Lead Based Solder Alternatives

H

H Brown

Guest
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.

Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.

Any directions 0n where to find more about this subject would be
appreciated.

Harry
 
H Brown <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote:
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.
Click to expand...
More seriously, what about NiCd cells?
Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.
Click to expand...
 
H Brown wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:418bbfd9$0$561$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
H Brown <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote:

The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1

July

2006.


More seriously, what about NiCd cells?

The editorial did say nothing about NiCad cells. It specifically mentioned
lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, PBD and PBDE.
Click to expand...
You _are_ aware that the Cd part of NiCd is the chemical
symbol for Cadmium?

Mark L. Fergerson
 
H Brown wrote:

The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.
Click to expand...
A nuisance, isn't it? Lead in batteries is exempt, so this scheme will
have very little obvious benefit.

--
Mike Page BEng(Hons) MIEE www.eclectic-web.co.uk
"Ask a Liberal Democrat, while he still knows everything"
 
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:55:46 +0000, H Brown wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:418bbfd9$0$561$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
H Brown <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote:
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1
July
2006.

More seriously, what about NiCd cells?

The editorial did say nothing about NiCad cells. It specifically mentioned
lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, PBD and PBDE.
Click to expand...
Not true. It said whatever it said about Pb, Hg, Cd, Cr+6, etc.

Cheers!
Rich
 
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:32:50 -0000, "Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com>
wrote:

"H Brown" <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AGNid.4362$Gm6.2200@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1
July
2006.

Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem
before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.

Any directions 0n where to find more about this subject would be
appreciated.

Lead-free solder is available from plenty of sources. I've tried some
samples and it works OK. The MP is higher than for ordinary lead/tin solder
but my Metcal equipment copes OK with it. The joints look nicer - much
shinier.
Click to expand...
I was reading an article about six months back (in some electronics industry
mag whose name escapes me now) about the issues with lead-free solders.
Mechanical stresses and shiny dry joints did crack a mention as two areas of
ongoing concern.

(I filed this in a dusty corner of my mental archive as I don't export to Japan
or EU, and still use leaded solders although I have tried silver-plated PCBs
with mixed reviews.)
 
Mike Page wrote:

H Brown wrote:

The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.

A nuisance, isn't it? Lead in batteries is exempt, so this scheme will
have very little obvious benefit.
Click to expand...
Utterly hilarious. Although lead acid batteries rarely find themselves in
landfill - they get recycled. Consumer electronics ends up in landfill - that's
the reason for this.


Graham
 
budgie wrote:

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:32:50 -0000, "Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com
wrote:

"H Brown" <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:AGNid.4362$Gm6.2200@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1
July
2006.

Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem
before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.

Any directions 0n where to find more about this subject would be
appreciated.

Lead-free solder is available from plenty of sources. I've tried some
samples and it works OK. The MP is higher than for ordinary lead/tin solder
but my Metcal equipment copes OK with it. The joints look nicer - much
shinier.

I was reading an article about six months back (in some electronics industry
mag whose name escapes me now) about the issues with lead-free solders.
Mechanical stresses and shiny dry joints did crack a mention as two areas of
ongoing concern.

(I filed this in a dusty corner of my mental archive as I don't export to Japan
or EU, and still use leaded solders although I have tried silver-plated PCBs
with mixed reviews.)
Click to expand...
Latest thinking is that lead free joints actually perform better.

The increased temperature for lead-free soldering is the one that bothers me. For
decades, those semi makers have been telling us to keep exposure to heat to a
minimum.


Graham
 
Rich Grise wrote:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:55:46 +0000, H Brown wrote:

"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:418bbfd9$0$561$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
H Brown <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote:
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1
July
2006.

More seriously, what about NiCd cells?

The editorial did say nothing about NiCad cells. It specifically mentioned
lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, PBD and PBDE.

Not true. It said whatever it said about Pb, Hg, Cd, Cr+6, etc.
Click to expand...
Ahhh - hexavalent chrome. Reminded me of the film Erin Brockovich.


