Laptop/ drill rechargable batterys.. methods for longer life

[krw]

In article <gjthdt$fd9$1@news.motzarella.org>,
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net says...>

It's my understanding that dendrites grow in the presence of
an electric field. If they're totally flat there should be no growth.

What is "totally flat"? You can't drive a battery pack down to zero, only
individual cells.

Right. Let them go flat all by themselves. Forcing the issue
certainly isn't healthy. Compare this with lead-acid chemistry,
where they should never be left to go flat and be stored with a
float-charge.

 

[Jim Yanik]

krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:MPG.23cc02c6de26120d9897a4@news.individual.net:

In article <Xns9B8A54E027326jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjsuqu$ugp$1@news.motzarella.org:

I have some from the '60s that still work (I may have finally thrown
them out in the last move). As long as they're stored flat they
should last virtually forever.

What about them drying out?




I don't believe the electrolyte is water-based.
I also don't believe that about "stored flat they should last virtually
forever",as they will still grow crystal spikes that short out the cell.

It's my understanding that dendrites grow in the presence of an
electric field. If they're totally flat there should be no growth.

define "totally flat",or just "flat".

Are you saying -zero- volts per cell?

If there's -any- charge on them,they'll grow dendrites.

In my experience,NiCds that aren't used regularly go bad quickly.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[krw]

In article <Xns9B8A9ED288FC6jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.87>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...>

krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:MPG.23cc02c6de26120d9897a4@news.individual.net:

In article <Xns9B8A54E027326jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjsuqu$ugp$1@news.motzarella.org:

I have some from the '60s that still work (I may have finally thrown
them out in the last move). As long as they're stored flat they
should last virtually forever.

What about them drying out?




I don't believe the electrolyte is water-based.
I also don't believe that about "stored flat they should last virtually
forever",as they will still grow crystal spikes that short out the cell.

It's my understanding that dendrites grow in the presence of an
electric field. If they're totally flat there should be no growth.


define "totally flat",or just "flat".

Are you saying -zero- volts per cell?

Yes. That's flat. They'll self-discharge all the way to zero in a
year or so.

If there's -any- charge on them,they'll grow dendrites.

There won't be charge in them long.

In my experience,NiCds that aren't used regularly go bad quickly.

Either you buy incredibly crappy batteries or you're doing
something bad to them.

 

[Jim Yanik]

krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:MPG.23cc369edf443da09897ad@news.individual.net:

In article <Xns9B8A9ED288FC6jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.87>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...
krw <krw@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:MPG.23cc02c6de26120d9897a4@news.individual.net:

In article <Xns9B8A54E027326jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.86>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjsuqu$ugp$1@news.motzarella.org:

I have some from the '60s that still work (I may have finally
thrown them out in the last move). As long as they're stored
flat they should last virtually forever.

What about them drying out?




I don't believe the electrolyte is water-based.
I also don't believe that about "stored flat they should last
virtually forever",as they will still grow crystal spikes that
short out the cell.

It's my understanding that dendrites grow in the presence of an
electric field. If they're totally flat there should be no growth.


define "totally flat",or just "flat".

Are you saying -zero- volts per cell?

Yes. That's flat. They'll self-discharge all the way to zero in a
year or so.

and won't recover,either.

If there's -any- charge on them,they'll grow dendrites.

There won't be charge in them long.

evidently long enough to grow dendrites.

In my experience,NiCds that aren't used regularly go bad quickly.

Either you buy incredibly crappy batteries or you're doing
something bad to them.

that experience would include my own purchases(like B&D and Makita) and
those of Tektronix for their battery-powered products.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[hr(bob) hofmann@att.net]

On Jan 5, 6:34 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:

krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote innews:MPG.23cc369edf443da09897ad@news.individual.net:





In article <Xns9B8A9ED288FC6jyanikkua...@74.209.136.87>,
jya...@abuse.gov says...
krw <k...@att.zzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:MPG.23cc02c6de26120d9897a4@news.individual.net:

In article <Xns9B8A54E027326jyanikkua...@74.209.136.86>,
jya...@abuse.gov says...
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjsuqu$ugp$1@news.motzarella.org:

I have some from the '60s that still work (I may have finally
thrown them out in the last move). As long as they're stored
flat they should last virtually forever.

What about them drying out?

I don't believe the electrolyte is water-based.
I also don't believe that about "stored flat they should last
virtually forever",as they will still grow crystal spikes that
short out the cell.

It's my understanding that dendrites grow in the presence of an
electric field.  If they're totally flat there should be no growth..

define "totally flat",or just "flat".

Are you saying -zero- volts per cell?

Yes.  That's flat.  They'll self-discharge all the way to zero in a
year or so.

and won't recover,either.



