Laptop not charging.

[Baron]

T i m Inscribed thus:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:30:28 +0000, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

T i m Inscribed thus:

Yesterday, thinking it /could/ be a socket and where the tiny inner
/ 3rd pin connects (thinking it might be a 'sense' wire and a socket
was cheap etc) I changed it for him but again, no improvement.

That third wire the centre pin, is a one wire data interface !

Ah.

The idea
is to prevent you from using a charger that is/was not supplied by the
manufacturer.

So this is how it 'knows' it's a 65W or 90W charger and that a genuine
one is present etc?

Yep !
Also notice that most, if not all, manufacturers are moving in that
direction. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened that way on desktop
machines.

Its quite possible that since the laptop works happily
from the charger, that the communications inside the laptop charging
circuits has been damaged.

I guess anything is possible with that level of 'intelligence. ;-(
The charger board and the mainboard come as a pair. A salvaged
charger board will not work with a different mainboard.

Great (not). ;-(

I agree its not nice.

HTH

It has (thanks), in so far as we needn't waste any money on just a
charger board.

So, unless we can pick up a working system / charger board pair we
have a mains only laptop. ;-(

Cheers, T i m

Its a very crafty way of preventing non-authorised repair agents from
fixing kit on the cheap.

--
Best Regards:

Baron.

 

[Baron]

bz Inscribed thus:

I have fixed many 'bad' supplies by cutting the 'broken' spot out of
the cord. It is usually where the cord gets the most flexing.

finding it, cutting and splicing the cord to fix it can be
challenging.

I usually cut a few inches from the power plug and check with an ohm
meter. If I was lucky, that is the end and some work with a razor
knife, soldering iron and hot glue and you are back working.
If it is at the power brick end, you will probably have to crack the
brick open with a screwdriver and solder the cord into the brick.

Sometimes, I end up with repairs at both ends and a cord that is much
shorter, in between.

Just a note: In the UK its not allowed/legal to do a repair where the
integrity of the repaired item, in this case, the PSU is compromised
such that it could be a hazard to health.

The PSU/brick case is welded together in order to prevent any attempt to
repair it. Making a joint in the cable feeding the appliance is not
considered safe.

Replacing the power connector on the end of the cable, if you can get
one, would be allowed. Unfortunately the manufactures have gone to
great lengths to prevent these from being available from any source.

Hint for all laptop supply users:
NEVER NEVER NEVER wrap the cord tightly around the supply, bending it
sharply near where it exits the supply.
Coil it loosely and let it look messy.

NEVER NEVE NEVER put a aharp bend in the cord near the plug nor near
the brick.

I second these last comments !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 20:50:11 +0000, Baron wrote:

T i m Inscribed thus:

On Sun, 30 Jan 2011 19:30:28 +0000, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

T i m Inscribed thus:

Yesterday, thinking it /could/ be a socket and where the tiny inner /
3rd pin connects (thinking it might be a 'sense' wire and a socket
was cheap etc) I changed it for him but again, no improvement.

That third wire the centre pin, is a one wire data interface !

Ah.

The idea
is to prevent you from using a charger that is/was not supplied by the
manufacturer.

So this is how it 'knows' it's a 65W or 90W charger and that a genuine
one is present etc?

Yep !
Also notice that most, if not all, manufacturers are moving in that
direction. I'm surprised that it hasn't happened that way on desktop
machines.

The 3rd pin on a traditional Dell 19vdc 4500mah is a dummy. I'm using one
on an Asus laptop that had the same requirements. Only thing you need to
watch is using an underrated PSU as you probably will overtax it. Having
more power capacity isn't an issue for obvious reasons. I'm also using an
HP 19vdc supply on a Toshiby. All these have similar CPU configurations
and requirements within +- 10%.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[T i m]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:11:57 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

The 3rd pin on a traditional Dell 19vdc 4500mah is a dummy.

The plot thickens!

I'm using one
on an Asus laptop that had the same requirements.

I'd have to say once I've checked the plug / socket fit, polarity and
current rating I have also done a bit of mix-n-match with no ill
effects (that I know of course).

Only thing you need to
watch is using an underrated PSU as you probably will overtax it.

Daughters old Dell Latitude D520 came to me with a genuine Dell PSU
but possibly the lower rated one of the two (65W V 90W etc?). Wouldn't
these power supplies be current limited to their maximum continuous
rated output so apart from it running hot, shouldn't put them outside
their design parameters?

Wouldn't less current being available at the charger just mean the
laptop takes longer to charge, or not power the laptop and a dock and
an aux battery etc?

Having
more power capacity isn't an issue for obvious reasons.

Indeed and would be my preferred scenario.