Graham
 
In article <418C8491.E0CAD329@hotmail.com>,
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
budgie wrote:
[...]
The increased temperature for lead-free soldering is the one that
bothers me. For
decades, those semi makers have been telling us to keep exposure to heat to a
minimum.
Click to expand...
The trend seems to be silver alloys with lower and lower melting points.
I think in a few years a silver, unobtainium, upsidaisium, alloy will be
found with a melting point that match Sn/Pb solder nicely.

Until then, there will be a reliability hit.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
In article <a1aoo0dq0ua49q166vhj484ndc9or6i5lo@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
In the US, lead-based batteries must be recycled, and there is a fee
charged when you buy a new battery to pay for the recycling costs.
Click to expand...

The actual recycling goes on elsewhere. The "boat loads" of dead
batteries are shipped overseas to be recycled.



--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:26:15 +0000, H Brown wrote:

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.11.06.00.49.19.285834@example.net...
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 20:55:46 +0000, H Brown wrote:


"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:418bbfd9$0$561$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
H Brown <harryhbrown@earthlink.net> wrote:
The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation
of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1
July
2006.

More seriously, what about NiCd cells?

The editorial did say nothing about NiCad cells. It specifically mentioned
lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium, PBD and PBDE.

Not true. It said whatever it said about Pb, Hg, Cd, Cr+6, etc.

Cheers!
Rich
============================
Rich,

I don't understand your response. Unless you got a different copy of the
magazine than I did, my statement is true. My response was exactly what I
saw in the magazine and what I am looking at right now. It used exactly the
words I stated.

Thanks for those that provided useful references to review.

My point was only that it had mentioned cadmium, which would imply that
Click to expand...
nickel-cadmium batteries, which have cadmium, would be covered.

Sorry.
Rich
 
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:46:54 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:

In article <418C8491.E0CAD329@hotmail.com>,
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
budgie wrote:
[...]
The increased temperature for lead-free soldering is the one that
bothers me. For
decades, those semi makers have been telling us to keep exposure to heat to a
minimum.

The trend seems to be silver alloys with lower and lower melting points.
I think in a few years a silver, unobtainium, upsidaisium, alloy will be
found with a melting point that match Sn/Pb solder nicely.

Until then, there will be a reliability hit.

I wonder what a little gallium would do to the alloy.
Click to expand...

Cheers!
Rich
 
Here's the full document...

http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/2003/l_037/l_03720030213en00190
023.pdf

One of the problems with this new EU legislation is, as bloody usual, it was
incorrectly drafted, by idiots in the ivory towers or Brussels, in the first
place. (some of their previous attempts have taken them 4 drafts and 10 years
to get them right [they are *still* trying to get EMC regs correct after much
longer]).

The result, in this case, is that people are now arguing over the
interpretation of the document.

They can't say "0%". That would never work. You can find *some* of just about
any chemical in a potato. So they have to have a sensible limit.

Now the argument is "does that mean x% in the whole product?, x% in an IC? x%
on a PCB. Because the regs are unclear on this.

Different companies are interpreting it differently.

As usual with new EU regs it's a monumental fuck up that will take them 10
years to rectify *after* they have made it law. As usual.

In the meantime, companies carry on trading, completely disregarding what they
tell us is now the law.

Eventually they might get it right. But so far they have failed.

Gibbo
 
Robert Baer wrote:
H Brown wrote:

The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.

Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.

Any directions 0n where to find more about this subject would be
appreciated.

Harry

Here are the solders that i know about:
1) Sn63, Pb37 MP is 183C (361F) with a max recommended use to 149C
(300F).
2) Sn95.8, Ag3.5, Cu0.7 MP is 217C (423F)
3) Sn96.5, Ag3.5 MP is 221C (430F)
4) Sn65, Sb5 MP is 232C (450F)
I have only personally worked with #1 and #4 and one needs a rather
hot iron to not get cold solder joints with #4.
That makes it a bitch, as that heat tends to make problems with the
ICs one is soldering...
Click to expand...
What about various alloys of gold? Back in my days in the aerospace biz,
one vendor proposed using a gold alloy solder. Although it wasn't our
job to review this part of their design, we did toy with the idea of
asking them to ship us a couple of pounds of the proposed solder, 'for
certification purposes'. ;-)

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
IRS: We've got what it takes to take what you've got.
 
