Kicking The Bucket The Hard Way--

[Phil Allison]

"Geoff"

This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm

** Hate to be the one that breaks the news - but that device is NOT
digital.

The technique used is called " delta modulation " and is strictly an
analogue method - high audio quality is barely even possible and needs a
clock frequency in the MHz range.

There is NO conversion of a changing quantity to a binary number stream as
is the case with all modern digital audio systems.

Compared to the BBD chip the OP is after - that is no practical
alternative whatsoever.


..... Phil

 

[Phil Allison]

"Ron Hubbard"

LOL. Going rate? For the MN3007 I suppose it's a seller's market. Some
companies (here in the US) have been known to sell them for $1.95
which by itself ain't bad-- but then they have a $250 minimum order
that *is* bad. Some companies in the UK sell them for $9.95 each
(British equivalent); and on eBay they can be anything from $0.99
cents each up--- not including shipping charges.

** Then fucking buy one.


But since this IC has a bad reputation for noise,

** That is absolute BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!


there are newer and better ICs that do the same thing,

** Really ? Post the numbers.


FFS - Ron,

stop your pathetic damn TROLLING and fucking piss off !!



...... Phil

 

[Bob Masta]

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 10:47:32 -0700, Tim Wescott
<tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote:

On 07/10/2011 09:21 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:

There's a _reason_ that analog delay lines went obsolete.

A better way to skin the cat is to put the whole chorus signal
processing chain into digital. This may need a modest DSP, but your
external circuitry will be at a minimum.

But there's a reason why digital designs don't thrill me: I like
simplistic designs I can knock together on a piece of perf-board some
evening--- not some ultra-sophiticate digital mess that'll take a
complicated PCB that I would probably have to have somebody make for
me plus some program that'll have to be entered into a chip . This is
a simple project with emphasis on the word "simple." Sound quality may
never be great, but this isn;t a high-fidelity project to begin with.
And excpt for that damn MN3007 IC, eveything else can be gotten from
Mouser for five bucks or less-- what more can you ask for?

Are you saying you're looking for an analog delay line? Why not make one,
with a handful of ferrite beads, some magnet wire, and a few capacitors?

Or a spring, a speaker coil, and a microphone. _That_ should be a
project and a half!

Although I realize the above comments are all in fun, please
note that the OP wants to build a chorus unit. The
"conventional" way to do that is with a *variable* delay
line, where the delay is modulated (at several Hz). That
would be tough to do with the above methods, which are
*fixed* delay lines (though they make dandy reverb units).

The phaser/flanger approach I mentioned in my prior post
skips the actual delay line and just uses the fact that when
you combine multiple versions of an original, each version
having a different (and variable) delay (ie, voices or
instruments trying to track each other but not quite making
it), what you hear sounds a lot like the original with a
bunch of roving peaks and dips. So it just creates the
peaks and dips, sans delay.

Though I suppose you could use the same technique to create
a real variable delay, by cascading a bunch of Bessel LP
stages instead of all-pass stages, I've never heard of
anyone doing that. I suspect you get a lot less "effect"
bang for the buck.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v6.02
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
Science with your sound card!

 

[Ron Hubbard]

On Jul 12, 4:49 am, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Ron Hubbard"

LOL. Going rate? For the MN3007 I suppose it's a seller's market. Some
companies (here in the US)  have been known to sell them for $1.95
which by itself ain't bad-- but then they have a $250 minimum order
that *is* bad. Some companies in the UK sell them for $9.95 each
(British equivalent); and on eBay they can be anything from $0.99
cents each up--- not including shipping charges.

** Then fucking buy one.

But since this IC has a bad reputation for noise,

** That is absolute BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!

there are newer and better ICs that do the same thing,

Digital signal processiing moron.

Ron

 

[Phil Allison]

"Ron Hubbard"
"Phil Allison"

LOL. Going rate? For the MN3007 I suppose it's a seller's market. Some
companies (here in the US) have been known to sell them for $1.95
which by itself ain't bad-- but then they have a $250 minimum order
that *is* bad. Some companies in the UK sell them for $9.95 each
(British equivalent); and on eBay they can be anything from $0.99
cents each up--- not including shipping charges.