I'm also using an
HP 19vdc supply on a Toshiby. All these have similar CPU configurations
and requirements within +- 10%.

Daughters D520 stopped charging the main battery but seems to still
charge the aux battery (in the CD bay) ok.

So, I picked up another battery that seems to power the thing ok but
still isn't charging, presumably pointing to the charger or charging
circuitry in the laptop itself (that charger was supporting both
batteries for a year or so).

I have ordered a Targus universal (90W) charger in any case (for
general use) so can use that to see if it's the charger at least (data
pins permitting etc). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

 

[T i m]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:44:35 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

Wouldn't less current being available at the charger just mean the
laptop takes longer to charge, or not power the laptop and a dock and an
aux battery etc?


I don't know for absolute certainty since I've never pushed the envelope
but an underrated laptop PSU is going to work harder than it is designed
to.

That's the bit I'm unsure on. Ok $100 question could be 'are they
short cct protected? Something that limits it's output to a design
maximum can't theoretically be 'overloaded' can it?

This rationally leads to a premature failure.

Whilst I'm sure you are right in many things I'm not (yet) sure it's
always the case with all these things. ;-)

Consider the analogy of
an underrated PSU in a desktop computer similar.

Other than the load on a desktop PSU is a direct thing whereas the
load on a laptop PSU may depend on what it's doing at the time. ie,
Charging and running, or just running etc. I have noticed that on many
battery powered devices it often says it will take longer to charge
the battery if the device is turned on at the time. Is this down to
the heat of running the device /and/ charging the battery or the fact
the chargers can't generally do both to full power?

As I said, I'm not advocating an underrated PSU for anything, just
that there could be 'nearly enough to do it all and cope ok', 'enough
to do it all' and 'more than enough' (and let's hope there aren't any
shorts on here). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Daughters (technically) 'smaller than it could take' PSU only
ever runs warm. The one powering our TV runs much hotter.

 

[Meat Plow]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 22:33:44 +0000, T i m wrote:

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:11:57 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com
wrote:



The 3rd pin on a traditional Dell 19vdc 4500mah is a dummy.

The plot thickens!

I'm using one
on an Asus laptop that had the same requirements.

I'd have to say once I've checked the plug / socket fit, polarity and
current rating I have also done a bit of mix-n-match with no ill effects
(that I know of course).

Only thing you need to
watch is using an underrated PSU as you probably will overtax it.

Daughters old Dell Latitude D520 came to me with a genuine Dell PSU but
possibly the lower rated one of the two (65W V 90W etc?). Wouldn't these
power supplies be current limited to their maximum continuous rated
output so apart from it running hot, shouldn't put them outside their
design parameters?

Wouldn't less current being available at the charger just mean the
laptop takes longer to charge, or not power the laptop and a dock and an
aux battery etc?

Having
more power capacity isn't an issue for obvious reasons.

Indeed and would be my preferred scenario.

I'm also using an
HP 19vdc supply on a Toshiby. All these have similar CPU configurations
and requirements within +- 10%.

Daughters D520 stopped charging the main battery but seems to still
charge the aux battery (in the CD bay) ok.

So, I picked up another battery that seems to power the thing ok but
still isn't charging, presumably pointing to the charger or charging
circuitry in the laptop itself (that charger was supporting both
batteries for a year or so).

I have ordered a Targus universal (90W) charger in any case (for general
use) so can use that to see if it's the charger at least (data pins
permitting etc). ;-(

Cheers, T i m

I don't know for absolute certainty since I've never pushed the envelope
but an underrated laptop PSU is going to work harder than it is designed
to. This rationally leads to a premature failure. Consider the analogy of
an underrated PSU in a desktop computer similar.





--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

 

[T i m]

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 21:09:25 +0000, Baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

Just a note: In the UK its not allowed/legal to do a repair where the
integrity of the repaired item, in this case, the PSU is compromised
such that it could be a hazard to health.

The PSU/brick case is welded together in order to prevent any attempt to
repair it. Making a joint in the cable feeding the appliance is not
considered safe.

Replacing the power connector on the end of the cable, if you can get
one, would be allowed. Unfortunately the manufactures have gone to
great lengths to prevent these from being available from any source.

Update:

A replacement primary battery came today for daughters Latitude D520
and when I fitted it the BIOS Battery Info screen when from 'not
installed' (empty bay or with the old battery fitted) to 'Discharging'
with the new battery so that was something. ;-)

Then I found a faulty 90W Dell adaptor I had kicking about and when I
powered it up it made a noise like it was trying but didn't light the
LED nor put any voltage on the output plug. With both daughters and
this charger disconnected from the mains and after insuring there was
no output voltage I measured the output resistance on both and found
the 'dead' one to be shorted (good one about 200 ohms).

