We are disposable containers for our genes.

I think there is a quite reasonable argument that with our bodies having
(by design) a limited life if they are not knackerd and contaminated by the
time we die we have to some degree wasted them.

I wonder, should we ever be able to extend our lives to hundreds of years,
what that might mean for our lifestyle.
Living extremely healthy and avoiding pollution of all kinds, perhaps?

Mark

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Whenever I see references to amalgam fillings in this context,
I always wonder just how 'real' the improvement in perceived
well-being is. I don't doubt that you feel better now you have
had them removed, but I really wonder how much of that is
because you *expected* to feel better, because that's why
you were having them removed?

It's been shown that amalgam fillings release mercury vapor only when you
grind down hard on them. They're otherwide inert.

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jay Ts" <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com> wrote in message
news:47fd80d5$0$12043$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Jay Ts" <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com> wrote in message
I was amazed at how quickly I started feeling better after I
had my mercury fillings removed.

Whenever I see references to amalgam fillings in this context, I always
wonder just how 'real' the improvement in perceived well-being is.

I feel like I know exactly what you're thinking, because that is
what I used to think too! But I kept meeting people who told me,
"I'm so glad I had it done" that at one point, it was the next
thing to try, to see if I could recover from my chronic health problems.

I don't doubt that you feel better now you have had them removed, but I
really wonder how much of that is because you *expected* to feel better,

I didn't expect to notice *any* improvement right away, and I'd
never heard of that happening. But it did. After the painkillers
wore off and I got a night's sleep, the very next day I got a definite,
very-hard-to-ignore boost in mental acuity, and to use an overused
saying, "felt like a fog had been lifted off me". Nothing else had
changed in my life that could have accounted for that.

I had put off having it done for about 10 years due to the cost,
ordeal of it, and because I never had anything objective to latch
onto to feel confident that it would result in any kind of noticeable
improvement. Other people I've talked to don't get any, but they're
usually still "glad they had it done."

"YMMV" is the simplest answer I can give to you, and there's
not much of any way anyone can tell you in advance what your
experience would be.

I'm interested to know, not
least because I have an amalgam filling in just about every 4 - 8 tooth,
both sides, top and bottom, and have had for 40 years or more since I
was a kid, and they were the 'norm'. Although my memory, particularly
short-term, is not as good as it was, otherwise, I would have rated my
health as 'OK', and not any worse than I would expect for a mid 50's man
with my location and lifestyle.

As compared to say, other people who also have amalgam fillings? ;-)
Unfortunately, that's the rub of it. Heavy metal toxicity is usually
very sneaky. It sinks in gradually, and you can't tell it's there, and
I think for almost all cases, it never gets bad enough to cause acute
symptoms that doctors can diagnose.

But then I heard of a woman (friend of a friend) who was suffering
from MS for many years, and after a lot of other things, she
tried getting her mercury fillings removed. And then she simply
recovered! So who knows? There's no proof that the mercury removal
did it, but she had no other explanation for it. (Miracle?)

BTW, I regret that I cannot reveal personal details about other
people, to protect both them and dentists who remove mercury fillings.
Dentists are still persecuted by the ADA and other organizations in
some areas.

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

Hmmm. Your passion for this subject is clear. I do, however, remain
unconvinced that this is anything other than placebo effect, which has been
shown in proper clinical trials, to be an extremely powerful entity. As far
as I am aware - and I haven't read anything about this for some time - the
human body is not good at removing heavy metal toxins from itself, without
external help, so I would be surprised if your body had managed to just
'clean itself' - especially overnight - of any mercury that might have been
in there as a result of your fillings.

As far as fillings dissolving as a mechanism for getting the mercury into
your body goes, I have some that have been in my mouth untouched for
probably 30 years. All of the saliva / beer / coca cola / lemon juice / tea
/ coffee / other drinks, don't seem to have touched them one iota. If they
are smaller than they were, then it's by a fraction of a mm. I attend a
dentist regularly, and he has not seen fit to replace any of these long-term
fillings through reason of them being worn below what is acceptable for
their function. He has, of course, had to replace the odd one from time to
time over the 35 years that I have known him, for clinical reasons.