If there's -any- charge on them,they'll grow dendrites.

There won't be charge in them long.

evidently long enough to grow dendrites.



In my experience,NiCds that aren't used regularly go bad quickly.

Either you buy incredibly crappy batteries or you're doing
something bad to them.  

that experience would include my own purchases(like B&D and Makita) and
those of Tektronix for their battery-powered products.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can almost always burn the dendrites off with a current thru the
battery of 10 amps or so for a few seconds. The problem is that you
may have to take the battery pack apart to get to each cell to see
which one(s) have developed shorts.

 

[krw]

On 5 Jan 2009 04:53:44 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjr7ha$2an$1@news.motzarella.org:

I had always read that nicads should be run down before being
recharged. I've done that with my Dust Buster and gotten excellent
battery life out of it.




the DB is designed to stay on the charger 24/7/365.(at least my model is)
Mine lasted 10 yrs before needing a new pack,which was cheaper thna buying
a new DB.

you can buy NiCd cells at Digi-Key specifically designed for continuous
charging.

I suppose you believe Ron Popiel too. The nature of the batery
chemistry says that this is false.

 

[Jim Yanik]

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:b7o5m4tjefsg1h8ff0mg71bnu978gkcue4@4ax.com:

On 5 Jan 2009 04:53:44 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjr7ha$2an$1@news.motzarella.org:

I had always read that nicads should be run down before being
recharged. I've done that with my Dust Buster and gotten excellent
battery life out of it.




the DB is designed to stay on the charger 24/7/365.(at least my model
is) Mine lasted 10 yrs before needing a new pack,which was cheaper
thna buying a new DB.

you can buy NiCd cells at Digi-Key specifically designed for
continuous charging.

I suppose you believe Ron Popiel too. The nature of the batery
chemistry says that this is false.

Hey,I'm just relating what DIGI-KEY lists in their catalog;NiCds
specifically designed for continous charge;24/7/365.

Digi Key is not RONCO.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[krw]

In article <Xns9B8B7BE99513Ejyanikkuanet@74.209.136.84>,
jyanik@abuse.gov says...>

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in
news:b7o5m4tjefsg1h8ff0mg71bnu978gkcue4@4ax.com:

On 5 Jan 2009 04:53:44 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gjr7ha$2an$1@news.motzarella.org:

I had always read that nicads should be run down before being
recharged. I've done that with my Dust Buster and gotten excellent
battery life out of it.




the DB is designed to stay on the charger 24/7/365.(at least my model
is) Mine lasted 10 yrs before needing a new pack,which was cheaper
thna buying a new DB.

you can buy NiCd cells at Digi-Key specifically designed for
continuous charging.

I suppose you believe Ron Popiel too. The nature of the batery
chemistry says that this is false.


Hey,I'm just relating what DIGI-KEY lists in their catalog;NiCds
specifically designed for continous charge;24/7/365.

Specifically designed <> works. I believe the chemists.

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

 

[Chris Jones]

krw wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:50:49 -0500, Jamie
jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

Allodoxaphobia wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:22:09 -0500, Jamie wrote:

I have a fire storm B&D and Crapsman drills , I do use them
alot but I do not charge the packs when done. I just throw them
in a little frig I have in the shop.


So -- when you need to use a drill, its battery is both cold _AND_
discharged.

I wonder why no one else has ever come up with this Grand Idea?
I don't know, I do know that I learned that trick from my
grandmother. She used to store the dry cells in the frig..

In case anyone hasn't told you, NiCds and NHMs aren't dry cells. These
cells don't benefit from storing cold, but are damaged by high
temperatures. Your idea of draining them before storage is almost
right. NiCds and NMHs should be stored discharged, but there is no
need to discharge them; they'll do that themselves, just fine, and you
won't risk reverse charging a cell. Discharging multi-cell NiCds
damages more batteries than anything else. Over-charging is second.

I agree that many people are too keen on discharging their packs until every
last bit of charge has been removed, at which point one of the cells will
be reverse charged and damaged.

If you store them fully charged and let them self-discharge, the rate of
self-discharge is likely to be different between different cells in the
pack, meaning that after storage there will be a wide variation in the
state of charge between the different cells. Then if the pack is
subsequently fast-charged, one of the cells may get overcharged.

I would aim to get the pack nearly flat, but not so flat that any of the
cells is at any risk of being reverse charged, before storing the pack for
a long period.

Chris

 

[Jim Yanik]

Chris Jones <lugnut808@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:v7P8l.129655$i_6.83968@newsfe11.ams2:

I would aim to get the pack nearly flat, but not so flat that any of
the cells is at any risk of being reverse charged, before storing the
pack for a long period.

Chris

I'd aim to get lithium-ion packs,that will retain a usable charge for
several months.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier that's been
around about 20 years. They sell no consumer products.

 

[Jim Yanik]

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:gk0l0p$60h$1@news.motzarella.org:

JY wrote;

Digi Key is not RONCO.

krw wrote;
Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier that's been
around about 20 years. They sell no consumer products.

it kinda destroys krw's credibility.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

[krw]

In article <gk0l0p$60h$1@news.motzarella.org>,
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net says...>

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier that's been
around about 20 years. They sell no consumer products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

 

bob urz wrote:

Having owned many of these, i often wondered on how to get
the most lifetime out of the battery's.

I have had little used 14.4 volt drills that after 2 or 3
years the battery packs become very degraded. I this case,
the drill sits unused for a long period of time, then recharged
before next use.

Laptops, same story. occasional use, sits for awhile then used again.

Batteries are usually rated for so many cycles of recharging.
So, should it be better to constantly recharge the units,
or only charge as needed?

The charge as needed method for units that sit for awhile does not
seem to work out very well. I have a number of drill power packs
that i need to find some of those tab ni-cads for. I think there
c size or such. Anybody with tips on that let me know..

Keeping them constantly plugged in seems to me would use up
there number of charge cycles and shorten life to.

so, whats the best way to get the most out of rechargeable battery
packs?

And how can hybrid cars get 10 years out of a battery pack
when i am lucky to get 2 or 3 out of most of the packs i have?
I do see online how some of the early gen Prius packs are failing
much to the owners displeasure.

The Prius maintains its batteries at between 50-80% of full charge.

Any new battery or battery that's gone unused for at least 2 months
should be charged longer than normal, 24-36 hours, whether you use a
fast charger or trickle charger. The only exceptions are very
primitive chargers that end charging with just a simple bimetal
thermostat. Disconnect the battery within an hour after the
thermostat opens.

Try to let batteries cool down before recharging, but do not leave the
battery connected to the battery continuously, even if the charger is
designed to shut off or go into a maintenance mode. Also do not fully
discharge batteries regularly but only down to 1.1V per cell (13.2V,
in the case of a 14.4V battery). Deeper discharge is harmful. Also
check each cell occasionally for reverse polarity. If not corrected,
reverse polarity will lead to the affected cell becoming shorted and
the other cells overcharged. To correct reverse polarity, charge the
affected cell by directly connecting approximately 100mA DC to that
cell and only that cell for a few minutes, then recharge the battery
normally.

Drilling several tiny vent holes into the battery pack may help
cooling, top and bottom, but remove the cells first.

 

[krw]

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:21:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

Can't read much, eh?

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:3dqkm4pajgdf29e955v665uq7lh674i9gu@4ax.com...

On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:21:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

Can't read much, eh?

Guess not.

 

[krw]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:04:59 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:3dqkm4pajgdf29e955v665uq7lh674i9gu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:21:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

Can't read much, eh?

Guess not.

At least you're honest about your shortcommings.

 

[William Sommerwerck]

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:jkrkm49fr7h4k41o6qpmqjkk5glc2le4lg@4ax.com...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:04:59 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:3dqkm4pajgdf29e955v665uq7lh674i9gu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:21:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

Can't read much, eh?

Guess not.

At least you're honest about your shortcommings.

I was being sarcastic.

To compare a major distributor of name-brand electronic components that it
does not manufacture, with a maker of consumer gadgetry, is ludicrous.

The fact that both companies sell items for more than what it costs to make
or obtain them (which all companies have to do to stay in business) does not
bestow any form of equivalence on their businesses.

 

[krw]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:18:10 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:jkrkm49fr7h4k41o6qpmqjkk5glc2le4lg@4ax.com...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:04:59 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

"krw" <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:3dqkm4pajgdf29e955v665uq7lh674i9gu@4ax.com...
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:21:53 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

Digi Key is not RONCO.

Don't bet on it.

What a silly remark. Digi-Key is a major component supplier
that's been around about 20 years. They sell no consumer
products.

They'll sell whatever manufacturers have to sell, at 2-10x the
going price. Sounds a lot like Ronco to me, though their online
catalog is better.

This is foolishness. Digi-Key is a distributor, not a manufacturer.

Can't read much, eh?

Guess not.

At least you're honest about your shortcommings.

I was being sarcastic.

I wasn't. Your shorcommings aren't just in your shorts, evidently.

To compare a major distributor of name-brand electronic components that it
does not manufacture, with a maker of consumer gadgetry, is ludicrous.

You think Ron Popiel actually makes his gadgets?

The fact that both companies sell items for more than what it costs to make
or obtain them (which all companies have to do to stay in business) does not
bestow any form of equivalence on their businesses.

Both sell shit for *way* more than it's worth.