With nothing to lose I carefully cut it open the duff adaptor and
after a bit of experimenting concluded the short was in the cable as
it exits the power brick. With a decent iron and de soldering pump I
removed the iffy output lead, trimmed it a few inches shorter and re
heat-shrunk and connected the cables. I put it back in it's case,
taped it up and powered it up, LED on and 19V on the output. ;-)

Plugged it into the D520, "AC Adaptor = 90W' and the primary battery
status changed to 'Charging'. ;-)

So the D520 looked like it had two faults, a dead primary battery and
faulty ID function (I'll check that one out tomorrow). It also seems
the modular bay battery isn't so fussy about the PSU and has been
charging and working ok.

We then tried the same 'test' PSU in daughters b/fs not-charging
Inspiron 1545 and it also now detects the charger but didn't seem to
want to start to charge. He says the battery had about 2hrs life
before it stopped charging. A mate has a 1545 so we will try his
battery in this one before doing anything further.

I'll provide another update as / when we know anything on that.

As the round plug from the D520 adaptor fits the octagonal socket on
the 1545 I may get a pair of genuine Dell 90W adaptors with round
plugs as they can both use either.

Thanks again to all those who have offered help / feedback on this so
far.

Cheers, T i m

 

[Baron]

Hi Tim,
T i m Inscribed thus:

Update:

A replacement primary battery came today for daughters Latitude D520
and when I fitted it the BIOS Battery Info screen when from 'not
installed' (empty bay or with the old battery fitted) to 'Discharging'
with the new battery so that was something. ;-)

Sounds like the protection circuits in the battery killed the feed to
charge it. If you decide to investigate you will probably find that
one or more cells has died.

Then I found a faulty 90W Dell adaptor I had kicking about and when I
powered it up it made a noise like it was trying but didn't light the
LED nor put any voltage on the output plug. With both daughters and
this charger disconnected from the mains and after insuring there was
no output voltage I measured the output resistance on both and found
the 'dead' one to be shorted (good one about 200 ohms).

That sounds right for a good adaptor.

With nothing to lose I carefully cut it open the duff adaptor and
after a bit of experimenting concluded the short was in the cable as
it exits the power brick. With a decent iron and de soldering pump I
removed the iffy output lead, trimmed it a few inches shorter and re
heat-shrunk and connected the cables. I put it back in it's case,
taped it up and powered it up, LED on and 19V on the output. ;-)

Sounds good ! I bet you've done this before... ;-)

Plugged it into the D520, "AC Adaptor = 90W' and the primary battery
status changed to 'Charging'. ;-)

So the D520 looked like it had two faults, a dead primary battery and
faulty ID function (I'll check that one out tomorrow). It also seems
the modular bay battery isn't so fussy about the PSU and has been
charging and working ok.

Yea, a result !

We then tried the same 'test' PSU in daughters b/fs not-charging
Inspiron 1545 and it also now detects the charger but didn't seem to
want to start to charge. He says the battery had about 2hrs life
before it stopped charging. A mate has a 1545 so we will try his
battery in this one before doing anything further.

I'll provide another update as / when we know anything on that.

Thanks for this update ! Its nice to know.

As the round plug from the D520 adaptor fits the octagonal socket on
the 1545 I may get a pair of genuine Dell 90W adaptors with round
plugs as they can both use either.

Thanks again to all those who have offered help / feedback on this so
far.

Cheers, T i m

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[T i m]

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:51:06 +0000, Baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

A replacement primary battery came today for daughters Latitude D520
and when I fitted it the BIOS Battery Info screen when from 'not
installed' (empty bay or with the old battery fitted) to 'Discharging'
with the new battery so that was something. ;-)

Sounds like the protection circuits in the battery killed the feed to
charge it. If you decide to investigate you will probably find that
one or more cells has died.

OK, now we are back online with a new battery I may well have a closer
look. I understand it wasn't lasting very long before it failed but
the presence of the modular battery masked it a bit.

snip
I put it back in it's case,
taped it up and powered it up, LED on and 19V on the output. ;-)

Sounds good ! I bet you've done this before... ;-)

Indeed, with all sorts of stuff (I feel if it's already 'broken' you
have little to lose). I have always got more fun out of fixing
something then using it than just going out and buying it / a new one.
<Mutter> years ago I designed, built and ran my own mobile disco (for
my own pleasure really <g&gt. 1.5kw 3 way stereo PA, console with
mixer, 8 channel light sequencer (before you could easily buy such
things), strobe and all the speaker cabs etc. I drove it about in a
Morris Minor van that I bought for Ł25 and put another gearbox in at
the car park where I bought it before I could drive it home. ;-) [1]

Plugged it into the D520, "AC Adaptor = 90W' and the primary battery
status changed to 'Charging'. ;-)

So the D520 looked like it had two faults, a dead primary battery and
faulty ID function (I'll check that one out tomorrow). It also seems
the modular bay battery isn't so fussy about the PSU and has been
charging and working ok.