Considering the (relatively) small proportion of the filling that is mercury
in the first place, any such mercury ingression as a result of this
dissolution, must be infinitessimally small, and probably absolutely
negligible in comparison to other sources of mercury ingression, such as
airborne from power stations or in the many pounds of tuna fish that I have
eaten over the years. If you could show me a study that didn't call on
hearsay and personal anecdotal evidence, and that could show that a body's
mercury content decreased, or at least arrested in its upward climb after
such fillings had been removed, then I might be more inclined to accept that
there's something in it. Can you show any such study conducted under proper
scientific protocols ?

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"Jay Ts" <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com> wrote in message
news:47fd80d5$0$12043$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.com...

Arfa Daily wrote:
"Jay Ts" <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com> wrote in message
I was amazed at how quickly I started feeling better after I
had my mercury fillings removed.

Whenever I see references to amalgam fillings in this context, I always
wonder just how 'real' the improvement in perceived well-being is.

I feel like I know exactly what you're thinking, because that is
what I used to think too! But I kept meeting people who told me,
"I'm so glad I had it done" that at one point, it was the next
thing to try, to see if I could recover from my chronic health problems.

I don't doubt that you feel better now you have had them removed, but I
really wonder how much of that is because you *expected* to feel better,

I didn't expect to notice *any* improvement right away, and I'd
never heard of that happening. But it did. After the painkillers
wore off and I got a night's sleep, the very next day I got a definite,
very-hard-to-ignore boost in mental acuity, and to use an overused
saying, "felt like a fog had been lifted off me". Nothing else had
changed in my life that could have accounted for that.

I had put off having it done for about 10 years due to the cost,
ordeal of it, and because I never had anything objective to latch
onto to feel confident that it would result in any kind of noticeable
improvement. Other people I've talked to don't get any, but they're
usually still "glad they had it done."

"YMMV" is the simplest answer I can give to you, and there's
not much of any way anyone can tell you in advance what your
experience would be.

I'm interested to know, not
least because I have an amalgam filling in just about every 4 - 8 tooth,
both sides, top and bottom, and have had for 40 years or more since I
was a kid, and they were the 'norm'. Although my memory, particularly
short-term, is not as good as it was, otherwise, I would have rated my
health as 'OK', and not any worse than I would expect for a mid 50's man
with my location and lifestyle.

As compared to say, other people who also have amalgam fillings? ;-)
Unfortunately, that's the rub of it. Heavy metal toxicity is usually
very sneaky. It sinks in gradually, and you can't tell it's there, and
I think for almost all cases, it never gets bad enough to cause acute
symptoms that doctors can diagnose.

But then I heard of a woman (friend of a friend) who was suffering
from MS for many years, and after a lot of other things, she
tried getting her mercury fillings removed. And then she simply
recovered! So who knows? There's no proof that the mercury removal
did it, but she had no other explanation for it. (Miracle?)

BTW, I regret that I cannot reveal personal details about other
people, to protect both them and dentists who remove mercury fillings.
Dentists are still persecuted by the ADA and other organizations in
some areas.

Jay Ts
--
To contact me, use this web page:
http://www.jayts.com/contact.php

Hmmm. Your passion for this subject is clear. I do, however, remain
unconvinced that this is anything other than placebo effect, which has been
shown in proper clinical trials, to be an extremely powerful entity. As far
as I am aware - and I haven't read anything about this for some time - the
human body is not good at removing heavy metal toxins from itself, without
external help, so I would be surprised if your body had managed to just
'clean itself' - especially overnight - of any mercury that might have been
in there as a result of your fillings.

As far as fillings dissolving as a mechanism for getting the mercury into
your body goes, I have some that have been in my mouth untouched for
probably 30 years. All of the saliva / beer / coca cola / lemon juice / tea
/ coffee / other drinks, don't seem to have touched them one iota. If they
are smaller than they were, then it's by a fraction of a mm. I attend a
dentist regularly, and he has not seen fit to replace any of these long-term
fillings through reason of them being worn below what is acceptable for
their function. He has, of course, had to replace the odd one from time to
time over the 35 years that I have known him, for clinical reasons.

Considering the (relatively) small proportion of the filling that is mercury
in the first place, any such mercury ingression as a result of this
dissolution, must be infinitessimally small, and probably absolutely
negligible in comparison to other sources of mercury ingression, such as
airborne from power stations or in the many pounds of tuna fish that I have
eaten over the years. If you could show me a study that didn't call on
hearsay and personal anecdotal evidence, and that could show that a body's
mercury content decreased, or at least arrested in its upward climb after
such fillings had been removed, then I might be more inclined to accept that
there's something in it. Can you show any such study conducted under proper
scientific protocols ?