** Then fucking buy one.

But since this IC has a bad reputation for noise,

** That is absolute BOLLOCKS !!!!!!!!!

there are newer and better ICs that do the same thing,

Digital signal processiing moron.

** Then go buy one of them.

You fucking teenth wiit.


..... Phil

 

[Bob Masta]

On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:46:37 +1000, "Phil Allison"
<phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:

"Geoff"

This is how simple a digital delay can be. Probably better
fidelity than BBD. Cheap common chips though higher parts
count than BBD design. No uP so no software.

http://www.armory.com/~rstevew/Public/SoundSynth/Reverb/ddl.htm


** Hate to be the one that breaks the news - but that device is NOT
digital.

The technique used is called " delta modulation " and is strictly an
analogue method - high audio quality is barely even possible and needs a
clock frequency in the MHz range.

There is NO conversion of a changing quantity to a binary number stream as
is the case with all modern digital audio systems.

Well, it's certainly "digital" (data stream is all 1s and
0s), just not the conventional Pulse Code Modulation (PCM)
that produces a binary number stream.

The given circuit is a crude version of the Sigma-Delta
technique (formerly known as Delta-Sigma!) which is used in
all modern digital audio systems. The main difference for
audio quality has to do with the sophistication of the
feedback from the encoder output back to the input. Modern
converters do indeed operate in the MHz range, then
down-convert to "normal" audio sample rates when they
convert to PCM.

Compared to the BBD chip the OP is after - that is no practical
alternative whatsoever.

Agreed. In the "olden days" I built a simple converter like
this (but a tad more sophisticated) for the purpose of
making a reverb. But without a fancy feedback scheme (or a
ridiculous clock rate) you get all sorts of whistles and
"birdies". As I recall, these sounded like undersampling
aliases (which I guess they really were) of a PCM audio
without the anti-alias filters ... *far* more annoying than
the BBD noise floor.

Best regards,


Bob Masta

DAQARTA v6.02
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter
Frequency Counter, FREE Signal Generator
Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI
Science with your sound card!

 

[Phil Allison]

"Bob Masta"

Well, it's certainly "digital" (data stream is all 1s and
0s),

** So is turning a light switch on and off.

Compared to the BBD chip the OP is after - that is no practical
alternative whatsoever.

Agreed. In the "olden days" I built a simple converter like
this (but a tad more sophisticated) for the purpose of
making a reverb. But without a fancy feedback scheme (or a
ridiculous clock rate) you get all sorts of whistles and
"birdies". As I recall, these sounded like undersampling
aliases (which I guess they really were) of a PCM audio
without the anti-alias filters ... *far* more annoying than
the BBD noise floor.

** Precisely.

The "slew rate " issues are HORRENDOUS.

Delta modulation has no place in music quality audio.




..... Phil

 

[amdx]

On 7/9/2011 12:43 AM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?
Thanks.

Ron


____________
"In the beginning was the rhythm, but I had forgotten and I was
waiting or the word."

-- Ray Manzarek (The Golden Scarab) --

My first hit
http://www.bdent.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Mn3007&gclid=CPDk6-_c_qkCFQet7Qodt2p80A
$16.45 I don't see a minimum.

 

[Ron Hubbard]

On Jul 13, 9:24 am, amdx <a...@knology.net> wrote:

On 7/9/2011 12:43 AM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

I want to make a chorus unit for my electric guitar and I need a
Panasonic MN3007 IC but the one place that I found that carries this
chip requires a minimum order of $250. Does anyone know of a supplier
for this delay chip who sells it in reasonable [small] quantities?
Thanks.

Ron

____________
"In the beginning was the rhythm, but I had forgotten and I was
waiting or the word."

--  Ray Manzarek (The Golden Scarab) --

My first hithttp://www.bdent.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Mn3007&gclid=CPDk6-_c_q...
$16.45 I don't see a minimum.

Thanks, I'll look it into it.

Ron