Yea, a result !

A result indeed <g>. She likes the D520 and was happy to carry on with
it even as it was. We /could/ get her something else but this laptop
does have a nice substantial feel to it so we are all happy it's fully
working again. [2] The replacement battery ran for 3 hours this
morning and the modular battery is at least 80% good.

We then tried the same 'test' PSU in daughters b/fs not-charging
Inspiron 1545 and it also now detects the charger but didn't seem to
want to start to charge. He says the battery had about 2hrs life
before it stopped charging. A mate has a 1545 so we will try his
battery in this one before doing anything further.

I'll provide another update as / when we know anything on that.

Thanks for this update ! Its nice to know.

My pleasure. So, we took his laptop to my mates PC show and were lucky
to have the chance to try all different combinations of laptop,
battery and charger.

The first smile was to see a known good battery and charger in his
lappy charging AOk (so all the charging circuitry was ok <phew&gt. The
second was later back at home when my multifunction charger arrived
from eBay and was 'seen' by the Dells as a 90W adaptor. The cherry on
the cake was when he left the Targus connected and after about an hour
mentioned that his presumed 'dead' battery was now showing 14% charge.
Left it slowly rose to 100% and he's currently running it down and has
run about 40 mins with 20 left.

I' thin opened the original chargers for both machines and both had

broken data wires at the plug end. I have 3 on their way at a fiver
each and if they work they will be cheap genuine chargers. ;-)

I found this very interesting on Youtube (very well put together as
well):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/5r8rl79

We picked up a clone Dell charger that seems to advertise it's a 150W
device (it isn't, it's a 90W). Maybe someone found a batch of unwanted
chips or thought that responding with '150W' would make more kit
happy?

Cheers, T i m

[1] My most recent challenge was a 13 month old Zanussi washing
machine I picked up on Freecycle. It had been written off by the
insurance Co with failed bearings as not being economical to repair
because the drum was in a /sealed/ plastic tub. I was also told by all
the whitegoods gurus that it was a lost cause but it's still running
very well some 18 months later. <weg>

[2] The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
back up to Scotland (400 miles away).

 

[baron]

T i m Inscribed thus:

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:51:06 +0000, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

A replacement primary battery came today for daughters Latitude D520
and when I fitted it the BIOS Battery Info screen when from 'not
installed' (empty bay or with the old battery fitted) to
'Discharging' with the new battery so that was something. ;-)

Sounds like the protection circuits in the battery killed the feed to
charge it. If you decide to investigate you will probably find that
one or more cells has died.

OK, now we are back online with a new battery I may well have a closer
look. I understand it wasn't lasting very long before it failed but
the presence of the modular battery masked it a bit.

snip
I put it back in it's case,
taped it up and powered it up, LED on and 19V on the output. ;-)

Sounds good ! I bet you've done this before... ;-)

Indeed, with all sorts of stuff (I feel if it's already 'broken' you
have little to lose). I have always got more fun out of fixing
something then using it than just going out and buying it / a new one.
Mutter> years ago I designed, built and ran my own mobile disco (for
my own pleasure really <g&gt. 1.5kw 3 way stereo PA, console with
mixer, 8 channel light sequencer (before you could easily buy such
things), strobe and all the speaker cabs etc. I drove it about in a
Morris Minor van that I bought for ÂŁ25 and put another gearbox in at
the car park where I bought it before I could drive it home. ;-) [1]

You sound a bit like someone else I used to know.
He did something similar... with a van.

Plugged it into the D520, "AC Adaptor = 90W' and the primary battery
status changed to 'Charging'. ;-)

So the D520 looked like it had two faults, a dead primary battery
and faulty ID function (I'll check that one out tomorrow). It also
seems the modular bay battery isn't so fussy about the PSU and has
been charging and working ok.

Yea, a result !

A result indeed <g>. She likes the D520 and was happy to carry on with
it even as it was. We /could/ get her something else but this laptop
does have a nice substantial feel to it so we are all happy it's fully
working again. [2] The replacement battery ran for 3 hours this
morning and the modular battery is at least 80% good.

