LA Times Boiling Point...

[whit3rd]

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 2:10:35 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

> You are terrified of everything.

Larkin Syndrome: perceiving fear, hysteria, panic in every situation

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the
LIA.

Past cannot be blindly extrapolated to the future; in the past, we had lots more
permafrost, glaciers, and ice cap, and the predicted loss of those did NOT
come from extrapolation, but from detailed modeling indicating climate change.
Extrapolation is a perilous enterprise, and not suitable for serious planning.

The danger to coastal cities is mostly from subsidence, from pumping
out groundwater.

Once that was true; you cannot simply extrapolate from that if you want to
do a good predictive job. \"Mostly\" serves the function, here, of a weasel word.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political
theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and
Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.
You are terrified of everything.

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.
The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.

I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.
The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.
Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.
Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100. At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/climate-issues/ocean-impacts

The impact dwarfs the loss of ratty, polluting, overcrowded cities/ disease distribution centers on the coast.

The \"linear\" increase in sea level we\'ve seen has been pretty much the expansion of our sea water as it has got warmer due to the global warming we\'ve seen so far.

The sea level rise we get warned about is the six metres of sea level rise tied up in the Greenland ice sheet and the extra three metres or so in the West Antarctic ice sheet. We get to see it when the ice sheets slide off into the ocean (which is the sort of thing that happened at the end of the last ice age, or a rather larger scale)
The danger to coastal cities is mostly from subsidence, from pumping out groundwater.
That\'s the only danger that John Larkin is aware of. He isn\'t aware of much, and is blind to the depths of his own ignorance.
Of course the other danger is building expensive structures with sea views, on sand, in hurricane zones.
I live in a expensive structure with an extensive view of Sydney Harbour. It\'s on the top of a hill, and ten metres of sea level rise wouldn\'t threaten the cars parked in the basement, though it would flood one of the places where we\'ve bought gasoline, not to mention the Opera house (which is part of the view).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 06:56:00 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political
theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and
Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.
You are terrified of everything.

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.
The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.

I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.
The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.
Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.
Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100.

Everything alive is on the brink of extinction and always has been.


>At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"

That\'s silly. Coral reefs happen at all longitudes and a wide range of
latitudes. They are densest around the equator so seem to like warm
water. If the planet is indeed warming much and corals indeed die when
the temp increases a little (both doubtful) they will just spread
north and south a little.

The coral bleaching/dying thing may be an illusion, observation of a
natural life cycle. Overfishing appears to be bad for reefs too.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 10:46:54 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 06:56:00 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political
theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and
Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.
You are terrified of everything.

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.
The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.

I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.
The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.
Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.
Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100.

Everything alive is on the brink of extinction and always has been.

Keyword there is brink. The people who actually collect and understand the data say we\'re already into a mass extinction, that\'s not a brink.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-sixth-mass-extinction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn

At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"
That\'s silly. Coral reefs happen at all longitudes and a wide range of
latitudes. They are densest around the equator so seem to like warm
water. If the planet is indeed warming much and corals indeed die when
the temp increases a little (both doubtful) they will just spread
north and south a little.

The coral bleaching/dying thing may be an illusion, observation of a
natural life cycle. Overfishing appears to be bad for reefs too.

Bet you never even heard of the \"aragonite saturation level.\"

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-ocean-acidity

There are other aspects of the problem:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing. These improvements were evident not only in healthy people but also in those with a diagnosis of depression, the most common mental illness across the world. These findings have potential implications for both environmental and wildlife protection and mental healthcare policies. Specific measures, aimed at preserving and increasing everyday encounters with birdlife in urban areas, should be implemented.\"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-20207-6

Mankind is taking too much for granted, the consequences will be severe.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 10:46:54 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 06:56:00 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political
theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and
Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.
You are terrified of everything.

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.
The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.

I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.
The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.
Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.
Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100.

Everything alive is on the brink of extinction and always has been.

