Laptop battery charging?...

[Martin Brown]

On 07/10/2020 19:30, Ricketty C wrote:

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 1:43:59 PM UTC-4, gray_wolf wrote:
On 07/10/2020 8:03 am, Chris wrote:
On 10/07/20 04:40, gray_wolf wrote:


Is leaving my new Dell laptop constantly in the charging mode,
even when not in use, a bad idea?



Don\'t know about Dell, but the older Panasonic Toughbooks here
have circuitry and software support to prevent damage if the
machine is plugged into the line all the time. That is, they
exp3ct users to do that.

These were not bought new either, too expensive, but made up from
various broken, spares examples...

Chris



Thanks for the reply. I kept my 5 yr old android on and charging
for several months. The battery became swollen so bad the back
would no longer close but it still works. Sister got me a new
Samsung which is a big improvement.

Swollen batteries are dangerous. Lithium batteries can catch fire
and a swollen battery is much more likely to have that happen.

I agree which is why I have a dead Apple iPad one out in the garden.

The charging would only have caused this if the internal charging
circuit was defective. Much more likely it was caused by the 5 year
age.

Age related but it had been looked after by one careful owner (not me).
I took it away from them during lockdown because I knew it was a
potential fire hazard. My wife\'s previous iPhone 5? had a serious
battery fault too with a free manufacturers replacement as a result.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Chris Jones]

On 07/10/2020 14:40, gray_wolf wrote:

On 06/10/2020 6:57 am, Chris Jones wrote:
On 06/10/2020 22:33, Dean Hoffman wrote:

            I recently bought a new MacBook Air.   There are all
sorts of tips about extending
the duration of a single charge.    Does it matter when I charge it
if I want to get the
battery\'s life to be the longest?  Should I charge it when the
battery is at 50%, 25%, or
maybe let it run down to shutdown?

Not sure about when to start charging it, but you should set it to
stop charging before it gets to maybe 80% (mine is set to stop at
60%), to prevent the cell voltage getting into the range that causes
degradation.

As far as I know the decision about when to start it charging is
mostly determined by how much charge you want to have available in the
event that you unexpectedly need to use it for a while without mains
power. I set mine to start charging at 50% and stop at 60%, but since
it is used on AC power it very rarely charges.

Letting it stay near completely empty might be a bad idea, since if
you forget about it or are unable to access it for a while, the
battery could get into deep discharge, in which case it is bricked as
the controller will refuse to charge it ever again for safety reasons,
or \"safety reasons\".

Is leaving my new Dell laptop constantly in the charging mode, even when
not in use, a bad idea?

Yes it is a bad idea. There is some setting in the BIOS of the some of
the recent Dells to change that so that it doesn\'t charge to 100% all
the time, but watch out. There is a setting something like \"Primarily AC
use\" that seems to not work properly, in that it still charges it to
100%. There are complaints in the forums that this seems inappropriate
and that you need to configure your own custom settings (which it lets
you do in the BIOS too).

 

[Chris Jones]

On 07/10/2020 23:53, legg wrote:

On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 21:49:02 -0500, Dean Hoffman <deanhofman@clod.com
wrote:

On 10/6/20 6:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

           I recently bought a new MacBook Air.   There are all sorts
of tips about extending
the duration of a single charge.    Does it matter when I charge it if I
want to get the
battery\'s life to be the longest?  Should I charge it when the battery
is at 50%, 25%, or
maybe let it run down to shutdown?

I did a little more research.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211094?cid=mc-ols-energy_saver-article_ht211094-macos_ui-04022020
The people at Apple added battery management to macOS Catalina 10.15.5
I didn\'t see anything in the articles that answered my question.

I forgot to say thanks the
first time around


It\'s often a mistake to let the software guys get involved
with battery management. It\'s less a mistake if the HW mfr
does it - they at least have some control over the battery
chemistry and vendor source being selected for use and a
familiarity with the application load.

Battery mfrs are the most logical people to turn to for this
type of information, but in a competative market, they can
be cagey about releasing information that is not filtered
through a sales network.

Unless you\'re in a position to build or program your own
charging system, all you can use this info for is to determine
if there\'s a suitable marriage between the battery and its
application.

Letting the end-user program charging and discharging limits
and profiles may make everybody feel better, but it won\'t
necessarily produce the longest battery service life.

On the other hand, it is optimistic to expect the company that designs
the charger but also sells the replacements for any failed batteries to
go out of their way to increase the battery life beyond what is
necessary to avoid failures during the warranty period. There is a
short-term financial incentive to allow the batteries to fail not long
after the end of the warranty, and a reputational incentive to make them
last a long time. Depending on the company\'s management style and the
ethics of the engineers, the results could vary.

 

[Ricketty C]

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 10:33:54 AM UTC-4, Chris Jones wrote:

On 07/10/2020 23:53, legg wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 21:49:02 -0500, Dean Hoffman <deanhofman@clod.com
wrote:

On 10/6/20 6:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

           I recently bought a new MacBook Air.   There are all sorts
of tips about extending
the duration of a single charge.    Does it matter when I charge it if I
want to get the
battery\'s life to be the longest?  Should I charge it when the battery
is at 50%, 25%, or
maybe let it run down to shutdown?