We then tried the same 'test' PSU in daughters b/fs not-charging
Inspiron 1545 and it also now detects the charger but didn't seem to
want to start to charge. He says the battery had about 2hrs life
before it stopped charging. A mate has a 1545 so we will try his
battery in this one before doing anything further.

I'll provide another update as / when we know anything on that.

Thanks for this update ! Its nice to know.

My pleasure. So, we took his laptop to my mates PC show and were lucky
to have the chance to try all different combinations of laptop,
battery and charger.

The first smile was to see a known good battery and charger in his
lappy charging AOk (so all the charging circuitry was ok <phew&gt. The
second was later back at home when my multifunction charger arrived
from eBay and was 'seen' by the Dells as a 90W adaptor. The cherry on
the cake was when he left the Targus connected and after about an hour
mentioned that his presumed 'dead' battery was now showing 14% charge.
Left it slowly rose to 100% and he's currently running it down and has
run about 40 mins with 20 left.

I' then opened the original chargers for both machines and both had
broken data wires at the plug end. I have 3 on their way at a fiver
each and if they work they will be cheap genuine chargers. ;-)

I presume you mean the chargers and not the plugs for them.
I've yet to find a source for the 3 wire plug.

I found this very interesting on Youtube (very well put together as
well):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/5r8rl79

I agree ! very interesting. It answers a couple of questions.

We picked up a clone Dell charger that seems to advertise it's a 150W
device (it isn't, it's a 90W). Maybe someone found a batch of unwanted
chips or thought that responding with '150W' would make more kit
happy?

Sounds like someone has doctored the unit.

Cheers, T i m

[1] My most recent challenge was a 13 month old Zanussi washing
machine I picked up on Freecycle. It had been written off by the
insurance Co with failed bearings as not being economical to repair
because the drum was in a /sealed/ plastic tub. I was also told by all
the whitegoods gurus that it was a lost cause but it's still running
very well some 18 months later. <weg

Those washing machines with the plastic tubs are quite straight forward
to replace the bearings in. In fact I may still have a repair kit or
two kicking around.

The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
back up to Scotland (400 miles away).

The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.

Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[T i m]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:25:01 +0000, baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

I' then opened the original chargers for both machines and both had
broken data wires at the plug end. I have 3 on their way at a fiver
each and if they work they will be cheap genuine chargers. ;-)

I presume you mean the chargers and not the plugs for them.

Sorry no, the output lead, strain relief bush and Dell 3 way tubular
plug.

I've yet to find a source for the 3 wire plug.

That's what I first looked for but took the lead assay as it probably
wouldn't have been much in it price wise. Ordered yesterday, arrived
today and I'm going in .... ;-)

I found this very interesting on Youtube (very well put together as
well):

http://preview.tinyurl.com/5r8rl79

I agree ! very interesting. It answers a couple of questions.

I guess if it's easy to implement (one wire and two legs at the
charger end) and cheap then I can see why they might.

We picked up a clone Dell charger that seems to advertise it's a 150W
device (it isn't, it's a 90W). Maybe someone found a batch of unwanted
chips or thought that responding with '150W' would make more kit
happy?

Sounds like someone has doctored the unit.

It's a clone so who knows. [1]

[1] My most recent challenge was a 13 month old Zanussi washing
machine I picked up on Freecycle. It had been written off by the
insurance Co with failed bearings as not being economical to repair
because the drum was in a /sealed/ plastic tub. I was also told by all
the whitegoods gurus that it was a lost cause but it's still running
very well some 18 months later. <weg

Those washing machines with the plastic tubs are quite straight forward
to replace the bearings in. In fact I may still have a repair kit or
two kicking around.

Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.
Ironically the tub halves (front and back) were actually designed to
be bolted together with a gasket / seal but some bright spark
suggested they could save 10 screws, a seal and assembly time to they
were welded together after that. The typical 'repair' would be two new
tub halves, the screws, seal (the bearings you were going to replace
anyway) and I understand, different suspension mountings, hence the
write-off (at 13 months).

[2] The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
back up to Scotland (400 miles away).

The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.

Noted.

Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.

It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Enthused with the progress on these two machines I've picked up a
mates daughters Dell Studio 1535 that had a failed charger a while
back. We bought a replacement charger that I can now prove isn't fully
'Dell compatible' (no chip etc) but they bought a replacement battery
from eBay but that never worked. When you turn it on with the
replacement battery it says:

"Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
This system will be unable to charge this battery"

With the original battery in it says:

"This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
replaced".

I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
laptop.

 

[Baron]

T i m Inscribed thus:

Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.
Ironically the tub halves (front and back) were actually designed to
be bolted together with a gasket / seal but some bright spark
suggested they could save 10 screws, a seal and assembly time to they
were welded together after that. The typical 'repair' would be two new
tub halves, the screws, seal (the bearings you were going to replace
anyway) and I understand, different suspension mountings, hence the
write-off (at 13 months).