Keyword there is brink. The people who actually collect and understand the data say we\'re already into a mass extinction, that\'s not a brink.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/10/earths-sixth-mass-extinction-event-already-underway-scientists-warn


At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"
That\'s silly. Coral reefs happen at all longitudes and a wide range of
latitudes. They are densest around the equator so seem to like warm
water. If the planet is indeed warming much and corals indeed die when
the temp increases a little (both doubtful) they will just spread
north and south a little.

The coral bleaching/dying thing may be an illusion, observation of a
natural life cycle. Overfishing appears to be bad for reefs too.

Bet you never even heard of the \"aragonite saturation level.\"

https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-ocean-acidity

There are other aspects of the problem:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing.

That refers to fried chicken.

 

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:29:00 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing.

That refers to fried chicken.

It more likely is a consequence of hunter-gatherer instincts. We are curious, and explore, because
that\'s behavior that finds the best roots, berries, and fauna-based foods. Suppressing natural
variation, as an inner city environment does, causes us pain, even though we CAN get some KFC.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:29:00 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing.

That refers to fried chicken.

It more likely is a consequence of hunter-gatherer instincts. We are curious, and explore, because
that\'s behavior that finds the best roots, berries, and fauna-based foods. Suppressing natural
variation, as an inner city environment does, causes us pain, even though we CAN get some KFC.

We have been conducting bird experiments on our kitchen deck. We get
crows, ravens, scrub jays, finches, junkos, something else I can\'t
name. The result of extensive research shows that they prefer fritos
to any other snack. They do like beer nuts too.

We have hummingbirds, owls, red-tailed hawks, seagulls, and noisy
flocks of wild parrots too, but they don\'t come down to snack.

It\'s impressive how many birds adapt to a city.

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 2:24:05 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:29:00 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing.

That refers to fried chicken.

It more likely is a consequence of hunter-gatherer instincts. We are curious, and explore, because
that\'s behavior that finds the best roots, berries, and fauna-based foods. Suppressing natural
variation, as an inner city environment does, causes us pain, even though we CAN get some KFC.
We have been conducting bird experiments on our kitchen deck. We get
crows, ravens, scrub jays, finches, junkos, something else I can\'t
name. The result of extensive research shows that they prefer fritos
to any other snack. They do like beer nuts too.

By junco you mean this?

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Dark-eyed_Junco/overview

They live inside the arctic circle during warmer months, surprising they would be in SF ever.

I don\'t care much for them showing up because they go where the cold air takes them and it means one of those vortex things is coming. It\'s only when they leave am I sure the weather will be consistently warmer from then on out.

Birds love energy foods full of fats, which would be your fritos, especially when it\'s cold out and they race up their metabolism to stay warm- or more accurately avoid hypothermia. Fritos should be mostly corn meal and vegetable oil which is good for them. Nuts of any kind are an ideal bird food too. You want to avoid giving them cheap non-nutritious food like white bread.. All that does is fill up their crop with valueless junk so they don\'t have any room left for the natural food they should be eating. BTW- it would cheaper to buy a bag of peanut \"hearts\" than beer snacks- usually available anywhere bird seed is sold.

This is a good brand and price:

https://www.amazon.com/Lyric-Fruit-High-Energy-Wild/dp/B002VDV84G/?th=1

The negative reviews are a bunch of product assassination and untrue. Lyric is one of the better brands out there.

https://www.lyricbirdfood.com/about-lyric/our-story/

We have hummingbirds, owls, red-tailed hawks, seagulls, and noisy
flocks of wild parrots too, but they don\'t come down to snack.

It\'s impressive how many birds adapt to a city.

 

[John Larkin]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 12:50:25 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 2:24:05 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 09:07:22 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com
wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:29:00 AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

\"Everyday encounters with birdlife were associated with time-lasting improvements in mental wellbeing.

That refers to fried chicken.