Arfa

 

[N_Cook]

one reply got into print

* The Guardian,
* Thursday April 10 2008

Getting the lead out

Thank you for publishing the article on tin whiskers (Within a whisker of
failure, April 3). Too much attention has been given to well-meaning people
who are pushing the environmental agenda but with very little science behind
what they are trying to achieve. Some of the green community captured the
public attention and pushed through the no lead on electronics, when there
was not sufficient test data available (actually there was a lot of data on
US military aircraft). Now we are finding the problems of having a political
agenda and not one based on science and facts.
Steven Adamson, IMAPS president and Asymtek market manager


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[N_Cook]

one reply got into print

* The Guardian,
* Thursday April 10 2008

Getting the lead out

Thank you for publishing the article on tin whiskers (Within a whisker of
failure, April 3). Too much attention has been given to well-meaning people
who are pushing the environmental agenda but with very little science behind
what they are trying to achieve. Some of the green community captured the
public attention and pushed through the no lead on electronics, when there
was not sufficient test data available (actually there was a lot of data on
US military aircraft). Now we are finding the problems of having a political
agenda and not one based on science and facts.
Steven Adamson, IMAPS president and Asymtek market manager


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[Arfa Daily]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ftl4r8$nj0$1@registered.motzarella.org...

one reply got into print

* The Guardian,
* Thursday April 10 2008

Getting the lead out

Thank you for publishing the article on tin whiskers (Within a whisker of
failure, April 3). Too much attention has been given to well-meaning
people
who are pushing the environmental agenda but with very little science
behind
what they are trying to achieve. Some of the green community captured the
public attention and pushed through the no lead on electronics, when there
was not sufficient test data available (actually there was a lot of data
on
US military aircraft). Now we are finding the problems of having a
political
agenda and not one based on science and facts.
Steven Adamson, IMAPS president and Asymtek market manager


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Very nicely put by Mr Adamson and, whilst The Guardian is not one of my
favourite rags, all credit to them for at least publishing a reply that
swims against the tide, and does not tow the government line ... It's good
to see some 'alternative' views finally making themselves heard in the
public domain !

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ftl4r8$nj0$1@registered.motzarella.org...

one reply got into print

* The Guardian,
* Thursday April 10 2008

Getting the lead out

Thank you for publishing the article on tin whiskers (Within a whisker of
failure, April 3). Too much attention has been given to well-meaning
people
who are pushing the environmental agenda but with very little science
behind
what they are trying to achieve. Some of the green community captured the
public attention and pushed through the no lead on electronics, when there
was not sufficient test data available (actually there was a lot of data
on
US military aircraft). Now we are finding the problems of having a
political
agenda and not one based on science and facts.
Steven Adamson, IMAPS president and Asymtek market manager


--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

Very nicely put by Mr Adamson and, whilst The Guardian is not one of my
favourite rags, all credit to them for at least publishing a reply that
swims against the tide, and does not tow the government line ... It's good
to see some 'alternative' views finally making themselves heard in the
public domain !

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:jpmuv3d1an98pgo1d1gvsm7euppe7s9bd5@4ax.com...

On 10 Apr 2008 22:48:41 GMT, Jay Ts <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com
wrote:

Archimedes' Lever wrote:
On 10 Apr 2008 08:18:32 GMT, Jay Ts <UseWebsiteToReply@example.com
wrote:

I put it right there in front of you: They measure ELECTRIC POTENTIAL
otherwise known as "VOLTAGE", between a filling and a reference point.

TOATAL BULLSHIT, you fucking idiot!

I've already done as much as I can to help this guy,
who obviously can not live up to the name he is using.
Instead of discussing the matter respectfully, and
abiding by Usenet "netiquette", he is just attacking
me personally.

If anything, I admit that discussing this topic in
a group related to electronics is highly inappropriate,
and I feel *very* embarrassed that I unwittingly led the
discussion in this direction. I hope to wind this
down soon.

I've posted enough links to Wikipedia that anyone who has
interest can just go read them, and learn much more than I
have to offer on my own. And don't knock my little story
without checking out the reader's comments to Dr. Huggins'
book on Amazon.com if you haven't already. If those things
don't do it for you, I don't think anything will ... and
that's perfectly ok with me! Enjoy your own reality however
you prefer it.

---
Read this:

http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mercury.html

JF

Yes, that's more like it. At least it cites relevant research, which
*appears* to have been carried out by scientific people using proper
methodology.

Arfa

 

[Arfa Daily]

"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:06b004htd49j569u0ttk8sin5p39dc2llv@4ax.com...

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:45:28 +1200, Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org
wrote:

Jay Ts wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:

Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org> wrote:


these are great, they look fantastic, unity power factor, dimmable, and
last 50,000 hours.

Yeah, and they're only $145 each:

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s_lr6/


And only 650 lumens, which is less than a 60 watt incandescent (890
lumens). I'm using 4 27 watt (100 watt equivalent) 6500K CFLs to
light my work room, so to replace them with those LED bulbs, it
would cost ... oh, forget it, I don't even want to do the math!
No way.

and how many lumens come out of your fixture with the 890 lumen lamp in
it?

CFLs are terrible for that. they are measured in the light sphere sans
fixture, which can make a tremendous difference. easily 20-30%.


Oh, and the LR6 bulbs are spotlights, which is a no-go just by itself.
And they aren't daylight balanced (5500-6500K), another definite no-go.


they are not bulbs. They are light fittings with integral lamps. that
alters the C-B calcs substantially.

I think it's still going to be a while until 100-watt equivalent,
daylight balanced LED bulbs are available with an "ouchless"
startup cost, and I'm not holding my breath waiting. Just hoping
that it will happen, and won't be awfully long.

Jay Ts

its a total cost of ownership thing. efficiency wise they pay for
themselves (I have seen the ROI calcs but cant recall them) in a few
years.

the main market is for people who dont change their own lightbulbs (eg
companies) where it costs a lot to get a single lamp changed, so they
often get a sparky to change all lamps whether or not they need it, eg
annually or bi-annually. And if its in say a tall atrium and you need
scissor lifts, these things pay themselves off in less than the
lifgetime of a single incandescent, CFL or flouro.

Cheers
Terry

For street lighting, warehouse lighting, and industrial lighting there
is a competing technology: Induction lighting. Typical lamp/bulb life
50,000 to 75,000 hours. Twice the life and better luminous efficacy
at a 50% surcharge compared to HID lighting. It is starting to get a
lot of notice. Oh, and better electrical efficiency, takes about half
the power for the same amount of light.

I don't know how much take-up of this technology there has been in the UK.
It does beg the question of how much trouble it could cause, if a single
streetlamp or warehouse luminaire went 'rogue'. Already, I see fellow hams
bleating all the time about HF bands interference problems from rogue CFLs,
and SMPS's and PLT and so on. Imagine the potential for interference if a
high power streetlight ballast, feeding an induction lamp 50ft up a pole,
started radiating on 13 odd megs. Or a factory one 50ft up in the ceiling
....

Arfa

 

[N_Cook]

more printed followup
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/17/1
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 17 2008
Tin woes solder on

Congratulations on the very interesting article on tin whiskers (Within a
whisker of failure, April 3). You may be interested to hear of another
phenomenon associated with lead-free solders in electronics, known as tin
pest. Research was carried out into the allotropy of tin 80 years ago. Tin
pest was found to occur by a process of nucleation and growth of "grey" tin
(a form found below 13C), and was very slow - often requiring years to
complete. Since the transition from "white" to "grey" tin involved a 27%
increase in volume, its formation was restricted to the surface. Recently,
tin pest has been reported in bulk samples of lead-free solder alloys
following a few years' exposure at -18C, the usual freezer temperature.

To date it has not been observed on actual joints. But lead-free
interconnections have been in service for a relatively short time. Although
we do not know whether it is necessary to shut the stable door, we should
make more effort to understand and control tin pest formation. Only time
will tell whether it represents a real problem in electronics.
Professor Bill Plumbridge
Faculty of Technology
The Open University



--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/

 

[N_Cook]

more printed followup
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/17/1
# The Guardian,
# Thursday April 17 2008
Tin woes solder on

Congratulations on the very interesting article on tin whiskers (Within a
whisker of failure, April 3). You may be interested to hear of another
phenomenon associated with lead-free solders in electronics, known as tin
pest. Research was carried out into the allotropy of tin 80 years ago. Tin
pest was found to occur by a process of nucleation and growth of "grey" tin
(a form found below 13C), and was very slow - often requiring years to
complete. Since the transition from "white" to "grey" tin involved a 27%
increase in volume, its formation was restricted to the surface. Recently,
tin pest has been reported in bulk samples of lead-free solder alloys
following a few years' exposure at -18C, the usual freezer temperature.

To date it has not been observed on actual joints. But lead-free
interconnections have been in service for a relatively short time. Although
we do not know whether it is necessary to shut the stable door, we should
make more effort to understand and control tin pest formation. Only time
will tell whether it represents a real problem in electronics.
Professor Bill Plumbridge
Faculty of Technology
The Open University



--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
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[Arfa Daily]

"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote in message
newsaje04ddaritvg2u96m558rkndr8jq2hh0@4ax.com...

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:22:41 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:


"JosephKK" <quiettechblue@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:06b004htd49j569u0ttk8sin5p39dc2llv@4ax.com...
On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:45:28 +1200, Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org
wrote:

Jay Ts wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:

Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org> wrote:


these are great, they look fantastic, unity power factor, dimmable,
and
last 50,000 hours.

Yeah, and they're only $145 each:

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s_lr6/


And only 650 lumens, which is less than a 60 watt incandescent (890
lumens). I'm using 4 27 watt (100 watt equivalent) 6500K CFLs to
light my work room, so to replace them with those LED bulbs, it
would cost ... oh, forget it, I don't even want to do the math!
No way.

and how many lumens come out of your fixture with the 890 lumen lamp in
it?

CFLs are terrible for that. they are measured in the light sphere sans
fixture, which can make a tremendous difference. easily 20-30%.


Oh, and the LR6 bulbs are spotlights, which is a no-go just by itself.
And they aren't daylight balanced (5500-6500K), another definite
no-go.


they are not bulbs. They are light fittings with integral lamps. that
alters the C-B calcs substantially.

I think it's still going to be a while until 100-watt equivalent,
daylight balanced LED bulbs are available with an "ouchless"
startup cost, and I'm not holding my breath waiting. Just hoping
that it will happen, and won't be awfully long.

Jay Ts

its a total cost of ownership thing. efficiency wise they pay for
themselves (I have seen the ROI calcs but cant recall them) in a few
years.

the main market is for people who dont change their own lightbulbs (eg
companies) where it costs a lot to get a single lamp changed, so they
often get a sparky to change all lamps whether or not they need it, eg
annually or bi-annually. And if its in say a tall atrium and you need
scissor lifts, these things pay themselves off in less than the
lifgetime of a single incandescent, CFL or flouro.

Cheers
Terry

For street lighting, warehouse lighting, and industrial lighting there
is a competing technology: Induction lighting. Typical lamp/bulb life
50,000 to 75,000 hours. Twice the life and better luminous efficacy
at a 50% surcharge compared to HID lighting. It is starting to get a
lot of notice. Oh, and better electrical efficiency, takes about half
the power for the same amount of light.

I don't know how much take-up of this technology there has been in the UK.
It does beg the question of how much trouble it could cause, if a single
streetlamp or warehouse luminaire went 'rogue'. Already, I see fellow hams
bleating all the time about HF bands interference problems from rogue
CFLs,
and SMPS's and PLT and so on. Imagine the potential for interference if a
high power streetlight ballast, feeding an induction lamp 50ft up a pole,
started radiating on 13 odd megs. Or a factory one 50ft up in the ceiling
...

Arfa


In the US they have to meet FCC radiated and conducted emission
standards. Thus the CFLs going rouge probably only statistically meet
those standards, such is part of the nature of regulation.

They have to meet strict emission regulations here too, which I'm sure for
the most part, when in full working order, they do. The problems arise when
the crappy little filter caps in the front end of the switching driver for
the tubes, go open circuit or high ESR, due no doubt to the unventillated
enclosure in the bottom of the lamp, that the electronics sit in, running
very hot. Once that cap has failed, the inverter radiates like a bastard,
swamping the airways with broadband hash. It's bad enough when one goes
rogue like this, 6 foot off the deck in someone's driveway light outside
their house. Think what it would be like if one went bad 50 foot up in the
air ...

Arfa