Mmm. The ones I was thinking about have a series of metal spring clips
around the perimeter of the tub. The bearings are essentially clamped
in place between the lip on the inner side and a plate on the other
with the shaft and pulley, its retaining bolt holding the lot together.

The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
back up to Scotland (400 miles away).

The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.

Noted.

Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.

It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

At least something good from the destruction caused by the wind.

Enthused with the progress on these two machines I've picked up a
mates daughters Dell Studio 1535 that had a failed charger a while
back. We bought a replacement charger that I can now prove isn't fully
'Dell compatible' (no chip etc) but they bought a replacement battery
from eBay but that never worked. When you turn it on with the
replacement battery it says:

"Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
This system will be unable to charge this battery"

With the original battery in it says:

"This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
replaced".

I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
laptop.

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

I've have cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[T i m]

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:14:24 +0000, Baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.

<snip>

Mmm. The ones I was thinking about have a series of metal spring clips
around the perimeter of the tub. The bearings are essentially clamped
in place between the lip on the inner side and a plate on the other
with the shaft and pulley, its retaining bolt holding the lot together.

Ah no. Inner bearing fits up against the drum and into rear bearing
mount from the front. Outer bearing from the outside held in place by
the belt drive wheel and a nylock nut (bearing construction similar to
a car road wheel hub etc).

It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)

At least something good from the destruction caused by the wind.

Well, yes, I guess. Still not nice to profit from the miseries of
others but there is still some 'good work' that can be done (clearing
side roads / tracks / paths etc). When they were on their way back up
last time the bridge was being washed away at Cockermouth. ;-(

snip

I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
laptop.

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(

I've have cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is an
A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do it.
I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most of the
Dell batteries are the same (so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

 

[Baron]

T i m Inscribed thus:

I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or
the laptop.

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(

So I understand.

I've had cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is an
A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do it.
I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most of the
Dell batteries are the same

Yes but they put the connector block in different places on the battery
pack ! You will have to let me know how it goes.

(so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

I couldn't agree more.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[T i m]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:03:07 +0000, Baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(

So I understand.

Ok ta. I've asked on the Dell n/g if anyone can confirm if this
particular model / generation does so for sure, just in case it could
be summat else.

I've had cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is an
A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do it.
I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most of the
Dell batteries are the same

Yes but they put the connector block in different places on the battery
pack !

Yeahbut this charger is what I would call more of a tech / service aid
as the charging plug is floating on the end of a wire and (can be)
held against the battery with a Velcro tie. This morning I used it to
charge the battery from the Studio 1535 (and therefore was able to
apply the BIOS update) and currently I'm seeing if it can wake up the
old battery from daughter D510 Latitude (only to see if I / it can,
I'm pretty sure it's pretty low capacity now).

You will have to let me know how it goes.

So far I'd say pretty well, insofar as it has allowed me to update the
BIOS and prove an unknown battery to be good even if not compatible
with the laptop. ;-(

(so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)


I couldn't agree more.

This 1 Wire stuff may well be there for good reason (?) but when
charging up old laptops with basic two wire connections and NiCd/NiMH
they just charge, even if they only last for 5 mins (enough time to
act like a UPS). If they don't a bench PSU might get you started ...
<sigh>

I'm now looking to see if I can borrow a battery for the 1535 before I
suggested they buy 'another/ batter but at least this time we will
know what questions to ask. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?

 

[Jim Yanik]

T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in
newshlrk6taaau37uidklrcla4h0772rsu9rv@4ax.com:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:03:07 +0000, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(

So I understand.

Ok ta. I've asked on the Dell n/g if anyone can confirm if this
particular model / generation does so for sure, just in case it could
be summat else.

I've had cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is an
A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do it.
I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most of the
Dell batteries are the same

Yes but they put the connector block in different places on the battery
pack !

Yeahbut this charger is what I would call more of a tech / service aid
as the charging plug is floating on the end of a wire and (can be)
held against the battery with a Velcro tie. This morning I used it to
charge the battery from the Studio 1535 (and therefore was able to
apply the BIOS update) and currently I'm seeing if it can wake up the
old battery from daughter D510 Latitude (only to see if I / it can,
I'm pretty sure it's pretty low capacity now).

You will have to let me know how it goes.

So far I'd say pretty well, insofar as it has allowed me to update the
BIOS and prove an unknown battery to be good even if not compatible
with the laptop. ;-(

(so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)


I couldn't agree more.

This 1 Wire stuff may well be there for good reason (?) but when
charging up old laptops with basic two wire connections and NiCd/NiMH
they just charge, even if they only last for 5 mins (enough time to
act like a UPS). If they don't a bench PSU might get you started ...
sigh

I'm now looking to see if I can borrow a battery for the 1535 before I
suggested they buy 'another/ batter but at least this time we will
know what questions to ask. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?

maybe it's better to buy generic laptops instead of name brands,and then
you can use generic chargers and battery packs.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

 

[T i m]

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:35:58 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?


maybe it's better to buy generic laptops instead of name brands,and then
you can use generic chargers and battery packs.

Assuming they all aren't going that way as has been suggested then yes
I guess it would.

FWIW the only laptop I have ever bought new was a Compaq Contura and I
think that may have been a 386. The rest were mostly given to me
(broken) or sold cheap (low spec or with known faults) etc.

Daughters Dell Latitude came the cheap way (mate buys laptops by the
pallet) with an unknown BIOS password but Ł20 and t'internet had that
sorted. ;-)

Daughters b/f bought the Dell Inspiron 1545 new as did the owner of
the Studio 1535 I'm looking at now and in light of the current issues
I'm not sure if either would go that way again. However, how could you
tell if a laptop used 'tied' components like this?

Also, I wonder what proportion of laptop buyers go looking for cheap
replacement bits off eBay versus buying them straight off the
manufacturers web site (and therefore never 'seeing the problems')?

IN the case of the Dells I have here atm I'm not sure any of the
issues have said 'This is not a Dell battery / adaptor' but:

"This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
replaced".

"Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
This system will be unable to charge this battery"

... and similar with the power adaptors.

So presumably those could still happen whoever's brand sticker was on
the machine itself?

But yes, bring on the 'generic / modular' laptop (so it works more
like desktop clones) where not just things like optical drives can be
swapped between brands (and CPUs, RAM, HDDs etc) but system boards,
chargers and batteries.

But then I have never seen why we need so many different cars, washing
machines, TVs .....

Cheers, T i m

 

[Baron]

T i m Inscribed thus:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 21:03:07 +0000, Baron
baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(

So I understand.

Ok ta. I've asked on the Dell n/g if anyone can confirm if this
particular model / generation does so for sure, just in case it could
be summat else.

Good move !

I've had cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is
an A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do
it. I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most
of the Dell batteries are the same

Yes but they put the connector block in different places on the
battery pack !

Yeah but this charger is what I would call more of a tech / service
aid as the charging plug is floating on the end of a wire and (can be)
held against the battery with a Velcro tie. This morning I used it to
charge the battery from the Studio 1535 (and therefore was able to
apply the BIOS update) and currently I'm seeing if it can wake up the
old battery from daughter D510 Latitude (only to see if I / it can,
I'm pretty sure it's pretty low capacity now).

Ah. I envisioned a unit that the battery was placed into rather than a
connector on a flying lead. I would be interested in the pin out for
that.

You will have to let me know how it goes.

So far I'd say pretty well, insofar as it has allowed me to update the
BIOS and prove an unknown battery to be good even if not compatible
with the laptop. ;-(

(so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)


I couldn't agree more.

This 1 Wire stuff may well be there for good reason (?) but when
charging up old laptops with basic two wire connections and NiCd/NiMH
they just charge, even if they only last for 5 mins (enough time to
act like a UPS). If they don't a bench PSU might get you started ...
sigh

I'm now looking to see if I can borrow a battery for the 1535 before I
suggested they buy 'another/ batter but at least this time we will
know what questions to ask. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?

I'm not at all sure ! The battery packs that I've taken apart have not
had, what I would call "dead Cells" ! Usually there is one or two
cells that have very low voltages compared to the others. I have tried
to boost the voltage on the low ones without disconnecting the others,
and found that they recover just fine. Even so the pack still will not
charge though it will power the machine as normal. Beyond that I've
not really had the inclination to investigate further.

As an aside I have a set of recovered cells happily powering an alarm
bell, float charged from the regulated 12V supply.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

 

[T i m]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:37:34 +0000, Baron <baron@linuxmaniac.net>
wrote:

Yeah but this charger is what I would call more of a tech / service
aid as the charging plug is floating on the end of a wire and (can be)
held against the battery with a Velcro tie.

Ah. I envisioned a unit that the battery was placed into rather than a
connector on a flying lead.

Understood as that's how yer typical charger works. The fact that this
charger is supposed to cope with near 'all' Dell batteries with the
one connector and many other makes with different connectors made it
all the more interesting. Apparently, if you get the connector on this
model reversed (we were only talking about the Dell batteries at the
time) nothing happens (good or bad). The previous model would release
pixy smoke from somewhere. The guy also ok'd the idea of being able to
supply the different ends as required and as available for about a
fiver each.