It more likely is a consequence of hunter-gatherer instincts. We are curious, and explore, because
that\'s behavior that finds the best roots, berries, and fauna-based foods. Suppressing natural
variation, as an inner city environment does, causes us pain, even though we CAN get some KFC.
We have been conducting bird experiments on our kitchen deck. We get
crows, ravens, scrub jays, finches, junkos, something else I can\'t
name. The result of extensive research shows that they prefer fritos
to any other snack. They do like beer nuts too.

By junco you mean this?

https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Dark-eyed_Junco/overview

They live inside the arctic circle during warmer months, surprising they would be in SF ever.

I don\'t care much for them showing up because they go where the cold air takes them and it means one of those vortex things is coming. It\'s only when they leave am I sure the weather will be consistently warmer from then on out.

Birds love energy foods full of fats, which would be your fritos, especially when it\'s cold out and they race up their metabolism to stay warm- or more accurately avoid hypothermia. Fritos should be mostly corn meal and vegetable oil which is good for them.

Fritos are made of corn, corn oil, and salt. Great stuff. Lots of
other bird snacks get rancid, but not fritos.


>Nuts of any kind are an ideal bird food too. You want to avoid giving them cheap non-nutritious food like white bread. All that does is fill up their crop with valueless junk so they don\'t have any room left for the natural food they should be eating. BTW- it would cheaper to buy a bag of peanut \"hearts\" than beer snacks- usually available anywhere bird seed is sold.

Mo is a great fan (dare I say addict?) of beer nuts, so I buy them in
quantity from Amazon.

This is a good brand and price:

https://www.amazon.com/Lyric-Fruit-High-Energy-Wild/dp/B002VDV84G/?th=1

The negative reviews are a bunch of product assassination and untrue. Lyric is one of the better brands out there.

https://www.lyricbirdfood.com/about-lyric/our-story/



We have hummingbirds, owls, red-tailed hawks, seagulls, and noisy
flocks of wild parrots too, but they don\'t come down to snack.

It\'s impressive how many birds adapt to a city.

Two streets stepped below us are Surrey and Sussex, and the hawks
cruise the updrafts without much flapping their wings. Every once in a
while the jays will team up and attach a hawk, aerial dogfight. The
jays will chase anything away from the fritos, giant ravens and
squirrels and everything.

 

[Anthony William Sloman]

On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 12:56:04 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.

You are terrified of everything.

John Larkin claims not to feel fear, and imagines this to be a virtue. He confuses rational anxieties with panic attacks, becasuse he hasn\'t experienced either.\\

Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.

The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.
I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.

The Gulf Stream does flow through the Atlantic Ocean. The basic physics of ocean circulation is complex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_multidecadal_oscillation

The first paper on that only got published in1994. The Argo buoys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(oceanography)

are more recent, but there are only 4000 of them, and there is a lot of ocean to explore. We know about the surface currents like the Gulf Stream, but for the submerged return currents we need the Argo program.


> The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.

Ho hum.

Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.

They aren\'t beyond knowjedge, but you do have to collect a lot of information before you can hope to make sense of what\'s going on, and that can take a while.

Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100. At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/climate-issues/ocean-impacts

The impact dwarfs the loss of ratty, polluting, overcrowded cities/ disease distribution centers on the coast.

The \"linear\" increase in sea level we\'ve seen has been pretty much the expansion of our sea water as it has got warmer due to the global warming we\'ve seen so far.

The sea level rise we get warned about is the six metres of sea level rise tied up in the Greenland ice sheet and the extra three metres or so in the West Antarctic ice sheet. We get to see it when the ice sheets slide off into the ocean (which is the sort of thing that happened at the end of the last ice age, or a rather larger scale).

The danger to coastal cities is mostly from subsidence, from pumping out groundwater.

That\'s the only danger that John Larkin is aware of. He isn\'t aware of much, and is blind to the depths of his own ignorance.

Of course the other danger is building expensive structures with sea views, on sand, in hurricane zones.