I did a little more research.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211094?cid=mc-ols-energy_saver-article_ht211094-macos_ui-04022020
The people at Apple added battery management to macOS Catalina 10.15.5
I didn\'t see anything in the articles that answered my question.

I forgot to say thanks the
first time around


It\'s often a mistake to let the software guys get involved
with battery management. It\'s less a mistake if the HW mfr
does it - they at least have some control over the battery
chemistry and vendor source being selected for use and a
familiarity with the application load.

Battery mfrs are the most logical people to turn to for this
type of information, but in a competative market, they can
be cagey about releasing information that is not filtered
through a sales network.

Unless you\'re in a position to build or program your own
charging system, all you can use this info for is to determine
if there\'s a suitable marriage between the battery and its
application.

Letting the end-user program charging and discharging limits
and profiles may make everybody feel better, but it won\'t
necessarily produce the longest battery service life.

On the other hand, it is optimistic to expect the company that designs
the charger but also sells the replacements for any failed batteries to
go out of their way to increase the battery life beyond what is
necessary to avoid failures during the warranty period. There is a
short-term financial incentive to allow the batteries to fail not long
after the end of the warranty, and a reputational incentive to make them
last a long time. Depending on the company\'s management style and the
ethics of the engineers, the results could vary.

There is also the issue of keeping the battery charged so the user gets maximum battery time when not plugged in. Combine that with the desire to rate the batteries as high as possible for advertising purposes and you get batteries that are more sensitive to being fully (over) charged on a regular basis.

My Lenovo would warn me periodically that I should not leave the battery on full charge as if draining it enough to turn off the warning would do anything to prolong the battery life. The real problem is putting the full charge on in the first place when it is not needed. The really hard part is knowing when the 100% charge will be needed and making sure the battery has a full charge at that time.

Bottom line is that batteries suck.

--

Rick C.

++ Get 1,500 miles of free Supercharging
++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

 

[Lasse Langwadt Christensen]

torsdag den 8. oktober 2020 kl. 20.01.33 UTC+2 skrev Ricketty C:

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 10:33:54 AM UTC-4, Chris Jones wrote:
On 07/10/2020 23:53, legg wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 21:49:02 -0500, Dean Hoffman <deanhofman@clod.com
wrote:

On 10/6/20 6:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

           I recently bought a new MacBook Air.   There are all sorts
of tips about extending
the duration of a single charge.    Does it matter when I charge it if I
want to get the
battery\'s life to be the longest?  Should I charge it when the battery
is at 50%, 25%, or
maybe let it run down to shutdown?

I did a little more research.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211094?cid=mc-ols-energy_saver-article_ht211094-macos_ui-04022020
The people at Apple added battery management to macOS Catalina 10.15.5
I didn\'t see anything in the articles that answered my question.

I forgot to say thanks the
first time around


It\'s often a mistake to let the software guys get involved
with battery management. It\'s less a mistake if the HW mfr
does it - they at least have some control over the battery
chemistry and vendor source being selected for use and a
familiarity with the application load.

Battery mfrs are the most logical people to turn to for this
type of information, but in a competative market, they can
be cagey about releasing information that is not filtered
through a sales network.

Unless you\'re in a position to build or program your own
charging system, all you can use this info for is to determine
if there\'s a suitable marriage between the battery and its
application.

Letting the end-user program charging and discharging limits
and profiles may make everybody feel better, but it won\'t
necessarily produce the longest battery service life.

On the other hand, it is optimistic to expect the company that designs
the charger but also sells the replacements for any failed batteries to
go out of their way to increase the battery life beyond what is
necessary to avoid failures during the warranty period. There is a
short-term financial incentive to allow the batteries to fail not long
after the end of the warranty, and a reputational incentive to make them
last a long time. Depending on the company\'s management style and the
ethics of the engineers, the results could vary.

There is also the issue of keeping the battery charged so the user gets maximum battery time when not plugged in. Combine that with the desire to rate the batteries as high as possible for advertising purposes and you get batteries that are more sensitive to being fully (over) charged on a regular basis.

My Lenovo would warn me periodically that I should not leave the battery on full charge as if draining it enough to turn off the warning would do anything to prolong the battery life. The real problem is putting the full charge on in the first place when it is not needed. The really hard part is knowing when the 100% charge will be needed and making sure the battery has a full charge at that time.

I think Apple has or tried some learning algorithm that attempted to predict when you needed the full change, like in the morning when leaving for work,
but not when you plug it in coming home and not leaving until next morning

> Bottom line is that batteries suck.

they suck a lot less than they used to

 

[Dean Hoffman]

On 10/6/20 6:33 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

           I recently bought a new MacBook Air.   There are all sorts
of tips about extending
the duration of a single charge.    Does it matter when I charge it if I
want to get the
battery\'s life to be the longest?  Should I charge it when the battery
is at 50%, 25%, or
maybe let it run down to shutdown?

I was hoping to find some sort of an external charge regulator
to maybe keep the charge of my MacBook somewhere in the middle.
Let\'s say 25 to 75% charged. No luck but maybe it wasn\'t such a good
idea anyhow.
I stumbled across an article about the MacBook Pros. Plug the chargers
into the right side if there are ports on that side. They can get hot
if the charger
is plugged into the left side. It\'s something about kernels, whatever
those are.
<https://www.tomsguide.com/news/macbook-pro-charging-bug-kernel_task>