When you power it up you get a single red LED on the (sealed) power
'brick'. Plug it into a (good) battery and the 4 green LEDs light up
in sequence then extinguish (2 second cycle). Once the battery reaches
20% the first LED stays on and the remaining 3 cycle etc etc. It took
about 4 hours to bring this 1535 batter from 0% to 90 or so was about
3.5 hours so I imaging the charge current might be quite low (I don't
mind that).

I would be interested in the pin out for
that.

Well there is a 4 pin plug that goes into the brick and another 4 pin
bigger connector in the middle of the short lead to the battery plug.
The next time I get the DMM out .. ;-)

Similarly (and as much use I guess) would be the pinout of the cells
to the connector, if I get to pull a pack apart?

p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?

I'm not at all sure !

Part of my doing all this is because (mostly) I like to understand
what's going on behind the scenes (a classic being that Youtube 1 Wire
power adaptor tutorial).

The battery packs that I've taken apart have not
had, what I would call "dead Cells" !

Exactly? ;-(

Usually there is one or two
cells that have very low voltages compared to the others.

[1]

I have tried
to boost the voltage on the low ones without disconnecting the others,
and found that they recover just fine.

We would call that 'balancing' in the RC model racing game. ;-)

Even so the pack still will not
charge though it will power the machine as normal.

Oh. So there may be summat 'deeper' going on here. Like with some
printers when they reach their nominal max print run limits?

Beyond that I've
not really had the inclination to investigate further.

I would if there was some logic and low cost to the process. Like if I
was given a batch of known good cells and a few battery packs to strip
down. Other than that it means a bit of gambling buying new cells and
we aren't really in a position to do too much of that right now.

As an aside I have a set of recovered cells happily powering an alarm
bell, float charged from the regulated 12V supply.

It can be done, sometimes. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] I have 6 'consumer' NiMH 'D" cells (that feel like they are AAs in
a 'D' size case .... and probably are) and four of them are currently
in our automatic kitchen rubbish bin lid mech. ;-)

I did start going through the 6 cells with Ah measuring recycler but
'she' needed this working. So, as the lid goes flat I'm measuring the
lowest voltage cell and replacing it with a known good one in the hope
I'll end up with the best matched set. ;-)

 

[Jim Yanik]

T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in
news:mossk6hs8bi9gft3d053asj1tbv1t0q01j@4ax.com:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2011 17:35:58 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:


p.s. I was wondering just how the original Dell battery declared
itself 'dead' and therefore, if I was to re-cell the original with the
cells from the clone, will it be happy (or have the electronics now
shut down for good)?


maybe it's better to buy generic laptops instead of name brands,and then
you can use generic chargers and battery packs.

Assuming they all aren't going that way as has been suggested then yes
I guess it would.

FWIW the only laptop I have ever bought new was a Compaq Contura and I
think that may have been a 386. The rest were mostly given to me
(broken) or sold cheap (low spec or with known faults) etc.

Daughters Dell Latitude came the cheap way (mate buys laptops by the
pallet) with an unknown BIOS password but Ł20 and t'internet had that
sorted. ;-)

Daughters b/f bought the Dell Inspiron 1545 new as did the owner of
the Studio 1535 I'm looking at now and in light of the current issues
I'm not sure if either would go that way again. However, how could you
tell if a laptop used 'tied' components like this?

I don't know.

Also, I wonder what proportion of laptop buyers go looking for cheap
replacement bits off eBay versus buying them straight off the
manufacturers web site (and therefore never 'seeing the problems')?

IN the case of the Dells I have here atm I'm not sure any of the
issues have said 'This is not a Dell battery / adaptor' but:

"This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
replaced".

"Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
This system will be unable to charge this battery"

.. and similar with the power adaptors.

So presumably those could still happen whoever's brand sticker was on
the machine itself?

But yes, bring on the 'generic / modular' laptop (so it works more
like desktop clones) where not just things like optical drives can be
swapped between brands (and CPUs, RAM, HDDs etc) but system boards,
chargers and batteries.

But then I have never seen why we need so many different cars, washing
machines, TVs .....

different people want different features.
I prefer small cars that handle well and have "ample accelleration",while
others want armored tanks that ride like boats and seat half a dozen.

Cheers, T i m

IMO,those "chipped" suppplies/battery packs are just an effort to
monopolize their products,so you can't use generic chargers or battery
packs and save money.
The "generic" charger or battery pack just has it's internal ID chip
programmed to suit a particular manufacturer,and a "brand name" tag
applied,raising the price and profit margin.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com