I live in a expensive structure with an extensive view of Sydney Harbour. It\'s on the top of a hill, and ten metres of sea level rise wouldn\'t threaten the cars parked in the basement, though it would flood one of the places where we\'ve bought gasoline, not to mention the Opera house (which is part of the view).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

 

[bitrex]

On 10/28/2022 1:22 AM, Flyguy wrote:

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 7:03:39 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lots of good climate related news in this newsletter. The public relations campaign against gas appliances is gathering momentum. Hard to believe Southern California Gas is so stupid they store their NG in an abandoned oil reservoir and didn\'t think there might be contamination issues.

\"In May, the Los Angeles City Council voted to ban most gas appliances in new construction to mitigate global warming, joining cities including New York, San Francisco and Seattle.\"

Lots of other news about some really expensive adaptation to climate and energy pressures. This is the price they pay for waiting until the last minute to do something they saw coming 30 years ago.
and hasn\'t happened.
Apparently you didn\'t get the memo. The whole point of this exercise is to prevent it from happening. All indications are that it\'s rapidly unfolding right now.

Your BIGGEST nat gas appliance is your own EV.

My local public works dept is a solar-powered facility, with a number of
bays for me to use at a very attractive rate

 

[bitrex]

On 10/28/2022 12:42 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

On 2022-10-28 13:46, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

Lots of good climate related news in this newsletter. The public
relations campaign against gas appliances is gathering momentum.
Hard to believe Southern California Gas is so stupid they store
their NG in an abandoned oil reservoir and didn\'t think there might
be contamination issues.

\"In May, the Los Angeles City Council voted to ban most gas
appliances in new construction to mitigate global warming, joining
cities including New York, San Francisco and Seattle.\"

Lots of other news about some really expensive adaptation to
climate and energy pressures. This is the price they pay for
waiting until the last minute to do something they saw coming 30
years ago.
and hasn\'t happened.

Apparently you didn\'t get the memo. The whole point of this exercise
is to prevent it from happening. All indications are that it\'s
rapidly unfolding right now.

and has been for 50 years. Manhattan is under water, isn\'t it?

Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political
theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and
Africa are doing.

That\'s not the point. It creates turmoil and upheaval from which fat
cats can profit to get fatter still.

Jeroen Belleman

Speaking of cats the \"great\" thing about America is that if you\'re old,
and you\'re white, you can rant on about, y\'know, the fuckin\' cat-people
and the kitty litter boxes and shit you think is going on in schools in
your leaded-gasoline-addled boomer-brain, and still have an excellent
chance of getting at least 40% of the popular vote:

<https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/29/politics/kfile-republican-nominee-new-hampshire>

 

[Fred Bloggs]

On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 9:32:51 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 12:56:04 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 9:13:06 PM UTC-4, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 8:10:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2022 07:35:27 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 28, 2022 at 7:46:49 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 19:03:34 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 27, 2022 at 4:55:36 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2022 08:45:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs..fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
Anything any city or state does to reduce CO2 \"pollution\" is political theatre, an insignificant rounding error of what China and India and Africa are doing.

China is building out all the coal plants in Africa.

Now that even those places are realizing the dangers of instability arising from starvation and an uninhabitable environment, things like getting washed away by flooding and suffocating in extreme heat, they\'re making plans for radical changes to their energy infrastructure.

You are terrified of everything.
John Larkin claims not to feel fear, and imagines this to be a virtue. He confuses rational anxieties with panic attacks, becasuse he hasn\'t experienced either.\\
Sea level has increased linearly since about 1870, at the end of the LIA.