"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:

H Brown wrote:

The November 2004 issue of Printed Circuit Design and Manufactire has an
editorial that says theat the European Union is banning the importation of
electronic products containing lead, mercury, cadmium, etc. starting 1 July
2006.

Does anyone have any leads on what alternates there are available to use
instead of lead based solder? Sounds like a real problem to me. With the
quantity of posts on this forum, and my not knowing about the problem before
I may have missed past discussions on this subject.

Any directions 0n where to find more about this subject would be
appreciated.

Harry

Here are the solders that i know about:
1) Sn63, Pb37 MP is 183C (361F) with a max recommended use to 149C
(300F).
2) Sn95.8, Ag3.5, Cu0.7 MP is 217C (423F)
3) Sn96.5, Ag3.5 MP is 221C (430F)
4) Sn65, Sb5 MP is 232C (450F)
I have only personally worked with #1 and #4 and one needs a rather
hot iron to not get cold solder joints with #4.
That makes it a bitch, as that heat tends to make problems with the
ICs one is soldering...

What about various alloys of gold? Back in my days in the aerospace biz,
one vendor proposed using a gold alloy solder. Although it wasn't our
job to review this part of their design, we did toy with the idea of
asking them to ship us a couple of pounds of the proposed solder, 'for
certification purposes'. ;-)

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
IRS: We've got what it takes to take what you've got.
Click to expand...
Do you have any info (element ratios and melting points)?
 
Ken Smith wrote:

In article <a1aoo0dq0ua49q166vhj484ndc9or6i5lo@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
In the US, lead-based batteries must be recycled, and there is a fee
charged when you buy a new battery to pay for the recycling costs.

The actual recycling goes on elsewhere. The "boat loads" of dead
batteries are shipped overseas to be recycled.
Click to expand...
You mean ' recycled '.

Or dumped in a Chinese / Pakistani back yard as I recently heard.


Graham
 
In article <418E015D.469748FA@hotmail.com>,
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ken Smith wrote:

In article <a1aoo0dq0ua49q166vhj484ndc9or6i5lo@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
In the US, lead-based batteries must be recycled, and there is a fee
charged when you buy a new battery to pay for the recycling costs.

The actual recycling goes on elsewhere. The "boat loads" of dead
batteries are shipped overseas to be recycled.

You mean ' recycled '.

Or dumped in a Chinese / Pakistani back yard as I recently heard.
Click to expand...
The lead is worth too much to leave behind. Her's what I understand they
do:

(1)
Knock the caps off the battery and tip it upside down so the acid
drains out and into the soil.

(2)
Make a big pile of the drained batteries and pour gasoline on them. Throw
a match at them and wait while the plastic burns way.

(3)
Scoop up the remains and put them in a big pot.

(4)
Cut down some of the rain forest to build a fire under the big pot to melt
the lead.

(5)
Lead being heavy sinks to the bottom of the pot when it melts. The other
just floats on the surface, so you can get some children to scrap the junk
away from the melt.

(6)
Pour the recycled lead into molds to make it ready for return shipment.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
In article <418DA20B.E5C9AA1D@Hovnanian.com>,
Paul Hovnanian P.E. <Paul@Hovnanian.com> wrote:
[...]
What about various alloys of gold? Back in my days in the aerospace biz,
one vendor proposed using a gold alloy solder. Although it wasn't our
job to review this part of their design, we did toy with the idea of
asking them to ship us a couple of pounds of the proposed solder, 'for
certification purposes'. ;-)
Click to expand...
It may really be worth looking at. The amount of material involved isn't
all that much per unit. The joints would be made with layers about 1
atom thick.

There is a technology where a laser makes a velcro like surface on metal.
We could have boards where the parts are just pressed into place.

--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge
 
In article <418C83DE.822D60D1@hotmail.com>,
Pooh Bear <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Utterly hilarious. Although lead acid batteries rarely find themselves in
landfill - they get recycled. Consumer electronics ends up in landfill -
that's the reason for this.
Click to expand...
Not landfills, incinerators.

Mark Zenier mzenier@eskimo.com Washington State resident
 
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