The \"little ice age\" was rather earlier than than, and pretty much confined to the area around the Atlantic ocean.
I bet it wasn\'t. The LIA was caused by the slowing if not complete cessation of a major warming ocean current, the Gulf Stream. The abrupt addition of large amounts of fresh water at the terminus of the current puts the brakes on it, and that\'s just the basic physics of ocean circulation, it\'s not some guess.
The Gulf Stream does flow through the Atlantic Ocean. The basic physics of ocean circulation is complex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_multidecadal_oscillation

The first paper on that only got published in1994. The Argo buoys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(oceanography)

are more recent, but there are only 4000 of them, and there is a lot of ocean to explore. We know about the surface currents like the Gulf Stream, but for the submerged return currents we need the Argo program.
The most serious consequence this kind of abrupt reconfiguration has is the damaging effects on marine life. Quite a bit of knowledge on the subject has been accumulated, and one very important takeaway from what we do know is how serious a disruption can be and how little mankind knows about it.. The ocean currents not only distribute warmth, they also distribute nutrients, and they\'re used by many migrating species ( fish and reptiles, not just birds, and probably insects) for navigation, forming an ingredient critical to the survival of many species.
Ho hum.
Many species are sensitive to very minute environmental changes. The state of Alaska recently took the unprecedented action of waving off the mis-advice of federal environmental authority and canceling the fishing of King crabs and Snow crabs because of record low populations the wildlife biologists could only guess resulted from warmer waters. This is just one of numerous examples.
Another consequence related to sea level rise is the abrupt flooding of wetlands at a rate too fast for adaptation resulting in mass die-offs. The consequences of that kind of thing are beyond knowing and quantifying.
They aren\'t beyond knowjedge, but you do have to collect a lot of information before you can hope to make sense of what\'s going on, and that can take a while.

They are in effect beyond knowledge. I\'ve read more than few detailed descriptions of the wildlife biologists of their various projects and just exactly what they had to go through to reach science based conclusions. It takes a long time, years, and requires a lot of creativity and field work. And that\'s just for a smidgeon of understanding. For something comprehensive to fully evaluate substantially massive wetland loss, everything they need to know is just inaccessible. What they do know will happen, as has been happening, the flora drown in deeper waters, freshwater gets contaminated with salt and kills a lot of creatures- and the creatures who feed off those creatures, contaminated runoff from land is no longer filtered before it hits the ocean, arable land loss in low lying areas like India will have a ginormous impact on food supplies, fisheries will decline, - this list could get long. Just having a real rough idea of something, like your case, is insufficient to put mitigation into practice.

Biodiversity is more than just a nice-to-have and the subject of National Geographic Specials, it\'s absolutely essential to all life on Earth. By the time mankind feels it, it will be too late, for mankind.

\"Latest estimates from the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization warn that more than half of the world’s marine species may stand on the brink of extinction by 2100. At a 1.1°C increase in temperature today, an estimated 60 percent of the world\'s marine ecosystems have already been degraded or are being used unsustainably. A warming of 1.5°C threatens to destroy 70 to 90 percent of coral reefs, and a 2°C increase means a nearly 100 percent loss - a point of no return.\"

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/science/climate-issues/ocean-impacts

The impact dwarfs the loss of ratty, polluting, overcrowded cities/ disease distribution centers on the coast.

The \"linear\" increase in sea level we\'ve seen has been pretty much the expansion of our sea water as it has got warmer due to the global warming we\'ve seen so far.

The sea level rise we get warned about is the six metres of sea level rise tied up in the Greenland ice sheet and the extra three metres or so in the West Antarctic ice sheet. We get to see it when the ice sheets slide off into the ocean (which is the sort of thing that happened at the end of the last ice age, or a rather larger scale).

The danger to coastal cities is mostly from subsidence, from pumping out groundwater.

That\'s the only danger that John Larkin is aware of. He isn\'t aware of much, and is blind to the depths of his own ignorance.

Of course the other danger is building expensive structures with sea views, on sand, in hurricane zones.

I live in a expensive structure with an extensive view of Sydney Harbour. It\'s on the top of a hill, and ten metres of sea level rise wouldn\'t threaten the cars parked in the basement, though it would flood one of the places where we\'ve bought gasoline, not to mention the Opera house (which is part of the view).

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney